Thread: Exploring Delta Sleep

Interestingly, I was listening to binaural beats last night while trying to fall asleep. I think the one I was listening to was delta. Anyway within like 2 minutes of closing my eyes I started seeing dark swirling colors that kept getting darker until everything quieted down and faded to black.
I know exactly what you mean by being in the void psionik. Its like asking and knowing at the same time. I think its the most profound feeling I ever . very beautiful and enlightening.

^^ And there it is.

And there what is? Are you calling me an it?

^^ Oops! Sometimes something so clear and simple in my head just fails to survive the trip to print.

What I meant was this: "And there, in Kadie's example, is what I was talking about in my OP and on this thread; that brief example clearly illustrated both the experience of lucidly exploring Delta Sleep and the value of doing so."

... I guess I should have used my words; sorry!

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Oops! Sometimes something so clear and simple in my head just fails to survive the trip to print.

What I meant was this: "And there, in Kadie's example, is what I was talking about in my OP and on this thread; that brief example clearly illustrated both the experience of lucidly exploring Delta Sleep and the value of doing so."

... I guess I should have used my words; sorry!

Don't be so hard on yourself, it was crystal clear to me! I think kadie was just having a blonde moment.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Oops! Sometimes something so clear and simple in my head just fails to survive the trip to print.

What I meant was this: "And there, in Kadie's example, is what I was talking about in my OP and on this thread; that brief example clearly illustrated both the experience of lucidly exploring Delta Sleep and the value of doing so."

... I guess I should have used my words; sorry!

No worries there Sageous. I thought that was what you meant, was just looking for a little clarification.
However as for Vincefields derogatory, ignorant and assumptive comment. I must ask WTFDYTYA? lol. jk

Originally Posted by kadie

No worries there Sageous. I thought that was what you meant, was just looking for a little clarification.
However as for Vincefields derogatory, ignorant and assumptive comment. I must ask WTFDYTYA? lol. jk

Hahaha I didn't assume you were blonde, just thought it would be less offensive than calling it a "girl moment."

Lol. Your batting 1000 there Vince.

I had a bit of a strange experience last night. Not sure whether it was actual delta or some type of dream (I've certainly had dreams about exploring delta before). However, this one occurred at a time when I definitely don't normally have REM dreams. My recollection of it isn't that great, so I can't say a whole lot.

I initially went to sleep for the night and woke up about 90 minutes later to record notes about my first dream, which is pretty usual for me. I went back to sleep and eventually found myself awake around 2h:20m or 2h:30m into sleep, which was unusual (normally the next REM/wake-up is quite a bit later, usually around 3h in). I was a bit startled to discover that I had been lying awake there zoned out and daydreaming about things for who knows how long (at least several minutes) before actually realizing I was awake. Then I suddenly had a vague recollection that something had apparently happened at some point after going back to sleep at the 1h:30m point and before waking up here.

It felt somewhat similar to the brief conscious periods of light NREM that I occasionally experience immediately before or after a normal dream. Maybe it was a bit different (there seemed to be something about it I wanted to remember but couldn't). But I have the impression that it went on for an unusually long period of time, though how long I don't know. I seem to remember recognizing the state and believing that I was in some sort of conscious NREM again, perhaps wondering if I might be in delta sleep now since I had been in it so long. I believe I attempted to observe my thoughts or state of mind and compare them to the reports I had read in this thread. I seemed not to notice anything obviously unusual about them but decided that my mind was possibly exhibiting a tendency to remain particularly still or “blank”.

My memory is very fuzzy, and I don't remember how the event began or ended. It also appears that I remember my thoughts during the experience more clearly than the experience itself.

^^ Sounds like Delta to me, Travis; thanks for sharing!

One thing in particular that seems to stick out to me right now was the apparent timelessness of the episode. I initially attributed it as being merely an artifact of not recalling it well, but I'm starting to wonder now. Maybe next time it happens I'll recall it a bit better and have a clearer idea.

I have been noticing more of my sleep time that I think involves a NREM stages and possibly Delta on 3 main separate occasions - during the night, during Wild Dive after wbtb and during nap in the daytime.
With each time there is a similar pattern of a open, spacious stillness that comes quite instantaneously at a point after thoughts and tiredness has gone on for a bit then subsided...if I manage to get here without falling asleep I feel refreshed and recharged...
I have been enjoying this 'healing' for some years on and off but I am now wanting to use it very consciously in-order to strengthen my ability to Go in to a LD - in particular Wild but ultimately any way of LDing is fine

Today, this afternoon I put on some white noise and earplugs in darkness for 45 mins and went to this place - I used White noise as a way of helping me keep an eye on a point where I may not hear it and to see how I could relax with it as you mention in another thread to see if there is a point where you don't hear it anymore but staying full of self awareness.... Is this a good strengthening exercise do you think? Any advise

The only thing is I have read something Ophilea Blue wrote where she said while she slipped out of her body during a wild she could still hear her fan clearly and another time she could hear the tv the whole time too - so that makes me think it's not sure that the sound will go as one goes into different stages of NREM and into Delta and into rem ...

Can you give some more advise on exercises to strengthen self awareness as one moves through relaxation and possibly the stillness of NREM in prep and in making sure one is going in the direction of LD?
Thank you

Travis:

Originally Posted by Travis E.

One thing in particular that seems to stick out to me right now was the apparent timelessness of the episode. I initially attributed it as being merely an artifact of not recalling it well, but I'm starting to wonder now. Maybe next time it happens I'll recall it a bit better and have a clearer idea.

A feeling of timelessness or the presence of eternity (if that's even a thing) are definitely things I've come across when in Delta... such a feeling, perhaps by its nature, can be very difficult to recall, though, because your mind needs to attach it to something "timely" to it in order to form a memory, and that timeliness sort of defeats the essential moment of the experience... such is the nature of transcendental events, I guess.

If you do manage to remember this, or any other Delta experiences, your report of it would be most welcome!

Patience:

Originally Posted by Patience108

I have been noticing more of my sleep time that I think involves a NREM stages and possibly Delta on 3 main separate occasions - during the night, during Wild Dive after wbtb and during nap in the daytime.
With each time there is a similar pattern of a open, spacious stillness that comes quite instantaneously at a point after thoughts and tiredness has gone on for a bit then subsided...if I manage to get here without falling asleep I feel refreshed and recharged...
I have been enjoying this 'healing' for some years on and off but I am now wanting to use it very consciously in-order to strengthen my ability to Go in to a LD - in particular Wild but ultimately any way of LDing is fine.

What a nice feeling, huh? I have to ask: do you really want to cloud or eclipse that special time with a push to LD? Something to think about, I think. But:

Today, this afternoon I put on some white noise and earplugs in darkness for 45 mins and went to this place - I used White noise as a way of helping me keep an eye on a point where I may not hear it and to see how I could relax with it as you mention in another thread to see if there is a point where you don't hear it anymore but staying full of self awareness.... Is this a good strengthening exercise do you think? Any advise?

Probably. Since the sudden absence of sound can be a very encouraging thing during a WILD, because it means your body has fallen asleep, listening for the absence of white noise could be a good practice. I see it as more of a tool than a strengthening exercise, though, because you really don't need to develop any special skills to prepare yourself to hear that lack of noise. One caveat, though: it can be very easy, because of expectation, to dream that the noise has ended, so be sure to do a RC when you note its absence. Also:

The only thing is I have read something Ophelia Blue wrote where she said while she slipped out of her body during a wild she could still hear her fan clearly and another time she could hear the tv the whole time too - so that makes me think it's not sure that the sound will go as one goes into different stages of NREM and into Delta and into rem ...

That post of mine that you reference was, I believe, in response to an individual's question and experience, and your (and Ophelia's) results can vary . That said, keep in mind that there is a substantial difference between sensory activity during early sleep stage Delta/REM than during LD's when they generally occur. Many LD's tend to happen when a dreamer is very close to a waking state, so it stands to reason (and, BTW, my personal experience) that they'll hear that fan during, say, a late-cycle LD. Also, yes, should you be able to maintain self-awareness throughout the night, you will indeed notice your white noise (and your breathing, and your body movements, and your sheets, etc, etc) coming and going as you slip from period to period, Still, I'm pretty sure that when you first fall asleep early in the cycle, you will note that the white noise can no longer be heard.

So: use the "disappearing noise" trick as a tool to confirm that your body has fallen asleep, but trust that confirmation only early in your sleep cycle. Later on, do an RC, and don't be surprised if you can still hear it as background noise throughout a late-cycle LD.

Can you give some more advise on exercises to strengthen self awareness as one moves through relaxation and possibly the stillness of NREM in prep and in making sure one is going in the direction of LD?

Sadly, I don't have time right now to address this one properly (I'll try to come back later with more), but suffice it to say that I would suggest instead that you keep your Delta exploration separate from your LD process, so you can get the most out of both. That said, If you are lucid during Delta, your self-awareness is probably in fairly excellent shape, and you are heading in the direction of a LD anyway... you've already done the mental heavy lifting.

All that is needed is to carry that lucidity into a LD, which you could accelerate by working on forming your dream, perhaps by focusing on a small detail of the dream you expect to have, and enlarge that detail after it appears until it encompasses an entire dream scene (and your dreaming mind is engaged). For instance, let's say you want to spend some time lounging on a tropical beach: pick an easy shape that would be on that beach, like a palm tree or towel, and visualize that object. When you have formed the object, fill in details around it -- sand, sun, other bathers, water, etc) until the scene is complete, and your dreaming mind hopefully gets the hint and takes over. Again, I don't have time right now, so I'll have to leave it there...

Thanks again Sageous as I am not LDing all the time just yet and my Self Awareness is still a bit from excellence my experience of Delta is most probably in its baby stages too - thanks for giving it thought tho I appreciate your advice

I have found that patience can take anyone to the doorway of Delta sleep. ( Well me anyway )
On an evening, around 5pm, I often have an hours nap.
Later, when it is time to sleep, I do not feel as tired, and can take my time concentrating/preparing, without falling asleep too quickly.
Dark room - No disturbances - Comfortable position on my side, or back - Light covers
It is simply a matter of closing my eyes, and looking at the afterimages of light.
Lots of random lights for the first few minuits, then the centre of my vision begins to fade to darkness.
Probably the cells in my retina have become accustomed to the dark, and have stopped firing.
However, the outer cells are sill active. This gives me a black spot surrounded by dim light.
As more cells relax the centre dark spot seems to grow.
Then it is just a matter of keeping my attention on the dark.
Some times I can go through, and others I just fall asleep.

This method needs no visualisations, or skills, just lots of patience.
Hope this helps anyone trying to enter Delta without using lucid dreaming techniques

I have been away for a while, so this approach may have already been posted.

Cheers,
Phil

Went to bed at around 9 pm after reading about Reverse Blinking. I would like to try give it a shot although I am not sure if I understand how to do it correctly but can see some folk get great results.

So laying there after taking some time to relax and I start to blink ( I think this means open my eyes and close them again quickly but in one place I read you have to open your eyes long enough to focus on something ...) my eyes open every 5 seconds or so... it was hard to count for 5 secs at same time but I am hoping it gets more natural next time I went on for quite a while like this and my eyes ,more than anything , started to get very very dry almost painfully dry.

So I decided to stop and relax - HI was strong and I tried to look past it instead of straight on - it goes on for a bit and calms down - I slip into a restful/sleep.

I am suddenly awake/lucid within in a calm space, I think ,recognise as Nrem/Delta? I sense a strong profound presence and feel I have been communicating for some time in my sleep unconsciously...Now i am fully here tho ;

' Who are you?' I ask

' How do you know I am here, most people don't notice me.' The voice says

' I can feel your presence.' I answer

' I am the Universe, I am everything.' The voice tells me

' ................................' I am in silence for a while with the presence - trying to make sense of what was just said to me - I have a wonderful wholeness feeling about me.

I feel my waking life coming back to my physical body in bed. I look at the clock its 10 pm -it feels like I have been sleeping a long time....

I try the RB for a while again and feel myself drift into a relaxed state once again - the presence is there again but not strong enough for conversation...I sleep .
I Wake up this morning and cant help wondering about the presence ? Also because I Have been aware of a pressence of someone i have ben speaking to in my dreams for a long time - its often as i am waking up or going to sleep - but i never got to ask who it was befor
Has anyone used RB - got any tips?

^^ No tips from me, Patience, except maybe that you would probably do fine without attempting that reversing-blinking technique, which in my mind has always seemed a bit silly.

It seems you had a very interesting experience regardless; I hope you'll tell us more about that "presence" in the future -- though I do hope you take care to abandon all expectation, and let that presence form on its own. It could just be an echo of you, perhaps a little unconscious noise as bits of you struggle to make sense of being aware in Delta; which in itself is extremely interesting... or it could of course be something else altogether, but be sure to let experience and not expectation do the defining (I'm not sure the actual universe speaks English)...

^ No tips from me, Patience, except maybe that you would probably do fine without attempting that reversing-blinking technique, which in my mind has always seemed a bit silly.

So what's all the fuss to do with RB about - nothing ?

]It could just be an echo of you, perhaps a little unconscious noise as bits of you struggle to make sense of being aware in Delta; which in itself is extremely interesting... or it could of course be something else altogether, but be sure to let experience and not expectation do the defining (I'm not sure the actual universe speaks English)..

Sageous. thanks - will do

You mean you havn't met the ' Universe ' he he he

Originally Posted by Patience108

So what's all the fuss to do with RB about - nothing ?

I would say so. Sometimes things just become popular because they sound cool -- and the popularity grows because people just don't like reporting that the cool stuff doesn't work (beyond initial placebo effect, of course) or, worse, they report that it does work from some need to belong. Or I could just be a cynical old bastard, I suppose!

You mean you havn't met the ' Universe ' he he he

Not that I know of, and certainly not one that speaks to me personally, in English.

... There is a lot of depth to explore in Delta, Patience, of that I have no doubt; just be careful not to obscure that as yet undiscovered depth with imagery formed from existing expectation...just sayin'...

Thanks for sayin - So how, would you advise, does one best explore that depth in delta and also the depth in LD ... What are the first steps for some one like me, always asking questions about reality etc, in exploring that 'undiscovered depth ' ��

^^ I would say the first step is to simply be open.

Expect nothing. Ask the questions, but try not to insert answers; just let the experience happen, and sort out what may or may not have been going on later, after you are awake and have recorded everything in your DJ.

Hopefully this doesn't contradict things I said earlier on this thread (I'm too lazy to look), but I think the best thing to do during early exploration of Delta is simply get there. Learn to hold your presence in Delta, get used to existing in a place that seems to defy (or rather negate) existence, and let the void of Delta become an accessible goal. Then, once you are comfortable with yourself being in such a different neighborhood of your Self, go ahead and ask those questions... however, when you ask, consider avoiding specific, expectation-haunted questions like "Who are you?" (more in a sec), but instead open yourself to answers to questions that were never asked; those answers might just be more interesting!

The trouble with asking questions about reality during potentially transcendental journeys like some (not all!) made in Delta is that those questions often come with built-in answers based on expectations. If you think in terms of reality or esoteric stuff like "undiscovered depths" during your time in a place that might lack both, you could find yourself attaching abstract explanations to define the reality of what you are experiencing [edit: Did I say "Undiscovered depths? I did, didn't I? Well, I'm sure I meant to intellectually consider those depths during waking life, and not during the dream.] Those abstracts could then convert to handy metaphors with which you are familiar, but also which you just summoned from memory, and not the void. Delta is at its foundations nothing, a sort of blank slate on which to attach new things: new experiences, new imaginary journeys, new feelings, perhaps even new communications or spiritual encounters, all of which might defy anything you already know or expect. Let that stuff in, openly, for a while before you ask any questions or expect any answers.

As a quick aside to your earlier post, keep in mind also that the presence you feel communicating with you might, simply, be you. I know that is a bit mundane, but look at it this way: if that presence is some profound external entity, you will communicate eventually, no questions asked; if that presence is "merely" a profound aspect of your own mind, you may learn some interesting things about yourself...either way seems a win/win situation to me, but neither will occur if you allow yourself to abstractly define the questions and answers from your own conscious expectations.

tl;dr: During your early dives into Delta, don't ask anything, or expect any answers; just be open to whatever you find, and leave the esoterica for waking life. Later, when you've got your void-legs firmly under you, ask away but do so without expecting any particular answer.

So if your experience at the start of sleep is not void like but more OBE/astral projection like with full visuals and a dream body, is this in the brief theta stage preceding delta?

^^ It shouldn't be.

Full visuals and a dream body seem extremely unlikely during normal stage 1 sleep. That is the established rule, anyway: your experience could be an exception to the rule... and with dreams exceptions seem more common than rules, so that could be the case.

There is one, more established exception to this rule that you might consider: People who have some form of narcolepsy tend to begin dreaming immediately upon falling asleep. This is the only case I can think of right now where the first stages of sleep (including Delta, or stage 3) are skipped and REM begins immediately. I am also pretty sure that narcolepsy comes in more than one form, so you could have it without experiencing the more familiar symptom of falling asleep suddenly during waking-life.

Regardless, it could just be that your sleep cycle begins unusually with a bit of REM; this sounds like a good excuse for you to break another rule and attempt WILD's at bedtime!

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ It shouldn't be.

Full visuals and a dream body seem extremely unlikely during normal stage 1 sleep. That is the established rule, anyway: your experience could be an exception to the rule... and with dreams exceptions seem more common than rules, so that could be the case.

There is one, more established exception to this rule that you might consider: People who have some form of narcolepsy tend to begin dreaming immediately upon falling asleep. This is the only case I can think of right now where the first stages of sleep (including Delta, or stage 3) are skipped and REM begins immediately. I am also pretty sure that narcolepsy comes in more than one form, so you could have it without experiencing the more familiar symptom of falling asleep suddenly during waking-life.

Regardless, it could just be that your sleep cycle begins unusually with a bit of REM; this sounds like a good excuse for you to break another rule and attempt WILD's at bedtime!

I only had the experience once with my first LD, before I had read more extensively on the topic. I started relaxation and then had the buzzing, vibrating sensations. I rode these out without having any predetermined destination or goals in mind, just opened up to the experience. I ended up in a place with physical qualities, although pretty boring, and populated with people. I was able to look down at my body as I walked. I even noticed one of my shoelaces was undone and tied them up (I had no idea what to do with myself). The whole experience only lasted a few minutes if that. When I began reading more into it I just assumed I did what OBE/AP enthusiasts do all the time. They often take their journeys at the start of the night so I've always been uncertain of what phase of sleep this occurs in.