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    Thread: Could Physical Reality really be a Dream?

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      Thumbs up Could Physical Reality really be a Dream?

      Could Physical Reality really be a Dream?

      Are you having a dream that lasts a lifetime? Can reality be universal dream of a cosmic mind? What if the answer is yes?

      If this reality was some type of dream, then there should be some evidence which shows a relationship between the dream world and the waking world. The first red-flag that comes to mind is directly connected to something known as “Precognitive Dreaming”. The idea of precognition spans the written record and Aristotle in 350B.C.E wrote a paper entitled, “On Prophesying by Dreams” The Internet Classics Archive | On Prophesying by Dreams by Aristotle where he debated the notion that people in his time were describing having these types of dreams.

      Deja Vu which is a very common type experience which most people have, is a feeling that comes with a type of deja vu aura where new settings, events and circumstances bring a strong sense of familiarity as if you had been there before. What is not so widely known about the deja phenomena is many people link the source of memory which brings about the familiarity to something they dreamed about in the past. For a comprehensive list of precognitive dream types and examples and evidence I recommend reading my paper, “Theory of Precognitive Dreams” which is open source and freely available on-line.

      Frequency studies as mentioned in that paper predict statistically that you could already be one of those types of people who already have first-person experiences with dreams that come true. If science can finally answer this age old phenomena of precognitive dreams; then we will see the first use-case where dreams and reality have a relationship which will help reveal this covert relationship between dreams and this reality.

      The next red-flag comes from experiments in quantum mechanics which show that our reality is not exactly as physical as we believe it to be. When physicists first discovered particle/wave duality, this caused quite a stir in the physics community. What this means is sub-atomic particles could behave like a wave, or like a particle based on certain conditions.

      When an electron is not being measured or observed it creates an interference pattern which is like a ripple in water that creates the wave pattern or interference pattern. When observed it behaves as physical particles.
      “Quantum Theory Demonstrated: Observation Affects Reality”

      “In a study reported in the February 26 issue of Nature (Vol. 391, pp. 871-874), researchers at the Weizmann Institute of Science have now conducted a highly controlled experiment demonstrating how a beam of electrons is affected by the act of being observed. The experiment revealed that the greater the amount of “watching,” the greater the observer’s influence on what actually takes place.”

      If you thought it was just the sub-atomic particle that behaved this way, an entire molecule of Carbon atoms which form the Carbon-60 molecule known as a buckyball also shows interference patterns.
      “Wave-particle duality seen in carbon-60 molecules”

      “The Vienna team sent a collimated beam of carbon-60 molecules through a slit made of silicon nitride and detected the interference pattern by ionizing the molecules with a laser and then counting the ions.”
      What determines when a particle or atom should be have as a wave-form or a solid state is one of the mind-boggling questions for Physics. One of the answers to this new problem comes from Physicist Tom Campbell who worked for Nasa and the Department of Defense. He describes the collapse of wave-function as a requirement only when the larger-system renders the particle because we exist in a Virtual Reality. His theory which is extensive and covers more than just the virtual reality theory describes that in a virtual reality, the computer doesn’t need to render all the data on the hard-drive so to speak, just the data that is being observed. This means when we are observing a moment in time/space only the information required to render out the experience is being rendered into particles. To bring you up to speed on this theory here is a link to his youtube channel and videos. Tom Campbell - YouTube

      The idea that we are living in a virtual reality is also described by many other mathematicians and physicists such as Nick Bolstrom, Brian Whitworth and Mark Wheeler to name a few. This has spawned a new branch of physics called digital physics and a theory called simulation theory.

      ---

      Read More: Could Physical Reality really be a Dream? | A World of Precognitive Dreams - YouAreDreaming.org

      Well I've been on Hiatus from the forum and have been very busy writing a third book on dreams. Thought I would share this article I wrote for discussion as we often look at dreaming as a mind-generated phenomena at sleep and yet never consider the implications if our waking life itself is a type of dream world.

      This article examines that idea in more depth... and looks at the possibility that we are living in a dream that lasts a lifetime.

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      If physical reality was a dream and we were dream characters wouldn't the laws of physics be broken more? In dreams we can create things but we can't keep everything in order. HonestIy, I would be more convinced if the law of gravity was broken.Like if people were flying with just their minds. Also, If the world was a dream of a higher mind that person would have to wake up at some point. Its kind of weird to think about cause it seems possible but the word dream still doesn't fit our reality in my opinion. Even if there are questionable things I would just call it exceptions.
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      Quote Originally Posted by DawnEye11 View Post
      If physical reality was a dream and we were dream characters wouldn't the laws of physics be broken more? In dreams we can create things but we can't keep everything in order. HonestIy, I would be more convinced if the law of gravity was broken.Like if people were flying with just their minds. Also, If the world was a dream of a higher mind that person would have to wake up at some point. Its kind of weird to think about cause it seems possible but the word dream still doesn't fit our reality in my opinion. Even if there are questionable things I would just call it exceptions.
      Where this model of reality starts to make sense stems from what we know about simulated reality theory. If we look at face value what dreams are; they are simulations of pseudo-virtual reality. That means when we are in a dream world, the trees, the sky, the dream characters are all simulations rendered into a third dimensional view. We know or at least we should know that dreams are organized by thoughts which "program" the feedback interface or mind-generated computer screen which allows us to observe the dream content self-similar to how we observe our physical life via sight et all.

      So from that model, the mind renders thoughts onto a virtual holodeck or screen which we the observer/dreamer then interfaces with. The same holds true from the physical model that our body takes in sensory information from five physical senses and the brain processes this information and renders the data into a virtual simulation of reality.

      This is very easy to test and see in action. To see that your mind is rendering data onto a virtual holoscreen in the mind just close your eyes. What we observe as reality is a rendered by-product of information gathering via the senses, and information processing via the brain.

      The mechanics of this is very self-similar to how computers render 3D video games using frame-rates to process data to render the first frame, the flip the frame into a view. Process data on the next frame and flip the final rendered product into a view ... repeat and we have our sense of chronological time/space even though the space we see inside our mind is all virtual and simulated space.

      Both dreams and physical reality render this way on this virtual holoscreen of the mind. Where a computer has a physical monitor to render data into a view, the mind creates the computer screen virtually which is an impressive feat in and of itself. And it does this also during the act of dreaming during sleep. Everything we will ever experience is rendered on this mind-generated reality screen. It has been called the Cartesian Theater by Rene Descartes, fits in with Plato's Cave allegory and recently dubbed the Bohmian IMAX by Anthony Peake, aka BIMAX. It is a very fundamental aspect of our awareness and we need it to function in any state of reality physical and non-physical in order to have valuable feedback.

      Everything that is rendered there is a composition of thought; even our physical sensory perceptions transform from objective data into a thought-based rendering of perception.

      No consider this fact in terms of simulation theory. In order for a simulation to occur, it requires a datastream which is information that needs to be processed by a computer and rendered into a view so the observer can view that data in a meaningful way. In our case, the computer is the mind and if you need me to, I can go into how the mind functions like a computer based on actual research related to the prefontal cortex and basal ganglia, not to mention within each neuron.

      When we sleep at night, the datastream that renders into a view is organized by our thoughts. Thus our thoughts produce information that simulate dream reality and you can test this again and again during sleep.

      When we are awake, the objective datastream comes in from the "outside world" and is gathered by the senses, converted into electrical signals to the brain, which encodes them further into bio-photons in the neuron and back into electrical signals from the synapses and from that the mind renders in the same place as our dreams, a simulation of reality.

      Two different datastreams, one physical and one non-physical... only one area that this information renders for our awareness to observe. Everything it observes "there" is the result of <b>information processing<b> and is a <b><i>simulation</i></b>. Again to prove your observed reality is being simulated by the brain just close your eyes and you'll see in action the mechanics at work.

      What have we learned... we need a datastream that is processed by the brain in order for the brain to render a simulation of that data and we call that reality.

      Dreams are a result of thought programming the datastream, our physical world so far is unknown what quantum information actually is, is it wave-fuctions, a type of computer code? Science has not yet answered what the quantum field is, but it behaves as a datastream as evident in the double-slit experiment and particle/wave duality where particles can be either wave-function (data) or solid particles (rendered data).

      So we have an objective world that functions as a datastream where wave-function collapses [renders] into particles under observation (because data needs to be rendered into a view when accessed)...

      What is there to say that the datastream of reality isn't thought and our perceptions of reality as rendered in our Cartesian Theater the final product of information processing self-similar to how we dream.

      What if the datastream is just a form of communication from one larger consciousness system to a smaller part of itself?

      Physical reality being a dream is not entirely a far-fetch unrealistic concept as it might seem, once you understand simulation theory and how information processing plays a role in our experience of reality.

      My argument is exactly that... this is a dream just a little more hi-fidelity than our sleeping dream due to the collective source programming the datastream of thought which we are rendering.

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      OK...I kind of understand what your saying a bit more. But even if the brain projects reality like it does dreams, for the higher mind to be dreaming the higher mind would have to be asleep. Its annoying to think about it that way. What purpose would it serve? For me its like crossing the line...I mean...wouldn't that higher mind have told us by now that this is all a dream? If this was a forever dream that the higher mind made to escape their own reality than I think that would be weird. I think there's no reason for the higher mind to hide it from us. Its just confusing but w/e reason there is this is still my reality and the rest of those in this world. Reality could probably be a higher mind's dream but than again our world could be the only one existing. But I really do think the higher mind knows by now if there are more worlds out there. If there were more than one higher mind than why wouldn' it be known by now? So many questions....but Im Ok with not knowing the answers now. ^^' Its so much to take in when you first think about it.
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      Quote Originally Posted by DawnEye11 View Post
      OK...I kind of understand what your saying a bit more. But even if the brain projects reality like it does dreams, for the higher mind to be dreaming the higher mind would have to be asleep. Its annoying to think about it that way. What purpose would it serve? For me its like crossing the line...I mean...wouldn't that higher mind have told us by now that this is all a dream? If this was a forever dream that the higher mind made to escape their own reality than I think that would be weird. I think there's no reason for the higher mind to hide it from us. Its just confusing but w/e reason there is this is still my reality and the rest of those in this world. Reality could probably be a higher mind's dream but than again our world could be the only one existing. But I really do think the higher mind knows by now if there are more worlds out there. If there were more than one higher mind than why wouldn' it be known by now? So many questions....but Im Ok with not knowing the answers now. ^^' Its so much to take in when you first think about it.
      From my perspective, Earth is an example of what we as a dreaming awareness can achieve collectively as it emerges from who and what we are not as the human avatars we become, but as the larger entity that we are who is participating in this simulated story so to speak. I support the idea that we are an awareness system that is compartmentalized into different aspects much like Freud discusses with his idea that the mind has an ego, id and super-ego. The Gnostics believed that we are spiritually composed of two different personality types which they call the Daemon and Eidolon. The Daemon is described as our true self which exists in a super-omnipotent state over-seeing the part of itself called the Eidolon who is the part of itself locked into the human experience.

      This dualism is also noted in other beliefs such as those who look at the Higher Self, or the Universal Self and likely has some roots in Pantheism where we are both God and a part of God being human. Not sure if you are familiar with Robert A. Monroe's books "Journeys Out of the Body", "Far Journeys" and "Ultimate Journeys" as he starts to encounter this dualistic part of himself which he calls an INSPEC or an Intelligent Species... to him it had all the properties of a God like, all knowing entity. People often encounter them as beings of light during NDE or astral travel... but what that is, that quality of being is really an aspect of ourselves much like the Gnostics describe in the Daemon/Eidolon dualism.

      I have encountered this also in my explorations of consciousness during sleep which encompass the usual lucid dreams and out-of-body experiences that come with being awake during sleep. I too have met with a being-of-light or even just a voice in the ethers of the dream that breaks through and provides guidance. There would be a point in my life where I would bridge between myself as the human participant in this Earth experience and myself as the non-physical overseer observing how we were progressing in the experience of life. When that time came, I realized that the dualistic nature was merely a result of how we have compartmentalized as a being, and as awareness. My "I there" as Robert A. Monroe would say, was projecting a part of it's awareness into the "I here" for the purpose of having a human experience.

      Which brings full circle based on my experiences some likely answers as to why we have this overwhelming state of physical realism in a Universe that derives itself from thought organized into reality experiences. And it's very much outside of physical time/space as we have come to know it. Before becoming human and as this non-physical entity I had become bored, static and not really doing much other than just being. Coming to Earth presented an opportunity to experience new things but if I knew and remembered that I was this non-physical entity that existed outside of the constraints of a mortal human life... the experience of being Human would be dimmed and lessoned. But that's what makes Earth so fascinating is that to be here we enter into a state of amnesia when we split into this dualistic being. The part of us here is locked into the drama of being a mortal on Earth exposed to all the qualities that come with being alive, having a body and needing to survive where the non-physical part of ourselves is simply projecting it's awareness into this system benefiting from the quality of the experience.

      From that perspective, we are an absolutely eternal system of awareness that exists outside of what we know here as time/space. The amount of time that we exist likely spans the age of many Universes so given this conundrum of eternal existence, how else to spend it but by creating new experiences to have and even if we lock into a life and forget, that is part of the adventure and fun until we return and remember that is what it was all about in the first place.

      So for me, it's about having new experiences and also about evolving new experiences thus creating new content in a Universe that is astronomically vast both in this physical state, and in the non-physical state that we also exist in. Imagine the choice to come to Earth and become a lifeform to something that is eternal and unending... to that part of itself it would be like a grand amusement park and what a ride it would be. A real epic journey into a very evolved and complex system of experiences.

      Why we here don't know is because it's not a requirement and for some it's better not to know as it would serve not purpose and likely only interfere with what they are involved in for that life experience. Eventually we die and snap back to the non-physical state where we reside and from there make other choices as to what to do next. For myself, I do not see a beginning nor an end for who and what I am, and the same extends towards all those around me. We are more than just humans... I prefer to label us dreamers because that is really what we are. Very powerful dreamers.
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      I am very happy that you came back. I first met you on the IASD discussion boards 5 or 6 years a go. You posted many bright and interesting dreams. Often with your silent, autistic little daughter in them. But in those dreams she could talk to you.

      DV friends

      Yad is the guy who recognized within the dream, that he was having a precognitive dream.

      So he drew a red triangle on a friend's forehead (in the dream)

      Later when the precognition unfolded in waking life, the red triangle appeared on his friends forhead. (!!!)
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      It's good to be back, I want to be a little more active again on some forums regarding helping people advanced forward in the dream experience. Funny that you mentioned that particular precognitive dream as I just wrote about it last night as another author had posted a blog posting about lucid precognitive dreaming. Here's the link with the picture and several other pictures of the triangle that appeared.

      A Personal Thank-You to Robert Graham. | A World of Precognitive Dreams - YouAreDreaming.org

      I have had other experiences above and beyond the triangle event with Kevin. No doubt thought, it clearly has shown me at least that dreams are literally the forge of this reality and yes... we can change reality by changing precognitive dream content.

      Hence why I raise conjecture on the idea that reality could be a dream. Experiences like the triangle event really set that in stone if one can actually go through that process

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      Hm...Ok I see how it would work in that way. I don't like the idea of astral travel[too scary for me] so i wouldn't know what a being of light is but thanks for the talk and explanation. I had to read it like 3 times to really understand. wow, I'm slow. OTL
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      Quote Originally Posted by DawnEye11 View Post
      Hm...Ok I see how it would work in that way. I don't like the idea of astral travel[too scary for me] so i wouldn't know what a being of light is but thanks for the talk and explanation. I had to read it like 3 times to really understand. wow, I'm slow. OTL
      The being-of-light, which you can find all through out history in the written records of many different religions and spiritual beliefs is 100% absolutely your future self... the part of you that grows and graduates from human experience. In my own astral travells I have seen how we are evolving by being human and becoming more experienced and advanced as a result... it's a very big win win for us so even though it might seem scary, strange or different... what you are evolving and growing into really is something remarkable, beautiful and eternal... so have fun with all the lovely life lessons. They really do serve a higher purpose for who we are all becoming.

      I've met my "being-of-light" self and I have to tell you... one of the most amazing, life changing and powerful experiences I could ever wish for. Is it really light, I don't know... that could just be a metaphorical representation but it is definitely an aspect of who we are in a bigger picture reality. If you want any details I can elaborate further as I have tonnes of memories and experiences with it to draw on.

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      If I had a chance to meet my future self I don't think I would want to though.Makes me feel like things are already set and done in a way which would make me feel less motivated to do things. I just like being the only me to be honest so that's probably why I feel that way. Even though humans are advancing, bad things like sickness and violence is increasing.- _ - Which is why I don't like the idea of becoming another person.[reincarnation] Why would you want to become another person just to experience something horrible...
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      Quote Originally Posted by YAD View Post
      I've met my "being-of-light" self and I have to tell you... one of the most amazing, life changing and powerful experiences I could ever wish for. Is it really light, I don't know... that could just be a metaphorical representation but it is definitely an aspect of who we are in a bigger picture reality. If you want any details I can elaborate further as I have tonnes of memories and experiences with it to draw on.
      I would definitely appreciate hearing about your experience with 'light-self'. Perhaps we can compare.

      I almost had a religious experience from just reading Monroe's second and third book. That stuff is fantastic!

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      Yes.
      I don't think it's likely, though.

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      Quote Originally Posted by DawnEye11 View Post
      If I had a chance to meet my future self I don't think I would want to though.Makes me feel like things are already set and done in a way which would make me feel less motivated to do things. I just like being the only me to be honest so that's probably why I feel that way. Even though humans are advancing, bad things like sickness and violence is increasing.- _ - Which is why I don't like the idea of becoming another person.[reincarnation] Why would you want to become another person just to experience something horrible...
      In an honest round-about way... you are not really who you are right now. If you play a video game and become a character in that game do you expect to always be that character? You are and were someone, something else prior to entering into the human expeirence. If anything, you will want to get back to this "true self" who is now engaged in playing a character in a very long and detailed virtual reality simulation.

      Here is a video with Robert A. Monroe, he covers this in great detail in some respects. It's a worthy watch.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBii06UyWwY

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      Quote Originally Posted by Dthoughts View Post
      I would definitely appreciate hearing about your experience with 'light-self'. Perhaps we can compare.

      I almost had a religious experience from just reading Monroe's second and third book. That stuff is fantastic!
      It started for me in my past-life... I have an indepth thread on it on Anthony Peak's site who has written about me in his book: "The Out-of-Body Experience: The History and Science of Astral Travel"

      View topic - I live to walk again. &bull; Cheating the Ferryman, Is there Life After Death, The Daemon.

      I met the being-of-light in that post-life or afterlife state which sent me back to Earth to now live this life, although I didn't want to go back. It showed me that we are evolving from small individualized cell like parts into these vibrant beings-of-light.

      When I started to have lucid dreams and go out-of-body I started to reconnect with this being which showed me precognitive dreams in a way I never imagined possible ie... lucid precognitive dreams and much much more.

      There would be a point when I realized or come to a cross-road when I recognized this being as myself and we had gone full-circle as if in a loop. After that merger I have not externalized that as an aspect of myself rather we are more or less whole to a certain degree.

      My daughter is demanding my attentions I will try to make more time and come back with further depth but that's the summary of many experiences with it.
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      But a video game is different cause you know your playing a character that's you but not real...and I wouldn't say it was like a game. If I got stabbed or shot in the leg it would really hurt.( /> o <)
      Last edited by DawnEye11; 06-07-2014 at 11:56 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by DawnEye11 View Post
      But a video game is different cause you know your playing a character that's you but not real...and I wouldn't say it was like a game. If I got stabbed or shot in the leg it would really hurt.( /> o <)
      What if games one day included the ability to inflict virtual damage to your avatar and the method of doing so was completely seamless with reality. At which point are you able to tell you are definitively playing a game or existing, or if there is even a distinction between the two or needs to be, provided the same experience is provided on both ends?

      The other thing you need to think about is your definition of real and what the concept means to you, especially when concerning you and your "reality". If, after you "die" you did find yourself to be someone, something, etc w/e., "else" you would know that it was just a different experience, one that you could even liken to being a dream, even if what "happened" in it really "happened" and had effects on physical matter. Are you considering reality to be what you are perceiving, or do you consider it to be observable changes in physical space-time and matter?

      Another thing to think about I suppose. Are feelings that you have really "real" anyway? If you feel physical pain, it's a consequence of the hyperpolarization and depolarization of cell membranes that communicate with one another. Is the subjective feeling you get from pain "real"? That answer is yes and no I suppose, again depending on your definition of real and reality. Regardless, when meaning to observe the universe through means other than human perception I think it is more useful to quit looking at consciousness and reality as a continuum. It is more like a thing to be looked at or "felt", "observed", "touched", whatever you'd like to call it, from as many possible ways that can be done. Being human with functioning senses is just one more way to collect, analyze, and interpret information. However, there are other means to collect said information, and not all of it necessarily in the same "order" prescribed by the order of physical events experienced by us.
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      What could be said is the following. Reality, if we assume it has an existence independent of any human minds, physical reality is what modifies our subjective, inner experience. Dreams in general can be completely realistic, and such viewed as proof, that the human mind does not depend on any external stimuli, information detected by the senses and transmitted by the nervous system. It is completely enough to dream, in order to have the same experiences as in waking life. Not only that - but as every lucid dreamer knows - you have access to experiences, which would not be possible, if you would be awake and constantly exposed to sensory input (if you neglect lucid day dreaming, if that works as described).
      We are never in any direct contact with the outside reality - we always deal with an inner representation, and it is very reasonable to assume, that it is the same mechanism, providing this representation, which also brings forth dreams and lucid dreams. Just while we are awake, it is supplemented and also to a large degree bound to external input.

      So what would be the background on which I could imagine, that reality is indeed a dream in a meaningful way of using the term?
      First of all - what comes through our senses and nervous system would have to not really come in that way.
      There would be an outside reality, but not the one, we are experiencing.
      So that would mean, we are somehow deceived into believing, there would be sensory organs in the first place, and a body acting in this reality.
      What this amounts to is human minds living in a simulation and every input would be originating from that simulation.
      If you think it Matrix-style - then there would be actual human bodies, but lying in artificial sleep - or - there are no bodies in the first place - and all is one huge illusion. By whom could we be tricked in such a way?
      Matrix has artificial intelligences (AIs) using the originally really existing and living human bodies, to use them for their energy-needs. Why a simulation? Because these bodies would supposedly die without proper social and general subjective life. So the AIs provide one. Cinema - but theoretically possible.
      What could also be the case, would be that the simulation runs on some advanced organic beings' computational arrangements - humans, posthumans or aliens. Pretty sophisticated simulation, if so.
      As I said often before - that idea is what renders me an agnostic atheist - maybe there are such beings, and I would concur with calling it/her/him/them god(s) - no problem - if they happen to actually have created our minds in the simulation.
      Next question then of course - where do they come from? And "their" universe?

    18. #18
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      If I am indeed another being living as a human than I would like more proof because based on the things I have learned and seen I don't have enough to believe this is true. Why? Because there are so many possibilities out there. I mean, how do you even know if the world was set up in a way to make you think that you could be another being or tell the future but your really not. Maybe other powerful beings are tricking those who believe so they can make others believe in that lie. On the other hand I don't have any proof either. I just know that certain things in this world are either good, bad or neutral and the things seen that are bad are scary and I don't like it. I know myself and if I was a higher mind being I wouldn't come back to be someone else just to live with demons, violent humans and other sad things. I would only come back if I really loved someone that I needed to be with and search for. Not for more experiences. Unless I died with not much experiences....But still. The earth needs someone powerful and who can create order. Humans die, get sick and more people are born into the world with mental problems. Humans don't even understand much of the brain now...If the earth was alone in a world with just humans...I think the human race would just dissapear one day

    19. #19
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      The matrix is a good example. Also, if your a atheist what explanation would you have for spirits/demons? Just curious
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      It is! Mainstream science fiction - but high standard and properly thought through!
      I do not believe in spirits and/or demons, though.
      No theoretical problems with simulated ones - but I don't see any representation of such beings in the evidence, we find by proper scientific study.
      What evidence there is, is anecdotal and subjective - and so I don't believe in simulated ones either.
      It would take extraordinary and "hard" evidence to sway me in this respect.

    21. #21
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      Oh okay. I dont have any evidence for that because i havent experienced it. I just believe it is real cause others who are not on that mainstream have it happen to them and from the really bad sickening things that happen in the world. But I can understand your point because there are many things on tv that are made just for views and high ratings. XD Thanks for the reply.

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      I thought Nick Bostrom's argument for the entire world being a computer simulation was pretty good and easy to follow, too. It basically goes:

      1. Creating the computer technology required to simulate a world is achievable by an advanced civilization.

      2. There will be at least some civilizations in the universe who achieve such technology.

      3. The civilizations that achieve such technology will create world-simulations in abundance, perhaps they will be as common as video games or more so.

      If you accept the above three premises it is easy to see how the number of simulated beings could dwarf the number of real beings in the universe.

      I don't imagine a distinct line between reality and dreams as most people do. There are pictures in your mind, and then there are other pictures in your mind. Which are dreams, the former or the latter? You can't tell from the information given, and yet, that information is the only information that we really know for sure. Dreams are images in our minds, and reality is images in our minds. We can be certain of literally nothing else. Thus if you throw out everything we think we know, and focus only on what we know we know, dreams and reality are equivalent.
      YAD and StephL like this.

    23. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by DawnEye11 View Post
      But a video game is different cause you know your playing a character that's you but not real...and I wouldn't say it was like a game. If I got stabbed or shot in the leg it would really hurt.( /> o <)
      I understand how complicated this might all seem; when in fact it's actually not that hard to see or understand. What makes it hard to understand stems from what our beliefs, experiences and also lack of experience... most importantly... lack of memory impose on us while we are here in this physical simulated reality system. I know because before I started having precognitive dreams, out-of-body experiences and was able to have this change in my perspective that allowed me to see the relationship between dreams and reality; I would have been an atheist skeptic like two of my life-long friends. In fact, I was also being coached by a skeptic long before they joined that club. And it's not a big deal, as I realize to really get to this change of perspective one has to subjectively go through similar dream related events that would help construct this larger overview with regards to reality being a type of dream simulation from a larger awareness system. And in being a skeptic, I would say remain skeptical even with regards to what I say because it's of no value unless you yourself actually have similar experiences that can help you unlock yourself from being locked in to this system.

      This is why I've written books and articles on how to lucid dream as the only path to stepping out of the simulation lies within the experiences we can have during sleep based dreaming... or we just wait until we die and find out the hard way. There is no requirement to do so rather it's just something you can choose to do so that you can have your own evidence and experience which can illustrate what I talk about.

      I don't believe anyone can come to this type of knowledge by simply believing in it, as if it would be a trendy new belief-system in our current pop-culture... you have homework, and the questions on the test only you can answer. Even if I do your homework for you and give you all the answers, you will not know or understand how those answer came to be.

      My advice, don't believe anything that I write. Just keep trying to be concious during sleep and see if you can answer some of those questions on the test.

    24. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by StephL View Post
      What could be said is the following. Reality, if we assume it has an existence independent of any human minds, physical reality is what modifies our subjective, inner experience. Dreams in general can be completely realistic, and such viewed as proof, that the human mind does not depend on any external stimuli, information detected by the senses and transmitted by the nervous system. It is completely enough to dream, in order to have the same experiences as in waking life. Not only that - but as every lucid dreamer knows - you have access to experiences, which would not be possible, if you would be awake and constantly exposed to sensory input (if you neglect lucid day dreaming, if that works as described).
      We are never in any direct contact with the outside reality - we always deal with an inner representation, and it is very reasonable to assume, that it is the same mechanism, providing this representation, which also brings forth dreams and lucid dreams. Just while we are awake, it is supplemented and also to a large degree bound to external input.

      So what would be the background on which I could imagine, that reality is indeed a dream in a meaningful way of using the term?
      First of all - what comes through our senses and nervous system would have to not really come in that way.
      There would be an outside reality, but not the one, we are experiencing.
      So that would mean, we are somehow deceived into believing, there would be sensory organs in the first place, and a body acting in this reality.
      What this amounts to is human minds living in a simulation and every input would be originating from that simulation.
      If you think it Matrix-style - then there would be actual human bodies, but lying in artificial sleep - or - there are no bodies in the first place - and all is one huge illusion. By whom could we be tricked in such a way?
      Matrix has artificial intelligences (AIs) using the originally really existing and living human bodies, to use them for their energy-needs. Why a simulation? Because these bodies would supposedly die without proper social and general subjective life. So the AIs provide one. Cinema - but theoretically possible.
      What could also be the case, would be that the simulation runs on some advanced organic beings' computational arrangements - humans, posthumans or aliens. Pretty sophisticated simulation, if so.
      As I said often before - that idea is what renders me an agnostic atheist - maybe there are such beings, and I would concur with calling it/her/him/them god(s) - no problem - if they happen to actually have created our minds in the simulation.
      Next question then of course - where do they come from? And "their" universe?
      Great reply, and these are some challenging questions to answer and it seems that we each have to find the means within ourselves to answer them. I can do my best to answer from my own experiences but in the end... you would have to find the answers through your own experiences with your own dreams if they and reality are related.

      What this is not, is a computer driven simulation on some alien computer where we are stuffed into batteries like in the Matrix. It is quite simple in that from our ability to dream which demonstrates how we can simulate virtual reality during sleep, as a collective consciousness we are capable of simulating a similar system with a much higher fidelity than these types of dreams in the scale and terms of Physical Universes. Which is fine and dandy to say... so how do you get there to see this as being either a truth, or some assumption?

      For me, it came from having spontaneous precognitive dreams that lead me to start to explore this strange anomaly in my life during lucid dreams. Changing these dreams and observing the changes happen here. It was a very, very long process that spanned over 11 years until I was satisfied with the answers that I had which clearly showed me that reality and dreams were an interconnected system. Well, good for me. But how does that help you? How do you take similar steps to see this in action with your own two eyes?

      Has it worked for others... yes. I have helped some people connect with their precognitive dreams through becoming more involved in lucid dreaming but to get there, you really need to start asking the right questions in that state and try to get to what I call the precognitive layer. Can you get there? Part of you is already there so I think you can. Will you though? That is all depending on how you direct your intent when you fall asleep at night. Understanding that your intent is the key to getting there is really everything. I'd start by dropping all beliefs, clean the slate when you go to sleep and just ask yourself, "Can I have precognitive dreams? I want to experience what it is like to have a precognitive dream." This is merely to shape your intent and put you in that direction.

      By focusing on that state, asking questions to yourself the idea is that when you are in the dreamstate you start to connect more in the precognitive spectrum rather than in all the distracting filters.

      It's like having an out-of-body experience, your intent is everything in getting you to having that experience.

      Why is it important that you do this? I think that becomes very self-evident if you are successful. Otherwise, it's just another person's belief and not something you have experienced first hand.

      The they/them... it's just you. No other gods or beings required. Just yourself.

    25. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by DawnEye11 View Post
      If I am indeed another being living as a human than I would like more proof because based on the things I have learned and seen I don't have enough to believe this is true. Why? Because there are so many possibilities out there. I mean, how do you even know if the world was set up in a way to make you think that you could be another being or tell the future but your really not. Maybe other powerful beings are tricking those who believe so they can make others believe in that lie. On the other hand I don't have any proof either. I just know that certain things in this world are either good, bad or neutral and the things seen that are bad are scary and I don't like it. I know myself and if I was a higher mind being I wouldn't come back to be someone else just to live with demons, violent humans and other sad things. I would only come back if I really loved someone that I needed to be with and search for. Not for more experiences. Unless I died with not much experiences....But still. The earth needs someone powerful and who can create order. Humans die, get sick and more people are born into the world with mental problems. Humans don't even understand much of the brain now...If the earth was alone in a world with just humans...I think the human race would just dissapear one day
      Well, it's not something we should entirely confuse... this other being is still you. And you are the being right now. Yes it can create a type of dualism in that we often externalize the being which is still us as some other entity or artifact of ourselves.

      My views is likely more that of panthiesm in that I believe God is at the individual level in every aspect of existence and reality, that it's an interconnected system where we are all parts of a whole.

      This is also viewable in how our reality is structured from the tiniest part, to the larger groups. For example how an atom is composed of sub-atomic particles, which make up a molecule, that makes up our RNA/DNA, that makes a cell, that makes groups of cells with different roles in our body, which in turn makes us. We as individuals make up a family that make up a community which makes up a country that makes up a planet that is part of a solar system which is part of a galaxy that is part of a Universe which is part of a reality-system. Every piece of us comes from the birth of the Universe, every atom has been something else, in something else, used as something else. Life recycles itself over and over again. We are part of both our mother and our father through the passing of DNA.

      Everything electromagnetically is connected, everything from at the quantum scale is entangled. All of us parts of a reality-system which is sum of all our parts (stars and galaxies included ).

      If you look at the small thing that you are, you are a Universe in and of yourself with small solar systems in the form of atoms in your body. When you sleep, you play God and create micro-dream Universes effortlessly and endlessly in this creative process. You are both a part of reality, and reality itself living and breathing through you.

      You may think of yourself as just what you are in the present moment, but you have existed in the past and will exist in the future spanning a long journey through time and space. We are very deeply rooted in this system and are more than just mere fleeting moments within it.

      As for the sick and dying part of life. The Earth is this way because it's designed to be this way thus in order for new people to be born, old people must die. As terrible as death may seem we do survive it which I don't have to explain, we all find that secret out come our time. But still, if we were all immortal beings on earth that needed to eat and have immortal babies the planet would fill up exponentially until there was nothing left but mountains upon mountains of humans. Death brings balance to the system and is necessary in order to recycle life.

      The drama, suffering and all the bad stuff that happens to people here is part of the nature of balance, but we do learn from these negative behaviours. For example, why is there suffering? Suffering teaches humility and people who suffer in life are often more empathetic to others around them. They learn through their hardship that as bad as it was to them they likely wouldn't want the same for others. People who do not suffer and have everything handed to them tend to be more sociopathic with less empathy towards others. They put their money, their ego and themselves above all else.

      Where these lessens become very apparent is not just in a single lifetime, but in many lifetimes. Again this is hard to see when one is locked into this system, but we are evolving and growing to become more loving, more compassionate based on these extremes that we go through in life. There is a lot of learning that comes with being a human on Earth, we are constantly learning and evolving so I see that as a good part of the negative branch of thinking. The light at the end of the tunnel so to speak.

      Due to my odd awakening, I do see everything as a completely connected system of the self; thus what we do to others we ultimately do to ourselves. So people killing in the name of God are actually killing the very God they seek, they are killing a part of themselves and do not have the awareness and reason to see just how connected we all are. Thus the snake eats it's own tail in violent acts within the larger picture.

      I mean, I could be wrong... but that is how I see interconnectedness and oneness within may individuals which are all part of Reality as a whole.

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