Thread: Is Astral Plane The Same With Dream Plane??

No. According to those that have experienced OBEs and astral protections, they say that anything you do while there is real. Move an object in an OBE, it will move in the waking plane. Dreams are only in your head, if you create a zombie apocalypse in a dream, it wont be there when you wake up. It's just in your head.

Short answer is yes. "Astral plane" and "dream plane" is the same thing. And if we talk about guys who moves things IRL while being out of body (if we assume it is possible), they have to be not in "astral plane" or something but in "physical plane".

Originally Posted by LAUR

how we understand the difference?

I've tried to extort this info from guys who believe both in LDs and APs but they could not give any decent answers.

Dreams are only in your head, if you create a zombie apocalypse in a dream, it wont be there when you wake up. It's just in your head.

Actually, if you believe in astral and will do AP and then wake up, there will no be zombies around either.

thank you

Originally Posted by Phantasos

Short answer is yes. "Astral plane" and "dream plane" is the same thing.

They are not exactly the same, though it could appear so.

There is not an easy answer for this one, and often symbology and semantics get in the way when one ponders over this.

For some, the term "dream" covers all that is not physical, in this eartly plane or whatever, it's easy to get lost when trying to describe something that is beyond words, words are very restricting.

The difference is that, when one Astral Project you leave your body with the soul, when you dream the soul does not seperate from the body.

Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

The difference is that, when one Astral Project you leave your body with the soul, when you dream the soul does not seperate from the body.

But how do you know have your soul leaved the body or not (even if we assume that (1) there is a soul and (2) it can leave the body soomehow somewhere)? Consider the situation: I use one of the methods which can be used for either WILD or AP, and my intention is to either WILD or AP with 50/50 probability. So how do I know did I end up on "dream plane" or "astral plane"? If there is no clear distinctions between them, then we can safely assume it is one thing, case closed.

Originally Posted by Phantasos

But how do you know have your soul leaved the body or not (even if we assume that (1) there is a soul and (2) it can leave the body soomehow somewhere)? Consider the situation: I use one of the methods which can be used for either WILD or AP, and my intention is to either WILD or AP with 50/50 probability. So how do I know did I end up on "dream plane" or "astral plane"? If there is no clear distinctions between them, then we can safely assume it is one thing, case closed.

Case closed

I am sure that when one experience an AP, the person will know.

Right now you don't know what experiencing Astral projecting is, you can't assume, consider or tell say there are no distinctions between dream or AP.

Your questions will only be answered when you AP yourself, everything else is just presumptions.

Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

Your questions will only be answered when you AP yourself, everything else is just presumptions.

Judging from your elusive answer, I suppose you also do not know how one may distinguish AP from WILD? Have you APed or WILDed yourself?

I've looked through my library on LDs and APs, and found that some experienced astralonauts are also agree on the point that it is one phenomenon. For example, Mark Pritchard, author of 8-week course in Astral Travel, writes:

Every night with sleep, dreams occur, whether they are remembered or not. In dreams
the images from the subconscious become real, and one exists in the world that has
been projected. Not all dreams are projections of the subconscious however; some
actually take place in the Astral plane, while others are scenes or places that are put
by ones own Being or by awakened Beings (Masters).
This happens because with sleep, we leave behind the physical body, which holds the
psyche onto the physical plane and sensory impressions and enter the fifth dimension,
what we call the Astral plane. We are connected then t the physical body through a
o
silver cord, which makes it impossible to not come back to the body after we have
woken up. So, while we dream messages are sent from us, the psyche, in the Astral, to our physical body, including the brain and vice versa, through that silver cord.

As you see, according to author of this course, every dream takes place in Astral plane, but subconscious also take part in forming images on Astral plane. In this case author solved the discussed problem by moving everything on Astral plane, i.e. WILD and AP are the same, according to this model.

Very basically put, the Astral Plane is the dream dimension, but at the same time it is not just that. It would be more
accurate to say the dream dimension is part of the Astral. From another perspective, the Astral is like a huge mind net,
catching and holding all thoughts, memories, fantasies, and dreams of every living thing in the world (and all other
worlds for that matter.) In short, its contents are created by the collective consciousness of the universe, and you
could say 'exploring the Astral' is almost another way of saying we are 'exploring the inner mind of the universe'.
"All of the dreams people have form a mass dream framework. Dreams exist at other levels, and physically of course
affect the body state. In such ways, the world's actions are worked out in mass dream communications that are at the
same time public and private.

By: William Ember

http://www.bodymindspiritcenter.info...Plane'.pdf

Originally Posted by Phantasos

Judging from your elusive answer, I suppose you also do not know how one may distinguish AP from WILD? Have you APed or WILDed yourself?

I could give you a list over distinguishes, but again it would just presumptions. I have not yet experienced WILD and AP, that is why I refrain from going deeper into it.

Originally Posted by Phantasos

I've looked through my library on LDs and APs, and found that some experienced astralonauts are also agree on the point that it is one phenomenon. For example, Mark Pritchard, author of 8-week course in Astral Travel, writes:

Quote:
Every night with sleep, dreams occur, whether they are remembered or not. In dreams
the images from the subconscious become real, and one exists in the world that has
been projected. Not all dreams are projections of the subconscious however; some
actually take place in the Astral plane, while others are scenes or places that are put
by ones own Being or by awakened Beings (Masters).
This happens because with sleep, we leave behind the physical body, which holds the
psyche onto the physical plane and sensory impressions and enter the fifth dimension,
what we call the Astral plane. We are connected then t the physical body through a
o
silver cord, which makes it impossible to not come back to the body after we have
woken up. So, while we dream messages are sent from us, the psyche, in the Astral, to our physical body, including the brain and vice versa, through that silver cord.

As you see, according to author of this course, every dream takes place in Astral plane, but subconscious also take part in forming images on Astral plane. In this case author solved the discussed problem by moving everything on Astral plane, i.e. WILD and AP are the same, according to this model.

Read the bolded carefully:

"Every night with sleep, dreams occur, whether they are remembered or not. In dreams
the images from the subconscious become real, and one exists in the world that has
been projected. Not all dreams are projections of the subconscious however; some
actually take place in the Astral plane"

"Some", as you see, the author says that some dreams takes plance in the astral plane. Some is not all, this text does not concur you theory.

Please read my first post in this thread again, where I say terms are used diffentently, semantic and symbology gets in the way ! This goes with "AP'ers" too.

As your first sentence in this thread "Short answer is yes." What about the long answer?

A great example of this symbology, Mark Pritchard talks about this silver cord. The silver cord is a manifastation of the mind, a belief!

Many AP'ers won't see this silver cord, why? Because they have never heard about it! The silver cord has great metaphorical value! The link between the body and soul, if broken your body dies..

One has to acknowledge the limitedness of LANGUAGE, words are just symbols, words are symbols of expression, not expression itself.

Ideas and conscepts, they are transcripts of the mind. Prejudice, belief, origin, history, vocabulary, words, tongue, concepts, abstracts, labels, archetypes, fear, illusions, percecption and etc. are filters of the truth or the real meaning. We can neither ask for a definition where there is none.

We have to experience it directly. One filter, our own is enough, too many and you can't see through all the dirt.


Edit: I think this radio interview would interest many of you.

Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

"Some", as you see, the author says that some dreams takes plance in the astral plane. Some is not all, this text does not concur you theory.

Here is a couple of cites from the same course:

The astral is one of two planes of the fifth dimension; it is the place where dreams
occur, where mystical teachings are given and where the deceased go.

And here is a direct answer (I missed it at first reading):

Is astral travel the same as lucid dreaming?

Astral travel includes lucid dreaming and also travel after a conscious projection. It is
being self-aware in the Astral plane of the fifth dimension.

Said by astralonaut himself!

Though I do not really agree with author about this Astral thing, but he have a coherent view on things he believes in, which is clearly explained and asked questions are answered.

As your first sentence in this thread "Short answer is yes." What about the long answer?

The long answer would include a rant on why astral model is outdated, obsolete and useless both from scientific and occult points of view, and should be discarded as soon as possible .

A great example of this symbology, Mark Pritchard talks about this silver cord. The silver cord is a manifastation of the mind, a belief!

Many AP'ers won't see this silver cord, why? Because they have never heard about it! The silver cord has great metaphorical value! The link between the body and soul, if broken your body dies..

Well, my opinion is that there is no astral (as this thing is usually understood by AP'ers), thats why, but that's just me .

We have to experience it directly. One filter, our own is enough, too many and you can't see through all the dirt.

I am in clear advantage here, because I've WILDed several times - and, according to aforecited author, APed as well (because it is the same thing).

And yes, I read about LANGUAGE and so on, but that's not really this case. If one claims that WILD and AP is different things but fails to provide clear guidelines to distinguish one from another, it may mean one of the next things:

1) He does not really know, and just believes
2) He experienced either WILD or AP but just believes that another thing is another phenomenon but do not really knows how it is different, and maintain believers approach
3) And the least probable - he experienced both things, knows they are different but fails to describe a difference because his link between right and left hemisphere works badly - in this case one shold start making excercises to improve it .

I know my addition to the thread may not be as wholesome as some above, but I just read through this and feel I have to state a crucial point which I think some above are trying to explain, In simple terms.

Regardless of however many 'Facts' you read in books, its all from either personal experience or second hand. That Personal Experience, then transferred into book form, is always going to mean exactly what the author meant it to mean, to the author.

My point is you can't use Video Recorders from the real world to record your dreams (correct me if I'm wrong), so how can you ever directly explain to people what happened?

When you think of it this way, there's no point in bickering. We're all right in some form, but to one another, we can't state actual fact in terms of personal experience.

If you see the woman of your astral dreams stay the **** away from her, or she will suck your energy...atleast what i am always hearing. I have no idea what that would mean for when you are awake...i guess just always tired and worn out? don't attack anything because i hear things from AP come after you and attack you in AP and you will wake up? dreams it's ok to attack any, and everything.

I've only dreamed, never AP'd so i have no idea the difference, if there is one. I can't really give an answer.

From my limited experience, I would say that the dream world, and the astral are different levels of the same place.

Some dreams appear to be nothing more than scenery to keep your mind occupied while sleeping. If this does take place on the astral plane, it would be in one of the lower, more basic/instinctual levels.

I believe strongly that premonition type dreams take place in the astral plane, as I can feel the difference when I wake. I know whether a dream I had was a premonition dream or not the moment I wake up. It just feels so different to me than a normal dream, likely due to my being in a different place on the astral plane.

When traveling the AP, there are various 'levels' if you will. The lower levels being more instinctual, where beings of lower 'vibration levels' (spiritual awareness) reside. These beings are more like DC's, where there can be strong emotional responses, but they don't seem entirely real (cognitive). The higher levels of the astral plane have beings that are more aware of themselves, and respond less on a basic/instinctual level, and more on a learned/enlightened manner.

I have done both, and the best difference I can note is that in AP I'm awake. Once I was at my parents' house about 6hrs down the highway from where the guy I was dating at the time was living. I wanted to see him, so I tried to AP to him. After a few tries I found him at a friend's appartment. I tried to talk to him, but all I got in reply was this sense of fear. I went back to my body then went to bed because it was late.
I was living with said former boyfriend at the time, and when I went back after visiting my parents, he told me about being at his friend's appartment and how they kept thinking that they heard my voice and that he thought he caught a glimpse of me floating outside the window. Both guys were really freaked out by it and my then boyfriend who knew I was into meditation and stuff asked if I had tried to do anything that night. Then I told him about trying to astral project to say hi because I'd missed him. Terrified, he asked me never to do that to him again. I didn't.

I failed to read the last few posts, but this was really going no where.

When you talk about the difference between the two, you cant say that in one you leave your body and the other you are still in your head. Yes this is the case, but that doesnt explain or prove anything.

The real difference is what you are able to do. If you do a succesful AP you are then put into a certain plane of existance. In any of these planes of existance you can create objects and control things... to an extent. Once you create an object the object then starts to melt away and it looses its figure. The thing is, once you are in the AP your concious, which provides all of your thoughts, is projecting the thoughts into the plane. Which causes you to see them for a short period of time.

And of course if you did not already know, once you create something in an LD it can stay there for ever.

You guys are looking too hard into it. Those who can not and do not AP or OBE wont believe in it. There is nothing we can do to presuade anyone, and that is it.

If pigs really could fly, and only a certain few had seen them, then it would be the same case. Tell me pigs fly, and i will not believe it at all. Same concept.

Originally Posted by Conrahsarahteena

I have done both, and the best difference I can note is that in AP I'm awake. Once I was at my parents' house about 6hrs down the highway from where the guy I was dating at the time was living. I wanted to see him, so I tried to AP to him. After a few tries I found him at a friend's appartment. I tried to talk to him, but all I got in reply was this sense of fear. I went back to my body then went to bed because it was late.
I was living with said former boyfriend at the time, and when I went back after visiting my parents, he told me about being at his friend's appartment and how they kept thinking that they heard my voice and that he thought he caught a glimpse of me floating outside the window. Both guys were really freaked out by it and my then boyfriend who knew I was into meditation and stuff asked if I had tried to do anything that night. Then I told him about trying to astral project to say hi because I'd missed him. Terrified, he asked me never to do that to him again. I didn't.

Sounds made up.

Originally Posted by Conrahsarahteena

I have done both, and the best difference I can note is that in AP I'm awake.

Do you mean by an LD WILD or DILD?

I was living with said former boyfriend at the time, and when I went back after visiting my parents, he told me about being at his friend's appartment and how they kept thinking that they heard my voice and that he thought he caught a glimpse of me floating outside the window. Both guys were really freaked out by it and my then boyfriend who knew I was into meditation and stuff asked if I had tried to do anything that night. Then I told him about trying to astral project to say hi because I'd missed him. Terrified, he asked me never to do that to him again. I didn't.

Which method do you use for APing?

Originally Posted by C911

You guys are looking too hard into it. Those who can not and do not AP or OBE wont believe in it.

It is not quite right. A lot of people do not believe in LDs but still quite a few believed it possible. The question with OBEs and APs is if they are part of the same phenomenon as LD or not, personally that's what interests me. Consider, for example, Old Hag - in old times people thought that it was a real supernatural creature that visited them at night, now it have physiological interpretation. Whether first or second is right, it is still the same phenomenon.

Another one - ball lighting. One may think about it as will'o'wisp or UFO or vaporized silicon burning through oxidation but it is still one phenomenon. It would not be wise to think that one ball lightning is will'o'wisp and another which looks similar to previous is vaporized silicon burning through oxidation.

Originally Posted by Conrahsarahteena

I have done both, and the best difference I can note is that in AP I'm awake. Once I was at my parents' house about 6hrs down the highway from where the guy I was dating at the time was living. I wanted to see him, so I tried to AP to him. After a few tries I found him at a friend's appartment. I tried to talk to him, but all I got in reply was this sense of fear. I went back to my body then went to bed because it was late.
I was living with said former boyfriend at the time, and when I went back after visiting my parents, he told me about being at his friend's appartment and how they kept thinking that they heard my voice and that he thought he caught a glimpse of me floating outside the window. Both guys were really freaked out by it and my then boyfriend who knew I was into meditation and stuff asked if I had tried to do anything that night. Then I told him about trying to astral project to say hi because I'd missed him. Terrified, he asked me never to do that to him again. I didn't.

If this is indeed true, it's quite amazing. I've always wondered if it's possible to project near the physical plane to see someone on the other side of the world

You may find a lot of your answers here: this is the most informative book on AP I've ever read (Multidimensional Man - Jurgen Ziewe). He goes into incredible detail based on a lifetime of APs. He spent hours at a time there during meditation and describes some really wild encounters, past lives, interviews with dead people, you name it, as well as how it all hangs together.
Try this link:
http://www.amazon.com/Multidimension...3063632&sr=8-3

Originally Posted by solo58

He goes into incredible detail based on a lifetime of APs. He spent hours at a time there during meditation and describes some really wild encounters, past lives, interviews with dead people, you name it, as well as how it all hangs together.

Right, and none of that stuff could happen in a dream of course...

True, anything can happen in a dream. It's more a matter of states of consciousness. Being lucid in a dream is different from being fully conscious and wide awake on another dimension of reality as on the astral plane. The most distinguishing feature between lucid dreaming and astral projection seems to be that the power of creation in an out-of-body state depends on the level of consciousness one is in. Creativity and the power of flying being more difficult on the lower astral levels or dimensions, whereas in a lucid dream, anything is possible as we are only dealing with thoughts. Of course the difference can only become clear when experiencing both, though none of this can be proven and the argument cannot be settled theoretically.

Sorry, but that to me that just sounds like an excuse to explain away a lack of control. Most people just luck out sometimes in controlling their dreams and don't necessarily understand how they did it.

I defy any astral projector to try the techniques in my nature of dream control thread and tell me they don't work in the astral realm.

I've felt myself leaving my body plenty of times, and I think they're the same thing.

Hm, this is really a good point and a very interesting one too. How does one distinguish between what is "real" consensus reality on a different dimension, somewhat akin to earth, except on a higher dimension or whether it is simply a projection of the mind, a dream or a hallucination, which the brain interprets as real simply because it applies waking awareness processes to it?

The problem is lucid dreamers are enjoying the company of respected scientists such as Ceila Green, LaBerge and others who boil everything down to brain functions, whereas most Astral Travelers I've come across or read about insist that they are in a parallel universe altogether, where a different set of laws apply. To make matters more complicated, AT-ers still appear to be able to have lucid dreams while AT-ing.

It looks as if Astral Travelers will have to focus their attention on quantum physics for support rather than neurological experts to find an explanation for the worlds they find themselves in, but I doubt they will get a lot of understanding from respected scientists, simply because nothing can as yet be proven.

Going back to your initial point, in my experience changing things in the Astral environment via thought power doesn't have a lasting effect and even flying can be a struggle if you are in lower energy dimension. On a higher dimension things are a lot easier and more enjoyable at that as the consciousness seems to expand and in the process you become more in charge of things but not as almighty as in a lucid dream..

I quite like to hear what other astral travelers experiences are.