Experience WILDers - Please Clarify

[Xei]

I've been WILDing on and off for some months now. Still no Lucid Dream, but I have had some sucess.

The first time that I ever tried, I got into the transitional stage. I felt strong vibrations, and quite a bit of other stuff. It was pretty fun, actually. :)

However, that was the only time I got such strong sensations.

I've had another shot at it recently. I find it very easy to get to the point at which my body feels light, numb, and 'paralysed' now, and sometimes I start to feel some motion-based sensations. However, I still have no idea how to go from here to a Lucid Dream. The problem is that there are quite a few contradicting explanations of what you have to do. Some say that you can 'roll' straight from this point into a dream. Others say that you just wait for the sensations to intensify, and then the dream just 'hits' you, or that you have to 'grab on' to your HI...

What I'd really appreciate is a clear explanation of how you (personally or generally) get into a dream from where I am at the moment. By the way - I normally attempt to WILD when I first go to bed.

Don't hesitate to ask for any more info. :)

All help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Xei.

[Seeker]

I don't know if it has anything to do with your case or not, but I can NEVER successfully WILD when first going to bed, always at least 6 hours of sleep are required for me.

[Merlock]

I'm training WILDing exactly when going to sleep for the first time simply because I can't set an alarm clock for several reasons. However, when I do wake up during the night I attempt HILDing and WILDing.

P.S. Hey Seeker, have you ever tried any audio aids for lucidity when going to sleep? I'm talking about any audio stimulation from outside to help stay aware enough? Just curious about any experience on that point someone with your skill might have.

[Xei]

Originally posted by Seeker
I don't know if it has anything to do with your case or not, but I can NEVER successfully WILD when first going to bed, always at least 6 hours of sleep are required for me.

Okay, thanks for that. However, I have tried to WILD after 6 hours of sleep, too... I always fall asleep. I suppose I'll have to wake myself up a little more.

I'd still like to know the answer to the main question, if someone would be so kind. :)

[RooJ]

I don't know if it has anything to do with your case or not, but I can NEVER successfully WILD when first going to bed, always at least 6 hours of sleep are required for me. [/b]

Seeker,
Without wanting to hijack the post... i was just wondering, what goes wrong when you try at night before bed? The main issue i have is excitement at seeing really vivid HI, gets me everytime. The reason i ask is because obviously WILDS before bed are achievable... what stops your WILD attempts?

Xei,
I only seem to get as far as really vivid imagery, i nod off and wake a few minutes later really groggy... All my WILDS have come after just waking up. Good luck however, id be interested to know if you find a solution. Oh, and how do you guys keep from falling asleep? you have a technique or just more willpower then me :) ?


Edit: have you tried Astral projection exit methods? Whether you believe in it or not the people who practice it achieve some amazing experiences (might just be lucid dreams but if so some of them are WILD experts).
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopi...pic.php?t=18095 (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18095) - some methods

One of the more interesting methods which is very closely linked to WILDS is Franks J Kepples phasing methods.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopi...pic.php?t=17413 (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17413)
look for information on "noticing" and "mental rundowns" when reading up on phasing


best of luck,

>Roo

[Xei]

Wonderful! So, these are alternate methods to 'grabbing images', and variations of 'rolling'? And they have to be done from a stage at which you are paralysed?

I think I understand. I'll try them right now, in fact. I have the nicest feeling that they'll work.

Goodnight. ;)

PS. I liked the way that the immersion into faint HI was described in that second method. "Swirling areas of not quite so black"... I've always stuggled on explaining what I see, but that did it very well. I will have to remember that link. :)

Your help is greatly appreciated, RooJ.

*Hearty virtual handshake*

[RooJ]

2 more posts i think you will find interesting, and before you read them F2oc (focus 2 of conciousness) is the lucid dream state.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopi...pic.php?t=19344 (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19344) - Third post onwards.

saved the most interesting till last :).

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopi...pic.php?t=18986 (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18986) - This post is an experience with mental rundowns and lots of very interesting information from Frank.

Mental rundown's have alot of potential, there basically a method of occupying the mind while the body falls asleep. So you perform a mental rundown in your head in an attempt to lose awareness of your body and your physical surroundings (your 5 senses etc). In turn you gain awareness in your mind, the dream scene your creating becomes your main focus of attention which pulls your awareness in. You engage more of your senses into the scene, you add in sounds and touch objects, watch the scenery etc... And hopefully you suddenly find that your actually stood in the scene instead of just imagining it.

As for how well it works, ive only tried it a few times. I have a bad habit of falling asleep which i need to combat first. Ive had near success twice however when i almost entered imagery. My rundowns tend to be somewhat boring, i used to imagine myself on a set of concrete steps in a graffiti filled subway, dirt everywhere. I walk down the steps to a door at the bottom, i hear and feel my footsteps on the hard concrete, feel the hard cold stone of the walls with my hands as i continue decending. I dont normally pass through the door, theres enough on the stairway to occupy me (easily pleased maybe?).

As you can imagine there are infinite rundowns to choose from, so its finding whats best for you. Otherwise you can stick with the noticing excercise as you fall asleep and let nature take its course so to speak.

>RooJ

[Xei]

Hooray!

*Dances*

Last night, I had breakthrough no. 2. :)

No, I didn't LD, but I have a feeling I was pretty close.

I was sitting in bed, watching the swirling areas of not-so-black. Actually, they became pretty intense... After a while, I concentrated on my body like I normally do, and found out that it was numb. I decided that I still wasn't submerged into my mind enough, so I tried to fall asleep some more.

I remember having a strange feeling that I was a pyramid, racing through a tunnel...

But anyway, after that I focused on my body again... And I had a really weird feeling. I don't think I can describe it... But I sort of felt that my physical body wasn't entirely attatched to my dream body any more.

At this point, I tried to sit my dream body up. It felt really weird... And I got a feeling in my stomach, very strong... It was something like excitement. I didn't manage to sever the two bodies, but when I stopped trying, I felt vibrations (quite slow), as if I was in the transitional stage. They stopped after about five seconds. I tried again, with the same result; failure, and vibrations. I tried the methods that RooJ posted, but they failed, too. I also tried getting out of my bed sideways, and that felt as if I came very close to getting away from my physical body.

So... What's the verdict from the experts? I'd love to know what happened, and what I need to do differently.

By the way, at what stage should you try astral projection, because I don't think I go into the transitional stage before I feel numb...

Thanks for all of your help, RooJ. I'll look at those links.

[Roller]

Hey there, great progress, keep up the work. I haven't tried a proper wild for a long time now, but reading this thread has made me want to get back into it again, and wake up early for it. I was beginning to loose faith, but I had a small lucid last night so I'm starting to feel confident.

[Xei]

Thanks. ;)

I'd still like to know how you get from SP / Stage 4 into a Lucid Dream, if anyone could help.

It's something that the tutorial seems to miss out... I hear that you just wait for your HI to intensify... Or something along those lines.

But... Do they do so after you go through Stage 4..?

Sorry, I'm just clueless when it comes to this section.

[Classico]

I try and WILD whenever I can, and that really is alot- I just tried two hours ago after getting 6+ hours of sleep.

The type of failed attempt I just had I like to call the 'Black Hole Effect.' You get relaxed, nothing extraordinary, and concentrate on your breathing. Hypnagogic images start to appear at some point, sometimes even with Low Defition Viewing- yet it fades and you suddenly realise "This isn't going to work" and get up... ofcourse the clock is ahead two hours and you have no idea what happened to that last hour.

I remember my dreams everynight, so I'm fairly certain I didn't just fall asleep, so I think I inadvertently relaxed my conscience to the point of losing self awareness to an extent.


Over the last month I have had some great results with thinking clearly and efficiently. Since beggining to WILD I have gained a ability to think in moving pictures over 25% of the time when trying. All I have to do is shut my eyes and I can see what I'm thinking. This alone is a gift and a half, then at night when trying to WILD I ALWAYS get intense HI at some point or another, usually instantly. I can see leaves littering the ground by the beach, each an every leaf detailed.

Or I can see people instantly and very clearly, although this always seems to excite me out of the next step though; So I think I will shift back over to counting while I focus on my breath, I am beggining to think my mind is falling too asleep and gets very startled at the abrupt imagery 20 minutes or so into the WILD. This happens two or more times despite trying to not get excited (not a problem my first LD WILD success), where as counting might prevent this.

[Howie]

Originally posted by Xei
Thanks. ;)

I'd still like to know how you get from SP / Stage 4 into a Lucid Dream, if anyone could help.

It's something that the tutorial seems to miss out... I hear that you just wait for your HI to intensify... Or something along those lines.

But... Do they do so after you go through Stage 4..?

Sorry, I'm just clueless when it comes to this section.

I must first say I have been wanting to mention how awesome your avatar is. I completley love it!! :)

IF you look at HI as a whole rather than stages it may be clearer.
Simlpy put.
When you begin to see hynagogic imagery, notice it. But do not focus on anyone image.
let it flow.
The images will begin to become more vivid.
*The two things you now have to do is maintain a balance. Stay alert enough to let these imagages progress directly into a dream.
And when the images start to become lifelike to not let yourself get too excited. Be prepared for them.

[Ev]

There's a whole spectrum of near dreaming states. They are quite hard to recognize without enough experience. I dont think you will get anything out of them at this point.

I think your best shot at WILD is to expect really strong sensations that most people describe. Believe me, it is nothing like the numbness or slight shifting or "not feeling your arms" thingie you get from not moving for a long time. WILD onset hits you like a freight train. You WILL feel it.

There are 2 types of WILDs - one is when you remain aware as you enter a dream and another when you wake up and immidiately go back to sleep. Try going for both types of WILDs.

Attempting WILD when you first go to bed is not a very good idea. You will have to lay in your bed for a very long time just to get a shot at it, unless you are falling asleep very fast.

[Xei]

I must first say I have been wanting to mention how awesome your avatar is. I completley love it!! :)

Thank you! :)

It's how I imagine my dreamsky...

[quote]There's a whole spectrum of near dreaming states. They are quite hard to recognize without enough experience. I dont think you will get anything out of them at this point.

I think your best shot at WILD is to expect really strong sensations that most people describe. Believe me, it is nothing like the numbness or slight shifting or \"not feeling your arms\" thingie you get from not moving for a long time. WILD onset hits you like a freight train. You WILL feel it.

There are 2 types of WILDs - one is when you remain aware as you enter a dream and another when you wake up and immidiately go back to sleep. Try going for both types of WILDs.

Attempting WILD when you first go to bed is not a very good idea. You will have to lay in your bed for a very long time just to get a shot at it, unless you are falling asleep very fast.

Many thanks for this post, it explains a lot to me.

By the way, I'm pretty sure I've had WILD sensations before. I felt like my bed was shaking as if I was on a very turbulent plane. That was the first time I ever tried to WILD, strangely, plus it was when I first went to bed.

I'm sure I could have a WILD, if I just went to bed a couple of hours earlier at weekends and set my alarm clock. I really will try this weekend. Last time, I had it all planned out, but my sister turned my alarm off. Both days! That made me angry... I'm still planning how to get my own back. :-P

Oh, by the way, on the same note: Why do people also try to WILD at midday? Is this a natural sort of 'shortcut' period in which you can go straight to the dream period?

[Howie]

Originally posted by Xei
Oh, by the way, on the same note: Why do people also try to WILD at midday? Is this a natural sort of 'shortcut' period in which you can go straight to the dream period?

A believe because your conscoious mind is more activeand alert than opon going to sleep that a lot of people have a lot of succuss with napps & sleeping during the day.

[Ex Nine]

I've WILDed a good handful of times, including one just recently that I was able to do in the early evening, after 6:00pm. I've done it on a sunny afternoon, in the morning before lunch, during the middle of night, the early morning before getting out of bed, all over the place.

So, I thought I was hot shit (still do, sort of) and brushed off all this nonsense about it being the most difficult before going to bed at night. How hard can be? I'd be the first human to do it ten nights in a row, I thought. A couple of years have gone by and I haven't been able to do it once. I've tried all sorts of stuff. I've even tried not trying, you know, going for a few weeks or a month without attempts, or only trying once a week, or... etc. Oh, I get all the HI and vibrations and sinking feelings and all that. Believe me, I wouldn't have tried so long if I didn't think it was just over the horizon. But no dice.

I concur with Ev. If it's not coming at you like an earthquake, I doubt anything is really happening. I've had years of what I consider failures with the sensations that most people on this board describe as success.

Originally posted by Classico
I try and WILD whenever I can, and that really is alot- I just tried two hours ago after getting 6+ hours of sleep.

The type of failed attempt I just had I like to call the 'Black Hole Effect.' You get relaxed, nothing extraordinary, and concentrate on your breathing. Hypnagogic images start to appear at some point, sometimes even with Low Defition Viewing- yet it fades and you suddenly realise \"This isn't going to work\" and get up... ofcourse the clock is ahead two hours and you have no idea what happened to that last hour.

Oh lord am I familiar with this. That's a great name for it. Good to have you as a fellow experimenter here at DV, Classico!

You know, this is just the type of thing that would be great to record in a Wiki. Check it out.

http://lucid.wikicities.com/wiki/Black_Hole_Effect

A Wiki is just the place for us to collect new grassroots knowledge about WILDs. Next up will have to be one for Low Definition Viewing.

We need to be acting like a community of scientists and make up our own specialized words. ;)

[Classico]

Thanks, I really enjoy the cooperation on this forum. If I put some time into it I could elaborate on the Wiki, I didn't even realise we had a Wiki.

[Ex Nine]

Originally posted by Classico
Thanks, I really enjoy the cooperation on this forum. If I put some time into it I could elaborate on the Wiki, I didn't even realise we had a Wiki.

"We" don't, at least not in the sense of official affiliation with DV.

Identity X is a founder, though.

http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15239
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14156

[Xei]

I, too, have experienced such an effect.

It feels quite horrible... A sort of mix between depression and hopelessness. :|

I've only felt it once though. Then I just curled up and went to sleep.

[Classico]

Aye, thats even worse.

I have to admit, the large majority of my failed attempts bring about depression. I really can't help it, my mind races with thoughts- driving long distances alone also causes this to happen. Once I get on a topic my mind can be blank (As with WILD) and still have this weird Overshadowing that lasts for hours.

[Ex Nine]

You guys may consider yourself lucky, if you haven't been doing it a long time. ;)

And yet, you have already become aware of it as something substantial and predictable. That means you can prevent it or work around it, or at least eventually find ways to.