Thread: Michael Raduga's The Phase?

Hey guys, I'm back.. After a number of terrifying visits to the dentist (I have dentophobia), I'm getting back to LDing and The Phase. Still got a few visits left but it's become less terrifying so I feel I can handle it.. I would not have paused the practice, but I was a total nerve-wreck, impossible to focus on anything, so yeah.. Anyway, since I started again I noticed a troublesome issue: every time I wake up, I wake up while moving, so I don't even get the chance to become semi-conscious before I'm already moving. Has anyone had this problem before, and is there anything to do besides keep trying and hope it doesn't happen? =/

^^Hi Mimi,
I think most of us - if not all - trying DEILD type techniques like the Raduga one, inevitably encounter this problem - last night I was also going for Raduga and had the exact same problem. In his book he mentions that immobility is desirable but not necessary - you should not loose any opportunity and try the technique even if you have moved.
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I actually had one successful attempt after some initial movement.
Furthermore, he suggests that if you keep on trying - every other night of course - you will eventually notice the awakenings much earlier. So, I guess we should just keep on trying!

Originally Posted by SearcherTMR

^^Hi Mimi,
I think most of us - if not all - trying DEILD type techniques like the Raduga one, inevitably encounter this problem - last night I was also going for Raduga and had the exact same problem. In his book he mentions that immobility is desirable but not necessary - you should not loose any opportunity and try the technique even if you have moved.
image.jpg
image.jpg
I actually had one successful attempt after some initial movement.
Furthermore, he suggests that if you keep on trying - every other night of course - you will eventually notice the awakenings much earlier. So, I guess we should just keep on trying!

Ahh, you're right, damn, I keep forgetting important details like this! Thanks for reminding me, I'll keep trying.

I still confused, does Raduga's Technique work or not?

Originally Posted by Suratana

I still confused, does Raduga's Technique work or not?

It's similar to every other technique.. It works for some, if you do it right, chances of success increase.

^^ For me, it worked really great in the beginning but since then i had a few problems and I still can't make it work again...

Btw, I have read the free material from Raduga's new book in Amazon's look inside version and his conclusions were quite interesting: He verifies through his own experience that during the phase you can acquire unknown information, but the belief that you actually leave your body is an entirely different thing (acquiring remote info does not equal leaving your body). He tested the theory repeatedly by trying to pinch and leave physical marks to people while in the phase, but never succeeded...
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So, he concludes that OOBEs and LDs are the same thing (phase) and they happen within the mind - and not out-of-body even though you can receive unknown info while in them (as with Remote Viewing). He also discovered that he could use the phase to heal himself - something that I have also tried myself. Anyway, quite interesting read overall, although a bit long for what he had to say...

Originally Posted by SearcherTMR

^^ For me, it worked really great in the beginning but since then i had a few problems and I still can't make it work again...

Btw, I have read the free material from Raduga's new book in Amazon's look inside version and his conclusions were quite interesting: He verifies through his own experience that during the phase you can acquire unknown information, but the belief that you actually leave your body is an entirely different thing (acquiring remote info does not equal leaving your body). He tested the theory repeatedly by trying to pinch and leave physical marks to people while in the phase, but never succeeded...
image.jpg
So, he concludes that OOBEs and LDs are the same thing (phase) and they happen within the mind - and not out-of-body even though you can receive unknown info while in them (as with Remote Viewing). He also discovered that he could use the phase to heal himself - something that I have also tried myself. Anyway, quite interesting read overall, although a bit long for what he had to say...

How can someone leave physical marks when OBEs are not supposed to take place in physical reality.. Sorry, that doesn't make any sense, even if OBEs are 100% real, you would never be able to interact with physical reality, because you are not in physical reality, that experiment seems very silly to me and doesn't prove anything..

^^ The point is, as Raduga says, that this has been written in many books and has affected many people's beliefs about OBEs - I have also read similar accounts, even that someone has moved light objects, like a pen, during OBEs. So, that's what he proves a lie, and this is quite interesting because this would be the only way to prove that such experiences are real...
Because if OBES are purely psychic and you end up at another dimension-reality only resembling this one (eg the "real time" one that R. Bruce suggests), then what's the difference from a shared dream other than the subjective feeling of separation?
Furthermore, if this is the case, there is no way to prove that OBEs are not dreams beginning with a separation feeling or that you actually leave your body - because body and space might very well have no meaning in this dimension-reality...

I don't know what the people who claimed they interacted with physical reality really experienced, but I highly doubt they actually did it (basic knowledge). It didn't work for Raduga so.. that's his experience. Either he personally couldn't do it or it really is impossible and the people who claim they did it.. god knows what they really did. I don't think it's the only way to prove they are real, I think science will be able to prove and disprove things like this when it becomes more advanced.
"because body and space might very well have no meaning in this dimension-reality" Sorry, there are very few people on the planet who are very experienced with out of body travel, we are complete noobs, I would rather not talk about it like I know things when I'm actually just speculating what sounds good in my mind.

Btw, I'm starting to think that this technique only works in the first few days then it dies off =__= Probably because of the excitement at the beginning that disappears over time.. Shame, I hope this isn't the case and someone made it work long time but this has been my experience.

Btw, I'm starting to think that this technique only works in the first few days then it dies off =__= Probably because of the excitement at the beginning that disappears over time.. Shame, I hope this isn't the case and someone made it work long time but this has been my experience.

Motivation, excitement and faith could explain some part of the success rate that occurs on the beginning, because of some chemical aspects I guess, like the involvement of Norepinephrine.
I guess this makes us more aware of the so precious micro awakenings.

Among those micro awakenings, some are close to a REM window, some are not.
Those who are close to a REM, because we wake up just before the beginning of a REM, or because the micro awakening was during a REM stage, are the one that we can easily transform into WILD/DEILD.

for MEN I have maybe some good news !

I had this idea that we can use a phenomenon that happens to us during REM sleep to recognize the "GOOD" micro awakening (those that we can use in the Raduga's technique with good chances of success).
This "trick" is not only for men, but I guess it is more easy to notice it for a male dreamer, for obvious reasons.

As you probably guessed, I am speaking about nocturnal penis Tumescence

If you train yourself to notice this REM sleep synchronized phenomenon when you wake up, you'll know that you where just in a REM window.
Maybe that if you are STILL on erection, it means that the virtual REM window is still open and that you have good chance to re-enter in a dream by starting the Raduga's cycles.

I let women search if they can use this phenomenon in their way (cause it also happens in different ways to women dreamers)

I have recently used this idea with success, so maybe this tips could help some of you.

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

Btw, I'm starting to think that this technique only works in the first few days then it dies off =__=

Although that's also my experience, I don't think it has to be so. I agree that the initial excitement helps notice the awakenings early as my latest issue is exactly this: noticing them only after I have turned around. Nevertheless I believe that with the right mindset and some patience, I will be able to do this again. I feel that it's a method that does not rely solely on excitement.

Originally Posted by Kaan

for MEN I have maybe some good news !

Thanks for this Kaan!
I have looked it up and it seems that there is some good correlation between NPT and REM, so this makes sense. The question is how easy it is to actually notice it during the first precious seconds, make your conclusions and start the technique in time...

@Kaan, true, those factors likely very well influence the huge success rate of many people when they first start practicing this technique. Still, I think that with enough persistence, noticing those precious micro awakenings is possible on a regular basis.

Was wondering if the amount of sleep has much influence on this ability to notice the awakenings.. I mean, one of the key things required is awareness, obviously, but what if you didn't get enough sleep? Consider someone who slept 4-5 hours before trying the phase and someone who slept 6-7 hours, would the former have less of a chance because he would be too tired/sleepy thus lacking awareness that would be used to notice the micro awakenings?..

Originally Posted by SearcherTMR

^^ The point is, as Raduga says, that this has been written in many books and has affected many people's beliefs about OBEs - I have also read similar accounts, even that someone has moved light objects, like a pen, during OBEs. So, that's what he proves a lie, and this is quite interesting because this would be the only way to prove that such experiences are real...
Because if OBES are purely psychic and you end up at another dimension-reality only resembling this one (eg the "real time" one that R. Bruce suggests), then what's the difference from a shared dream other than the subjective feeling of separation?
Furthermore, if this is the case, there is no way to prove that OBEs are not dreams beginning with a separation feeling or that you actually leave your body - because body and space might very well have no meaning in this dimension-reality...

I'd like to make it clear that nothing Raduga has personally experienced and concluded about the phase state actually proves anything that negates what other explorers have experienced and concluded. His conclusions remain a possibility among many others.

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

Was wondering if the amount of sleep has much influence on this ability to notice the awakenings..

I think that it definitely has, and while reviewing my successful attempts, I have noticed that I had slept more than I sleep these last days and also had more awakenings and longer WBTB periods. Another thing that I noticed was that his instructions were fresh in my mind and I followed everything to the letter - while lately I say that I am trying his technique but I am actually not sticking to the details at all...I have to change that!

Originally Posted by VinceField

I'd like to make it clear that nothing Raduga has personally experienced and concluded about the phase state actually proves anything that negates what other explorers have experienced and concluded. His conclusions remain a possibility among many others.

Hi Vince,
well, to me Raduga seems quite honest in what he says, while other explorers might have exaggerated the reports of their experiences - and in some books there are definite elements of exaggeration - that you might spot even better than I do...
Of course that's my own best guess - but it would be interesting to hear if you yourself have actually interacted in any verifiable way with the physical reality while in an OBE, or you simply believe that some of these accounts are from honest authors...

Originally Posted by SearcherTMR

I think that it definitely has, and while reviewing my successful attempts, I have noticed that I had slept more than I sleep these last days and also had more awakenings and longer WBTB periods. Another thing that I noticed was that his instructions were fresh in my mind and I followed everything to the letter - while lately I say that I am trying his technique but I am actually not sticking to the details at all...I have to change that!

Interesting, and good to know, I also should re-read the instructions and try to follow everything precisely. Some more sleep wouldn't hurt either.

Btw, is it just me or the forum has become a lot less active? =/ I mean ever since I came back a few days ago, the most popular subforums, General Lucid Discussion and Attaining Lucidity barely have 1 new post in the current day, everything else is from yesterday and before, there used to be a lot more active threads in a day and activity overall, what happened here?

Originally Posted by SearcherTMR

Hi Vince,
well, to me Raduga seems quite honest in what he says, while other explorers might have exaggerated the reports of their experiences - and in some books there are definite elements of exaggeration - that you might spot even better than I do...
Of course that's my own best guess - but it would be interesting to hear if you yourself have actually interacted in any verifiable way with the physical reality while in an OBE, or you simply believe that some of these accounts are from honest authors...

No, I've never interacted with physical reality that I know of. My point was that Raduga doesn't prove anything about anyone else's experiences (in response to your claim that he proves the other accounts are lies). He simply presents his opinion. It has nothing to do with my own experience, simply using logic and reason.

^^ Sorry for my late response - I rarely have access to wifi these days due to travel.
Well, I disagree with that, but that is just my own point of view.
I believe that when you read about something that is not very credible to begin with and then you repeatedly try this and disprove it, you can be quite certain that the original description was not true. Of course there might be unknown parameters such as not doing the experiment correctly but in regards to interacting with physical reality, I think that Raduga's experiments are quite enough to disprove it - as it is a highly unlikely possibility in the first place. Again, this is just my point of view, and any other opinions are of course equally valid!

Most philosophers would disagree with the idea that all opinions are equally valid, particularly in this case. What this really boils down to is a matter of using solid logic and reasoning. One person not being able to do something does not prove that something is impossible, it only proves that that person is not able to do it.

^^Ok. I don't see any point in getting further this discussion. This is highly unlikely to be possible but I could agree that no definitive proof exists that it is impossible, so anyone can stick to our own opinions about this - equally valid or not.

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

How can someone leave physical marks when OBEs are not supposed to take place in physical reality

Energy can effect our physical body, Not sure if it could leave marks though. When we are trying to astral project we feel the subtle energies while we are still aware, Vibrations, Temperature rise/drop and so on. To a certain degree our body can be effected by the subtle energies.

Originally Posted by JoshMcNaught

Energy can effect our physical body, Not sure if it could leave marks though. When we are trying to astral project we feel the subtle energies while we are still aware, Vibrations, Temperature rise/drop and so on. To a certain degree our body can be effected by the subtle energies.

It can indeed but it would sure take a ton of it to leave physical marks. Though this topic reminded me of cases of alleged ghost or demonic hauntings where the entities would leave marks on people's skin.. creepy, interesting, perhaps fake, perhaps not..

Originally Posted by SearcherTMR

^^Ok. I don't see any point in getting further this discussion. This is highly unlikely to be possible but I could agree that no definitive proof exists that it is impossible, so anyone can stick to our own opinions about this - equally valid or not.

I agree that having a direct physical effect on the physical world from the out-of-body state is unlikely. The most notable case that I know of is of Robert Monroe, who allegedly pinched his friend while out of body and apparently it was felt by that person and actually left a bruise! I don't imagine many people know if this is true or not, but I don't take the man to be a liar. Regarding Raduga's honesty and genuineness compared to other authors, there is actually much more negative talk about him than probably any other prominent out-of-body explorer that I know of, particularly that many of his claims are fabricated and he is mainly interested in generating business and revenue, although I have no personal opinion on the matter aside from the fact that his techniques work, and that is all I care about. I initially spoke up because I don't believe it is beneficial to jump to conclusions without proper supporting evidence. Peace to you my friend.

Originally Posted by VinceField

I agree that having a direct physical effect on the physical world from the out-of-body state is unlikely.

The most notable case that I know of is of Robert Monroe, who allegedly pinched his friend while out of body and apparently it was felt by that person and actually left a bruise!

I don't imagine many people know if this is true or not, but I don't take the man to be a liar.

Regarding Raduga's honesty and genuineness compared to other authors, there is actually much more negative talk about him than probably any other prominent out-of-body explorer that I know of, particularly that many of his claims are fabricated and he is mainly interested in generating business and revenue, although I have no personal opinion on the matter aside from the fact that his techniques work, and that is all I care about.

I initially spoke up because I don't believe it is beneficial to jump to conclusions without proper supporting evidence. Peace to you my friend.

Look what YAD did. I met YAD on another dream site in 2008. He has an account here on Dreamviews and pops-in to keep us updated on his research from time to time. Here is his profile:

★

http://www.dreamviews.com/members/yad/

★

About YAD (from his Dreamviews profile)

LD Count: 3000+

I have been active in the realm of lucid dreaming for over 23 years. I was recently interviewed by Robert Wagoner, the President for the International Association for the Study of Dreams.

Here is his interview with Robert Waggoner (transcribed in full)

♡

http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...dy-dreams.html

♡

YAD's real name is Ian Wilson. Here YAD Tells how he drew a triangle on a dream character's forehead. Then, in real waking-life, the red triangle appeared on his friends forhead a couple of weeks later.

♥

August Special Edition 08/08 by Unraveling Secrets | Paranormal Podcasts

♥

Under the radio clip:

On this month's Unraveling the Secrets Special Edition, our UK correspondent, Anthony Peake, interviews Canadian lucid dreamer, Ian Wilson.

Spread the word wherever you can as promises to be a classic interview. Ian offers proof of his ability, too.

We'll have photos. (!!!)

He can change reality by acting on his dreams, sometimes even while he's still dreaming. (...)

You only need to listen from the 10 minute point to the 24 minute point.

10:30 to 12:12 point, his first LD
16:30 point, precognitive lucid dreaming

21:40 to 24:00 point, the precognitive, lucid, triangle manipulation. (WOW!!!)

The most advanced Lucid Dreamers now have to work in "closed" and "totally Private" international dream forums (that cannot be found by search engines, like Google) because spammers keep flooding with spam and hackers keep trying to bring down the open websites.

But

In 2008 when the International Association for the Study of Dreams (IASD) forum was active, I got to know Ian Wilson very well. He is legit. He can precognitivly lucid dream and effect the waking-life future.

Here is YAD, Ian Wilson on the left and the interviewer on right

Forum code:*

Originally Posted by VinceField

... I don't believe it is beneficial to jump to conclusions without proper supporting evidence...

Ok. I took a remote perspective on this conversation and I realized that indeed i reached to a conclusion without proper evidence. Raduga's experiences are not proof of anything - just his experience. Nevertheless, regarding the particular possibility, I have read Monroe's description and I also know that many more exist - like the one Ebb posted. But I am still not convince that they have actually done it, as it is quite easy to exaggerate experiences (we all have done so from time to time) in order to make people's jaws drop (as Raduga puts it). On the other hand it is certainly not impossible (actually nothing is impossible) but as Karl Sagan kept saying: extraordinarily claims need extraordinary proof... and anecdotal stories are definitely not sufficient proof.
I will personally be convinced that it can be done if either:
1. A sufficiently controlled experiment is undertaken and proves this
2. I have personal experience - that will be sufficient enough, but of course only for me.
Anyway, we are again going off-topic, and honestly this is quite normal as no one has new successfull experiences to share...
P.s. I might be off-net for a few days due to work.