past lives

The topic of past lives came up in the 'ego death' thread, so I thought I'd start a new thread....

As I've posted before, I'm skeptical of the idea of past lives, I think we have karmic interrelationships with people who have lived before, but they're not really 'us' exactly. I think that if two different people were to somehow trace a 'history' of past lives those histories could include some of the same people.

A couple of years ago after I asked to see past lives, I was given a set of rectangular plates on which to paint my past lives. I 'painted' them, as with water, and set them down to wait for the to develop. Then a laughing witch with bugs in her mouth took them away from me.

I've also had several dreams where I was German. In one I was a wealthy investor and amateur pianist, living in a house with two or three nice pianos, maybe 100 years ago. In another I was a young soldier, sad because we lost the war. In another I was a fascist revolutionary. In another I was a blond woman sitting in a dark room, with the 1940 invasion of France, or similar, as a backdrop. I'm about half German by ancestry, but not especially interested in German history, war history, or those time periods. In all of these dreams, I'm certain I was at least in part forming images empathetically from what I felt from other people with German ancestry. I don't even think the thoughts were exclusively about historical lives, they were also projections of suppressed thoughts about present lives. All of these experiences seem consistent with my idea that we're all interrelated but don't have past lives that belong specifically to us.

But if we do have past lives that are specifically our own, maybe it could be useful to become aware of them, to give myself a little more context for who I am.

Oh yeah, that reminds me, I feel a strong connection with what feels somewhat like south American religions having to do with human sacrifice. This isn't something I've studied or have been interested in, but I seem to understand something about it innately. These feelings are also connected to the abuse of hallucinogenics for 'spiritual' experiences, which I see to be connected in certain regards, though this isn't something I've done either. I feel guilt for the human sacrifice thing, significantly more guilt than I feel in relation to anything else, and it feel as if my major 'karmic' responsibilities in life are tied to this somehow. Again, I don't know how much this is 'me', and how much I'm just tapping into what I sense in other people.

The laughing woman with bugs in her mouth reminds me of the I Ching image, 'pay heed to the providing of nourishment and what a man seeks to fill his own mouth with'. That may imply that its not constructive for me to be concerned about past lives. The teeth also remind me of critical reasoning, and the bugs feel related to desires. The masculine part of myself that's closest to the active side of my subconscious, closely related to will, feels bug infested somehow, or like a big carnivorous caterpillar, and I feel some fear in that area. The bug larvae could be immature thoughts, seeds of thoughts. Maybe knowing more about 'past lives' could help me understand the fear better.

The 'photographic' plates remind me a little bit of what Sivason said about his past life memories being flat, which is why I started this thread.

The dreams I had about German people were not at all flat by the way, I experienced myself as being those people.

I think for me to experience something new there, somebody who has more of an affinity for such things would probably have to have a related desire in my direction. The other person's thought would open up a channel of sorts where I can empathetically use their type of awareness to learn something new about both of us. From experience with acquaintances, it doesn't take a very strong intent on their part to make something happen, though I haven't had a lot of strong effects like this from other people on dreamviews.

Any 'past live' remembering I do would probably be in a self-aware but passive dream based on that intersection of thought: I wouldn't be attempting to 'do' anything lucidly. Even if I don't wind up with any picture images, I could plausibly wind up with new feelings about things, such as I have in relation to ancient religions.

Anyway, all kinds of comments or suggestions are welcome.

Tonight I am going to have to be brief as I am tired from a long days work. I will gladly talk on this subject, when I have time, probably tomorrow. I have never had any past life memories come to me in the dream state. I have recovered many fairly clear episodes from each life going back to a very tragic event in the French Revolution. I gained access to the memories through a fairly complicated meditation over a few years. I imagine it could be accomplished with out a high level of Yogic skills, but the way I did it is a pretty advanced meditation. I will make a point of explaining it when I write more. It may seem very strange, but works very well for me. Strangely or humurously no one taught the method to me, instead I remembered it. The reason I only have gone back to the French Revolution is I think I need to deal with as much as I can from recent lives, and the negative side of this, I am about to discuss. I have accidently got glimpses furture back, including hints of prehistoric animal lives, but try to avoid that.
I have mixed feeling on the usefullness of this path, just like me and Shadowofwind discussed in the energy thread. I am highly aware of many things that would be called mystical, but I liked the comment Shadowofwind made to me once about wondering if supernatural paths were 'Spirtitual Junk Food' or something in that vane. The pro side of it is that many of our quirks can be traced back to an event in our recent past lives.Remebering the cause can help you come to terms with why you have certain issues, and that helps you move past them. As an example, I learned why I am afraid of, and bitterly hateful of, a certain type of snow storm. I am still creeped out by that type of snow, but realize why, and am actually starting to get over it.
The negetive side of it for me is that it seems only extreme events have been recoverable. The ability of the soul to forget the pain and horror of certain things upon death is a blessing. It is like when an abused person finally can remember something they supressed. The remembering may be needed for healing to begin, but is tramatic.
On a lighter note, I find Shadowofwinds experience with photographic plates fasinating, because that is exactly how I have describe these images to my family before. The true memories I have found are what I call 'silver etching on a black background in 2 dimensions'. That is almost just like a photographic negative. More on the subject soon. I am half asleep at the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sivason

I have accidently got glimpses furture back, including hints of prehistoric animal lives, but try to avoid that.

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That reminds me of a dream where I was an animal trotting through a clearing, unlike any animal I'm aware of that currently lives on the earth. It was a happy dream. It seemed very much like 'me', not like someone else.

I also feel as though I've been an alien that has two spinal columns, one on each side, instead of the one in the back. I haven't dreamed about this, but its a very strong impression if I think about it, and the transition to a single spined animal feels to have been traumatic. With the two spines, and the corresponding brain differences, it seems an individual can do something like waking and lucid-dreaming thinking at the same time, rather than cycling sequentially through waking and sleeping states. But I think that it makes it harder to integrate the two processes, and that the human design is advantageous in that regard.

I also feel that I've been in closer telepathetic communication with others in the past, less like an individual and more a like a part of a big network, then there was some kind of large scale falling apart, almost like the universe was stretched from the corners and we couldn't hold together any longer. For the most part I don't feel much affinity for the earth or its history, its as if I'm from somewhere else, though of course this sense is pretty subjective, and could be distorted enormously by what I'm suppressing or not.

I feel close connections to rocks and animals in parts of the American west, even though I don't have any human ancestry from there, and I guess no humans have been in north America for more than 20,000 years or so. I feel more affinity to the idea that my human spirit is a collection of animal spirits, maybe which don't always gather together in the same combinations between human lives.

Regarding what is and is not spiritual junk food: I think what constitutes good food or not depends a lot on history. For instance, lets suppose than a person reincarnates after spending many lifetimes doing mental yoga, and then figures out that mental yoga is a dead end. That person can't just throw it all away and live as if they have never done that sort of thing. Doors have been opened, patterns have been developed and deeply ingrained. It has to be fed and cared for, much as a child has to be fed and cared for even after the romance that spawned the child is over, not locked away in a dark room and forgotten. Similarly, I think that caring about past lives is going to be necessary for some people, even if its not a good idea for a lot of other people. I don't know which category I fall into. I guess if it comes naturally, without a lot of mental contortions, then I'm in that category. One way I approach this sort of thing is to follow the fear. If I sense fear in a part of myself, I look for a way to see into it. Of course people are often afraid of things that are actually dangerous, like using dangerous drugs or hunting dangerous animals. But I'm just talking about finding the opening to something I'm suppressing or hiding from in myself and thinking about it. I'm not talking about prying open my third eye with a crowbar or something.

A can see that one possible benefit of being aware of a past life, is it would enable a person to work through and straighten out certain kinds of thoughts without having to go through the same experiences in life. On the flip side, it might be better to just deal what is in front of oneself in the current life. Fate is pretty good about serving up food for thought, and doesn't necessarily need the help of any exotic meditative devices.

I'd say something like the 'human sacrifice' impression is strong enough that its already in front of me as something to deal with, not something I have to dig up to be aware of. That kind of awareness may be an undesirable side effect of those practices themselves, but like I said I have to move on from where I am now. For the most part this subject isn't something I've dreamed about, its something I feel while awake. Off hand I can think of only one dream, where I was in a large semi-basement filled with antiques, representing old memories, and people were doing hosannas in front of some kind of god and there was blood flying off of them.

In a related context I see something like falling mirrors, like the mirrors are people's souls, and windows into other worlds, and I feel responsibility and remorse. I don't know more specifically what this refers to - it could take a lot of different forms in terms of events or human behavior. I also feel that there's a play here with possibilities, that the potential of something that could have happened but did not is used for some kind of magic. I'm not aware that people consciously do this kind of thinking, it seems slightly more advanced somehow, not possible within the scope of how people normally think about time and events.

Sivason - for the most part I don't do meditation, but I can feel impressions of things and think about the impressions. I don't really have a "mind's eye" where I see pictures, and I don't have a very free-flowing imagination in relation to sounds either. But to the extent I can think about impressions that I can feel, I'd just as soon think about this sort of thing while awake rather than doing it in dream.

This morning I had a few dreams/visions as a result of this conversation. I can't say I learned a lot from it.

First dream is of a young blonde woman. She said that I work for her mother, and that I should come to her house later. It seemed she might want me to help her with a car purchasing decision. I also got the impression that her step-dad was some kind of big shot.

Next scene is as if I'm sitting on the ground looking up at her, seeing the shape of her face and body better. She is tall and pretty, wearing a long, striped, body hugging sweater/dress like thing. This isn't quite a dream, I'm sort of awake.

Next scene is a lucid dream of an unnaturally short, heavyset central American man with long wavy hair, less than four feet tall. He is wearing a striped sweater, though not quite the same as the one the woman was in. I watch him for a few minutes wondering what the point is. A small child, probably a relative falls down nearby. I can't quite see him, or judge from the reactions of the people around him if he's OK. It seems like a typical tragedy/lethal-accident premonition type dream. I hope the child is OK. I think this event is probably incidental, and is a convenient setting for my attention to be drawn to the short man.

Next dream I'm sleeping in the house of an older version of the blonde woman. I can hear the voices of my mother and mother in-law as if they're in the house, though they're not in the house, they're far away in my house (where I am not presently). I get up and go into the kitchen. The woman's husband is sleeping in a room on the other side. I say "I don't know who I am or why I'm here", or something to that effect. The woman doesn't notice me. A moment later as I am standing behind her she turns around and sees me, and is startled, frightened. She asks me in a whisper why I hadn't said anything to let her know I was there. I said I did, but was quiet because I didn't want to wake her husband. She obviously recognizes who I am, and I'm someone she knows well. She crosses to the other side of the kitchen, then returns to me and sits or kneels at my feet, then I wake up.

I don't recognize who this woman is. If I had to pick one state or the other, I'd say that she is 'dead', and that the meeting took place in her disembodied, dreaming mind. Even though it was an active, present moment experience, its as if the context of identity is 'past' in some sense, like we were in the present moment resurrecting something of who she was. I think that when she's kneeling at my feet, that means her attention is on my outward form, which is metaphorically like the lowest part of the body. The striped sweater and the short height of the central American man seems to imply that a taller version of him has been her more recent outward appearance. She also seems to have some connection with my wife, who when we first met had a slightly similar sweater. It also seems to me that her and my wife smell similarly, in a good way, though I mean 'smell' metaphorically, as if I'm smelling identity rather than organic molecules.

The house would be the woman's mind. The car purchase would be a life situation change. The kitchen would be her imagination. The sleeping husband could be a real spouse, but would also be her intellect, who's conscious attention was not turned on the experience. Our mothers would be our higher selves, sort of. I think the kneeling also implies a kind of devotion, such as to a family memory, but isn't an attitude that I understand very well.

I still feel as though people aren't completely unique as individuals, that they're projections of certain aspects of this more abstract space of identity, and that it doesn't completely make sense to ask if the woman is or isn't my wife, or is or isn't the dark man with wavy hair. I think she is my wife, but also is not my wife.

I see no 'past life memories' in any of this, its more like wandering around in a world of personal identity, which has vague connections to other times and places.

Upon further reflection....

I think the short, brown stocky man is a mirrored projection of the tall, young, blonde woman. Based on past experience I think the scene I witnessed probably corresponds to an actual scene somewhere, but I doubt there's a special or unique connection between him and me, aside from his image fitting what I was thinking about.

The flat, metallic, and film-like nature of the 'past life memories' discussed earlier seems to suggest that they're a projection from a subtler or higher form of memory or reality. I see the physical world to be this way, so there may be an implication there that when we ask for 'past life memories' we're looking for a kind of projection of something that exists at a deeper level. My hypothesis has been that there are innumerable possible projections that incorporate different aspects of the same information.

By way of analogy....In computer graphics, colors are typically formed from combinations of red, green and blue. Another scheme is yellow, cyan and magenta. Red, yellow and blue would work also, or red, orange, and purple, or blue, green, and purple, though those schemes aren't quite as direct. Innumerable other combinations of various browns are also possible. It doesn't matter what three colors you use as long as they 'span', the colors. For example, you can't use red, purple, and blue, because you would have no yellow. But red, purple and white would work because you get blue by subtracting red from purple, and yellow by subtracting purple from white.

I think the blonde woman and the dark brown man are projected from my awareness of identity. By changing the way I think about it, I could have projected images of a brown haired brother and sister from almost the same information, which I could have related in a very weakly clairvoyant manner to actual people having that resemblance. If my internal awareness of identity were sufficiently developed and general, so that it 'spanned' all human forms, internal and external, I could do that with anybody. Though such an awareness would be practically impossible, because of the complexity of human experience, I could approximate it. That's all we do when we 'know' people anyway, we know an approximation of a part of them that is recognizable from who we are.

As far as I am aware, my sense of 'self' is a projection from this more general world of identity, and the projection fits or reflects my particular physical circumstance. Conversely, I could say that my physical circumstance is a manifestation of that particular aspect of identity. But if there's a specific 'me' that persists from life to life, without separating and combining with innumerable other possible personal identities, then I'm not seeing it, and the idea doesn't seem compatible with how I experience myself even now. I'm not suggesting that my ignorance means there is no such thing, just that I don't see how to fit that idea with my understanding and experience.

I will address some of the thoughts so far. Alien lifetimes? Very, very realistic. Think of e=mc2. The nature of the physical world is an appearence of solids and distance. However, in the deeper truth there is no distance between anyone and any place, or for that matter any time.That sounds crazy, but it is true. Some of the yogic powers become far more effective when this is truely grasped. A soul tends to follow a conveniant lazy path, which is to re-enter the physical world it is familiar with. They tend to inhabit a new body similar to the old one, close to where they called home, and sequentially in time. This is not at all a requirment. To the bodiless soul the concept of distence need not enter the equation. It can reincarnate in another galaxy, with no need to travel. It can also choose to re-enter the physical world out of sequence with time. When trying to grasp past lives, remember that they will likely be sequential but need not be. Your last life may have been in ancient Rome, while the one before it was in the 20th century. But, the time thing is hard to grasp, and off topic.
A specific me, that persists from life to life? It is not cut and dry what path a soul will take as far as this. What you have preceived on your own, about being a combination of many identities, and so on has a rational explaination. The amount of energy needed to occupy one body is small. The more energy pushed into a single body, the more it can change its experience, for instance, be born with a special talent, or a fortunate circumstance. When a energy body is getting so large that it can occupy many bodies, it has that as an option. Each body will feel personal identity, but is only a portion of the soul. It has a new distinct reality, but is connected to the rest, like being a finger on a hand. It shares the knowledge of each life with the other 'fingers' each time it returns, in death, to the big soul that has subdivided its self. The past life recconing for such a person will be a little confusing as you have access to all of the 'fingers' experience. However, if a soul subdiveds itself too much it produces less powerful lives and bodies. This is how I explain the soul of an insect. No, the individual insect does not get it own soul, but is a 'finger' on a 'hand' that may have 100,000 fingers. The Buddist saying is basically that it is like the moon; the moon is one thing, but can be reflected similtaneously in thousands of ponds on Earth, yet the moon is not diminished.
When one of those fingers is old enough, and developed enough, it buds off of the larger soul. It becomes an idividual, rather than a finger. It is however always connected in some way to what it was generated from, and all the 'fingers' that it had shared experience with (those that formed before it budded off). The individual upon having grown through many solo lifetimes, gets the choice then to branch out and attempt to run multiple bodies, or keep all of its energy in one solid peice. So, depending on the stage you fall in this cycle, you will have a different concept of individuality, and past lives. I am greedy in a way. I collect power and do not brach myself out, or generate offspring, at least not any time in the last few hundred or thousands of lifetimes. This gives me a strong sense of self, although I still can trace my connection to what spawned me.You never get to cut that connection. OK, that is very confusing perhaps, but is a rational reason you would feel like you do.

Still addressing issues posted above.
" I think for me to experience something new there, somebody who has more of an affinity for such things would probably have to have a related desire in my direction." This is why Hindu mystics have been told they must have a Guru. I will never accept titles or demand loyalty from anyone I have decided to help. It is self destrutive to both people, in my opinion. But here is concept (this is true), as there is no actual distance between any two people a powerful person can concentrate their energy any where or on anyone, with out having to have the energy travel. The energy body of an untrained person has knots in it and blockages that need to be overcome. There is a minimum energy requirement to achieve certain tasks. If you remember Chemistry, it is the 'enegy of activation', a energy requirment that is needed to start a process, but is not needed to maintain the process. Another way of looking at that is car batteries. If a battery is depleted below the voltage required by the starter, it will not engage the starter (push start might work). However, if it is linked to a fully charged battery it can run the starter; then the charged battery is no longer needed, and the system will charge up the depleted battery on its own.
Method: As at the moment the only person I know is reading this thread is Shadowofwind, I will not bother posting the advanced yogic sequance I have used. I want to post something taylored to him and his needs.
Shadowofwind, We can arrange on PM to transfer enough energy to get you started. First you need to pick a quirk about yourself that you have a question about how you developed it. Alternatively pick a very basic image that you suspect may be past life related. I could suggest 'the piano' or 'the woman' as examples. My first one was my hatered of one type of snow storm.
I think for you, we should do something where you get images while half asleep or dreaming, to overcome the possable lack of meditative skill. As you are going to bed, you should try to preceive your energy body. The memories are stored in a way that is hard to understand. Think of bianary messages encoded in a beam of light. You could varie the transmited wave length so that what seems like a simple beam of light could be read as a recorded message by a computer. If you can not preceive your energy body, just imagine that you are. Every one can effect their energy through will, even if they are not able to preceive it. The energy body is normally tightly wound like a ball of yarn. If that ball of yarn had a bianary pattern encoded in it, by shifts in its color, you would only be able to read what was on the surface of the ball (your memories from events in this life).
Now 'imagine' that as you breath in you are relaxing the entire ball of yarn and allowing space to fill between the parts of the yarn where they would normally be in contact. Do this until you feel as if you opened some space between many of the parts of the yarn. Then I want you to recall whatever you have decided on like 'the piano' While keeping the feeling of being expanded, ask that you would like to know more about why the piano (or whatever) is present in your mind. What you are looking for is to find what part of the ball of yarn holds some connection to the subject. Again, if you are not able to actuallly preceive this, pretend to yourself that you can. A portion of the yarn will attract your attention, or you will imagine that it does if need be. Turn your focus to that specific portion. Ask that you be given insight on the topic. Relax your mind and do not doubt what happens next.
You want to keep your mind very relaxed. No anxiety about will it work. No worrying that you may be creating a made up memory or train of thought. It may in fact be nothing more than made up. That is OK at first. For you at this point, I think you should allow yourself to fall asleep. What you are looking for is either an image or dream that strikes you as different and intense, or a train of thought (or dream) that has an emotional impact on you. Do not assume it is a real memory because it passess your mind, or happens one time. You are looking for things that really grab you as powerful or emotional. If it is a true memory you should be able to do the same exercise in the future, and get an event or emotional reaction that is very similar to the first one, and may even develop more detail.
I do not accept it as a past life memory unless it is repeatable 3 times, and grows in detail, and has an emotional effect on me when I reflect on it.
My energy body seems to only store information on big events that had an emotional impact. It also allows really old stuff to degrade. I think this is because old past life stuff is not important enough to justify the effort to retain a record of it.