Thread: Awareness Awareness

Originally Posted by 44CalibreSunlight

All I simply do now is tell myself AWARENESS and make sure I'm not sleepwalking through my daily life.

I've been doing this constantly for 3 or 4 days, and I find it easier to remember than reality checks (which I combine sometimes)

But I've found that I'm actually going through thought processes in my dreams now (for the first time) Actually thinking about things rather than simply reacting. I remembered more dreams last night than I usually ever do, and my recent dreams are including bits and memories of EARLIER dreams from the same night.

I didn't become lucid last night, but this has been the first sleep since I started awareness that I actually had a chance to try and remember some dreams, or really feel the effects of the process.

I'm gonna record last nights dream in my dream journal pretty soon but I'm leaving town in an hour... and sitting here in a towel so I gotta go

I kinda took this idea from a topi about living lucid which I cannot find now, but it's working amazingly.

It's a good idea.

You might also find it helps to do what I call sense checks.

I often open my hand and count;
One - Smell
Two- Touch
Three- Taste
Four- Hear
Five- Awareness

The counting helps focus on the sense and brings awareness to them. I hope it helps you as it helped me.

~

thanks! II guess zoning in on the senses you want to BE aware of is the next step.

Yeah that's a really good idea. Reality checks are helpful too, but being present and "living in the moment" is a very powerful way to boost lucidity. It's nothing big or complicated, just a very ordinary willingness to be with the present moment in whatever form it may take.

I have been trying to concentrate on just being in the moment and I really like your idea. It's very simple (I mean that in a totally good way).

O'nus, I love the idea of going through the senses. I am really going to start using that one, too.

Originally Posted by 44CalibreSunlight

All I simply do now is tell myself AWARENESS and make sure I'm not sleepwalking through my daily life.

I've been doing this constantly for 3 or 4 days, and I find it easier to remember than reality checks (which I combine sometimes)

Oh man, I've been doing this too. Like, exactly this and I've been doing it steadily for the past few days... Weird.

But yeah, one thing I think about is "how can you become aware that you are dreaming, when you are hardly aware that you are asleep?"

I think I heard that quote on this forum.

How can meta-awareness help you become lucid? It has nothing to do with being conventionally lucid, nothing to do with being aware of realness or unrealness of the world around you.

All you're doing with meta-awareness is commenting on what you do, that's not more lucid than the usual state of mind. You still react in the same automatic ways, but as you now comment on it (I do this, I do that), you wrongly imagine that you're less automatic

That's the classical placebo: if you believe that behaving in this way will make you lucid at night, then of course it would! But in its pure form, without self-suffesting, all that meta-awareness could achieve would be to have you comment on your actions and feelings in your dreams, still without being aware that your surroundings are unreal...

For that to work in its pure form you'd need this behavior so deeply ingrained in yourself so that in ALL normal dreams it would be present. I doubt that anybody who advises such methods here is behaving like that in absolutely all dreams, actually I doubt that they behave so even in half of them. So we can see how this placebo works: the behavior is not ingrained at all, but they still become lucid from time to time, and they decide that the self-commenting is the cause. It's purely a confusion about the true cause.

And before somebody tells me that it's all too theoretical, I'll say that these conclusions come strictly from practice, and not only from mine. Even mostly not from mine. If somebody can defend meta-awareness with their own practice (having meta-awareness so deeply ingained that it's present in all dreams), be my guest.

Well for me the fact that this awareness technique is associated with dreaming itself, it basically serves as a form of the MILD method in my eyes. As in the willingness to be aware of the waking world will transfer into dreams and let your mind carry the subject of lucid dreaming around with you more often.

I also find that when I'm not lucid, my dreams simpy rush by and it's simply a memory of a time in my life where my mind passivly reacted to things. Practicing awareness in waking life for me, makes it seems as if my entire day was just a passive memory until the point in time I decide I am aware. It feels almost as if I was just givena soul every time I think about it.

I think it's also just remembering to observe at a more critical level, rather than look at what you know is there, look at what IS there and find what else is hiding.

I totally know what you mean, 44. If we're not aware of what's going on in general, how would we ever notice dream signs in our dreams to trigger RCs? LDing IS about becoming aware that you're dreaming when you are dreaming, so how are you going to do that if you're never aware of much at all?

I guess I just don't understand what you're trying to say, Arutad, or why you object to talking about trying to be more cognizant of your surroundings.

Originally Posted by Harper

I guess I just don't understand what you're trying to say, Arutad

Maybe the word meta-awareness was confusing. I used it to avoid a circular definition. What it means is "awareness of awareness"

To give an example, in what case are you cognizant more of looking at the table: when you look at it, or when you look at it and comment "I'm looking at the table"? In the second case an additional action of mental commenting is added, but the action of looking remains the same, not altered in any way.

why you object to talking about trying to be more cognizant of your surroundings.

I don't object to it, I only object that it helps to be lucid...

Picture yourself in your dreams, commenting on all you do, in what way would it make you lucid? You can be commenting all you please, without clear realization that it's a dream, because you're commenting on what you see or feel or do, not on the nature of the world as real or unreal!

He's not talking about "meta awareness" he's talking about Awareness. Awareness is absolutely the way to become more lucid. I would even go so far as to say the only thing that prevents most people from naturally becoming lucid every single night as soon as they begin to dream is the fact that in they are so unaware in their waking lives, constantly getting lost in thought streams and mentally projecting themselves away from the present moment. This deep habit of unawareness causes people to habitually and unconsciously "react" to the stimulus around them, rather than being aware and actually deciding what I want to do.

Anyone who takes time once or twice or a few times a day to just pause, slow down, relax their mind, and intensely observe their surroundings in a very "aware" way will quickly notice more awareness bleeding into the dream state, which will unequivocally lead to more lucid dreams. As an added bonus, your dreams will also be much more vivid and lifelike.

Originally Posted by MrFantasy

He's not talking about "meta awareness" he's talking about Awareness. Awareness is absolutely the way to become more lucid. I would even go so far as to say the only thing that prevents most people from naturally becoming lucid every single night as soon as they begin to dream is the fact that in they are so unaware in their waking lives, constantly getting lost in thought streams and mentally projecting themselves away from the present moment. This deep habit of unawareness causes people to habitually and unconsciously "react" to the stimulus around them, rather than being aware and actually deciding what I want to do.

You hit the nail right in the head. This is what I was saying in a topic I made. Constant t.v., video games, and computer screen severely distracts us from our senses. ADD/ADHD is not a real disorder.

Meditation helps immensely to relax and quiet the chattering mind. I posted a mandala you can just concentrate at the center and watch it move. It's a visual meditation and it's very easy.

Originally Posted by MrFantasy

He's not talking about "meta awareness" he's talking about Awareness. Awareness is absolutely the way to become more lucid. I would even go so far as to say the only thing that prevents most people from naturally becoming lucid every single night as soon as they begin to dream is the fact that in they are so unaware in their waking lives, constantly getting lost in thought streams and mentally projecting themselves away from the present moment. This deep habit of unawareness causes people to habitually and unconsciously "react" to the stimulus around them, rather than being aware and actually deciding what I want to do.

Anyone who takes time once or twice or a few times a day to just pause, slow down, relax their mind, and intensely observe their surroundings in a very "aware" way will quickly notice more awareness bleeding into the dream state, which will unequivocally lead to more lucid dreams. As an added bonus, your dreams will also be much more vivid and lifelike.

Yes yes yes, that is exactly the idea I'm trying to convey, or I guess didn't try hard enough :p

It's kinda like, the ability to react to stimulus witha greater depth of conscious thought.
I may be using the wrong term but it kind of cancels out the super-ego effect. where your subconscious will just act on it's own to make you react to something based on your ego.

Originally Posted by 44CalibreSunlight

Yes yes yes, that is exactly the idea I'm trying to convey, or I guess didn't try hard enough :p

It's kinda like, the ability to react to stimulus witha greater depth of conscious thought.
I may be using the wrong term but it kind of cancels out the super-ego effect. where your subconscious will just act on it's own to make you react to something based on your ego.

What's the matter...not answering my question? I think it's just plain rude! Besides to be honest from experience being hyper aware of your daily life isn't enough.....the most common mistake people make is to treat the subconcious like as though it can think and 'follow' what the concious mind thinks..that's just plain stupidity!

IMJ

Originally Posted by imj

What's the matter...not answering my question? I think it's just plain rude! Besides to be honest from experience being hyper aware of your daily life isn't enough.....the most common mistake people make is to treat the subconcious like as though it can think and 'follow' what the concious mind thinks..that's just plain stupidity!

IMJ

well keep walking around unaware of the world around you, continue to sleepwalk. Conscious mind influences the subconscious mind...why do you think affirmations work. But I guess you knew that.

Originally Posted by MrFantasy

He's not talking about "meta awareness he's talking about Awareness.

You already have awareness. While reading you're now aware of the letters on your screen and how they make meaningful sentences. What is proposed here is to add mental commenting on top of that...

This deep habit of unawareness causes people to habitually and unconsciously "react" to the stimulus around them, rather than being aware and actually deciding what I want to do.

Are you saying that people you know, including yourself, never do what they want to do? You're not, say, eating the food you like, but instead unconsciously take the crappiest one from the store?

Originally Posted by Arutad

You already have awareness. While reading you're now aware of the letters on your screen and how they make meaningful sentences. What is proposed here is to add mental commenting on top of that...


Are you saying that people you know, including yourself, never do what they want to do? You're not, say, eating the food you like, but instead unconsciously take the crappiest one from the store?

Arutad..... What is proposed is not to add mental commenting, that would just be more thinking, which clouds the very Awareness being discussed here.

http://www.consciousdreaming.com/luc...dream.htm#five
Read step five. It might clear some things up for you

RL awareness is the DILD holy grail. My LDs have skyrocketed since I've RC'ed every time I thought somehing weird happened.

Originally Posted by MrFantasy

Arutad..... What is proposed is not to add mental commenting, that would just be more thinking, which clouds the very Awareness being discussed here.

http://www.consciousdreaming.com/luc...dream.htm#five
Read step five. It might clear some things up for you

Actually you're wrong. The author of the article you pointed out calls it "awareness of awareness". So maybe you chose the wrong article...

And you didn't reply whether you actually buy the crappiest food from the store, I guess you have nothing to say Yes, escape when being cornered with irrationality of your ideas by diverting the topic somewhere else!

From the article:

The term awareness as we will be referring to it applies to your consciousness. How conscious are you? It alludes to your current level of self-observation. How aware are you of your awareness?

That about sums it up. Awareness already exists. But for the author this awareness is semi-conscious and inferior, and he insists that to make it fully conscious we should focus on self-observation. Sorry, but that's just dumb... Firstly, what does the definition of consciousness have to do with self-observation, and secondly, why would self-observation raise it, instead of being merely a switch from one object of observation to another?

How truly aware are you?

there are differing levels of awareness nor were they ever taught how to cultivate a heightened sense of awareness.

See, awareness of yourself is the only "true" awareness here, even "the heightened awareness"! If you watch a spider climbing over a tree stump, the poor you is only semi-conscious. But if you watch how you eat breakfast, you're very very concious. Can you see how ridiculous it is? It's all about a hidden statement that somehow self-observation is the "superior" type of obvervation. The level of consciousness itself doesn't change quantitatively, the object does.

Do you ever realize you've been listening to the radio and haven't heard it for minutes?

This situation is about losing the object of attention, about focusing on your wandering thoughts instead of the radio. But the author claims that it's about loss of self-focus, instead of being loss of the focus on the radio...

I guess the author is so self-obsessed that he can't listen to the radio without thinking about himself

It is as if we are normally aware of riding the crest of a wave produced by external factors instead of guiding our awareness ourselves. We react more than we reflect which leads to automated behavior.

Here the author thinks that if he is focused on himself, he is "controlling" his awareness, instead of being merely focused on himself. That's an interesting fantasy! Watching a spider is uncontrollable, but watching yourself suddenly becomes controllable... And moreso, watching a spider is automatic, but watching yourself is suddenly non-automatic...

Can you see that it's all in his imagination? It's a trick of words to call the same thing different names, automatic or non-automatic, purely based on what object the awareness is glued to. Obsessive self-focus = good, not very obsessive self-focus = bad. The hidden premise here is that the author equates the slightest loss of self-focus with something bad, which might signify his hidden fear of going crazy.

P.S. Ultimately all these irrational convictions can still help with LDing by executing placeboes, thanx to a very strong belief in them.

You're arguing over semantics.

Arutad, do you know what an epoche is?

(And I do mean phenomenology)

~

Originally Posted by Ethereal

You're arguing over semantics.

Not at all. Sorry but you didn't catch the point.

They say that raised self-awareness produces lucidity. There's no explanation why, except that the two words sound "kind of the same". If we look deeper, there's no connection between self-commentary and evaluation of the outside world as a dream. Self-commentary can run in LDs without producing it, and it fact it already does run (to a lesser degree than what they offer to master).

Then they say that there's a technique for raising self-awareness. I point out the fundamental wrong premise in the technique that shows that it doesn't raise awareness. In my opinion that crushes the whole theory. No arguing about semantics, everything is dead serious!

Originally Posted by O'nus

Arutad, do you know what an epoche is?

(And I do mean phenomenology)

~

Yes, what did you want to say about it?

I don't think this can really be argued over to be honest. I think that this kind of "mental physics" is too self contradictory to be really set in stone.

I think whatever you tend to believe works for you, if YOUR mind can contain a reason for it to work. As if awareness were hardwired into my mind as a task that could benifit me, so it does because because the habit of sensing awareness puts me back into reality as a whole rather than the one place I reside in THAT time. And at the same time it puts me more into that moment than ever.

Everything mind-related I've ever thought about could be viewed from two different angles in ways that constantly contradict themselves, but both seemingly totally true. So this whole arguement might just be pointless.

One thing though, I don't really propose mental commentary on top of percieving the enviroment, it really isn't "commenting" it's this extra level of knowing what's around you that's almost like an alterend state of consciousness

I'll tell you what it feels like.

I'm walking down the road watching it move under my feet. I remember awareness and look at the road again and it's as if the entire span of time before that has a lessened amount of significance. like you weren't aware untill that point, and everything before it was a memory, and can only not be a memory until you become aware again.

And that ^ paragraph is supposed to contradict itself, because I said it was a feeling, and feelings can be elusive of logic.

If you read up on just about any book about "Dream Yoga" you will see that awarenes plays a very large role in getting lucidity in your dreams as well as in your waking life. But thanks for bringing it up again 44, it can't be said enough