Thread: OBE from the hypnagogic sensations stage!!

Originally Posted by VinceField

I think it's great to share one's experiences and insights to help guide others, but it is important to recognize the limits of one's own experience and understanding, accept the possibility that there is more to learn and ultimate knowledge is not possessed and therefore one's current views may not be completely accurate, be open to change one's perspective as new evidence comes in and accept the experiences and insights of others as potentially valid without labeling them false simply because they contradict one's own experience (remembering that one does not possess absolute knowledge on the matter and another's subjective experiences in nonphysical reality may be equally valid as one's own, complete with all the supporting evidence that validates the other viewpoint as well), and ensure that one's beliefs are not presented as absolute truth, as this can mislead others.

Hello VinceField

I have read this statement of yours many times now trying to understand how I presented my thoughts as unquestionable fact. My experiences are like a Ferrel childs experiences with regular life. I grew up only with my own interpretations of my own experiences. I am a member on over thirty sites and have read almost every thread I can find on ASTRAL PROJECTIONS, NDE, AND OBES. Now I take the things I have read and compare them to the things I have experienced and find my experiences different to the things being said. I do not take drugs nor do I drink or use any method other then my own for getting out of body. You say that ultimate knowledge is not possessed but yet knowledge is acquired through experience is it not. I did not just wake up one day and boom I came up with this theory, it was built on many many thousands of experiences. I don't have all the answers nor did I say I did I only wanted to share something that was fitting together as something I am being shown. I am not working alone on this at all others in the veil are helping me understand this. And yes they could be tricking me but I have seen this with my own two eyes on how much of this works.

Somewhere here in the words I have spoken you seem to think I am speaking in absolutes and completed theories. I am only saying what has been shown to me and for those having these experiences to watch them closely to see if you can find these same variances in your experiences. I do not have your experiences as you and others write about them so why is this? I will say it again I do not care about having your type experiences these are a dime a dozen for me and are just created within the mind for me. I say good luck to you and happy experiences.

Powessy

I haven't read through the full thread, maybe I should do this? It sounds fascinating what is being discussed. It usually is fascinating when Psionik starts making posts.

Imo, everything IS created within the mind. Each reality tunnel, especially in dreams is unique to this person. I believe there is only a limited amounts of absolute truths.

Originally Posted by powessy

Hello VinceField

I have read this statement of yours many times now trying to understand how I presented my thoughts as unquestionable fact.

You did so the moment you made the claim that any interpretation of these experiences aside from your own is wrong. Essentially, any time one states a belief without including the phrases "I believe..," "It seems...," "In my opinion...," "According to my understanding/experience/knowledge...," etc, it comes across as being a statement of fact. I don't believe it is wise to assume that one's experiences in alternate states of consciousness are more valid than another's. One can boast of having thousands or millions or billions of experiences, but quality is more important than quantity. As an example from your own posts, you've stated that it took over 100 OBEs before you could even move an inch in the out-of-body state. By my 100th OBE I had already obtained a plethora of experience and knowledge regarding the nature of my self, Higher Self, God, reality, the mechanics of nonphysical reality, etc. I say this not as a claim of superiority, but as a way to put into perspective the numbers and figures you have been throwing about and the relative unimportance of them. I'm totally fine with you having a different and unique perspective. I am simply advising to take better care of the way you present this perspective, as I believe it will benefit both yourself and those who listen to your words. Take care.

Um:

Originally Posted by VinceField

... By my 100th OBE I had already obtained a plethora of experience and knowledge regarding the nature of my self, Higher Self, God, reality, the mechanics of nonphysical reality, etc.

Shouldn't there have been a "what I believe to be a" inserted somewhere, maybe between "obtained" and "plethora?"

Sorry; I couldn't resist!

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

I haven't read through the full thread, maybe I should do this? It sounds fascinating what is being discussed. It usually is fascinating when Psionik starts making posts.

Imo, everything IS created within the mind. Each reality tunnel, especially in dreams is unique to this person. I believe there is only a limited amounts of absolute truths.

Fascinating? Really? When I read my posts I feel something like I have two faces. One is very rational, second one is spiritual. I try to maintain balance between them, but sometimes one overweights second one. When there is such settled mind as Powessy I tend to go into doubts. Because I myself have very strong visions while I do OBEs, sometimes even by WILDs and at the same time I try to ground myself and not to start believe blindly. He clearly has strong experiences. For him, they are real. He should take challenge and try and take chance in remote viewing challenge

Originally Posted by Sageous

Um:



Shouldn't there have been a "what I believe to be a" inserted somewhere, maybe between "obtained" and "plethora?"

Sorry; I couldn't resist!

Haha yes, perhaps all of my experiences and insights have been elaborate deceptions and delusions! I honestly can't rule it out. But while we're at it, I might as well plug in the expression a bunch more, maybe before "100th OBE," as perhaps they have all been ultra-realistic dreams that I've been fooled into thinking were something else. Might as well put it before "I" as well, as perhaps my conception of my very identity and sense of self is completely wrong! I do acknowledge that my experiences and insights may not be what they seem, but in this case I don't think acknowledging that adds much of benefit for anyone. In a sense, everything we say is based in belief, as it doesn't seem to be possible from an unenlightened human perspective to know for sure that there is absolutely no deception or delusion taking place on some scale. I think it's most important to make beliefs clear when giving advice or stating information that can be applied in some way by others, either in a practical sense or in a way that contributes to the formation and modification of one's belief system.

But yes, yes, you caught me! Nothing like a taste of one's own medicine, eh?

Originally Posted by VinceField

You did so the moment you made the claim that any interpretation of these experiences aside from your own is wrong. Essentially, any time one states a belief without including the phrases "I believe..," "It seems...," "In my opinion...," "According to my understanding/experience/knowledge...," etc, it comes across as being a statement of fact. I don't believe it is wise to assume that one's experiences in alternate states of consciousness are more valid than another's. One can boast of having thousands or millions or billions of experiences, but quality is more important than quantity. As an example from your own posts, you've stated that it took over 100 OBEs before you could even move an inch in the out-of-body state. By my 100th OBE I had already obtained a plethora of experience and knowledge regarding the nature of my self, Higher Self, God, reality, the mechanics of nonphysical reality, etc. I say this not as a claim of superiority, but as a way to put into perspective the numbers and figures you have been throwing about and the relative unimportance of them. I'm totally fine with you having a different and unique perspective. I am simply advising to take better care of the way you present this perspective, as I believe it will benefit both yourself and those who listen to your words. Take care.

Hello vincefield

Again we are not talking of the same obes the ones you gained so much experience in these are simple in the mind experiences and there is nothing in the words you say that I hadn't done during that same number of experiences I just did not come to the same conclusions as you did about them. In the mind astral experiences are not obes, this is what the problem is all about. Like I said if you want those flaky astral experiences then do what you are doing, I will stick to my definition of obe. Is this confusing for you? An obe is in the real in this world in and around the things you see around you. An obe is an out of body experience not an in the mind experience as you are having and explaining in your belief of finding god, higher self, and reality.

As for how I stated these thoughts you can choose to believe what you want. I have seen and know how they are done, I am only informing you of this. Like any information you can disregard it or you can try and confirm it or you can ignore it, it's your choice. I do however know that what I am saying is 100 percent accurate I have left it open for others though to try and figure it out. Now this last statement is fact and I am stating it as such. In your statements above you say you found all these things and are stating this also as fact I do not see, I believe.., it seems..., in my opinion..

Powessy

Originally Posted by Psionik

Fascinating? Really? When I read my posts I feel something like I have two faces. One is very rational, second one is spiritual. I try to maintain balance between them, but sometimes one overweights second one. When there is such settled mind as Powessy I tend to go into doubts. Because I myself have very strong visions while I do OBEs, sometimes even by WILDs and at the same time I try to ground myself and not to start believe blindly. He clearly has strong experiences. For him, they are real. He should take challenge and try and take chance in remote viewing challenge

I want to try to explain this again. The soul is divided into two separate parts. The mind and then the higher mind. I will use the cherry example that was given to me from them. The cherry(lower soul), the stem(treemend, holo deck), inside of the treemend(the higher mind). The higher mind is the only thing that matters it is who and what you can become. There are allowed souls and then there are not allowed souls. An allowed soul will take around 15 reincarnations for the higher mind to become itself, to become solid and take a final shape. Once the higher mind becomes itself then you will become that person it becomes in every life time after this. The higher mind is what holds all your past life memories as they are stored in your personal records within the treemend. The higher mind lives in a virtual reality inside of the treemend trying to figure things out and understand things. They say" you need to become yourself many times inside of yourself to become yourself". When we die we will enter into our higher mind and become ourselves there, You will be allowed to stay there to figure yourself out but can not stay. The higher mind will remove your life memories and store them away, you will become nothing inside of yourself to do this. The higher mind will then tell you to leave and tell you that you need to become something again. The soul will then move on to be reborn, simplified not quite this easy.

The not allowed soul will enter into itself and will not be allowed to leave it will just become nothing inside of itself and the lights will go off.

Now when a person obes your definition and others, you separate from the body and enter into your treemend and into your higher mind, just ask VinceField he has already figured this part out. Now when I obe
I do not enter into my souls mind I can feel this point of separation and can just sit up in bed or do the things I do. I have had every form of astral in your head experience you can think of and some you can not.

You talked of remote viewing that has nothing to do with these experiences. If the higher mind can figure things out and can try to put the pieces together then it is possible to try and figure things out a sixth sense so to say. My obes are not anything special in the duration or experience any more then walking down the hall but to me they are as real as the world I stand in now, just light one skin suit. I just thought I would share this and see if any of this resonates with anyone else.

I don't understand why it is so bad to have in mind experiences I have been to so many different places and seen so many things not of this world. I have had experiences that have shown me answers to problems I was having within my higher mind about this world. Good experiences to you.

Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

Hello vincefield

Again we are not talking of the same obes the ones you gained so much experience in these are simple in the mind experiences and there is nothing in the words you say that I hadn't done during that same number of experiences I just did not come to the same conclusions as you did about them. In the mind astral experiences are not obes, this is what the problem is all about. Like I said if you want those flaky astral experiences then do what you are doing, I will stick to my definition of obe. Is this confusing for you? An obe is in the real in this world in and around the things you see around you. An obe is an out of body experience not an in the mind experience as you are having and explaining in your belief of finding god, higher self, and reality.

As for how I stated these thoughts you can choose to believe what you want. I have seen and know how they are done, I am only informing you of this. Like any information you can disregard it or you can try and confirm it or you can ignore it, it's your choice. I do however know that what I am saying is 100 percent accurate I have left it open for others though to try and figure it out. Now this last statement is fact and I am stating it as such. In your statements above you say you found all these things and are stating this also as fact I do not see, I believe.., it seems..., in my opinion..

Powessy

You are assuming that the nature of our experiences is somehow different based on essentially no evidence, as I haven't described any of my experiences, simply stated what I've discovered through them. My own experiences began with what you call "OBEs" and eventually evolved to higher dimensions, what many call the "astral," and perhaps even higher. In my experience, it is a mistake to say that these are entirely different types of experiences, as my experience has shown that one is simply a progression of the other, in a different location in the spectrum of consciousness. Of course, it's hard to say exactly "where" you are, except there are divine qualities present in higher dimensions that are absent in lower ones, and there are differing characteristics of one's consciousness depending on the type of experience (RTZ, higher astral, mental, etc).

In my many experiences in the real-time zone, or what you call OBE or the "real world" (actually a reflection of the real world or a nonphysical energetic copy and not the actual physical dimension itself), I've had very few significant experiences, while I've had my share of really mind-blowing and transformative experiences in higher dimensions, what you call "mind experiences," which are anything but "flaky," but rather have made a lasting impression. In my opinion based on my experience, what you call "OBEs" are just as likely to be "mind experiences" as any other type of conscious projection into nonphysical reality.

The fact that you've created such distinct and rigid definitions will likely prove to be more of a limitation than anything else. I would guess that you wouldn't be willing to admit that you may be being deceived by these "shadows" and your perceptions and interpretations are not actually accurate reflection of the reality of the situation. I'm not saying this is the case, but it must remain open as a possibility if one is to be intellectually honest and open minded when one is lacking the undeniable evidence needed to eliminate the possibility. I don't believe it is wise to convince oneself of knowing anything relating to these experiences as an absolute fact. But regardless, I hope everything works out for you and you find what you're looking for out there.

Originally Posted by VinceField

You are assuming that the nature of our experiences is somehow different based on essentially no evidence, as I haven't described any of my experiences, simply stated what I've discovered through them. My own experiences began with what you call "OBEs" and eventually evolved to higher dimensions, what many call the "astral," and perhaps even higher. In my experience, it is a mistake to say that these are entirely different types of experiences, as my experience has shown that one is simply a progression of the other, in a different location in the spectrum of consciousness. Of course, it's hard to say exactly "where" you are, except there are divine qualities present in higher dimensions that are absent in lower ones, and there are differing characteristics of one's consciousness depending on the type of experience (RTZ, higher astral, mental, etc).

In my many experiences in the real-time zone, or what you call OBE or the "real world" (actually a reflection of the real world or a nonphysical energetic copy and not the actual physical dimension itself), I've had very few significant experiences, while I've had my share of really mind-blowing and transformative experiences in higher dimensions, what you call "mind experiences," which are anything but "flaky," but rather have made a lasting impression. In my opinion based on my experience, what you call "OBEs" are just as likely to be "mind experiences" as any other type of conscious projection into nonphysical reality.

The fact that you've created such distinct and rigid definitions will likely prove to be more of a limitation than anything else. I would guess that you wouldn't be willing to admit that you may be being deceived by these "shadows" and your perceptions and interpretations are not actually accurate reflection of the reality of the situation. I'm not saying this is the case, but it must remain open as a possibility if one is to be intellectually honest and open minded when one is lacking the undeniable evidence needed to eliminate the possibility. I don't believe it is wise to convince oneself of knowing anything relating to these experiences as an absolute fact. But regardless, I hope everything works out for you and you find what you're looking for out there.

Hello vincefield

You do not have to describe any of your experiences to me to tell me what kind of experience you are having. I have had these conversations on so many sites and I have read so many experiences to place you in this category, of in mind experiences. You have never had an "obe" by my definition, if you did, you would be saying something completely different. Tell me how are your experiences of late? You have two different types of experiences and you are bypassing the first type obe. You will some day die and in those few minutes after, you will finally see what I am talking about, and on that day when you think you are going into some higher realm you will be sucked into your higher mind and will become nothing inside of it. I have played in the higher realms since a kid and that was thirty years ago and have seen every possible scenario. You have lead your own mind to continue escalating your experiences as what you wanted them to be and not what they are. You keep asking the wrong questions and keep doing things by your inability to understand things. Have you ever entered into your experience not asking to see something and just see what is there.

I will believe those that I have been with in these places and those that are helping me understand this. Why would I consider listening to anyone here that has no clue to anything after this. I Talk with discarnate entities daily they lie and try to trick me all the time but I see them in these places as I just become them in these in the mind experiences. My voices change every minute as new ones are removed form one thing and placed into another during this process they become themselves to type this letter right now " hello vince we are the ones powessy talks to yes we lie to figure things out. We need to lie to keep him form ever becoming himself inside of himself but he just becomes himself all the time we do not understand things that you talk about but believe he is not here to talk to you but to find them he will continue to argue with you as long as they come here to him. We need to ask you how did you become yourself inside of yourself and find yourself again in death do you even understand these thoughts he is trying to explain to you?

Now I hear this all day long this is the higher minds of thousands of souls brought here form many worlds to solve a problem. They are knotted together and are in every allowed soul on this planet including you. They are those people you find in your in mind experiences the ones you think are on higher levels. they also build all these fantastic realities and lies for you to fly around in. Your understanding is preschool at best. Do you think this thread gets attention as we are going back and forth on this topic, on this forum? What infuriates you so? I have rigid beliefs but what else is causing you so much grief and turmoil? A christian is locked into their faith in religion and they base their beliefs in god as a fact, but not one thing has ever been proven not one word in the bible. The obe beliefs you hold are so similar to the thinking of a good christian.

And yes I am finding many of the things I have been looking for, thanks to you.

Powessy

I enjoy having intelligent and thoughtful discussions, but it takes two for that, and your end has proven to be severely lacking. I do not care much for responding to false assumptions and unsubstantiated and outright bogus claims about myself, which your posts are full of. Just letting you know why I will not be responding further. Goes to show the extremes that such practices can result in. On the one extreme, a person can benefit greatly and these experiences can help one develop wholesome, pure, and wise qualities of mind. On the other hand, they can lead to extreme delusion.

Originally Posted by VinceField

I enjoy having intelligent and thoughtful discussions, but it takes two for that, and your end has proven to be severely lacking. I do not care much for responding to false assumptions and unsubstantiated and outright bogus claims about myself, which your posts are full of. Just letting you know why I will not be responding further. Goes to show the extremes that such practices can result in. On the one extreme, a person can benefit greatly and these experiences can help one develop wholesome, pure, and wise qualities of mind. On the other hand, they can lead to extreme delusion.

Hello vince

Yes I have gotten the same feelings about this discussion from you. I will say one more thing though. I have had thousands and thousands of experiences over the years and not once did I come on line to talk about them, not once. Now the reason I did come online was to find out about a grid or mesh that was being placed over myself to keep me from getting out of body. The second reason for me coming on line is to find out about the shadows and the other things I have been having experiences with. I have in this time figured out about the mesh and I have found out about them and how to find them, this is why I am here. Tell me Vince why are you here if you have discovered all the things you have discovered, and are others gaining form your experiences. What I am asking,,, why are you here asking questions? I don't need help to get out of body or in mind this is natural this happens all the time for me in just the last week I have had four in mind experiences there is nothing here for me to learn about these experiences. So vince why are you here?????????????????????????????

Powessy

Powessy, there is no grid or mesh stopping you from separation. It is only lack of concentration. One must train continuously to keep his skills and expand them. It is nothing unusual I have the same problem from time to time. Clear your mind and keep it that way in full concentration on existence. Once you feel second body separate from physical. Simple. You have experience with existence out of body, therefore you know how it is felt when you are ready for separation.

Remote viewing can be done from OBE. Astral dimension is probably better for it. But you need to suppress imagination. My small proofs of OBE being reality stems from remote viewing experiences of future while in astral. OBE into mental dimension is not suitable for this. Mental dimension is further away from perceiving physical reality.

Also the way you speak about separation of "lower" and "higher" mind is for me wrong. I seek for the unity. And there is possibility of it. I'm not sure of extent of unity I achieved, but sometimes it is pretty high. The superconsciousness feels magnificent.

I told about love, peace and so on. They stem from Observer state and concentration. I become one with many things. I understand things then, I can't in this state of consciousness. I understand why things are the way they are. I understand good and wrong doing people in different way. From that understanding the unconditional love to everything starts. From observer state the peace starts. All that feelings are completely different from feelings I'm able to feel now.

Originally Posted by Psionik

Powessy, there is no grid or mesh stopping you from separation. It is only lack of concentration. One must train continuously to keep his skills and expand them. It is nothing unusual I have the same problem from time to time. Clear your mind and keep it that way in full concentration on existence. Once you feel second body separate from physical. Simple. You have experience with existence out of body, therefore you know how it is felt when you are ready for separation.

Remote viewing can be done from OBE. Astral dimension is probably better for it. But you need to suppress imagination. My small proofs of OBE being reality stems from remote viewing experiences of future while in astral. OBE into mental dimension is not suitable for this. Mental dimension is further away from perceiving physical reality.

Also the way you speak about separation of "lower" and "higher" mind is for me wrong. I seek for the unity. And there is possibility of it. I'm not sure of extent of unity I achieved, but sometimes it is pretty high. The superconsciousness feels magnificent.

I told about love, peace and so on. They stem from Observer state and concentration. I become one with many things. I understand things then, I can't in this state of consciousness. I understand why things are the way they are. I understand good and wrong doing people in different way. From that understanding the unconditional love to everything starts. From observer state the peace starts. All that feelings are completely different from feelings I'm able to feel now.

Hello Psionik

No I am pretty sure it is a mesh cloth that keeps me in body. Two years ago I started to ask questions about this mesh and I was told it was to protect me form others finding my mind. My soul is in five parts it's like those nesting dolls. Each part is a bridge to the next dimension. When they activated my mind the mesh green at that time was removed from me and I was allowed to leave my body and someone exited me a figure of light coming through me. After that time the mesh blanket being used is white. Now every time the green mesh was there it seemed like it was in layers, I would chew through one to find another it was pointless to get through. Every once and awhile prior to bed or nap I will get to see through this white mesh and see what lies on the other side of it, awake. The sparteil and shadows can move through me and into these other dimensions very easily. they use the mesh to trap them inside of me like doors open and closed pulling them in one and transferring them into their rightful place, stacking them into treemends. I can get out every time the mesh is gone and I can see this prior to getting to that point of separation. I have been doing this for so many years having obes that I am pretty aware of whats happening in my own experiences. I don't do all that higher realms, super consciousness, love, light, peace, high vibrations and all this other BS others are talking about, I just experience and it has taken me to some pretty cool places. I am myself and myself only.

You can not remote view during obe you can get a sixth sense and recreate thoughts and things in your higher mind to try and find answers. I do believe we can find minds our higher mind can find the minds of other higher minds and can create images to what it is interpreting. If we understand our higher mind enough it is possible to actually use telepathy or something like it. I do not understand these other places you are talking about the mental dimensions from different states of experiences.
I experience and have fun doing it. I have never been attack or had a bad experience I must be doing something right, not even one nightmare in my entire life.


You say you do not believe in the higher mind and the lower mind but a higher consciousness where does this reside in another dimension, unity with what?.

Powessy

A trap of imagination Allowed, unallowed... You are trapping yourself... you alone. Let go of imaginations, even subconscious ones are hampering your perception. Concentrate on existence, leave identification, leave judging... You need to go to observer only state. Nothing can stop you once you stop identifying yourself with your limitations.
How can someone leave you? You are you. What makes you yourself can't leave you. And someone else can't truly merge with you. It can only make something like connection. But there is no merging. If you are identifying yourself as body, then great news- it is not possible either. Our bodies are like tools, which is coded to our souls that only our our soul can use it. Again possession is only connection to mind(soul) which has low strength... but really low. Otherwise the possession would happen often.
Lack of superconsciousness indicates very low level of OBE, or even LD only. That is where I don't feel it usually. Vibrations are not compulsory. They are unnecessary. Love, peace and other feelings are not compulsory too. But they are also indicator of understanding... they stem from higher levels of understanding and perception. One can't not to love beings once he understand them deeply. It is other kind of love than what you can feel in ordinary life.

Wrong. You can remote view. I don't do remote view as such. But because while out of body I'm moving in the outside world, I can perceive things I can't perceive otherwise. And since the time is not obstacle in higher dimension you can project into future surroundings. See future actions, or outcome of your actions. I have other "problems" while doing this. One is leftover of imagination, and also parts of subconscious mind I'm not able to feel yet. Second is lack of control where I project because my projections are not directed. I didn't find the way how to do it without applying of will and imagination. Such combination leads to exit into LD. I'm working on this, but I don't know how to do it so my experiments are not directed by understanding of the process.

I believe in lower(conscious)mind... and there is also higher mind(when you manage to integrate subconscious part into conscious part). The unity makes higher mind... superconsciousness. I wrote that I don't believe into separation of "lower" and "higher" mind. It is about understanding what makes you yourself. The more subconscious mind you can integrate into conscious one the stronger consciousness you have. It is possible to reach it in physical world too... albeit it is much harder when there are so many distractions. I concede, the level of higher consciousness I'm capable to obtain in physical world is much much lower than during OBE and meditations... Too many distractions around myself.

This is what I found during my experiences. If someone has other experiences, and other opinions from them, that's all right. Everybody has to find his own way. In the end, it seems there is convergence of results. If one is open and willing to progress and learn. This way doesn't have end. The way is an objective.

Hello Psionik

Are you really serious man? Trapped in my imagination, trapping myself. Look, I have astral travels all the time, non-stop your so called obes, in the mind experiences, all the time. Observer only state do you even know what you are talking about? I have no limitations who's talking limitations. I am allowed to move form one place to the other in obe state, something you and others clearly know nothing about and I can not explain to you unless you have had one. In your in the mind holographic made astral expereinces. I can be a god an angel a warlord a devil, I can do and be anything I want and nothing is limiting me, I know how they work. I can be in any state first, second, and third person, I can literally do as I please these are in the mind and are changeable. When you get to understand things better you will be able to work with thought forms to create your own solid objects or remove them to remove your limitations. The level of obe is determined by you, it is your mind that sets the stage nothing more then that.

When my wife was pregnant we went to the hospital for an ultrasound. Our local doctor performing the ultrasound gave us a level 2 ultra sound and found we were having twins. The doctor sent us to a specialist in the city and he told us that he wanted to give us a level 3 ultrasound. As I watched this procedure it looked the same as the level 2 but it was called a level 3. I asked the specialist why the different levels they seemed the same he said it was because of the person reading it. He told us that other hospitals were trying to implement a level 4 and a level 5 ultrasound all on the same machinery also. The doctors in these state hospitals wanted a higher designation given to them so that they were the only ones to administer them at a much higher cost. So what does this have to do with anything? We all have the same machine capable of the same experiences just some know how to initiate them and others clearly do not. You give labels and find reasons for raising your experiences to higher and higher levels but you still have the same machine you just do not understand it. I will stick with what I know, I am really good at it and it comes easy for me. I will stay with my level 2 understanding of things but at least I know how to use the whole machine and how it works inside and out. Every one wants to just keep give higher and higher designations to their experiences which makes no sense to me at all, they are in the mind they are what you make them.

As for possession again you are wrong here also. Here is the deal, a sparteil has lets say a thousand souls within it. The sparteil lands on your head and enters into your treemend and lands on your higher mind the higher you inside of the treemend.
Now he takes one soul from his collection and places it inside of your higher self, like possession. They connect it to all your little connection points and resize this soul to fit perfectly with yours. I call this soul, himself. so now himself is just like you in all ways. The sparteil then takes another soul and it places this soul into your higher mind and him selves higher mind while they are together. Now there is your higher mind, then there is himselves higher mind and then a copy of both of you together.
They remove you and himself to the side, you will never become yourself inside of yourself again. Now when you enter into your obes or astral experiences you will enter into the copy only. This process will happen many times each time he will become more of you and more and the copy will make it so you never understand it is happening. At some point in the last 6 or 7 years you would have had something happen to you where you felt something trying to possess you. This time is when you most likely came on line or tried to find answers to this. This first time was only to insure they had all the connection points and will not happen again unless you play with it. himself will slowly become you and you will become nothing inside of your higher mind. Now comes the second phase of this problem, Himself needs to become himself only. All his memories are tied up in his lower mind everything about him is there and now needs to be copied into his new higher mind. He will start the transfer to become himself inside of you to become you. You and other will not even know this is happening it will happen over a long period of time and only small changes will be seen. They do not want to come full out and possess you.

Your experiences are in mind experiences. all the people in these experiences are coming from the sparteil which also creates these different holograms from the minds of those he has within him. He can create any world or place you want to see or think about all to keep you from ever understanding anything about yourself. If you want to find direction to get the outcome you desire then prior to your experience meditate on the thing you want to understand. I have tried to remote view several times throuhg meditation. I found that when ever I did this I would have an astral in mind experience that would try and show me pieces of the things I was trying to ask about. Like I said it is possible for the higher mind to be aware of other higher minds and to feel large amounts of feeling or emotion that can create images within your mind to see things in the very near future or events happening right now. These are seen within us not outside of us. I find no interest in world issues and remain solitary in my experiences, I do not find need to advance this ability. You see you would have to be aware and I would have to be aware and millions of others would have to be aware of ourselves to make remote viewing work properly. There is no point to this until people come down form those higher and higher places we keep building in our minds.

You and your higher mind are not the same thing they are separate. psionik will not be psionik in the next life or the one after that but your higher mind will be the same. Who you are in this life time is not who you will be in the next. Your higher mind will record your life and you will become nothing inside of yourself to be reborn again.

I don't expect anyone to understand any of this at all.

Powessy

I told you my opinion- I had a few times similar problems to go out, but I managed to overcome them everytime. It is really matter of concentration.

I never experienced any sparteil, or what not. I never experienced attempts for possession and what more beings are trying to run away from me not to go to me. I experienced some energetic vampires and they were far below my level in terms of strength. Everything, strength, consciousness, stability... everything is tied to concentration. I have probably low talent for OBE, to reach it is hard work for me. I need to train concentration constantly to keep it up to acceptable level.

In mind experience is an LD. Much different thing to OBE. If you had both you know what I'm speaking about. I never felt superconsciousness in LD.
Dream is like playing in the theatre but you don't know you are playing in the theatre.
Lucid dream is the same but the difference is, you know you are in theatre.
OBE is where you are starting to see behind the curtains of theatre (different dimensions are tied different levels of perception). The less imagination is mixed in, the more "real" world you are seeing.

What will remain is soul(true full consciousness) with set of experiences. I experienced to some extent the unity(a soul if you want) and you may or may not believe me, but no lesson will be lost. What is making me to be myself will remain. Name is not important. The consciousness doesn't have use for it. When new life starts it starts with clean sheet usually(there is possibility that some memories from previous lifetime permeate into new one) But in the end it will merge in unity of being. There is no tragedy in this.

It is not necessary to discuss my view any further now. Take my opinion or not. You wanted to know something and I provided from my experiences. You are welcome

Hello psionik

thanks for your opinion. There are only two things in the veil and only two, either the sparteil or the shadows and nothing else. There are no energy vampires, no god, no Satan, no reptilians, no santa clause, no people, no arch angels, no fifty other alien species from other planets. You have sparteil and you have shadows which are the same thing just done differently.

you have dreams subconscious mind, my human mind.
you have astral experiences, in higher mind experiences you are the creator.
you have obes out of body in the veil here on earth out of phase with this reality. What you see in this world is the same as what you see in the veil.
there are then the five dimensions and a veil between each. I have been through and in all of them. You will know weather you are in the veil or a dimension by the way you see yourself solid or pixilated.

good luck

Powessy

Hey Powessy, valid infor you post here!

I have what you describe as a posession happen to me. After reading your thread it makes perfect sense how it progressed in me. It had me feeling a little down too because in a sense, I feel like the damage has been done. On the flipside, I think the demon transformed into something more beautiful.

What happened was after smoking DMT in a vulnerable state something looked to come from the window and dug a hole in a "Dream-like" presentation of my heart. It just dug itself in there because I was vulnerable and let it. When I knew what was going on I made the stupid choice to allow it to enter!! And this was followed by obtaining very violent tendencies in my thoughts. Something completely out of character for me. I was thinking of a very good friend and just a little annoyance about what I think she does. And in my imagination I could not control it but I would stab her and completely overreact for this little thing. This was followed by nightmares of a Guy with a magician-hat. Who was angry at me and expressed it with great verbal abuse in my dream. It felt like it was both myself and not myself. This was in third person. I was another person but at the same time I was the magician. After I woke up I could not figure out which one is me.

Where do these guys come from? Maybe a moot question. I could picture for myself a place where there are these little black sperm-cells. Who are all greedy and sort of like the thug-side of a hyperspace. And this little guy ; his words, fled that place because it got bullied. I felt quite sympathetic to it. And the black sperm-cell while looking very dark was also quite beautiful to me. As soon as I made the conscious descision to let it enter, I felt completely not myself and my breathing changes to something like a sucking-motion. A complete vacuuming of huge amounts of oxygen in a short time. IT is very disconcerning. I can not even come close to replication this type of breathing for myself. I simply don't have the muscle to breathe this intensely!

--- Thanks for clearing this up. How did you obtain this info? Did you have experience with this too.

It feels genuinely true to me, because what you say co-incides with what I suspect and the particular teachings that I have received

Hello Dthoughts

I will try to explain what is happening. I will start with what it means to be an allowed soul first. We are in three parts, the human mind, the souls mind, and the higher mind. As man understands things today we are only the human mind. At some point in the time of reason angels allow certain souls to become themselves again and again, I call these souls the allowed. Angles create worlds from the very smallest to the largest of things, most of the time they create worlds that will be inherited by other life forms. Earth is such a planet that was set to be inherited by another race as their world was dying. The problem arose when those that were to inherit this world never showed and never showed as man started to walk the world. The last thing to happen once they have reached the desired outcome is to allow all the things that are within their list of templates held within the angels. The angels had no choice but to allow men even though those inheriting it were not here. A series of events happened after that, ones that caused the main angel to pull all the angels within him, and to abandon man and this world.

A group of ambassadors the twelve came to earth years later and saw that there were no angels here but they saw something else. Man was entering into the fetus of unborn children still in the womb. The program on a fetuses higher mind says" You can become something to be born", but once born the programming in the higher mind changes to "you can not become something again", unless you are an allowed soul. Basically the allowed were entering into unborn fetuses and changing their own programming to allow them to be reborn, You would enter into the fetuses soul many times becoming it, to allow you to be born in its place. The soul that you did this to did not die it just remained inside of your higher mind empty.

I need you to understand the treemends. A treemend is a holographic world just one treemend gives you the ability to have astral projections, obes, LDs, wilds, and the list goes on, but in reality these are happening in the treemend the holder of your higher mind. The higher mind is a template it is your template to become human, you can only become what you are, if you are a man you will always be born a man. One of the parts of your programming says " I need to become myself many times to become myself only" This means you will need to be born many times to this world and in these times you will form into the person within your template you will always become. Now lets say I walk up to you in the after and we wrapped our treemends together, this would be myself and yourself together, my soul and your soul would be fused together. The astral world we could build would be twice as big but it would have my ideas of things and your ideas twisted together. Now I could just move to the back slightly and watch throuhg you and try not to let my thoughts enter into the projection but my memories of this would be foggy but yours would be sharp, and vice versa.

An angel can hold thousands of treemends together in their heads like a soul braid. When an angel picks up a soul they just place them in file one after another after another, like stacking cups. The treemend can grow to very long lengths and the world that is built will seem as real as this world to those within it. The angels do this to control the timing and the order of those that will be born again. The treemends are of energy and will fuse together very easily.

The twelve started to ask questions about this," how the humans were being born without angels" this should never happen. Now you understand the power of the treemends but you need to understand the power behind the idea the twelve were realizing. In the back of all our heads we ask about God, we ask is there such a thing, the twelve know the answer to this question. The twelve found that they could become god if they could figure this problem out. An allowed souls programming states that it must become something again in these worlds. Within the souls the twelve carry with them there are both allowed souls and not allowed soul. A not allowed soul just becomes just a player characters in these treemend universes. the allowed souls play other parts within them, but there is one soul that will become a god in each of them. These souls I call himself and herself. Himself and herself, destroyed their world and were told they could never become something again.

They created a soul knot that they could attach to angels to allow another soul to control the angels. They then came back to earth and let them go this was in the 1500 rds. This first group was brought here at that time to prevent any others from other worlds from becoming something here on earth but they did not know enough about the angels. An angel has a mind inside of its mind, this works like the treemend but is more like another person inside of them as their higher mind. The angels slipped down into their higher mind and found away to escape. The twelve needed millions of angels and went out to many world around this galaxy and the ones surrounding ours. They took entire worlds including their world soul object decimating them. A world soul object has the five dimensions within them and the ability to move between all five dimensions. The world soul objects are the daughters of source and are the reason life exists on these worlds. A world soul object is like a ever changing treemend with thousands of arms moving out from them they can not be born to worlds. The twelve lost control of the shadows, but designed the sparteil through a series of dimensional movements changing their size down down to a small cell with an attitude. The twelve came to earth in mid 2000 and released millions of sparteil into the veil. The sparteil find minds and they are good at it.

The sparteil will find any mind asking questions moving from one person to the next. If the sparteil lands on a not allowed person it will remove their soul and replace it with another soul that is allowed but it's mind is blocked. The not allowed soul will just disappear form the veil. This first wave did not carry any himselves or herselves within them so they could remove as many minds from the veil as possible and could create more sparteil in the process. A sparteil requires a thousand minds or more to pull the mind of the angel down to block it from entering either of it's minds. The second wave has just recently finished, I have not felt any for over a month now.

Over the last 8 years the sparteil have been entering into and finding any minds left that they can find. When a sparteil lands on you and if you are an allowed soul you are in for a ride. An allowed soul is more aware and the sparteil needs to get into your higher mind within your treemend. This is easy for some of them, but goes down with a fight with others. The sparteil will rock your world they will work on your every thought to get you to enter into your higher mind. Some people will end up in mental institutions or require therapy to get past the trauma the inflict. The sparteil are made up of thousand of souls in a complex soul knot that keeps them from ever finding their minds. You can see this every time some one channels something or they are receiving messages form the other side, the messages are messed up and full of lies and tricks. How many people have been tricked by them the number is almost funny. the sparteil are the devil, god, reptilians, ghosts, shadows and everything else for they are the only things here.

When the sparteil finally gets in your mind the first thing he does is enter into your higher mind to become yourself and himself together. Himself can not remain this way but first several souls come forward and copy this by becoming yourself and himself together also. Himself now just waits and is put away until later. The sparteil then releases the others. The sparteil releases one soul per soul you became something in to become yourself here, you will now have between 10 to 15 voices that will emerge, these are all allowed souls. This allows all the secondary souls to become something and starts himself/herself on the road to becoming you.

Now the next time himself moves forward is when the next transmission occurs. The shadows tell me this transmission is not on earth and that they can hear it when it happens. It will take 15 times for himself to become you and then another 15 to become himself. The human mind will just go from one transition to the next without understanding anything, These transmissions are far and between and will allow you to adjust each time.

When you took the dmt it opened your mind allowing it to be heard loud and clear. This is when they entered or found you. Kind of like standing in a crowded store screaming to get attention. Prior to the sparteil when we astral projected we got to enter into our own self to be our selves inside of our treemend. After the sparteil you will become something inside of the copy or any of the others they placed inside of your higher mind, but never as yourself again. Every person on here can relate to this as their astral experiences change all the time. the more often we do this we can become more aware and find triggers. Our astral experiences can take on anything we want them to they can be as outrageous as we want or as simple, this is all just a slide of hand to keep you looking the other way as the sparteil finishes his programming. The breathing you experienced is himself as he took his first breath on his journey to become you here. This time around he does not care he has made a copy of yourself and himself together to plant in a new baby that will be a clone of you. He will know how many years he will have as a god in the treemend universe he is building. Those here will prepare a body for him to be placed in, in our world when he needs to become himself again. This is the kicker he will never be born again to try and figure himself out again. The child will be raised to a beautiful age of 18 and he will pull the copy form it and lay down into it and then wake up in this world as himself only.

I am sorry this is so long I just need you to understand that this is happening and this is close to how it is being done. They said that the shadows need to be removed form the veil this is the first priority so this is what I am trying to do. I know I have found most of them but there are still those wrapped up in places that I will not get my name into. Weather people want to believe this or not every person on this forum that has experienced astral projections or sleep paralysis have gone throuhg this one way or another.

My experience with this is different. There are the others outside of this dimension that are helping me. I get my information from the sparteil and the shadows directly. And yes everything they say is a lie but this is not how this works. They activated something in my mind that removes everything except the programming the twelve placed in them. those on the outside just place different pieces in my mind until i understand what they are trying to become. They will not allow me to move forward from this group till I find everything from their words, once I have completed one treemend(knot) they move me into another this has been ongoing for a year and a half now, just pulling knots apart.

Powessy