Thread: Specific details or speech hard to recall

Originally Posted by Neo Neo

I may just be out of practice too

Hopefully, it's only that. Because I would too, like to remember dream conversations better.

What I have been noticing though, is that sometimes, I wake up remembering the meaning of a conversation. But, then, as I remember the specific words, it doesn't make sense anymore. So, maybe, it's more about what you think was said than what was actually said.

I sort of know the answer. I think.. I just forgot...

Well.. I try waking up a few times in the morning, writing down whatever voice was last in my head, and then drifting back into that semi-dream state, wake up, repeat. Sometimes I can slip back into the dream, or at the least, there's this thought that comes to me about the dream I had.

Also, I've found that whatever song was in my head when I wake up from a dream, has a lot to do with the theme of the dream.

Anyways, good luck to you - sounds like an interesting dream you had

I'm sort of the same way. Text and exact wording of conversations can be tough to recall from both non-LDs and LDs—visuals, general thoughts, and things I do are much easier. Sometimes I do manage to remember the exact wording of a sentence or a part of a sentence, and I believe this is something that can improve with time and practice, especially for LDs. I sometimes find that a word is used with an unconventional meaning, or there is a completely new, invented word, or the sentence may be cryptic by itself, but in many cases I'll “automatically” understand the underlying meaning during the dream.

I have a hard time 'grasping' conversations in real life. Maybe these two things are related? Especially when people talk fast and are very detailed I tend to zone out and just not absorb what is being said. Others seem to do this just fine. It is not particularly handicapping it's just that some people are harder for me to follow than others.

^^ They probably are related, in terms of what your unconscious is choosing to allow into memory (aka, why bother holding onto all those words being spewed at you, if most of them will never matter?), but you guys reminded me of another thought that crosses my mind now and then:

What if these things you cannot remember really never happened at all? What if you just had a "theme" of a conversation (or writing, or reading, or music, etc) going on in your dream, and the details were never actually provided by your dreaming mind?

This would explain why it's just gibberish when you do take the time to examine or remember what you heard or saw -- because it really would have been gibberish at the time of the dream. It also might explain why those little phrases that seemed so deep and meaningful at the time of dreaming them turn out to be crap upon waking, which happens to me all the time, and why the text in books so often changes as you read it; after all, why would it stay the same if it was never really there? I could imagine your dreaming mind responding to your interest in reading text by frantically throwing something on the page, even if it's just a meaningless jumble.

I know there are always exceptions, and we can all (myself included) cite conversations that remained stable and meaningful upon waking, text that did not change (and maybe meant something as well), and most commonly, music surviving into waking life. But aside from those rare exceptions, what if there really never was anything there, other than a thematic impression of conversations, text, etc.?

Maybe, like Dthoughts' waking-life conversation example above, the meat of these conversations etc is seen by your dreaming mind as unimportant schema-filler, and is treated as such contextually. I know this takes away from the possibility/fantasy that these "forgotten" things carried some important meaning, and I'm probably wrong, but it's something I think about often, and thought I would mention.

Well. In my case. I had a dream of a lecture. I was sort of not 'zoning in' and more or less absorbed in the surroundings and the environment and didn't actually pay that close attention to what was actually being said. I know it was quite important to me. But my ego if you will; believe was lost in awe of what was happening,
Then the dream scene changed to a table and I was being told specific information. I remember there was a logical word-based explanation to something that I understood but rejected immediately. And in the dream I gave arguments AGAINST what was being said. As opposed to absorbing information. I think this is why I did not remember the words. Even though, they where actually juicy.

Sageous. I am a little confused. When you say dreaming-mind. You mean the self, ego? Then yes I agree.
If you mean the 'constructor of dreams, or the mind behind dreams'. The unconscious mind if you will. Then I disagree. Because I tend to think that the information is of relevance and important. But the ego finds ways to obstruct what is being absorbed.

Not to antagonize what you saying, I think it is of interest and important to know the schemas that you are talking about. And sometimes the words are just gibberish, an impression. Yet another schema. I believe.

We can at the least remember that we actually remembered words. So we know for certain that something actually did transpire, something is lost in the haze of memory, in some cases. Wheter the words had meaning. We can not remember. This can be frustrating. Or is at the very least producing a sense of lost information. I hope I am not overcomplicating things here.

Sometimes the words have meaning in the context of the dream. But mean absolutely nothing in waking because we do not remember the entire context in which it surrounds (the words only make sense in the context of the dream, which we do not Always fully recall). I believe we can agree on this much? Therefore, I think you would decrease the likelyhood of remembering since it makes no sense.

In the case of genetics however, they have specific content only applicable to waking life. Therefore, I think that perhaps the likelyhood of actual word conversation based on something that you CAN absorb and carry with you throughout life increases in this sort of situation.
This is at this point just a theory, but I think it makes quite a lot of sense. I can expand on this by saying that words have specific context in waking-life and real life. Because they are invented there. When it comes to things that we have not began to understand such as the mechanics of dreams. That's where symbolism comes into play. And abstract schematics. But in the case of genetics. Words make a fit.

Physics is another one of those Giants. I seem to have remembered clear lessons in physics but have forgotten on waking up. It is not frustrating per say but a shame because somehow a sense of information lost can not escape the mind.

I'm Sorry if i override ur point Sageous. I really am. To answer ur question:

Originally Posted by Sageous

. But aside from those rare exceptions, what if there really never was anything there, other than a thematic impression of conversations, text, etc.?

That would be a real game-changer for me and many others. I believe it would make the conversation or the impression of it, yet another schema. The schema being a symbolism-language. As a mechanism of communication. Sort of transcends language in this case to include more than words. And take into account the entirety of the dream from beginning to end. The whole conversation-schema is in this case just a single syllable uttered by the dream and has to be taken into context as a sentence that started when the dream started and ends when the dream ends.

This is my crude understanding that I developed from listening to Carl Jung last week. Surely, I am only beginning to unravel and I am missing a lot of points here.

Originally Posted by Sageous

What if these things you cannot remember really never happened at all? What if you just had a "theme" of a conversation (or writing, or reading, or music, etc) going on in your dream, and the details were never actually provided by your dreaming mind?

I think I've sometimes asked myself something like this. There have been a number of occasions writing down my dreams where I would sort of wonder whether I really couldn't recall a particular detail, or entire event, or if perhaps the dream simply never defined it in the first place while making me think it did. It's probably similar to how we tend to “fill in” missing information of waking-life memories, even with totally incorrect data, without ever noticing anything wrong.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ They probably are related, in terms of what your unconscious is choosing to allow into memory (aka, why bother holding onto all those words being spewed at you, if most of them will never matter?), but you guys reminded me of another thought that crosses my mind now and then:

What if these things you cannot remember really never happened at all? What if you just had a "theme" of a conversation (or writing, or reading, or music, etc) going on in your dream, and the details were never actually provided by your dreaming mind?

This would explain why it's just gibberish when you do take the time to examine or remember what you heard or saw -- because it really would have been gibberish at the time of the dream. It also might explain why those little phrases that seemed so deep and meaningful at the time of dreaming them turn out to be crap upon waking, which happens to me all the time, and why the text in books so often changes as you read it; after all, why would it stay the same if it was never really there? I could imagine your dreaming mind responding to your interest in reading text by frantically throwing something on the page, even if it's just a meaningless jumble.

I know there are always exceptions, and we can all (myself included) cite conversations that remained stable and meaningful upon waking, text that did not change (and maybe meant something as well), and most commonly, music surviving into waking life. But aside from those rare exceptions, what if there really never was anything there, other than a thematic impression of conversations, text, etc.?

Maybe, like Dthoughts' waking-life conversation example above, the meat of these conversations etc is seen by your dreaming mind as unimportant schema-filler, and is treated as such contextually. I know this takes away from the possibility/fantasy that these "forgotten" things carried some important meaning, and I'm probably wrong, but it's something I think about often, and thought I would mention.

I can see where you're coming from, and one could never really know. Besides, everyone has different experiences with their dreams. However, from my perspective from doing dreamwork, is that almost everything in my dreams has meaning. The wacky, the odd, the insightful, the music, the weird messages... even some of the mundane. Of course, that's my subjective views at work, and they can be hard to interpret, but I believe in it none the less. So I would think that it would be unusual for a dream to have meaningless content. Unless, of course, meaninglessness is part of the dream message?

I read recently that Carl Jung talked about dreams having multiple layers of meaning. So you could even have a precognitive dream, for example, that also carries a symbolic dream message. That's pretty cool, if that's true.

If you're still interested (op), another trick for remembering dream messages is to write what you remember in your dream journal in the morning as usual, and then later on write out a fully detailed interpretation with emphasis on the dream symbols. I find I often remember dream scenes I had forgotten, and, new insight often comes. It might not be the exact message, but you'll get the gist.

I had a dream last night. And I was under the impresssion that I had not dreamed at all. Yet, 5 minutes ago and 10 minutes ago I saw (seemingly it just popped in my head) in my mind a clear image. And I can still sort of see the image right now of the dream that I had last night. But the entire content eludes me. Even though I am staring at it right now. This is rather odd, I feel like a piece of me is missing. Whatever it is, sitting at my computer is truly not helping me to remember. I think,.

I read recently that Carl Jung talked about dreams having multiple layers of meaning. So you could even have a precognitive dream, for example, that also carries a symbolic dream message. That's pretty cool, if that's true.

Carl Jung was a genius way ahead of his time. Well, he was certainly more smart than Freud. Atleast, he had some more level-headed awareness than Freud. I see critizisism of Freud from various sides (He was sort of on to something though, I think Carl Jung would not have been without Freud). But I do not see anyone who can poke many holes in Carl Jung Psychology. The man is the definition of genius. Which is, I think. Having complete understanding of what he knows and what he can not know. And Jung is such a figure he claimed to literally 'know' god. I truly wonder where he found the audacity to say this.

About Precognition. Carl Jung made it clear that this is 'not' precognition per-say but based on past experiences the dream can sort of predict a future event before it happens. He made it clear that this is not precognition but it may well be a way to prophecize the future if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

Carl Jung was a genius way ahead of his time. Well, he was certainly more smart than Freud. Atleast, he had some more level-headed awareness than Freud. I see critizisism of Freud from various sides (He was sort of on to something though, I think Carl Jung would not have been without Freud). But I do not see anyone who can poke many holes in Carl Jung Psychology. The man is the definition of genius. Which is, I think. Having complete understanding of what he knows and what he can not know. And Jung is such a figure he claimed to literally 'know' god. I truly wonder where he found the audacity to say this.

About Precognition. Carl Jung made it clear that this is 'not' precognition per-say but based on past experiences the dream can sort of predict a future event before it happens. He made it clear that this is not precognition but it may well be a way to prophecize the future if you ask me.

Interesting stuff! And he most definitely was ahead of his time.

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

I have a hard time 'grasping' conversations in real life. Maybe these two things are related? Especially when people talk fast and are very detailed I tend to zone out and just not absorb what is being said. Others seem to do this just fine. It is not particularly handicapping it's just that some people are harder for me to follow than others.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ They probably are related, in terms of what your unconscious is choosing to allow into memory (aka, why bother holding onto all those words being spewed at you, if most of them will never matter?), but you guys reminded me of another thought that crosses my mind now and then:

What if these things you cannot remember really never happened at all? What if you just had a "theme" of a conversation (or writing, or reading, or music, etc) going on in your dream, and the details were never actually provided by your dreaming mind?

This would explain why it's just gibberish when you do take the time to examine or remember what you heard or saw -- because it really would have been gibberish at the time of the dream.

Sageous, you continue to blow my mind lol. Glad this topic is generating discussion though! Will be back tomorrow with a more thorough response.

Just to clarify Dthought's belief about Jung saying that he “knew” God. Actually, Jung was asked in a filmed interview if he believed in God. He replied, “I don’t need to believe, I know” (Jung 1959a, p. 428).

Originally Posted by Neo Neo

The past couple nights have been interesting nights of dreaming since they have involved various kinds of information. But this information is lost upon waking up and I can either remember the feeling that it happened, or the general subject of discussion. Last night I was dreaming about visiting a research foundation having to do with either chemistry or genetics, and the night before I was hearing lots of extended lectures on subjects and information I can't remember. Aside from not being lucid, I've noticed it being difficult to bring back anything related to speech back to waking life. Both sets of information were spoken. Granted, its near impossible to bring text back from dreams, but in my case it is mostly gibberish anyway. The more extended conversations, discussions, and verbally-relayed information either tends to disappear right after waking or is clear for only a few minutes before it is lost. I just really wish I remembered those lectures and what that research place was about, since I remember what I said but not what the researchers said.

What have been ur recent activities in this area of Chemistry and Genetics?
Did you think of it a lot? I am mainly interested if you came into contact with Researchers. Through videos, lectures, books. etc.