Thread: Media representing the dream world as the spirit world

The film Mr Jones (2013)

I should mention Carlos Castaneda (spelling?) for the sake of a more inclusive list.

If the dream world is really the spirit world, then alot of weird crap that doesn't even make sense happens there; and school must be a mandatory thing there too.

you are right on. there is a mandatory school. There is a lot that does not make sense to you, but rest assured it does make sense in the end, for those who know. You are supposed to claim a 'flame' a 'light' before you can go out and 'compete'. So, in the end it does make sense but its far out my friend. The truth, reality, is quite absurd. Your mind has to be very open to the many possibilities that present themselves to you. I wish i could prove it to you and make your journey easier, but unfortunately or fortunately this is the way people progress. Trust me, I will never let you down.

the dream world and the spirit world are the same. you enter the spirit world once you reach deep sleep. and the more you understand deep sleep the more likely are you to enter the spirit world. Its quite disturbing, out of place and out of mind. You'd think it would be benevolent, but its quite the opposite. If you were given the power over others in thought, desire, want or need would you share it with other people? no, you would not. so it remains a secret. It is the fate, the destiny of the human race to achieve this, but those who already have it do not wish to share it with the rest of you. To the point of murder. Rest assured, if you are hearing voices, they are telling you to go away from reality, so as to not allow you to understand what is really happening to you. I don't have the power to change all of you myself, but I can stop their progress while you try to catch up. And you are not worthy of it, if you were one of them you would not wish to share this secret with anyone else, you would wish to be the only of a few who understand the situation, one of the few who knows the truth. I offer you the whole truth, but can you handle it. i doubt it, but there it is, all spelled out for you. They are 'here and there' (as their saying goes) . 'Many as one, one as many." Fight back. demand the truth, and once they tell you the lie demand the truth again. They have failed to defend you, the innocent. The meek shall inherent the world. My friend once asked me what that meant. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. The meek shall inherit the world. The meekest of the meek? children. Children shall inherent the world. The children is what they target. They have a plan, a well conceived strategy that turns all the children into targets. Guess how easy it is to make a child into a demon? It is so easy that even the angels themselves will give a hand. They can't deny that. two hundred and fifty million children, one fifth of the percent of the population. These children never had a chance, never had a choice. My job is to give them that, a chance. Everyone deserves a chance, a choice, just once god damnit! but they give them none. As of now they are trying to silence me, the voice of the lost children. Who are the lost children? the ones who were never given a choice or even had a chance to be anything else but a monster. Study and you shall learn.

I think taking human works as evidence for the dream world being the spirit world is a bit silly if you ask me. I'm not denying the possibility of it being the truth, but I question what you are using to prove it to be true. Another thing, when stating that the dream world is spirit world, there exists an implication that can't quite be ignored. What if the spirit world is in fact the dream world and that it therefore exists solely within your mind and isn't really a plane of existence? I find the idea you posted interesting, but I don't think you have enough compelling evidence to get me to believe anything you are saying is the truth.

its more simple than you think. Listen, once you go to sleep your mind wanders, and it just doesnt wander within your mind but elsewhere. Proof? you'll never get to that if that's what you're waiting for. To be quite clear: You can only reach the dream world, the spirit world, while still alive, by learning how to dream. Once you're dead its quite easy to tell all your friends, who are still alive, what the world is really like, but they wont believe you, they'll think you're just an imagination, and there is where it ends. You will never be able to convince anyone of the truth, whether both alive or dead.

im not here to give you compelling evidence of the spirit world as the dream world. There is no proof, there will never be any proof, just, at most, an unaccounted energy. And this will always be a a point of discussion. Were it not, you would know all the secrets of the world. But since it is so, you know nothing of value, save the doubt, who will always lead you away from the truth (by definition)

AS for taking human works as evidence...it is the perfect response, Not silly at all, but somehow perceived.

Originally Posted by wolf8rabbit

the dream world and the spirit world are the same... To the point of murder... two hundred and fifty million children, one fifth of the percent of the population. These children never had a chance, never had a choice. My job is to give them that, a chance. .. As of now they are trying to silence me, the voice of the lost children....

Whoa ! What are you talking about?
You started a thread with a reasonable title that could easily host a healthy dialogue about whether the dream world is in fact the spirit world (or as snoop said, the opposite), and you end up presenting yourself as the defender of some lost children, threatened by what, evil entities? How did you came up with all that? Did you have dreams about that or something? Funny thing is that you say no proof can be given, still we have to believe in you...hm....what does this reminds me of?.....

Originally Posted by wolf8rabbit

its more simple than you think.... There is no proof, there will never be any proof...

Here you are simply contradicting yourself.
You fail to answer snoop's argument and while you begin saying that it's quite simple, you end up saying there is no proof, so anyone can sell any story one likes...

Originally Posted by wolf8rabbit

Proof? you'll never get to that if that's what you're waiting for. )

Then why did you stat the topic with this?

Originally Posted by wolf8rabbit

Here is an ever growing list showing the connection between the spirit world and the dream world, as being one and the same.

And then go on to list a bunch of works of fiction and art as the proof that the connection is there? What was the purpose of this statement or the listing of those pieces if not to try and prove your point? If it can't be proven, why did you try and prove it in the first place? I was asking a question meant to spur honest and interesting conversation, but it seems more like you are interested in spouting off about some delusion you've come to hold dear. If you don't feel like actually having a discussion then you should write a blog instead of posting a thread to discuss things.

^^ I couldn't agree more. I avoided saying that it's a purely delusional talk but that's the truth. No intent to argue, just scrambled delusional thinking...

im merely presenting to you the truth. and the truth is completely absurd. yes, im speaking for children, because they were forgotten (250 million and counting, 5% of the population. if you were one of them, youd know what this means). sorry if i cant explain this to you, because youd just claim its a delusion. so you see, there is no point in explaining anything, because you are looking for proof. you'll never get it. its a fixed game, its a very exclusive club. to be more to the point, im not speaking to you, im speaking for those who read these posts and are part of this exclusive club. im taking a shot at them. now, think for a second. if you were looking for a spiritual predator, and you were one to think that the spirit world and the dream world are one and the same, where would you find such people? guess where? here. a website devoted to dreams, or lucid dreaming specifically. there is no argument here, im not trying to even start one. there are those who doubt, those who believe and those who know. it takes a great leap of faith to achieve what you are trying to ge to, truth. you will know it once you die, but until then you will only have arguments and discussions and doubt. the reason why im presenting the media as it represents the dream/spirit world is because these people actually know how this really works, they are part of it, and the 'proof' of this is in their works, their films and stories. no, im not delusional, i just know the very weird and far out truth, and everyone who knows this will always be called out as delusional or some other name, its fixed, they dont want you to know anything. let me present a question to you...if you had the power of invisibility, of instant travel, of mind reading, and of mind bending, to the point that you could make someone think that the thoughts that you put inside their heads is actually their own...would you share this with anybody or would you keep that to yourself, and thus making you have power over others? now theres a difference between me and them, as i would answer that question differently than the rest of you. delusional? no, im a schizophrenic, clinically delusional but in another place my kind are called naturals. i can hear and see them, except im not delusional in that im thinking that god or the devil or angels or demons are talking to me. i know who they are.

Originally Posted by wolf8rabbit

save the doubt, who will always lead you away from the truth (by definition)

But doubt also always leads one away from the lies by definition.


I suggest DV take this thread with a healthy serving of doubt.

you are talking about discernment, a difference from doubt. doubt does not always lead someone away from lies by definition, although it certainly can and does. it will, always, lead someone away from the absurd truth, and thus i call it an enemy of the truth. you are better off being completely gullible, willing to believe anything, and that would get you farther than just doubting everything you hear or see, that will get you nowhere.

Doubting everything you hear or see is why we have evolved at all as a species. Doubting the weather as a punishment of the gods lead man to understand the seasons, doubting the established finds its weaknesses, it pushes it to stand against scrutiny, it makes it prove itself at every angle, because that's the only way to know if it's true or not. That's doubt

Originally Posted by wolf8rabbit

.... im a schizophrenic, clinically delusional but in another place my kind are called naturals...

Ok, it's a good thing that at least you realize your situation.
So, this is not a conversation based in reason and proof but it's simply you description of your hallucination. Although this should be done in a blog and not a Forum - as a forum by definition is a place for reason and argument - it is nevertheless an interesting SciFi reading.
By the way, you didn't explain how you can help these children not become demons, who forgot them - and they are now the Forgotten Children - and who are their predators...

you havent the slightest idea of my situation. take some shrooms and you'll realize the difference. rest assured i used to come to this site and destroy people and their arguments. its quite easy. and if you keep pressing me ill show you what i did back then, its funny you'll see. I will present this to you very soon. but first, the lost children. 250 million and counting. not even They knew what i meant, what was coming to them. The Lost Children are the ones that i protect. Do you know how easy it is to turn a child into a monster? its very easy. even the angels (as youd call them) will lend you their hand. It is the number of children who were and are abused by pedophiles ( the 5 percent). Like i said, i used to frequent this site back in the days, and i can quiet your numbers by mere scientific facts, as i did back then, with no 'magic' to speak of. Do you know how easy it is to turn a child into a monster? its more than a number. im one of the very few to survive such a tragic fate. You have no idea what you call upon. Hopefully this answers what you wanted to know about the lost children. I give them a choice, a chance, something they've never had in their entire life. Theres your explanation. Do you know the allegory of the cave? (damn its either Plato or Socrates) You sit there with all the others looking at the shadows on the walls, while the fire behind you burns. and then one of you, one of them, stands up and see the fire burning and the figures that make the shadows that you see on the walls. and guess what happens to them? they are stoned to death, they are beaten up and are told they are crazy by the shadows, because they dont see the fire and the real people that make such shadows. they deny reality, as per the story. Socrates is telling you that you will never accept the truth, because it goes against your beliefs. Evil rules, its cool and its what everyone wants. You dont realize my situation, you dont even know your own, and if presented to you it would be cast off and forgotten. I was Sleepingdog, and now i am my own real name, wolfrabbit. call me again and we shall see who knows what and what reality is. i dare you, let us see who sees the truth.

Originally Posted by wolf8rabbit

... if you keep pressing me...

No, I will not keep pressing you.
Thanks for answering about the lost children.
I am off this thread, have a nice day!

yes, its quite dark i know.

Originally Posted by wolf8rabbit

The meek shall inherit the world. The meekest of the meek? children.

Have you spent much time around children? Most of them aren't particularly meek.

are you keeping count? cause its a horrible thing if you are on the wrong side of the count.

wolf8rabbit, have you seen the movie "What Dreams May Come" it stars Robbin Williams as the main character. He dies and goes to heaven and hell, where both are portrayed as a dreamworld. He has his own personal heaven which is like a dream that is his to control, then there is a shared dream world created by God. Hell is another personal dream that's self inflicted.

I believe the afterlife is very much like how it is presented in this movie. Much like dreams the laws and rules of the universe can easily be bent or broken and in general there are less rules governing you which allow you to do things like fly, manifestation, teleportation, telepathy, etc. And again much like dreams, your beliefs, desires and expectations play an important role in shaping the world you see. I would suggest/theorize that dreams form within the mind, but once the mind is no longer in the confines of a physical body it is freed from all limitation and expands into a greater realm. A realm that is very dreamlike and heavily influenced by the mind.

Adventure Time has some interesting stuff about spirit realms, dreams, and past lives. Just recently there was one in which Finn has an out of body experience.

Originally Posted by Eonnn

wolf8rabbit, have you seen the movie "What Dreams May Come"

yes thats another one on my (mental) list that i forget. you are right on in your assessment. thank you for sharing, this particular movie was quite well done and moving. im glad you remembered it.

Adventure TIme (which my nephew loves) has quite a few episodes relating to this. the ones i can remember most clearly are these: fighting 'the barn' they go into a dream and learn how to defeat this creature. there is another called astral travel or something similar, where Finn goes around as a spirit while he sleeps, he meets a coyote who is asleep while the coyotes spirit works out some problems on his own in a chair nearby his sleeping body, and Finn continues on in an astral body. i also remember one which there is a large worm that infiltrates the hero's dream. there is one where there is a party by a shadow of someone, the cosmic owl is there and the Lich is there as well. there is some talk that leads to the shadow of someone who tells Finn to go and awake his body so as to receive something important. he says he will be undone once he awakens but that will only last until his next dream. The Lich takes advantage of this and the whole episode turns into some kind of adventure (like the show!) and there are others as well, which i cant recall as of now, but they are there. The writers of this show know a thing or two about this state of mind.

the film :"Mr Nobody" represents a very interesting perspective on life, dreams and reality in general.