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    Thread: Reality Check

    1. #1
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      Reality Check

      Hello! this is a quick little idea that I have always gone by and just recently realized that I should share it with you. I was talking with someone and I realized that all of his RCs were to prove that he was indeed awake and all of my RCs prove that I am asleep. We brush this away usually by saying if a RC succeeds, does that mean that you are awake or asleep?

      In order to talk about this a little more I must put a couple of quotes here that we shall look at together
      "You can do anything in a dream"
      Many people
      “But I cannot forget that, at other times I have been deceived in sleep by similar illusions; and, attentively considering those cases, I perceive so clearly that there exist no certain marks by which the state of waking can ever be distinguished from sleep, that I feel greatly astonished; and in amazement I almost persuade myself that I am now dreaming.”
      Renee Descartes

      So this is what I have been looking at lately:
      I perceive so clearly that there exist no certain marks by which the state of waking can ever be distinguished from sleep.
      I come up with my own ideas from this. I can never know 100% that I am awake, because I could have a dream that was exactly like this. Even if I do a RC, then in a dream (in which anything can happen) that RC could behave just like it would in waking, "proving" that I am awake. But it doesn't prove anything. I know that RCs are mainly to raise awareness, but what awareness are we raising if we don't understand the principal of the reality check.

      I usually categorize LDers by one thing That One Lucid Dream. If you have been LDing for a while, you understand what I am talking about. That lucid dream the one above all others. The one that you were convinced that you were awake, because of the amount of realness and vividness and sense that everything around you made, but when you did a RC, you realized that you were in a dream. If you have had that LD, it changes how you think about life, if you have not, then you are in for an amazing awakening soon (do you see the pun?)

      So if we cannot know 100% that we are awake, can we know 100% that we are asleep? If I am flying around, I can assume that gravity is not working and I am asleep. If things are not persistent, I can assume that I am asleep, as I know that I the waking world is persistent. But just because something is persistent, that doesn't make it waking.

      I guess what I am saying is that only in a dream can we know, almost for a fact, what state we are in.

      When approaching RCs, I recommend doing the thing that will prove it is a dream, not prove that you are awake.

      I hear people saying things like "I know that I am awake because I can remember what I did the last few hours". Which is funny to me, because in a dream I usually remember exactly what I have been doing for years and months and weeks and days and hours, but it is in waking that I usually forget what I have been doing. I have a mission in dreams, waking is much more weird and less goal and time oriented.

      So what I usually recommend for an RC is the idea of trying to prove that it is a dream. Do something that rarely fails in a dream, something that you have mastered. I have a couple of ideas here for me that usually help me tell the difference.
      Telekinesis(or any dream control)
      I actually try to do this all the time throughout my days, accidentally even. When I am reaching for something or entering a room, I try to lift it to my hand without even thinking that that would be a weird thing to do. I often enter a room in a dream, reach for something and telekinesis it to me and realize I am dreaming at that moment.

      Dream Feeling
      Most of us have a "dream feeling" that we feel in dreams, something that is almost impossible to explain with words, but is present in dreams. Often if I have a bit of awareness in a dream, I will notice that feeling and stop and realize that it is a dream. It is a feeling that I cannot feel in waking, so it proves that it is a dream.

      Doubt
      You know what never happens to me in waking? I never doubt that I am awake. Any time I doubt that I am awake, I always assume that this is a dream. It has never failed me, but I still am cautious after and do a dream control RC before attempting anything crazy.

      Sleep
      This is what has been my new dream goal lately, one of the reasons is that it proves that I am in a dream 100%. As soon as I realize it is a dream, instead of going straight to my goals, I just lay down and go to sleep, use this as a teleportation technique and a 100% RC, because I remember falling asleep 2 seconds ago. Worst case scenario, people think I am weird because I jump on their couch and pretend to sleep.

      There are lots of other things like this, but this is what I will cover for now. If you wanted to put it a different way (rather than being in doubt all the time by thinking that you cannot prove that it is waking and thinking you might go crazy), you can say If I cannot prove that it is a dream, then I must be awake.

      This has made me realize that I needed to change my mantra (As well as FM helping too!) over to "remember, I'm dreaming", because I never have trouble thinking I am awake, it seems to be default. I like to go through the idea that I should change my mindset to always thinking I am sleeping (unless that 99% rule I mentioned where you are pretty sure you are awake). You may ask "but what if I start thinking that it is a dream during the day?" Then go through a lot of things when you wake up! Because dreams don't always start the same, but waking does, hence the name.


      This has made me form my own quote for this whole thing:
      I don't RC because I may be sleeping, I RC because I may be awake.

      Let me know what you think! Anything to add or take away or if this helps in any way!
      Last edited by Sensei; 11-25-2015 at 11:11 PM.

    2. #2
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      I like your thinking Sensei!
      The only problem is that it is the act of actually stopping to question your state that is required. The actual RC itself will go one of two ways. The main idea of doing RCs during the day is that the questioning will bleed over into your dreams. The problem I find is that in dreams I hardly ever question my state. I did do it a few times when I was first learning to LD, and became lucid because of it, but most of my LDs have been spontaneous where the RC just becomes a confirmation.
      I would love to be able to get that bleed across of questioning my state to be more frequent, but it just doesn't seem to happen. It's a bit like trying to dream about a particular subject. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but for me I have never been able to try and dream about something and for it to actually happen. I incorporate dream scenes from real life, but they are usually unusual events that have happened during the day.

      I'm not sure about your assertion that only in a dream can we know what state we are in. I would say only in a LUCID dream can we know what state we are in, on the basis that if you have done an RC and it failed (you can breathe with your nose pinched), you know what state you are in, but if you appear to be awake and an RC passes, it still could be a dream. In a non-lucid I am fairly fuzzy and don't seem to question my state or even be able to!

      I do like your mantra of "remember, I'm dreaming" though. That could work.

    3. #3
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      Thanks!

      The point of an RC isn't so that the RC will bleed into your dream, it is to raise awareness so that the awareness bleeds into your dream. The problem is, are you just raising the awareness that "I am awake" or "I am dreaming". I think a lot of people raise the amount of awareness that they have, and it makes their dreams become more like waking and more real, because they believe that they know that they are awake. there is no such thing as a spontaneous lucid dream! It was probably caused through thinking about dreams with raised awareness. Here is a thread that I made that mentions this.
      http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...s-secrets.html
      Check the place labeled "there is no such thing as a random lucid dream" in bold.

      Yes, I guess it means only in lucid dreams, I didn't mean it to mean "in all dreams", but just "only in dreams" a lucid dream is a type of dream that you know the state, so that would be the type of dream.

      Also, it should be noted that I can choose what I dream about. Incubation is a big part of becoming lucid for me, so I incorporate it into my RCs as well. I can't choose an exact dream, but a theme, person, place, thing, video game, movie etc are all pretty easy for me to get in a dream within 1-2 days of trying.
      Last edited by Sensei; 11-26-2015 at 10:09 PM.

    4. #4
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      Thanks Sensei for shedding some of your own light on one of the important basic's

      Since I have a busy life I have struggled a bit with RCs because in the guides I read it said to do them when you see a dream sighn and I Dont get recurring things all that much ... When I do recognise them they seem to take off and not appear in my dream again. So I decide to just do them randomly through out the day - after bringing fresh self awareness to my present and feeling some presence and wonder- allowing myself to just be for a few moments then RC ...Just recently the one I have been sticking with is the levitation/telekinesis RC so I am happy to see you mention it
      Then also guides often say never to actually come to the conclusion you are awake ... But above you say you have a RC that when you do it you " know you are awake "...and coming to the conclusion you " must be awake " seems to be an okay think in your opinion?

      In applying a RC throughout the day such as the telekinesis/levitation one and combining it with some incubation of wanting to incubate getting lucid and in particular place - can you say exactly how to go about it iyo ? Thanks Sensei

      I will add I have a mild ADHD which I manage and have inbraced ( i seem to think out the box quite a lot compared to others I meet which I like ) since a child but when it comes to learning and keeping up consistancy I have to find imaginative " no pressure " ways - meditation has been one of the only hobbies I have stuck with although I was EXELLENT at sports games when I was a teenager - sorry tobe off topic but thought just a little back ground might help
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      That's funny because I never really thought of the RC being to raise awareness, but only to confirm state. That's because for me it seems that the act of raising awareness has to come before the RC in order to actually remember to do one (if that makes sense? ).
      The sequence is more like 1) interrupt the current train of thought 2) stop moving 3) look about and observe 4) question if I'm awake or asleep 5) do an RC. My point is that the RC itself is only part of the ritual of raising awareness. The bit I seem to struggle with when dreaming is interrupting the dream train of thought in the first place.

      I understand what you mean by no spontaneous LDs, and I just meant that the LD started not as a direct result of doing an RC.
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      People not into lucid dreaming might get freaked out by the idea that the only time you can know your state (awake/dreaming) is when you are lucid dreaming.

      I guess the only time that might not be true is for someone who hallucinates, i.e. they are actually awake but hallucinate that they have failed an RC (see many fingers on their hand etc.). But that probably means you cannot know your state because you might be hallucinating!

      Having hallucinated once when I had pneumonia, due to lack of sleep, I know what that means. Starting to freak myself out now! ; -)
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      " I never have trouble thinking I am awake, it seems to be default." The problem is when you are awake you are not lucid and not experiencing that one dream which is reality in my book. This idea that we are dreaming all the time is very helpful and upon analysis it is true. "I RC because I may be awake". Yes being awake is the problem and the delusion. It's reality Jim but not as we know it.
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      What I am getting from this conversation is " always assume I could most deffinatelly be dreaming" as a RC
      and so on that premis continue to persue your checks/tests i.e Telekinisis/floating /fly ... stuff you do in LD's often and with some ease - Sooo

      " am I dreaming this right now?" Looking around - taking things in - focus a little on myself in this enviroment, my sense of myself here connected on so many levels to stuff around me imagine levitations around me with objects and people and myself - try to put my hands through walls around me - investing/giving myself of the thought that I "really seriously"could be dreaming still and advise myself to stay vigilant and aware of the dream state ...then sometimes...

      Imagine myself becoming Lucid and staying lucid for a while and thinking " what an amazing long and stable dream this is - wow it's just soo life like "

      Right?
      Last edited by Patience108; 11-29-2015 at 09:59 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Goldenspark View Post
      That's funny because I never really thought of the RC being to raise awareness, but only to confirm state. That's because for me it seems that the act of raising awareness has to come before the RC in order to actually remember to do one (if that makes sense? ).
      The sequence is more like 1) interrupt the current train of thought 2) stop moving 3) look about and observe 4) question if I'm awake or asleep 5) do an RC. My point is that the RC itself is only part of the ritual of raising awareness. The bit I seem to struggle with when dreaming is interrupting the dream train of thought in the first place.

      I understand what you mean by no spontaneous LDs, and I just meant that the LD started not as a direct result of doing an RC.
      Yes! Yes! Yes! Interrupt the current train of thought is the first thing to do. I hate not being lucid.

    10. #10
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      Great post, Sensei. I do not believe RC's "raise awareness," strictly speaking. Increased attention raises awareness. RCs come about from raise awareness, and/or remembering your goal to determine your state in order to be lucid in dreams, not the other way around. RCs can "cement budding lucidity". RCs are quick tests to determine your state. I think these are better mindsets for beginners to have.
      Sageous likes this.
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    11. #11
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      I have been considering lately what is the proper mindset to maintain for long run success in lucid dreaming. After my long break I realize that the techniques I used to use may have worked to get me lucids but will not facilitate further growth. I have a good grasp on reality checks but I need to make it so I actually do them during dreams. I find that I am most likely to do RCs during the day when I am in quite moments alone at home while most of my dreams have me running around in borderline stressful situations. It is a great idea to always assume you are dreaming instead of waiting for the dream signs. When you are dreaming you will already know! All you have do do is confirm it then.

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by MadMonkey View Post
      I have been considering lately what is the proper mindset to maintain for long run success in lucid dreaming. After my long break I realize that the techniques I used to use may have worked to get me lucids but will not facilitate further growth. I have a good grasp on reality checks but I need to make it so I actually do them during dreams. I find that I am most likely to do RCs during the day when I am in quite moments alone at home while most of my dreams have me running around in borderline stressful situations. It is a great idea to always assume you are dreaming instead of waiting for the dream signs. When you are dreaming you will already know! All you have do do is confirm it then.
      Long-term success in LDing requires I believe the practitioner to become a lucid person, 24x7.

      I, too, tend to have a much more quiet waking life than dreaming life, and find myself highly mindful during the quiet times but it's so simple to slip into conditioned responses in more stressful, "noisy" (physically, emotionally) situations. My dreams are full of people, situations, interactions, conversations, much more urgent most of the time, while my waking life is mostly fairly quiet in comparison. I think we need to get the most out of every "stimulus/response" we find ourselves in. This requires careful attention. I also like to get myself out into the hustle and bustle of crowded city life from time to time to "shake things up."

      A recent focus of mine is to avoid routine like the plague. Do anything you can to not slip into autopilot: do things differently, even little things: the paths you walk, use of your dominant hand vs. non-dominant.

      I also like to pay attention to the quality of experience: pay attention to quiet/static vs. hectic/stressful/dynamic, I think this can serve as a sort of "all day RC" approach, in addition to helping one stay vigilant.

      More important than the RC itself is recognizing the times to do them. I find myself fairly frequently realizing moments later that I glossed over something a moment before and do a RC at that time. I have these thoughts in dreams sometimes and do get lucid from them, but it's better I think to catch the moment as it occurs than to rely on "background/delayed reflection".
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
      FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
      “No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

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