Failed a Deild? Slip into a Wild! - Please critique

**ezzolucid** · 08-31-2015 07:07 PM

Hi, i have been trying Michael radugas indirect technique which is basically a Deild (from non lucid dreams) Although one needs to remain still upon awakenings for this to be successful, many times movement will occur and the deild will not work

However, if the deild has failed and a couple of minutes have passed then the book recommends falling back to sleep and trying again on the next awakening

The question i have is this: if the deild fails then would it not be a great idea to then perform a 'traditional' wild technique. After a failed deild, i would still be close to rem, quite tired and so it would seem a waste to go to sleep without attempting a wild or a ssild (or am i missing something?)

So it would go like this. Bed at 12pm. Natural awakening about 4am, get up for 10 mins then sleep with the intention of performing a deild on the next awakening, wake up some time later, perform deild (it fails) so then try a wild instead (that also fails as i fall asleep) so then the next awakening trying to deild again and it that fails then trying to wild etc etc

This is what i am trying, is there some bad logic in here that ive missed or is this multiple techniques during awakenings a good idea?

many thanks everyone
Ezzo

**Archvenom** · 08-31-2015 08:35 PM

Hi Ezzo
The routine you describe is very similar to what I've been doing for the past 5 months after reading The Phase. This routine seems to work best for me after a couple years of experimentation.
Good luck I hope it works for you!

**Sageous** · 08-31-2015 09:17 PM

That sounds like a very good plan, Ezzo. I'm not seeing any bad logic and, since DEILD is a form of WILD anyway, those multiple techniques have a tendency to work nicely together.

Good luck!

**Goldenspark** · 09-01-2015 07:18 AM

Hey Ezzo, I guess we are all different, but I have always struggled to make the technique you describe work. My theory as to why is that my natural awakening at the end of a sleep cycle is at the end of the period of REM, and the reason for waking is because my brain chemistry has shifted into that waking mode, and getting back to REM is almost impossible. On my few successful WILD attempts from that position, I have to wait about an hour for the next REM period to come round before it works.
It seems I have consistent 90 minute sleep cycles with up to 1/2 hour REM at the end of each, followed by an awakening.
I do accept that it's possible my expectation of this is affecting the timings, I.e. My theory is coming true because I believe it.....
Maybe your idea will work, but like me you may have to attempt the WILD for about an hour for it to work.

**ezzolucid** · 09-01-2015 10:49 AM

Hi guys, thanks for all the replys. I wake up naturally after about 4 hours each night and so I assume that i have completed 3 sleep cycles lasting about 1 hour and 10 mins each. As this wbtb is NOT the time to wild as I simply am creating an intention to fall back asleep and then perform a deild on the next awakening. As the wbtb was after 4 hours then the next awakening is going to be about 1 hour later which is bang in the middle of the rem.

Archvenom - can you give me a run down of your technique and do you also try to wild after a failed ' indirect technique' cycle. How many hours into sleep do you wbtb for this?

Sageous: Always great to get advice from a highly experienced practitioner so thank you.

Goldenspark: When you wake up after REM sleep there is still a window of opportunity to slip into lucidity as the body is still in REM mode even though the mind has awoken, the key is to not move on awakening. Have you read 'The Phase'? The book is amazing and the author has personally taught 1000's of people easy lucid induction with his ' indirect methods. The book is also free

**Goldenspark** · 09-02-2015 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by ezzolucid

Goldenspark: When you wake up after REM sleep there is still a window of opportunity to slip into lucidity as the body is still in REM mode even though the mind has awoken, the key is to not move on awakening. Have you read 'The Phase'? The book is amazing and the author has personally taught 1000's of people easy lucid induction with his ' indirect methods. The book is also free

I watched the phase video. Very interesting! I get your point about not moving and going back into the dream. I am just starting to try that one. I do find it incredibly difficult to stay still just after I wake. I seem to always stretch and that kills the effect.
I do like that idea of moving your dream body and then rolling out the body completely. I have experienced a partial effect a bit like that a few times before, so in Ken to try that over the coming nights.

**Zangetsu** · 09-07-2015 04:25 AM

I used the techniques from The Phase to get lucid my first time. Something about his techniques really seemed to work for me. I guess because he gives you an algorithm to perform with lots of contingencies and that's totally how my brain works. I'm interested in hearing about your future results from mixing WILD into the attempts. I think I'm going to start trying this too and see how it works. I just gotta remember to actually fall asleep and not put too much emphasis on trying to WILD or I'll be awake forever lol.

**ezzolucid** · 09-07-2015 07:49 PM

I am currently attempting mixing the indirect techniques with SSILD instead of WILD, that way there is no staying awake for ages trying to Wild. I wbtb, then SSILD, then whenever i wake after that point i attemp the indirect techniques. Both SSILD and Michael Radugas ' indirect techniques' are touted as the most efficient highly reliable techniques for beginners and so this is where i am starting my journey

Will stick to it for at least 2 months and post results, good luck

Ezzo

**Zangetsu** · 09-11-2015 12:30 AM

I've been trying to get back into Raduga's indirect methods the last few nights. It's been several months since I thought about lucid dreaming though so it's going kinda slow. I did notice that trying to do these 2 techs in one night is just too much for me to focus on right now. I'm going to try a few weeks of the indirect tech only and if that goes well I'll gradually start adding contingencies to the mix like WILD, SSILD.

I've noticed that if I split my focus between too many new dreaming habits at once, I don't end up focusing enough on any of them. This leads to insomnia, and usually none of my intentions set very well in my subconscious so no LD thoughts during my dreams at all.

It might just be my inability to multitask well, but I thought I'd throw this out here for anyone planning on trying multiple techs at once. I'd suggest getting in the habit of doing one first and then gradually add more. At least that's what I plan on doing.

**DukeDreamWalker** · 09-13-2015 05:26 AM

Just a thought… I have found WBTB to be most effective if I am up at least a half an hour focusing on whatever technic I plan to use.

**Archvenom** · 09-14-2015 07:10 AM

Basically I go to bed around 10:30pm. It usually takes me 10-15mins to fall asleep.
On my first natural awakening after 3:30am I'll do a brief WBTB for like 5mins. I'll get up and go to the toilet then briefly go over how I plan on getting lucid, dream goals, stabilization routine etc.
Now when I go back to sleep I'll either attempt a WILD or just go back to sleep with the intention of keeping completely still on the next awakening and doing some of the techniques described in The Phase in the hope of achieving a DEILD. If it fails I'll either try to WILD or go back to sleep, catch the next awakening and repeat the process until it's time to get up.
When I'm doing the DEILD attempt I'll usually cycle through 3 techniques to maintain awareness whilst falling back to sleep; passive visualization; repeat a mantra; imagine a movement like flipping or rolling.
That's pretty much it in nutshell. I hope that helps :-)