Experiments with a strobe light [Archive] - Dreamviews lucid dreaming forums

Pandragon

03-23-2005, 10:09 PM

Hey All,

Seeing as I don't have the cash for a Nova Dreamer, and don't quite trust the REM Dreamer yet,
I decided to rig up the next best thing:

A strobe light and a digital outlet timer. I'm using:

1. "Strobe Light" by Room Moodz, available at Toys R Us and amazon.com for $19.95. (comes with 3 colored filters)

2. "Intermatic 500 Watt 120 Volt AC Heavy-Duty PadDigital Timer" available at www.homedepot.com for $19.95.

Total Cost: $40.

Since I tend to sleep on my side and I'm a turner, I decided to hang the Strobe on the wall over my head.
This way it works no matter which way I'm facing. I set the timer for about 10 on/off power switches lasting
1 minute each, starting from about 2 hours after I fall asleep.

I tried it for the first time last night and until then I've only had 1 LD in the past 7 months.
This morning I had a false awakening, directly caused by the strobe.
So I'm highly optomistic that this is going to greatly increase my LD frequency!

I'm currently making some adjustments. The strobe light was too bright and woke me up several times,
even using the red color filter that comes with it.
So I've added a sheer silk cloth to reduce the brightness by another 50% or so.

Also, 6 hours into the timer schedule, the strobe began flashing at random intervals on and off
every couple minutes for about 45 minutes straight, which unfortunately woke me up. I'm not sure
why this happened. It's possible I messed up programming one of the scheduled power switches.
So I've reprogrammed the timer for tonight and hopefully there won't be a repeat performance.

Well, that's all I have to report for now. I'll post anything interesting tomorrow. In the meantime,
if anyone else who's using this set up would like to add comments or advice, please do! And of course,
thanks to everyone who has mentioned this method in the forum, I wish I had names, but you know who
you are.

:goodjob2:

Yume

03-23-2005, 10:16 PM

I hope this turns out well. That will be nice if we can have an inexpensive way to do this. I will like to see the results. Also did you have to strech the page?

Pandragon

03-23-2005, 10:29 PM

Sorry, I didn't realize it was gonna stretch until I posted it.

:P

I assume it's cuz of the links? Is there any way I can fix it?

Yume

03-23-2005, 11:28 PM

This is the same code, but shorter. (http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0331704554.1111642255@ @@@&BV_EngineID=cccgaddeeikdihicgelceffdfgidgll.0&CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc/searchResults.jsp&MID=9876&N=2984+3004&pos=n04)

Use [ url=CODE ]Whatever you want to say[ /URL ] instead of [ URL ]Code [ /URL ]

Pandragon

03-23-2005, 11:57 PM

Well, it's fixed. Should be easier to read now.

:oops:

Pandragon

03-24-2005, 03:27 PM

Day 2 Report:

No LD's. :?

Tried setting Strobe Light to fastest flash rate, but it made a rapid clicking noise that woke me up every time it turned on. The light still seems a bit too bright to sleep through as well.

For tonight, I'm returning the Strobe's flash rate to it's slowest setting, and programming it to activate only once per hour starting from 3 hours after I usually fall asleep.

Lucky27

03-26-2005, 10:18 AM

You might want to try putting one of the colored shields in front of the light. It reduces the brightness significantly.

(I just had to get the materials and try it too :-P )

Pandragon

03-26-2005, 04:56 PM

Hey Lucky,

I'm glad someone decided to join in on the experiment. The more, the merrier!

As for the brightness, I actually have been using the red color filter and even a sheer silk cloth over that, my wife and I still find it a little too bright. So, I'm thinking of buying some red tissue paper and layering it over the light to get the right level of brightness.

In the meantime, can you share with us how many times a night is your Strobe programmed to flash? Any "luck" so far? does it wake you up or do you notice it in your dreams, etc?

Thanks.

:)

Lucky27

03-27-2005, 03:08 PM

On weekends, which is all i've tried so far, I set it starting at 3am and going off every hour until 9am (flashing for 5 mins each time.)
For weekdays, I think i'm going to go from 1am to 5am; 1 hour apart and flashing for 5 mins each time.

The first night (firday/saturday), I tried it without the shield, and it woke me up about every time it went off.

The second night (saturday/sunday), I put the red shield in, and it only woke me up once, I didn't notice the light in any dreams. Come to think of it... I don't even remember any of my dreams from last night. I'm still going to stick with the red shield though, and see if I have better luck tonight.

Seeker

03-28-2005, 06:02 AM

Strobe light! Never thought of that. I'm very interested in seeing how this works. Maybe if you put it in a box or something? Pointed at the ceiling so that you get indirect light? This should also dampen the sound a bit.

Pandragon

03-28-2005, 03:07 PM

Yeah, I've been thinking about moving the strobe to an indirect flashing position. The thing is, my wife isn't interested in having LD's (or having lights flash in her eyes while she's sleeping. LOL) so having it directly over my head facing down seems to be the least intrusive for her.

Funny thing is, she went lucid twice this week from the strobe and she's doesn't even want to have LD's! Go figure.

:roll:

The sound issue is a little trickier. I'm gonna give some thought to your box suggestion. Maybe if I line it with material or something...?

Anyway, I have some success to report: :breakitdown:

This morning I had an LD (not related to the strobe), about 60-75 minutes after I fell asleep. It wasn't very vivid. I had virtually no control and the environment was so chaotic that it was difficult to stay lucid. But who cares? It was an LD!

Then about 5-10 minutes after I lost lucidity, the Strobe flashed for it's first programmed time and I went lucid again! It was interesting how it was incorporated into my dream:

I was suddenly floating over a sunny suburban street, about tree-top height and looking down on a parked car. The sun was reflecting off it's windshield and getting in my eyes. I knew it was the strobe, but the flashing was so strong that before I could do anything, it wiped out my field of vision and woke me up. I'm convinced it would have worked perfectly if the light had been a little dimmer...

So, only one week after starting Project Strobe Light, I had 2 LD's in the same night, one from the strobe, and one natural. But compare that to the 3 months of trying it took for me to get my last LD!

I'm expecting better lucids and more of them once I get the brightness issue resolved. But even today's mini-strobe-induced-lucid tells me this method is definitely worth trying, especially for newbies like me.

:D

Lucky27

03-28-2005, 04:32 PM

Day 3 results: It woke me up EVERY time it went off (with the red shield...,) even a few mins ago from my nap. :mad:

Originally posted by Seeker+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Seeker)</div> Maybe if you put it in a box or something? Pointed at the ceiling so that you get indirect light? This should also dampen the sound a bit. [/b]

I may have to do something like this, or cover it with something, like Pandragon suggested.

<!--QuoteBegin-Pandragon
Funny thing is, she went lucid twice this week from the strobe and she's doesn't even want to have LD's! Go figure.

lol, and she still isn't interested in LDing?

Congrats on your LDs though. Once you get all this figured out, you'll be glad you took the time to get it working. I know I will.

dragonoverlord

03-29-2005, 01:59 PM

the strobe light seems to work okay keep on trying.

Pandragon

03-29-2005, 03:10 PM

More Fine Tuning:

To correct the brightness problem, I removed the color filter and silk sheet I was using and replaced it with 5 sheets of red colored, Hallmark tissue paper ($2 at Long's drug store, in the gift wrapping supplies section). It softened the brightness considerably and actually produces a much nicer red glow than the color filter that comes with the strobe.

This morning, once again, I went lucid in my dream from the strobe, but once again I was pulled into waking consciousness within 3 seconds of the flashing because it was too bright. Hopefully, all I have to do is cut more sheets of tissue paper and keep layering till I find the right level of brightness.

But the repeated experience of being triggered into lucidity, and then immediately pulled kicking and screaming out of my dream has lead me to realize a possible problem with this set up:

As far as I know, commercial outlet timers can be set for a minimum of 1 minute on/off cycles, and no less (if anyone knows of a timer than can be set for less than one 1 minute, please tell me).

So far, every time I've been awakened in a dream by the strobe, I've thought to myself that even though it was too bright, if it would only flash for a couple seconds and then stop, I could stay lucid and continue dreaming.

The problem isn't so much the fact that it's so bright, it's that the light keeps flashing for a full minute and I can't maintain my dreamscape more than a couple seconds with such a bright flash wiping out my field of vision.

So now I'm wondering how dim does the light have to be for me to go lucid, but still remain asleep and dreaming? To maintain my dreamscape for a full minute while I wait for the flashing to stop, I think it will have to be pretty soft light. But if it's too soft, it may not catch my attention at all while I'm dreaming.

:doh:

Oh well, I guess I'll just keep layering on the tissue paper until the strobe doesn't wake me up and go from there...

Pandragon

03-30-2005, 05:31 PM

Even More Fine Tuning, More Success, The Experiment Hits a Wall:

More Fine Tuning -

Last night I added another 5 sheets of colored tissue paper for a total of 10 sheets. The light is now a lovely, soft red glow. Not harsh at all.

:goodjob2:

Also, today I hung a fleece sweater over the back of the strobe and tested it. The clicking sound is muted by about 50%. Should be much more tolerable now, I'll find out tonight...

More Success - :goodjob:

This morning I had another LD! That's 2 in 2 days, a new record for me. This one was more lucid and longer lasting, loads of fun! However, it happened between strobe flashes, I simply recognized I was dreaming from some funny cues (everything I read around me had "LD" or "L/D" on it and I finally got the message).

So this is twice in 2 days I went lucid but not from the strobe. My guess is, either my other efforts are paying off (dream journal, affirmations, MILD, etc), or somehow the Strobe is training me to be more aware in my dreams because it's been waking me up briefly a few times every night and reminding me I'm trying to go lucid. Maybe it's both, but I feel pretty sure the strobe is helping somehow, even if it's not the way it's supposed to.

The Experiment Hits a Wall -

Ok after 10 days, I have some preliminary observations, both good and bad:

The Good - It's been well worth the $42 in expenses, I've had 2 lucids in less than 2 weeks and I seem to be increasing my LD frequency dramatically.

The Bad - After 10 days, I haven't had one lucid dream initiated by the strobe light. Almost every night, at least once I recognize the flashing in my dreams and become lucid, but after a few seconds it wakes me up. I can't seem to stay asleep and dreaming long enough for the flashing to stop (1 minute).

The Wall - I'm convinced the strobe light could help me go lucid almost every night, maybe more than once, if only I could program it to turn on and off within about 3 seconds (long enough to go lucid, but brief enough to stay alseep and keep dreaming). The problem is, I have no idea how to (cheaply) program the strobe light for 3 second intervals, several times a night. Every commercial outlet timer I've seen has a 1 minute minimum interval setting, and I'm technically inept.

Summary: This experiment was intended to determine whether I could recognize an external light source while I'm dreaming and use it to trigger lucidity in my dreams. In that regard, it's a total success, works about 90% of the time. Sadly, I just don't know how to stay in the dream while the flashing goes on for a full minute.

:morecrying:

At least it seems to be helping me become lucid naturally in between scheduled flashes, so it's still a big help overall.

I think there's a slim chance that I can keep reducing the brightness with more sheets of colored paper until it's just bright enough to make me lucid, but soft enough not to wake me up or wipe out my dreamscape. This may mean I'll notice it less often, but it might help me go straight into an LD once in awhile...

Well, that's all for now, except of course, if anyone reading this knows (or knows someone who knows) how I can cheaply program the Strobe Light for 3 second intervals, without needing a degree in electronics, please, please, please post it here.

:help:

I would be forever grateful... :bowdown:

LucidApple

03-30-2005, 06:44 PM

I tested a strobe in 1995 at night for lds and dreams experimenting and had high hopes but never was a succes!
combined it with certain set times (using a timer) etc..but nope..no succes!
Tried only red(filter) and white light (no filter)
Freq from 15 to 0.75 hz. so all diff settings!

Sound tests with spoken lines (tape) did work how ever!

But congrats, because it shows your creativity! ;)

Lucidapple

Pandragon

03-30-2005, 07:34 PM

Hi lucid,

Did the strobe not work because you didn't see the light in your dreams? Or because it was too bright...?

I also have an audio CD with spoken cues that is programmed to play in the morning. But it has yet to make me lucid. I'm planning to record a new one as soon as I can afford a copy of Goldwave (my trial version expired recently).

What spoken lines did you record on your audio tape? How far apart are they? Every 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 20...?

Lucky27

03-30-2005, 08:28 PM

I think this should work...

Get a new timer, and plug it into the old one, (you might have to use a short extension cord, because the wall might be in the way.) Set the clock on the new timer to 57 seconds earlier than the timer that you already have. Make the times on the new timer the exact same of the times on the 'old timer.' The new timer will go off 57 seconds earlier, but since the timer that is plugged into the wall (the 'old timer') hasn't gone off yet, the strobe light wont go on. The when the 'old timer' goes off there will be three seconds left on the 'new timer' (the one that the strobe light is plugged into.) And the light should only flash for three seconds.

It's kind of hard for me to explain, but you should be able to figure it out.
I've also noticed that when the timer goes off/turns on, it takes a few seconds for the strobe light to actually flash. So, you might have to do a bit of trial and error to get it exact.
I also don't know if you want to go out and spend another $20 on a new timer (you might be able to get a cheaper one though, mine was $13 at Lowes.)

By the way... nice job on the LDs, I haven't have any yet with the strobe light.

Pandragon

03-30-2005, 08:45 PM

DUDE YOU ROCK!!!

:bravo:

That's a brilliant idea! I don't know if it will work or even be safe from a fire hazard perspective, but it's cheaper than anything I've come up with by FAR. I'm definitely gonna try it.

The best I came up with so far was to buy one of these:

http://www.greenair.com/cyclestat.htm

The Cyclestat II can be set for 5 second intervals, but your idea is about $80 cheaper after shipping and handling.

:mrgreen:

Thanks Lucky, you just made my day.

:bowdown:

And as for your LD's, are you seeing the light in your dreams at all? Are you using any other LD methods like Dream Journaling, MILD, etc?

Lucky27

03-30-2005, 09:04 PM

I've seen the light while I was dreaming once, but I woke up within a few seconds. I also have a weird problem with waking up 1-2 mins before the timer is supposed to go off, I guess it's my internal clock being a bitch.
I don't keep a dream journal, mainly because i'm too lazy, But I do try the WILD and MILD sometimes (usually on weekends,) but to no avail.

I set my timer to flash for 5 mins, in hopes that i'll I definitely see it, and if it does wake me up, maybe I can fall asleep while it's still flashing and see it when I enter back into dreamstate. But, i'm starting to think maybe this isn't such a good idea. Mostly because it hasn't worked yet. But I might just have to get used to the light flashing, and I might not wake up everytime it goes off.

Pandragon

03-30-2005, 09:26 PM

Interesting, I see the light and hear the "clicks" almost every time that it turns on, but it always wakes me up after a few seconds. Probably cuz I'm a light sleeper anyway.

I gotta say, I resisted using a Dream Journal for 6 months. I was determined to get LD's without one, but had no luck for 3 months straight. In the end I finally started using one, and within a couple weeks I had an LD. Believe me, I understand not wanting to do it. I think it depends on how bad you want LD's, whether it's worth doing, but I really think keeping the Journal increases your chances on a daily basis.
It might even help you become more aware while you dream and maybe be able to spot the light easier. Just a thought.

By the way, just out of curiosity, have you ever plugged one outlet timer into another? I think it definitely sounds good in theory, and I'm probably going to try it tomorrow. I'd just like some reassurance that I'm not gonna fry something...

:?

P.S. After I posted this, I thought of an alternative to the Strobe Light that might be helpful for you. I've been playing with the idea of plugging a hand-held massage vibrator into the outlet and resting it inside the fitted sheet, somewhere around my mattress, maybe on the side or near my head. I figure that way the vibrations will be softened by the mattress, but might still be enough to trigger lucidity. This could be a great way to trigger lucidity without the clicking noise or the annoying lights. In EWLD, LaBerge mentioned using vibration in his laboratory experiments before he designed the DreamLight mask, and said it was an effective method.

I have a cheap therapeutic massager, that has 3 settings so I can test this theory out some time. But from what I've seen, some of those suped-up Hitachi Massagers have all kinds of crazy settings like "pulse" and "oscillate," etc. They're kinda pricey, may be perfect for finding just the right vibration to trigger lucidity.

Anyway, it's just an idea, but I thought I'd pass it along. Hope it helps.

Meanwhile, your dual-timer idea has inspired me to stay with the Strobe Light awhile longer. So depending on my level of success in the next few days, it may be awhile before I test any new ideas.

:dreaming:

Elephantman

03-31-2005, 01:21 AM

got to agree the strobe thing sounds like a great idea, and it seems to work too :)

Just a couple of points:
The waking up from storbe light - Maybe this could be a control issue as much as a light level issue? Reduce the light level too much and you may not notice it when you need to.
But practice some good control techniques for when you see the strobe and you may find you can make it work :)

When I saw this a couple of weeks back it got me thinking and I think I may have another set up that may work.
I will try getting a cheap small analog clock and wrap the minute hand in tin foil, then place two wire contacts on the face. When the minute hand sweeps round every hour it will complete the circut and run a flashing LED. The pulse rate will be fixed at around 2-1.5Hz, fairly slow I know but I gues I'll see what happens.
May use more than one but overbrightness seems to be the main comcern so one may do.
Porb use a 9V battery for power but a small 12v outlet transformer would also be quite easy.
A little experimentation with foil and wire contacts should give acceptable results repeated everty hour :)
It may be a while before I get around to putting this together but will post up if anyone is intrested.
Just don't leave one of these sitting on a bench at the bus station, could very easily be mistaken for something a little more unhealthy ;)

For ppl in NZ or Auzzie needing parts -
$2shop clock and either one or more of these:

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/
Search for part numbers
ZD1785
And probably same thing with bezzel and wires attached
LA5082

Sorry - Fixed... I think? Maybe I can join a bunch of wires and LEDs to a cheap clock but I don't do
HTML'n'interweb'n'posting'n'stretching too well :oops:

Pandragon

03-31-2005, 02:00 AM

Hey Elephantman,

Thanks for posting the home-made version! You technically skilled chaps never cease to impress me. I on the other hand, can barely work a hammer, much less electrical hardware.

:P

As for the light itself, my experience has been that a slow flashing rate is actually preferable. A casual rate of once per .50 or .75 seconds seems to be more noticable in my dreamscape, creating large sweeping changes in the environment, as opposed to the blurry, confusing effect I get from a rapid flash rate.

I hope you'll come back with a report soon. But in the meantime, would you mind editing your post to remove the long website links and instead just direct folks to the websites and mention what products to search for? That way it will unstretch this page and make it easier for folks to read.

:?

BTW, I made the same mistake when I first posted this topic. :wink:

LucidApple

03-31-2005, 05:01 PM

Pandragon i just didnt notice the strobe in my dreams!
sometimes it just woke me up and that was it!
I used spoken recorded tapes with a timer. that worked quite well.
you could also combine sound and light together that would be neat!
my ultimate dream was always a timer that at a certain time activates..sound, light as well as smell!
All three combined at the same time!
Better even a sort of nova dreamer that comines sound, light and smell!
I also experimented a lot with smells for dreaming, thats why!

I like elephantmans idea!
A sort of mask with leds...maybe connected to a timer.
But of course it must be able to have more freq settings then it has now.

Pandragon

03-31-2005, 05:25 PM

I think you have a good point there Lucidapple. The more senses you stimulate, the better chance one of them will reach your awareness in a dream.

What smells have you experimented with and how did you do it?

Lucky27

03-31-2005, 08:02 PM

Instead of hanging the strobe light from the ceiling, where the light shines directly in my face. I'm going to put it on the floor, about two feet away from the foot of my bed and aim it at the ceiling. I figure the light will not be as bright, but I should still be able to see it well enough for it to be incorporated into my dreams.

I'll try it for a few days and see how it works.

Pandragon

03-31-2005, 08:57 PM

Sounds worth trying. I also highly recommend the layering tissue paper over the light. It worked perfectly for me.

BTW, I bought a second timer (the same one) tonight to try your idea. I'll report back tomorrow with the results.

Elephantman

03-31-2005, 11:17 PM

I think the Japanese have recently released a multi sense 'dream machine' that uses smell along with other ques.
I have only used smell sense a little.
Sometimes lavender oil for when I sleep, and I used it a bit last night durind a MILD prep/meditation/mantra session
I have always found it helps give me the odd vivid and emotional dream. Thats before I ever knew anythig about it's properties acording to aromatherapy, so I gues there has to be something in it that works.

I never actually thought of using a mask for the LEDs. I think I'd probably find it hard to sleep in but I may give it a try.
My bigest concern is the ticking of the clock :eek:
I am used to sleeping in a dead quiet room.

Lucky27

04-24-2005, 02:58 PM

Pandragon,

I was wondering how often you have lucid dreams with the strobe light, or if you are even still using it. I was not having much luck at all. I finally had to unplug the damn timer because the strobelight kept waking me up in the middle of the night / morning.

Pandragon

04-24-2005, 10:52 PM

Well, at this point, the experiment is at another stand still.

The strobe works perfectly for giving me a signal in my dreams. I see the light in my dreams every time it comes on. And your suggestion to use 2 timers to adjust the time cycles worked great as well. I can adjust the cycles down to 1 second intervals if I want to.

My problem is the clicking sound the strobe light makes each time the light flickers on and off. I just can't seem to sleep through that noise and neither can my wife.

Recently I bought a small $15 lamp with a 7.5 Watt bulb to use in place of the strobe. The advantage is that it's completely silent, but for some reason (probably because it doesn't flicker on and off) I have yet to notice the light in my dreams. It either wakes me up or I sleep right through it.

Also, it's important to note that due to an old back injury acting up, I haven't been sleeping well for the past few weeks. So it's hard to say how well it works unless I'm getting a good 8 hours sleep.

I've actually been planning on going back to the strobe light, since it was much more effective. But I'm stuck on finding the best way to insulate it so that it doesn't produce any noise.

Any suggestions? :?: :?: :?:

P.S. How is the strobe light waking you? By light or sound?

If it's a matter of the light being too bright, my solution was to buy a package of red tissue paper (used for wrapping gifts) at the local drug store for $2.

All you have to do is layer it in sheets until you find the level of brightness that is comfortable enough to sleep through, but still noticeable in your dreams. For me, it was 20 sheets. It makes a lovely, soft red glow, not harsh at all on the eyes.

Hope that helps and please let me know if you have any suggestions.

Lucky27

04-25-2005, 05:46 AM

At first, it was the light that was waking me up, because I didn't have it covered. After I covered the light, I don't think it was bright enough to wake me up. But I was still waking up, so the sound is a major factor.

Pandragon

04-25-2005, 01:18 PM

Hmm. So I'm not alone with the sound issue!

Well, personally I'm convinced the strobe could help me go lucid several times a week if I can just get rid of that clicking noise. Hopefully one of us will come up with something soon...

In the meantime, how are you covering the light? Are you able to adjust it? The reason I mention the tissue paper is because that way, you can adjust the brightness very gradually by adding or removing just one sheet of paper at a time. If you play around and keep track of how many sheets you use each time you go to sleep, it should be easy to find the perfect level after a few days.

I've found that it works better to have it fairly bright, but with a short time cycle like 3-5 seconds. That way, it's strong enough to get your attention, but not long enough to wipe out your dreamscape. At least, that's my experience. Once I got the light at a good level of brightness, it's always been the sound that actually wakes me up.

Amethyst Star

04-25-2005, 02:11 PM

Have you tried putting the strobe light at a distance? If you find that it's not bright enough, you could always remove a layer or two of the tissue paper. Maybe putting it in the hallway outside of your room and leaving the door open or something? I'm not very good when it comes to modifying electronics, but I'm just curious.

Pandragon

04-25-2005, 04:53 PM

That's a good idea, maybe it will work for Lucky.

But since my wife sleeps in the same bed with me, and she doesn't want to have lucid dreams (I know, it's hard to believe why anyone wouldn't want to), the best place for the strobe is mounted on the wall over my head, facing down. That way, the flash is mostly focused on me. It also makes it effective regardless of what side I'm sleeping on, since I tend to change positions a lot.

I thnk my only option is some form of insulation to muffle the noise...

Lucky27

04-25-2005, 09:28 PM

I think i'll try it one more time, changed a few things... and I honestly doubt it is going to work. But since I am extremely bored and have nothing else to do; I figure what the hell.

So, i'll set my alarm to wake me up at 4:30. When it wakes me up, I'll play a CD that I made, (it starts off with Track1 -- 12 minutes of "Ocean waves" (Just some noise until I fall asleep.) Then Track2 -- has a recording of me telling myself that i'm dreaming for about a minute. (In hopes that i'll hear it in a dream.) Then Track3 -- goes back to the "Ocean waves")

So, I set the strobe light timer to go off at 4:40, just as the first track is ending, so i'll already have background noise, and maybe the click-click-click-click-click won't seem as loud.

I'll try it for a few of nights and see how it works, making neccesary asjustments as needed.

Pandragon

04-25-2005, 11:33 PM

Sounds like a good idea. Unfortunately it's not an option for me. But I hope it works.

Pandragon

04-26-2005, 01:15 PM

I decided to go ahead and switch back to the strobe light last night. However, I've been sleeping like crap lately (average 4-5 hours) and I took valerian before bed, so I only noticed the flash once. I saw it in my dreams, but the light was too strong and woke me up. I'll reduce the brightness tonight.

Funny thing, this time the sound wasn't a problem. Might be because I was more thorough about wrapping it this time or that I'm just sleeping heavier these days.

Anyway, I had an idea for reducing the noise - athletic bandages. It might help to wrap the 4 sides in joint support bandages or a similiar cloth in long strips and then cover the whole thing in a thick cloth, like fleece. I'm not sure how much it would cost to wrap it sufficiently, but I think it could help to have a tight cover around the sides...

Lucky27

04-27-2005, 05:48 AM

That is a good Idea, my strobelight has little slits on the top and bottom. That is what is letting out about 75% of the noise.

For the past couple of nights since i've used the light and the CD, I haven't been woken up by the strobelight (light or sound.) It's the CD that keeps waking me up, as soon as my voice comes on and says "This is a dream ... You are dreaming" it wakes me up. I think I might just use a song that I rarely ever listen to, instead of my own voice though.

Anyways, I was trying to think of way to cover those little slits, and your idea is better than anything I could come up with.

Pandragon

04-27-2005, 10:22 PM

Glad the light isn't a problem anymore. I had the same issue with an LD Affirmation CD I made. My own voice would wake me up every time. But then my CD alarm clock is getting old and it's hard to control the volume these days. I'm shopping for a new one that can play CD-R's and CD-RW's...

I checked out the price on joint support bandages. It doesn't appear economically feasible. Instead I'm going to take an old wall hanging made of thin cotton material and start cutting it into strips.

The things I'll do for an LD...

:roll:

tommygun

04-28-2005, 03:19 AM

in regards to keeping your focus while the strobe is flashing, try dream spinning immediatly after ur lucidity is triggered until u feel its safe . I can imagine this might take some pratice but it may yield great rewards. 8)

Pandragon

04-28-2005, 02:34 PM

For me, the problem is that when the light is too bright, or the sound too loud, I instantly lose my dream body, and feel my real one. I become awake again in less than a second, so there's really no way to maintain my dreamscape once I've lost contact with my dream body.

The thing is, I'm recovering from an old back injury, so I'm often sore when I fall asleep. When I feel my real body again even for a second, I become aware of the soreness and it tends to make it difficult to just slip back into my dreams...

Bricnic

04-30-2005, 12:33 AM

Pandragon have you considered wearing ear-muffs? I know they might be uncomfortable, and it might take you longer to get to sleep, but it should reduce the noise cosiderably. Or you could even try cotton balls or ear plugs- whatever is least intrusive. I would recommend falling asleep to some background noise, as this will make the clicking sound less contrasting to the ambient noise already present, but as your wife also has to be taken into consideration perhaps this isn't really possible, even with headphones.

If all else fails, try having three separate non-strobe lights connected, that turn on/off one after the other. This would obviously increase the cost involved by quite a bit, but I guess the clicking noise would be eliminated :P

Leo Volont

04-30-2005, 01:45 AM

Dear Pandragon,

maybe you are too functionally set upon using that annoying strobe light which you should save for drug parties or Seventies Retro Parties or whatever. Maybe you should hook your really neat Timer Device into the power feed of some speakers set to play a gentle low volume audio suggestion to have a lucid dream. Just think about it -- you are in a dream and see some annoying flashing lights, which your Dream might incorporate into a dream ambulance going by... or you are in a dream, and a Voice begins telling you that "You are Dreaming, You are Dreaming, You are Dreaming"... now, which set of inputs is more likely to suggest to you that you are dreaming?

Pandragon

04-30-2005, 02:57 AM

Bricnic -

Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately, I'm one of those chaps who doesn't fall asleep easily using googles or headphones. The strobe light makes the click at each on/off flash cycle, so whether it's 1 strobe light or 3 of them, it's the same noise. Actually, I'm on the verge of completely solving the noise issue, so it's no longer a factor. But thanks anyway for the input.

:)

Dear Leo Volont -

As I've said many times throughout the thread, the light is by far the most effective dream sign I've found yet. I never confuse it for anything but what it is. That's why I find this experiment to be a worthy pursuit. If it was annoying, I wouldn't bother now would I? As I've also said many times in this thread, I'm convinced it will work for me, it's just a matter of adjusting the stimulus (and getting some decent sleep which is really more the current issue).

As for audio suggestion, I've tried that in the past and it hasn't worked thus far. In fact, didn't I just say that like 4 posts ago??? Did you read EWLD? My experience matches the same reasons that LeBarge concluded light stimulus is the most effective way to externally induce a dream sign.

But not to worry, I plan to record a new audio CD for my CD alarm clock and can use it with the strobe light! So I don't have to choose between them. Now isn't THAT convenient?

:P

Leo Volont

04-30-2005, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by Pandragon

Dear Leo Volont -

As I've said many times throughout the thread, the light is by far the most effective dream sign I've found yet. I never confuse it for anything but what it is. That's why I find this experiment to be a worthy pursuit. If it was annoying, I wouldn't bother now would I? As I've also said many times in this thread, I'm convinced it will work for me, it's just a matter of adjusting the stimulus (and getting some decent sleep which is really more the current issue).

As for audio suggestion, I've tried that in the past and it hasn't worked thus far. In fact, didn't I just say that like 4 posts ago??? Did you read EWLD? My experience matches the same reasons that LeBarge concluded light stimulus is the most effective way to externally induce a dream sign.

But not to worry, I plan to record a new audio CD for my CD alarm clock and can use it with the strobe light! So I don't have to choose between them. Now isn't THAT convenient?

:P

I'm sorry, but I guess I just read the five or six posts in which you endlessly complained that the lights were waking you up at the wrong time and making your wife contemplate divorce.... but if it is working so well, after all, I guess it was my mistake to suppose you were stubbornly pursuing a dead end simply because you did not want to admit that you had wasted money on what will eventually end up being a dust collector or a garage sale bargain.

Oh, and if a blinding light flashing in the middle of the night is so helpful for your dreams, maybe you should think how much better it would be if you could arrange to have a sledge hammer slam you on your skull periodically... wouldn't that work even better?

Leo Volont

04-30-2005, 07:29 AM

I suppose that if a person drills hard enough and long enough with anything as a reminder to Lucid Dream, then eventually anything will eventually have some results. But I think that Stephen Labarge chose to have LED Lights put into his NOVA Dreamer contraption because they were the cheapest possible electronic component he could put into a device he could charge over a hundred dollars for. Hmmmm. 2 thirtyfive cent LED's for a hundred dollars... sounds better than working for a living, huh?

so what do I think of an fifty dollar strobe light that does the same thing as a thirtyfive cent LED, but needs to be filtered down because it is too bright. First, its like using an elephant gun to shoot a squirrel. Why not use a 5 Watt night light if you absolutely have to use light. But remember that Labarge chose light only because light was the cheapest way to go. Little speakers and oscillators cost a few bucks and would have cut down on his profit margin. so what is the use of being Derivative -- stealing an idea -- from somebody when the idea was not very utilitarian in the first place.

In the end, everyone, including yourself, as you admit, goes to audio.

Pandragon

04-30-2005, 01:33 PM

Leo,

you're clearly not interested in having a discussion here and your comments are neither helpful or appreciated. It's obvious your only intention here is to vent frustrations at fellow board members, so please do it somewhere else.

Bricnic

05-01-2005, 05:20 AM

Pandragon,

Although I did actually say "try having three separate non-strobe lights connected" I can understand where you're coming from. In fact I've come up with a different idea- does the timer make a clicking noise when it activates/deactivates? Because if it doesn't, you could theoretically have like 6 or so timers all set up at 1 second apart from each other, giving a "on..off...on...off...on...off" effect (attach this rig to a NON strobe light, the timers will create the strobe effect by themselves). Not sure whether this will overload the circuit or indeed be very good for the bulb :wink: but merely a suggestion.

dreamtamer007

05-01-2005, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by Pandragon
Even More Fine Tuning, More Success, The Experiment Hits a Wall:

*More Fine Tuning -

*Last night I added another 5 sheets of colored tissue paper for a total of 10 sheets. The light is now a lovely, soft red glow. Not harsh at all.

* :goodjob2: *

*Also, today I hung a fleece sweater over the back of the strobe and tested it. The clicking sound is muted by about 50%. Should be much more tolerable now, I'll find out tonight...
*

*More Success - * :goodjob: *

*This morning I had another LD! That's 2 in 2 days, a new record for me. This one was more lucid and longer lasting, loads of fun! However, it happened between strobe flashes, I simply recognized I was dreaming from some funny cues (everything I read around me had \"LD\" or \"L/D\" on it and I finally got the message).

*So this is twice in 2 days I went lucid but not from the strobe. My guess is, either my other efforts are paying off (dream journal, affirmations, MILD, etc), or somehow the Strobe is training me to be more aware in my dreams because it's been waking me up briefly a few times every night and reminding me I'm trying to go lucid. Maybe it's both, but I feel pretty sure the strobe is helping somehow, even if it's not the way it's supposed to.

*The Experiment Hits a Wall -

*Ok after 10 days, I have some preliminary observations, both good and bad:

*The Good - It's been well worth the $42 in expenses, I've had 2 lucids in less than 2 weeks and I seem to be increasing my LD frequency dramatically.

*The Bad * - After 10 days, I haven't had one lucid dream initiated by the strobe light. Almost every night, at least once I recognize the flashing in my dreams and become lucid, but after a few seconds it wakes me up. I can't seem to stay asleep and dreaming long enough for the flashing to stop (1 minute). *

*The Wall - I'm convinced the strobe light could help me go lucid almost every night, maybe more than once, if only I could program it to turn on and off within about 3 seconds (long enough to go lucid, but brief enough to stay alseep and keep dreaming). The problem is, I have no idea how to (cheaply) program the strobe light for 3 second intervals, several times a night. Every commercial outlet timer I've seen has a 1 minute minimum interval setting, and I'm technically inept.

*Summary: This experiment was intended to determine whether I could recognize an external light source while I'm dreaming and use it to trigger lucidity in my dreams. In that regard, it's a total success, works about 90% of the time. Sadly, I just don't know how to stay in the dream while the flashing goes on for a full minute.

* :morecrying: *

*At least it seems to be helping me become lucid naturally in between scheduled flashes, so it's still a big help overall.

*I think there's a slim chance that I can keep reducing the brightness with more sheets of colored paper until it's just bright enough to make me lucid, but soft enough not to wake me up or wipe out my dreamscape. This may mean I'll notice it less often, but it might help me go straight into an LD once in awhile...
*

*Well, that's all for now, except of course, if anyone reading this knows (or knows someone who knows) how I can cheaply program the Strobe Light for 3 second intervals, without needing a degree in electronics, please, please, please post it here.

* :help: *

*I would be forever grateful... * *:bowdown:

I have a Grainger’s catalog and it has all kinds of timers in it. You just have to specify the voltage and amp load basically and what function. You can have on when power applied and off at a preset limit. Most digital controls are calibrated by the seconds. You may have to solder a few connections to get it connected, but not high tech stuff.

Pandragon

05-02-2005, 12:33 AM

Thanks for your advice guys. :)

Bricnic - sorry I should have read your previous post more carefully.

The 3 non strobe-light idea does sound like it would be both quiet and effective. Although I think the cost might be an issue. The timers I am using are $20 a piece. They do make a fairly loud click at each on/off cycle, but I simply attach them to extension cords, place them in a box, and cover it with a thick blanket. Haven't heard them since.

Although it took some time to work out the bugs, I'm happy to say both the light and noise issues are pretty much solved. At this point, I just need to get back to a normal sleep schedule in order to test the new set up properly.

dreamtamer - Thanks for the tip. The 2 timer system Luck27 suggested (plugging one timer into another and setting the cycles a few seconds apart) has been working perfectly so far. But I'm definitely going to check out that catalog. After all, there's always room for improvement!

:wink:

Amethyst Star

05-02-2005, 01:19 PM

Well, since you're solving the noise issue, I was just going to suggest for other people who may be looking at this thread that it's possible to sleep with not headphones, but simple ear plugs. There are foam and wax ones and they can lower decible levels quite well and aren't so uncomfortable that you can't get used to wearing them.

-Amé

Pandragon

05-02-2005, 03:27 PM

Thanks Amethyst Star.

Yeah, I've pretty much got the noise issue under control. But I'm sure someone else might find those earplugs very helpful.

I started this thread because I saw several people had posted about using a strobe light successfully, but none gave a detailed account of their experiences.

I wanted to keep a record of my experiences in case I ran into problems (which obviously I have) or had some success (which I also have had) and that way others could decide if it was worth their time and money.

So please feel free to post any ideas or suggestions that come to mind. If there's one thing I've learned around here, it's that no single method works for everyone.

:)

jediflight

05-03-2005, 01:10 AM

Pandragon,

You rock. I have been following your experiment from the day you posted it. I have not commented on this site very often. I have to tell you though that your whole attitude is the way to go. Your data and feedback have convinced me to try the strobelight. I already have one. I just need to go buy the timers and the red cloth paper. I just wanted you to know that I really appreciate your great attitude to your approach on Lucid Dreaming. :) :D :!:

Pandragon

05-03-2005, 02:38 AM

Thanks Jedi! I really appreciate that you took the time to say that. :D

Of course, I just wanna say for the record that I'm not try to convince anyone to do what I do. But I figured if anyone else was thinking of trying the strobe light, I wanted them to at least have some idea of what they could expect.

I hope you'll come back and let us know how your experiment is going.

Good Luck! :goodjob2:

dreamtamer007

05-04-2005, 08:03 PM

The strobe light sounds like a good idea because it seems to me that it would divert your attention more then a steady light. I am going to add that to my list of things to try. I was thinking. If the strobe is the best way to go, then maybe a portable unit like a small flashlight to carry in the daytime to use with Reality Checks might increase the odds of it working. Especially if you can get one that would flash at the same rate as the night devise. Just a thought.

Pandragon

05-05-2005, 03:10 AM

Yeah, I can definitely say that the flashing of the strobe light works far better for me than a steady light. I briefly tried switching from the strobe to a small lamp with a 7.5 watt bulb. It didn't work at all. It would either wake me up or I wouldn't notice it in my dreams.

There's something specific about the flashing of the strobe that makes it much more noticeable in my dreams. I think it's because the flashes cause such large changes in my dreams that I'm more likely to notice my mind making an effort to "explain" it with sudden changes in the dreamscape. Such as a sudden change from night to day, then back to night and back to day, in rapid succession. That kind of alteration can be hard to overlook, even in a dream.

With the regular lamp, it seemed like it was too easy for my mind to ignore. Like a single change from night to day and then back to night once the cycle ended. Somehow it wasn't enough to catch my attention.

As for a portable device to use with a Reality Checks. I don't know if it would help or not. I actually have yet to really stick to the Reality Check method for more than a week. But I'm planning to give it another try.

I was thinking of looking at my hands for an RC, and every time I do, say to myself either silently or out loud, "When I am dreaming, I look at my hands and realize that I'm dreaming." I figure I might as well make an affirmation out of it at the same time.

One thing that might also be worth trying would be to do the RC's at about the same frequency as the on/off cycles for the strobe. I usually set the timers to go off every 15-30 minutes, so if I was doing my RC's every 15-30 minutes, they might match up while I'm dreaming...?

dreamtamer007

05-05-2005, 03:26 PM

[quote]Yeah, I can definitely say that the flashing of the strobe light works far better for me than a steady light. quote]

What kind of strobe do you use? Do you know the wattage and is it a florescent color or just bright white? I was thinking about getting one, maybe one bright enough to us with about three mirrors so it comes from all directions. What do you think about that?

Pandragon

05-05-2005, 11:20 PM

I use a "Room Moodz" strobe light, the cheapest one I could find. It's sold at Toys R Us and Amazon.com for $20. It's a 20 Watt, 60Hz, 120V AC.

The light is a bright white, and comes with 3 colored filters. However I find the light is so bright that the filters don't do much good. Instead I just tape sheets of red colored tissue paper over the light until it's the right level of brightness. For me, that's about 30 sheets at this point, but I've considered adding more.

I don't know if the mirrors are necessary. I guess it all depends on how you sleep, and where you mount the strobe. I have mine mounted on the wall over my head, facing down (obviously you want to be very careful mounting it properly and securely if you plan to do this). So the light hits my eyes no matter what position I'm sleeping in.

I think it's important to mention that I've found it was necessary to purchase additional materials to make this system work properly - 2 outlet timers ($20 each) and red tissue paper ($2), and of course the strobe ($20) for a total of $62. Not to mention you'll probably also need a couple extension cords, but I had them lying around already.

Just want folks to know that while it's certainly cheaper than a Nova Dreamer, it does require a bit of cash to get started...

dreamtamer007

05-06-2005, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by Pandragon
I use a \"Room Moodz\" strobe light, the cheapest one I could find. It's sold at Toys R Us and Amazon.com for $20. It's a 20 Watt, 60Hz, 120V AC.

*The light is a bright white, and comes with 3 colored filters. However I find the light is so bright that the filters don't do much good. Instead I just tape sheets of red colored tissue paper over the light until it's the right level of brightness. For me, that's about 30 sheets at this point, but I've considered adding more.

*I don't know if the mirrors are necessary. I guess it all depends on how you sleep, and where you mount the strobe. I have mine mounted on the wall over my head, facing down (obviously you want to be very careful mounting it properly and securely if you plan to do this). So the light hits my eyes no matter what position I'm sleeping in.

*I think it's important to mention that I've found it was necessary to purchase additional materials to make this system work properly - 2 outlet timers ($20 each) and red tissue paper ($2), and of course the strobe ($20) for a total of $62. Not to mention you'll probably also need a couple extension cords, but I had them lying around already.

*Just want folks to know that while it's certainly cheaper than a Nova Dreamer, it does require a bit of cash to get started...

Thanks Pandragon I just spent $35 for a couple of books on LDing ,$30 in gas,$3 for the bridge to the next state to find a good book store and then I spent over an hour in traffic getting there. I guess it all depends on how far you would go to get what you want (.What Would You Do For a Klondike Bar) if you don't live in the US you may not have seen that commercial :-P