God is not mocked!

[Awaken4e1]

As many of you have observed in these forums, a rampant deluge of blasphemous, unclean assertions towards our God, without even a thought of their response to our Creator for their idle words, at the appointed time of their end in flesh. As it is stated many times throughout the Word man is judged by ‘his’ own words and he is ‘freed’ by those same words spoken throughout the course of his life.

Many of you I’m sure are scoffing these words as you read them, but I say to you now ‘Be Warned!’ God is not mocked, what so ever you sow with the tongue you shall reap with your life. But, far be it from me to revel that this is the same reason many of you have fallen away from God’s love, being convinced of your own words of evil.

Being convinced in your own minds of your own intellectual superiority, believing that if you don’t believe in something, makes it non-existent. When in fact knowing that one does not know all things, is wisdom indeed. So, in at that day when you stand before Him whom you have cursed, ‘you can not say that you did not know the consequences of you’re actions,’ because you have just read them.

Mat 12:36 `And I say to you, that every idle word that men may speak, they shall give for it a reckoning in a day of judgment;
Mat 12:37 for from thy words thou shalt be declared righteous, and from thy words thou shalt be declared unrighteous.'

The Rev.

[Universal Mind]

You still have not explained how God's balls are not in your mouth.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Universal Mind
You still have not explained how God's balls are not in your mouth.

Non-Sequitur!

[Gwendolyn]

Prove to me, in a scientific manner (without quoting Bible verses) that God exists and perhaps I would heed your words. Just because you believe something, doesn't mean others have to. You won't go to hell (supposing there is a God) for what others say, so why do you even care? Don't worry, if I go to hell, because of something I said, then it's my concern.

Thanks for caring about my 'soul' though. :angel:

[Ynot]

easy there, fella
blimey
someone really pissed in your font, this time
UM, you bad boy

but being the christian motif
I have no doubt you are tolerant of others
and as Gwen said - condemnation or a pass to heaven is a choice only you can make
no-one can make the choice for you

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Gwendolyn
Prove to me, in a scientific manner (without quoting Bible verses) that God exists and perhaps I would heed your words. Just because you believe something, doesn't mean others have to. You won't go to hell (supposing there is a God) for what others say, so why do you even care? Don't worry, if I go to hell, because of something I said, then it's my concern.

Thanks for caring about my 'soul' though. :angel:[/b]

Prove to me, in a scientific manner (without quoting Bible verses) that God exists and perhaps I would heed your words. Just because you believe something, doesn't mean others have to. You won't go to hell (supposing there is a God) for what others say, so why do you even care? Don't worry; if I go to hell, because of something I said, then it's my concern. [/b]

Prove to me, in a scientific manner (without quoting Bible verses) that God does not exist, and perhaps I would heed your words.

Just because you believe something, doesn't mean others have to. [/b]

Just because ‘you’ believe something does not mean it does not exist.
God is weather you believe or not.

You won't go to hell (supposing there is a God) for what others say, so why do you even care? [/b]

I care because you’re soul is the most valuable thing in the entire super-verse.

Don't worry; if I go to hell, because of something I said, then it's my concern. [/b]

No its mine to because God tells me to tell all creation of His Loving Word…

[Barbizzle]

There is no God. Just get over it man and take some biology classes.

[Lucius]

I was just browsing about abit..just wanted to say something:

If God, concretely, does exist like christians say for example, I know he is all-loving and enlightned, he would have to be, as he's god. An all loving and enlightned god would not be hurt, not even touched by any curses or mockery thrown his way. Be loving like he is, and it's alright. A true god is above mockery and such ;)

An enlightned god is (entirely) selfless, not selfish. Therefor he did not create earth for his own pleasure, or for him to be worshipped or even respected. He created it, so humans have a chance to experience something beautiful (Even though we mess up hehe), he did it for us. Not for himself. Ask yourself when you do something, think about the motivation. Do you do 'good deeds' because you want to aquire respect, fame, followers? OR because you want to actually do something for others?
Therefor I believe that God will not judge by whether or not you believe in him, or make jokes about him (fact I believe he doesnt judge at all but thats besides the point), God is not close minded, he looks at the bigger picture and what he is really trying to do. He wants to see people happy, smiling and in peace, and as long as you don't mess this planet up to badly, he'll welcome you with open arms :) Thats what I think.

A truly loving god's priority is his/her children's happiness, not their own satisfaction.

Now I don't know if I totally went beyond this topic, but I never post down here but I just felt like saying this because I'm sure many people will agree with me. Nobody is going to be judged like that. God, is love. ;) And you are your own judge.

Just my humble opinion ^_~ Oh and by all means I do respect all people that do believe in the classic meaning of 'God' the father/creator..whatever makes people happy and comfortable. Religion can be beautiful

[Awaken4e1]

Man is judged by his own words... as previously posted

[Gwendolyn]

Originally posted by Lucius
I was just browsing about abit..just wanted to say something:

If God, concretely, does exist like christians say for example, I know he is all-loving and enlightned, he would have to be, as he's god. An all loving and enlightned god would not be hurt, not even touched by any curses or mockery thrown his way. Be loving like he is, and it's alright. A true god is above mockery and such ;)

An enlightned god is (entirely) selfless, not selfish. Therefor he did not create earth for his own pleasure, or for him to be worshipped or even respected. He created it, so humans have a chance to experience something beautiful (Even though we mess up hehe), he did it for us. Not for himself. Ask yourself when you do something, think about the motivation. Do you do 'good deeds' because you want to aquire respect, fame, followers? OR because you want to actually do something for others?
Therefor I believe that God will not judge by whether or not you believe in him, or make jokes about him (fact I believe he doesnt judge at all but thats besides the point), God is not close minded, he looks at the bigger picture and what he is really trying to do. He wants to see people happy, smiling and in peace, and as long as you don't mess this planet up to badly, he'll welcome you with open arms :) Thats what I think.

A truly loving god's priority is his/her children's happiness, not their own satisfaction.

Now I don't know if I totally went beyond this topic, but I never post down here but I just felt like saying this because I'm sure many people will agree with me. Nobody is going to be judged like that. God, is love. ;) And you are your own judge.

Just my humble opinion ^_~ Oh and by all means I do respect all people that do believe in the classic meaning of 'God' the father/creator..whatever makes people happy and comfortable. Religion can be beautiful

As most may well know, I am agnostic. However, if there is a God, I would think God would be like this. I personally think that God is more a force, like Karma, rather than a dude looking down on us from a cloud or something.

Oh, and Lucius, I love it when you share your beautiful words with us. You have much wisdom to share, and I hope you will never withold it.

[Nirvana Starseed]

Awaken4e1
Mat 12:36 `And I say to you, that every idle word that men may speak, they shall give for it a reckoning in a day of judgment;
Mat 12:37 for from thy words thou shalt be declared righteous, and from thy words thou shalt be declared unrighteous.' [/b]

I think you are approaching it in a rather religious fashion. Which I gather has something to do with your background and experiences understanding etc.

In regards to your quote.
What you say is important. What you think is just as important. And most important is what you do. By all these things, and your life lived will be that which determines your level of righteousness or unrighteousness in the eye of the truth. To this extent will you have the glory or shame. Pain or Blis of that.

[Nirvana Starseed]

Originally posted by Lucius

If God, concretely, does exist like christians say for example, I know he is all-loving and enlightned, he would have to be, as he's god. An all loving and enlightned god would not be hurt, not even touched by any curses or mockery thrown his way. Be loving like he is, and it's alright. A true god is above mockery and such

In other words \"god\" is righteous and powerful. Not weak and demonlike.

An enlightned god is (entirely) selfless, not selfish. Therefor he did not create earth for his own pleasure, or for him to be worshipped or even respected. He created it, so humans have a chance to experience something beautiful[/b]

This post by the way is one of the more sensible things posted at DV. However selfless ultimately we are. For we are all one. It's just the definition of self that determines the level of enlightenment. Pure Selfless Love is a quality of god. Which I assume is what you are speaking of.

(Even though we mess up hehe), he did it for us. Not for himself. Ask yourself when you do something, think about the motivation. Do you do 'good deeds' because you want to aquire respect, fame, followers? OR because you want to actually do something for others?[/b]

Once again it is this selfless quality gained and revealed in oneself that is the mark of enlightenment and godlike consiousness.

Therefor I believe that God will not judge by whether or not you believe in him, or make jokes about him (fact I believe he doesnt judge at all but thats besides the point), God is not close minded, he looks at the bigger picture and what he is really trying to do. He wants to see people happy, smiling and in peace, and as long as you don't mess this planet up to badly, he'll welcome you with open arms Thats what I think.[/b]

\"god\" welcomes with open arms. Because that is part of what god does, as a result of the enlightened consiousness. It is not a projection of the consiousness of humanity, so such a consiousness cannot be understood through it.

A truly loving god's priority is his/her children's happiness, not their own satisfaction.[/b]

Ones god like consiousness gains satisfaction through the happiness and completeness of others naturally.

Now I don't know if I totally went beyond this topic, but I never post down here but I just felt like saying this because I'm sure many people will agree with me. Nobody is going to be judged like that. God, is love. And you are your own judge.[/b]

Natural law of the truth is what is going to make you judge yourself.

Just my humble opinion ^_~ [/b]
Wrong context to be humble. You were are on the right track.

[kimpossible]

Now here I specifically remember having mocked your god. In order not to get that, he must be as deluded as his followers. Deaf, Dumb, Blind and STOOOPID. That's a heck of a being you've associated yourself with!

Further proof that god doesn't exist: It's tough to believe an infinitely powerful being would need such a bunch of pathetic losers running around threatening people for him. You'd think he could get better help. I know *I* go out of my way to surround myself with winners.

[Raz]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
Man is judged by his own words... as previously posted

As is god...

And who are you to judge what god dose and dose not want? Did he tell you this?

From the book of Raz:
1.st and last # And man shall live and experiance and in the end we will be one...

Is my quote less holy then yours? Was the quote you wrote done by gods hand? Or by a human hand?

By gods hand through a human you say?

What makes that human so special?

You sure the people in this forum is not writing by the hand of god?

[spoon]

Many of you I’m sure are scoffing these words as you read them, but I say to you now ‘Be Warned!’ God is not mocked, what so ever you sow with the tongue you shall reap with your life. But, far be it from me to revel that this is the same reason many of you have fallen away from God’s love, being convinced of your own words of evil. [/b]

Be warned awaken, Zeus does not take well to false prophets. Your unclean assertions on the "true nature of god" have all been mockeries of Zeus - the one and only truth. While your false god may have room for forgiveness know that Zeus has had enough of your words of evil, and he has no forgiveness in his heart. When you stand in judgement before his most holy power you will not say "I did not know", beacuse you have been warned.

The moral of the story? Just because you've read a holy book doesn't make your belief correct. Zeus is just as valid a belief as your god, and he's pissed off that you don't like him. And behind him theres Kali, Marduuk, Vishnu, Yahweh (the jewish version), Yahweh (the muslim version), ad infinitum. Kim's probably in there somewhere too.

Your faith is just as valid as any others.

[Rakkantekimusouka]

Originally posted by Universal Mind
You still have not explained how God's balls are not in your mouth.
Frankly I think this thread could have ended right there, no idea why the replies continued...:laughhard:

Anyway, Rev-Rev, stop crying, "Non-Sequitur!" It doesn't matter now, this forum is a fully-sanctioned free-for-all.

As for my input at this point: Raz, I shall live by your commandment forever and ever. :bowdown: :content:

[Universal Mind]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1


Non-Sequitur!

Details! Saying, "Non sequitur," is the equivalent of saying, "You know, there is a good counter argument against that." What specifically is it? All counter arguments imply that the countered argument involves a conclusion that does not follow from the premise. So throwing that term at me with no details to back it up is a 100% ineffective debate strategy. You boast that my argument has a flaw in it. I challenge you to tell me specifically what it is, and I assert that you can't, unless you say that God is not omnipresent. That, I will agree with.

The moral of the story? Just because you've read a holy book doesn't make your belief correct. Zeus is just as valid a belief as your god, and he's pissed off that you don't like him. And behind him theres Kali, Marduuk, Vishnu, Yahweh (the jewish version), Yahweh (the muslim version), ad infinitum. Kim's probably in there somewhere too.

Wrong, infidel! There is only one Kim! Her infinite love will not be blasphemed by talk of other Gods, if you want to avoid eternal torture! :mad:

[Awaken4e1]

If you had read my preceding post then you would know that this is a true and valid statement with no other explanation.

Zeus is just as valid a belief as your god, and he's pissed off that you don't like him.[/b]

True as that may be in your estimation, (Jesus is the Greek name of the Son of Zeus,) So in your understands I do believe in Him, and His Son...

The Rev.

[Ex Nine]

Does anyone else remember those "____ Ate My Balls" sites in the early days of the web?

[Barbizzle]

(Jesus is the Greek name of the Son of Zeus,)[/b]

what the hell are you talking about. Zeus never had a son named Jesus...

[Ynot]

Zeus' son was Hercules, weren't it?

Half man - half god
to be honest, jesus by any other name
'cept jesus never had a big serrated bastard sword

[spoon]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
True as that may be in your estimation, (Jesus is the Greek name of the Son of Zeus,) So in your understands I do believe in Him, and His Son... You just like making stuff up don't you. Jesus is a rendering of the greek name \"IHSOUS \". From etymonline.com (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=jesus&searchmode=none)

Originally posted by I
The moral of the story? Just because you've read a holy book doesn't make your belief correct. Zeus is just as valid a belief as your god, and he's pissed off that you don't like him. And behind him theres Kali, Marduuk, Vishnu, Yahweh (the jewish version), Yahweh (the muslim version), ad infinitum. Kim's probably in there somewhere too.

[Raz]

Originally posted by Rakkantekimusouka

As for my input at this point: Raz, I shall live by your commandment forever and ever. :bowdown: :content:

Not my commandment. God wrote it through me so I cant take the credit.

Also God demands candy or we will all go to hell. Send me CANDY!

This is a new religion. Live your life with a good heart and give ME the high priest of the candy man, candy and you are asured heaven in the after life!

All true! (Expept for the lies)

[R.Carter]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1

Being convinced in your own minds of your own intellectual superiority, believing that if you don’t believe in something, makes it non-existent. When in fact knowing that one does not know all things, is wisdom indeed.
The Rev.

I personally don't profess to know all things,Rev, so by your definition I am a wise
person. Thanks for that ! In regards to the first half of this quote ; that's a point of view
that applies to you as well, doesn't it ? If you believe yourself to be a man of wisdom,
by your own definition, wouldn't you have to admit that the atheist standpoint has the potential to be as accurate as your own ? Not saying that you have to believe in it
or renounce your faith . Just accept the possibility , as a man of wisdom. Also,
what's your story Rev ? Let us get a glimpse of your journey to enlightenment;
check out the "Post Your Path " thread.R.C.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by R.Carter


I personally don't profess to know all things,Rev, so by your definition I am a wise
person. Thanks for that ! In regards to the first half of this quote ; that's a point of view
that applies to you as well, doesn't it ? If you believe yourself to be a man of wisdom,
by your own definition, wouldn't you have to admit that the atheist standpoint has the potential to be as accurate as your own ? Not saying that you have to believe in it
or renounce your faith . Just accept the possibility , as a man of wisdom. Also,
what's your story Rev ? Let us get a glimpse of your journey to enlightenment;
check out the \"Post Your Path \" thread.R.C.

No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care!

Good Post! I would be a 'fool' that some may know Christ

The Rev.

[R.Carter]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1


No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care!

Good Post! I would be a 'fool' that some may know Christ

The Rev.
Genuinely disappointed Rev. :thumbdown:
You completely avoided the question concearning a wise man being able to accept
the possibility of something without believing in it.
Try again, please; if only for your own credibility. Here,it's easy,I'll show you.

As an atheist I don't believe in God , but I accept the possibility that I may be wrong.
Nothing has come close to giving me faith in who you say is our creater , yet I
do not know everything. I just have faith in my belief as do you.

So ,Rev, how wise are you ? Will you swallow your pride and concede the possibility
that you too may be wrong ? Or will you fall just as your good book teaches is the consequence of such pride ?

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by R.Carter

Genuinely disappointed Rev. :thumbdown:
You completely avoided the question concearning a wise man being able to accept
the possibility of something without believing in it.
Try again, please; if only for your own credibility. Here,it's easy,I'll show you.

As an atheist I don't believe in God , but I accept the possibility that I may be wrong.
Nothing has come close to giving me faith in who you say is our creater , yet I
do not know everything. I just have faith in my belief as do you.

So ,Rev, how wise are you ? Will you swallow your pride and concede the possibility
that you too may be wrong ? Or will you fall just as your good book teaches is the consequence of such pride ?

All things are possible with God

[R.Carter]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1


All things are possible with God

You're still avoiding the question,sir. A man with your obvious faith ( it's well documented
in this forum) should be able to respond without fear .
I'm asking you to speak for yourself, not for God. If all thing are possible with God then
why won't you respond ? Or am I not getting it ? Is this your way of saying " Yes,other
beliefs may be valid. " ? Please clarify , the platitudes you hide behind look like unease.

[InTheMoment]

Originally posted by R.Carter


You're still avoiding the question,sir. I man with your obvious faith ( it's well documented
in this forum) should be able to respond without fear .
I'm asking you to speak for yourself, not for God. If all thing are possible with God then
why won't you respond ? Or am I not getting it ? Is this your way of saying \" Yes,other
beliefs may be valid. \" ? Please clarify , the platitudes you hide behind look like unease.
Get used to it RC...like I've stated in your \"Post Your Path\" thread, I've been getting the same sort of dodgy responses for over 20 years. :shakehead2:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTENo one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care!

Good Post! I would be a 'fool' that some may know Christ [/b]

True as that may be in your estimation, (Jesus is the Greek name of the Son of Zeus,) So in your understands I do believe in Him, and His Son... [/b][/b][/quote]
Statements such as these only re-affirm my NONbelief in Christianity.

[R.Carter]

Hey Rev,
Out of curiousity I checked out your profile . That's quite a resume you've got there.
I mentioned before that I was disappointed in your inability to answer my direct
questions ; that goes double now . Flaunting your accomplishments is just more
evidence of your pride . I also believe that the destruction of your credibility in this
forum is your proverbial fall . You should be embarassed by your vague responses,
although I feel confident that you are not . The creation of this forum should have been
an oppurtunity for you to use your considerable knowledge as a tool . Instead ,you have aligned yourself wholly with the denizens who before you have eroded the faith of many.
You are a detriment to your own cause , sadly. It's a shame to see any man fail.

[Universal Mind]

Originally posted by R.Carter
Hey Rev,
Out of curiousity I checked out your profile . That's quite a resume you've got there.
I mentioned before that I was disappointed in your inability to answer my direct
questions ; that goes double now . Flaunting your accomplishments is just more
evidence of your pride . I also believe that the destruction of your credibility in this
forum is your proverbial fall . You should be embarassed by your vague responses,
although I feel confident that you are not . The creation of this forum should have been
an oppurtunity for you to use your considerable knowledge as a tool . Instead ,you have aligned yourself wholly with the denizens who before you have eroded the faith of many.
You are a detriment to your own cause , sadly. It's a shame to see any man fail.

Amen! And AMEN!!!

[Ex Nine]

Oh that was beautiful. See Awaken? That's how life increases its beauty. By tellin' it like it is.

And you're damned ugly.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by R.Carter


You're still avoiding the question,sir. I man with your obvious faith ( it's well documented
in this forum) should be able to respond without fear .
I'm asking you to speak for yourself, not for God. If all thing are possible with God then
why won't you respond ? Or am I not getting it ? Is this your way of saying \" Yes,other
beliefs may be valid. \" ? Please clarify , the platitudes you hide behind look like unease.

Exactly, all other faiths are truly valid in those who believe them, and they have the freedom to believe as they will. But, there is only one 'truth' but many paths to that one truth.

As well you know timing is everything, and when it comes to response, given the questioner or provocateur ‘such as the case may be,’ has a chance to stew in their own assumptions as to the character of the respondent, because of any perceived delay in response, then being demanded to answer only under the questioners conditions, It should be a consideration that the restrains upon the question by nature places a restraint upon the response itself, and it is not an intended avoidance.

The Rev.

[R.Carter]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1


Exactly, all other faiths are truly valid in those who believe them, and they have the freedom to believe as they will. But, there is only one 'truth' but many paths to that one truth.

The Rev.
Well, I guess that's the closest thing to a straight answer that we're going to get,
thanks for trying.

[wasup]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1


Prove to me god does't exist

You can't prove something like that "wrong." That's like saying "prove to me humans can't fly." Is it physically impossible? Yes. Is it against the laws of physics? Yes. But you can apply that same argument to religion. Is it physically impossible? Yes. Is it against the laws of physics? Yes. Well, the physics apply to the whole universe. So therefore, god does not exist.

But you might say "but god can do anything, he doesn't follow the laws of physics." That is why it is "impossible" to prove god doesn't exist. Becuase the only reason the concept of religion survived so long is that it is so ambiguous, it cannot necessarily be proved wrong by logic, because god is not "logical." Bradybaker applies all logic you will ever need to religion, but the counter, "thiest", argument is "god can do anything" (attached to much more "fancy" words).

Secondly, you might say "how do you know the laws of physics apply to the whole universe? Have you been everywhere?" That is silly to say, but it is impossible to truly KNOW that they apply to the whole universe, because since we know virtually relatively nothing about it, there could be some place that defied all logic and physics. But according to universal truth, the physics do, indeed, apply to everything.

It is kind of silly to ask someone to prove religion "wrong." I can make up a new train of thought that humans can fly and that I can fly. Nobody can prove me wrong, because I can say its by magic. "oh, but magic doesn't exist." I can say "prove it." They can't really "prove" something DOESN'T exist, but you can, rather, prove something DOES exist. I can start flying. There, done.

Now think, where do people's inital reasons for adopting a religion occur from? Parental influences and ones from the society and media? Most often (because due to the modern-day rebelliousness religion is fading from the most important thing). Some might see a beautiful landscape and dwell on how complex our minds and the minds of animals in general are, and think that some god MUST have designed such beauty. Lastly, we need to think there is something better. Ultimately the only reason your belief holds is through "faith." It's kind of silly considering the only real "confirmation" about religion is through ancient texts that whoever wrote. I bet if you went back and tested some people who "saw" god, they would be certified with a mental health issue or schizofrenia, etc.

Did I just ramble?

[Awaken4e1]

Eric Estrada"

You can't prove something like that \"wrong.\" That's like saying \"prove to me humans can't fly.\" Is it physically impossible? Yes. Is it against the laws of physics? Yes. But you can apply that same argument to religion. Is it physically impossible? Yes. Is it against the laws of physics? Yes. Well, the physics apply to the whole universe. So therefore, god does not exist. [/b]


How can a Bumble Bee fly?

According to science that to is impossible.

'O' by the way man to can fly, in his dreams, O' try and prove that he is not really flying when he dreams'

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
How can a Bubble Bee fly?

According to science that to is impossible.'
A swing and a miss.

[Awaken4e1]

Is it aerodynamically impossible for bumblebees to fly?

04-May-1990

Dear Cecil:

When I was in college, not so many eons ago, it was pretty much an article of faith among us intellectual iconoclasts that, though we could put a man on the moon, we still had no idea how a bumblebee could fly. Do we? --Keith Hanson, Silver Spring, Maryland

Dear Keith:

Of course. You think this is on a par with quantum mechanics? The basic principles of bumblebee flight, and insect flight generally, have been pretty well understood for many years. Somehow, though, the idea that bees "violate aerodynamic theory" got embedded in folklore.

According to an account at www.iop.org/Physics/News/0012i.1, the story was initially circulated in German technical universities in the 1930s. Supposedly during dinner a biologist asked an aerodynamics expert about insect flight. The aerodynamicist did a few calculations and found that, according to the accepted theory of the day, bumblebees didn't generate enough lift to fly. The biologist, delighted to have a chance to show up those arrogant SOBs in the hard sciences, promptly spread the story far and wide.

Once he sobered up, however, the aerodynamicist surely realized what the problem was--a faulty analogy between bees and conventional fixed-wing aircraft. Bees' wings are small relative to their bodies. If an airplane were built the same way, it'd never get off the ground. But bees aren't like airplanes, they're like helicopters. Their wings work on the same principle as helicopter blades--to be precise, "reverse-pitch semirotary helicopter blades," to quote one authority. A moving airfoil, whether it's a helicopter blade or a bee wing, generates a lot more lift than a stationary one.

The real challenge with bees wasn't figuring out the aerodynamics but the mechanics: specifically, how bees can move their wings so fast--roughly 200 beats per second, which is 10 or 20 times the firing rate of the nervous system. The trick apparently is that the bee's wing muscles (thorax muscles, actually) don't expand and contract so much as vibrate, like a rubber band. A nerve impulse comes along and twangs the muscle, much as you might pluck a guitar string, and it vibrates the wing up and down a few times until the next impulse comes along. Cecil is sliding over a few subtleties here, but nobody ever said science for the masses was pretty.

--CECIL ADAMS

No, I'm sorry It's out of the park, I guess you where buying peanuts at the time I sung...

The point is what logic deems impossible one minute also deems possible the next, so why is that what man believes impossible is so set in stone by those who adhere to its fluctuating revelations, and belief of science?

[Ex Nine]

I think you just beaned yourself.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Ex Nine
I think you just beaned yourself.

Read on before you state you belly button...

[bradybaker]

First of all, there's a difference between not knowing the answer and an 'impossibility'.

It is the lack of that distinction that leads to theism.

Secondly, the 'fact' that bumble bees can't fly is a complete myth, propagated by the media and general public because they don't know any better.

http://www.math.niu.edu/~rusin/known-math/98/bees

Other myths:
That toilets swirl in the opposite direction below the equator.
That no two snowflaxes are alike.
That the moon is magnified by the atmosphere when it is close to the horizon.

[OpheliaBlue]

Originally posted by bradybaker
Other myths:
That toilets swirl in the opposite direction below the equator.
That no two snowflaxes are alike.
That the moon is magnified by the atmosphere when it is close to the horizon.
is that an example of "not impossible, but infinitely improbable"?

like there 'could' be 2 that were alike if you compared like, 100 google of them

[bradybaker]

Actually identical snowflakes have been observed on a number of occasions. It turns out there are a limited number of patterns that can be formed.

[Rakkantekimusouka]

Hmmm...could a finite number of possible snowflake patterns hint at a finite universe?

[Awaken4e1]

The point is that science states all of its beliefs as ‘fact’ with no room for deposing opinions? Such as is the conjectured fact (oxy-moron), in all of their arguments pertaining to the existents of God? When as you have stated ‘there are things which are unknown to science.’

So if there are inconsistencies between fact, and belief in these in commonly agreed upon theories, how can those of apposing views be convinced of the theoretical beliefs of science when those theories are based on beliefs and not on facts?

The Rev.

[Ex Nine]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
The point is that science states all of its beliefs as ‘fact’ with no room for deposing opinions?

What? You don't understand science at all. Everything in science is open to being deposed.

Unlike your God. But then that doesn't prevent it from being deposed in the minds of responsible people either.

[Mark75]

Originally posted by Rakkantekimusouka
Hmmm...could a finite number of possible snowflake patterns hint at a finite universe?

I don't think that anyone said there was a finite nuber of possible snowflake patterns, only that sometimes there are more than one that are identical. I'd say that if we were to draw any conclusions about the universe from this, it's that if from an infinite number of snowflakes one can find two that are the same, then in an infinite universe one could find another planet like our own.

Just some food for thought... which reminds me... I'm hungry.

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
The point is what logic deems impossible one minute also deems possible the next, so why is that what man believes impossible is so set in stone by those who adhere to its fluctuating revelations, and belief of science?
No, the point is that the aerodynamicist was a friggin' doushebag and needed to be a little more professional before spreading a story like that.

Science doesn't make belief statements. Beliefs are a moronic thing to have. Science uses empirical observation to draw logical conclusions. Many scientists have ideas, some have opinions, but to start forming 'beliefs' around incompletely or inconclusive observations is generally the domain of the popular media.

[Awaken4e1]

In the contemplation of multiple dimensions, within this Superverse there are possibilities of dimensional shifts within parallel dimensions i.e. realms of existence through faith and the use ‘oscillating strings’ transcending in and out of this respective reality.

Such as the appearance of Moses and Elijah with Jesus on the ‘Mount of transfiguration’ as the exercise of the power of faith of the Holy Spirit in Jesus, this is also given unto His sons. This is the ‘key’ to bringing the manifestation of the God’s Kingdom to this realm through faith.

These are the abilities which are freely given to those whom are the called according to His purpose. This, by no means, excludes anyone whom may come.

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, and James, and John his brother, and doth bring them up to a high mount by themselves,
Mat 17:2 and he was transfigured before them, and his face shone as the sun, and his garments did become white as the light,
Mat 17:3 and lo, appear to them did Moses and Elijah, talking together with him.

P.S. Please note that there are those who apply scientific theory into their applications of faith. This is so blatantly disputed by those of science.

The Rev.

[spoon]

Originally posted by awaken
Exactly, all other faiths are truly valid in those who believe them, and they have the freedom to believe as they will. But, there is only one 'truth' but many paths to that one truth. If all other faiths are truly valid, does believing in christianity mean anything? Will a devout hindu, moslem, or a militant atheist get into heaven just as much as a christian? If that is the case, why be a christian? Why not just be a faith (or lack of faith) that isn't as restrictive, doesn't have as many rules, and doesn't generally get you to discard logical thinking. It's all the same afterall.

The point is that science states all of its beliefs as ‘fact’ with no room for deposing opinions? Such as is the conjectured fact (oxy-moron), in all of their arguments pertaining to the existents of God? When as you have stated ‘there are things which are unknown to science.’[/b]Actually this is not how science works. A process of science would start off with an observation. \"Bumble bees fly\" for example. This is a fact. The theory on how bumble bees fly is a belief. Yet when the theory gets backed up by all sorts of external evidence, and makes repeatable, correct observations it does get labelled as fact. This does not make it immutable, however, as it can stop making correct observations or external evidence can start to falsify it. In that case, it will be modified (sometimes a lot, sometimes a little).

Take gravity for example, the theory of gravity comes from the fact that there is this force drawing objects together. Newton came up with a pretty good model, it was a fact for a long time. Then it was discovered it didn't hold under certain conditions, so Einstein came up with general/specialised relativity.

Repeatable, testable, observations in science are labelled as fact. We see bumble bees fly every day, this is a fact. Theories on how these observations happen can be labelled as fact, when it is highly supported by experential evidence and has been thoroughly tested. Theories can be changed, and facts can be falsified.

So if there are inconsistencies between fact, and belief in these in commonly agreed upon theories, how can those of apposing views be convinced of the theoretical beliefs of science when those theories are based on beliefs and not on facts?[/b] You say that science states that all of its beliefs are "fact", and imply that this is a bad thing. Yet the facts of science are not blindly labelled facts, they are determined through rigourous testing and experential evidence. The facts of religion, on the other hand, are just facts because you believe. The facts of science are mutable, they change as the evidence supporting them does. The facts of religion are highly resistant to change.

You state that "there is only one 'truth'. How do you know this if, as you have said "there are inconsistencies between fact, and belief in these commonly agreed upon therories". Would it not hold if science is so unreliable that religion would be even more unreliable? How can you be convinced that your truth is the truth, why not a truth of the myriad of other religions.

It really annoys me when religious people bring up all of these reasons not to blindly accept the "facts" of science, yet fail to apply this same critical thinking to their religious "facts" (which have less backing than science).

-spoon

[Awaken4e1]

"spoon"

It really annoys me when religious people bring up all of these reasons not to blindly accept the \"facts\" of science, yet fail to apply this same critical thinking to their religious \"facts\" (which have less backing than science).
[/b]

-spoon

Yes, But one of them I am not, I test them by the Spirit to see if they are Truly True...

[Mark75]

This is all that I got from that:

Originally posted by Awaken4e1+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Awaken4e1)</div> Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah! Blah, blah blah blah. Blah thou blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah God blah blah? Blah blah blah blah.Blah blah blah God blah. Blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah! Blah, blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah Jesus blah blah? Blah blah blah blah.Blah bible jargon blah blah blah. Blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah! Blah, blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah? Blah blah blah blah.Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah! Blah, blah blah. Blah blah blah garbage can blah blah sandwich blah. Blah blah blah blah blah? Blah blah blah blah.Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah! Blah, blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah cardboard blah blah. Blah Singapore blah blah blah? Blah blah Microsoft blah.Blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah! Blah, blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah gas too expensive blah blah blah? Blah blah blah blah.

The Rev.[/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-Awaken4e1

Yes, But one of them I am not, I test them to see if they are Truly True...
As opposed to falsely true?

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Mark75
This is all that I got from that:


As opposed to falsely true?

Non-Sequitur -

As the definition states – An inference that does not follow as the logical results of what has preceded it. As have are all other of your posts to me 'they have not followed the preceded topic I have stated. They have not kept a consistent train of thought throughout. You just bringing the same tired inference into every thread I state. And you will continue to until you get what you want.
Good Luck with that!

P.S. Words mean things, try it you'll like it...

The Rev.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Ex Nine


What? You don't understand science at all. Everything in science is open to being deposed.

Unlike your God. But then that doesn't prevent it from being deposed in the minds of responsible people either.

Not according to those who believe themselves right by science, and all others wrong by faith.

[Ex Nine]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
Not according to those who believe themselves right by science, and all others wrong by faith.

Nobody "believes" themselves right by science. There is only an acceptance of what is demonstrably true.

You appear to be criticizing people who think like you.

[Awaken4e1]

"Ex Nine"

Nobody believes themselves right by science. There is only an acceptance of what is demonstrably true.[/b]

Scientist do

You appear to be criticizing people who think like you.[/b]
No only those who assume they think like me...

[Ex Nine]

No they don't. Do I have to keep repeating myself?

They stake their entire profession on the possibility that everything they do could be rendered useless. That's why they're so careful.

[spoon]

Yes, But one of them I am not, I test them by the Spirit to see if they are Truly True... [/b] So in other words, you test faiths through your preconcieved notion of faith to see if it is correct? Yeah... that is a lot more rational than science.

You know, I normally don't mind when you just ignore the entirety of someone's post except for one part (which usually wasn't even a question), but it's really frustrating when you go and post things like this:

Not according to those who believe themselves right by science, and all others wrong by faith. [/b] My post said the same thing as Ex nine: \"Nobody \"believes\" themselves right by science. There is only an acceptance of what is demonstrably true.\"

How about responding to the question part of my post:

You state that \"there is only one 'truth'. How do you know this if, as you have said \"there are inconsistencies between fact, and belief in these commonly agreed upon therories\". Would it not hold if science is so unreliable that religion would be even more unreliable? How can you be convinced that your truth is the truth, why not a truth of the myriad of other religions. [/b] Just a hint. You can't test the validity of a faith by using the faith itself. For example, you can't say \"the holy spirit told me the holy spirit is true\". And while you're at it

If all other faiths are truly valid, does believing in christianity mean anything? Will a devout hindu, moslem, or a militant atheist get into heaven just as much as a christian? If that is the case, why be a christian? Why not just be a faith (or lack of faith) that isn't as restrictive, doesn't have as many rules, and doesn't generally get you to discard logical thinking. It's all the same afterall. [/b] I'd be interested in an answer to that as well.

-spoon

(I'm guessing you respond to the most pointless part of this post)

[Awaken4e1]

"spoon"

If all other faiths are truly valid, does believing in Christianity mean anything? Will a devout Hindu, Moslem, or a militant atheist get into heaven just as much as a Christian? If that is the case, why is a Christian? Why not just be a faith (or lack of faith) that isn't as restrictive, doesn't have as many rules, and doesn't generally get you to discard logical thinking. It's all the same after all. [/b]

The problem with those who do not adhere to faith, is that all faith-based belief systems have a degree of truth in them, and it is that ‘truth’ which stands before God incorruptible. Weather they call God Allah, Buddha, Krishna,

This does not make it immutable, however, as it can stop making correct observations or external evidence can start to falsify it. In that case, it will be modified (sometimes a lot, sometimes a little).
[/b]

I would only state that those who rigidly pertain to science as ‘fact’ and do not leave more for amendment are those who make themselves the superior elitist of humanity.

The Rev.

[Mark75]

I sincerely doubt you’re going to really read this, but here goes nothing.

Originally posted by Awaken4e1+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Awaken4e1)</div>
The problem with those who do not adhere to faith, is that all faith-based belief systems have a degree of truth in them, and it is that ‘truth’ which stands before God incorruptible. Weather they call God Allah, Buddha, Krishna,
[/b]

You make the bold statement that there is some inherent ‘truth’ found in religions, yet fail to back this up, or even mention what this ‘truth' is. It’s ironic that you’d answer in a way that creates only more questions. You have to stop and ask yourself if you’re really answering anything at all.

Originally posted by Awaken4e1@


Non-Sequitur -

As the definition states – An inference that does not follow as the logical results of what has preceded it. As have are all other of your posts to me 'they have not followed the preceded topic I have stated. They have not kept a consistent train of thought throughout. You just bringing the same tired inference into every thread I state. And you will continue to until you get what you want.
Good Luck with that!

The Rev.
Did you read the definition you just pasted into that post (as well as many others)? If so, did you THINK about it? I'm guessing not.

You said some irrelevant and generally meaningless thing about multiple dimensions, then started ranting about some religious jargon.

So I decided (the Gods only know why...) I would point out said meaninglessness.

Where, exactly, is this supposed non-sequitur? Unless you are admitting to the non-sequitur of your own post. From what I can tell, this is the only logical (there’s that word again!) answer.

<!--QuoteBegin-Ex Nine
Do I have to keep repeating myself?
Nope, there's lots of other threads out there. But when you talk to this guy, that's exactly what you're going to end up doing.

[spoon]

The problem with those who do not adhere to faith, is that all faith-based belief systems have a degree of truth in them, and it is that ‘truth’ which stands before God incorruptible. Weather they call God Allah, Buddha, Krishna,[/b] So in other words, there's no reason to believe in such a restrictive religion as christianity? When I have a kid I'll just raise him as strict pastafarian*, he'll believe, which will make his faith valid , which means he goes to the christian heaven. But he won't have any dumb rules. Score.

I'm actually quite confused here, isn't the christian religion a monotheistic religion? Aren't all other faiths inherently wrong from within a monotheistic religion. Why do christians seem to care if people believe in god or not, if it makes no difference one way or the other. And if it makes no difference, why do christians always tell me (yourself included) that if I don't believe I'll burn in hell.

*(Pastafarianism = the belief in the flying spaghetti monster)

I would only state that those who rigidly pertain to science as ‘fact’ and do not leave more for amendment are those who make themselves the superior elitist of humanity. [/b] So are you making yourself "the syperior elitist of humanity" but rigidly pertaining to your religion as "fact"? How is what you are doing better than the people who hold science as fact?

And for the record, only your caricature version of scientists "rigidly pertain to science as 'fact'". In the real world scientists are quite open to new evidence that falsifys their theories. That doesn't mean they can't hold a very accepted theory (like gravity or evolution) as fact in the meantime. Congratulations, you created a caricature of scientists that arent rational. Bad make-believe-scientists, you should know better!

-spoon

[Awaken4e1]

"spoon"

I'm actually quite confused here, isn't the Christian religion a monotheistic religion?
[/b]

Yes, but all mankind believes in the one true God, but He is called by different names in different languages.

Aren't all other faiths inherently wrong from within a monotheistic religion.[/b]

No, only faith pleases God not belief.

Why do Christians seem to care if people believe in god or not, if it makes no difference one way or the other. [/b]

Because there is only one mediator between God, and man, the man Christ Jesus.

And if it makes no difference, why do Christians always tell me (yourself included) that if I don't believe I'll burn in hell. [/b]

I have never stated that only your assumptions have.

And for the record, only your caricature versions of scientists “rigidly pertain to science as 'fact'\". In the real world scientists are quite open to new evidence that falsifies their theories.[/b]

I am only stating those who base their beliefs on those who are not teachable

Congratulations, you created a caricature of scientists that aren’t rational. [/b]

No, only you understand of what I have stated has created that image in your mind.

The Rev.

[Awaken4e1]

"Mark75"

I sincerely doubt you’re going to really read this, but here goes nothing.[/b]

Nope, there's lots of other threads out there. But when you talk to this guy, that's exactly what you're going to end up doing.[/b]



And by the way, next time you go to hit the 'submit' button, consider the fact that no one cares what you have to say because you are a moron.[/b]

Ah! The last resort of the truly inept, the lack of a substantive response, always requires a personal insult.



The Rev.
:goodjob:

[spoon]

Yes, but all mankind believes in the one true God, but He is called by different names in different languages. [/b]This is incredibly conceited. Are you seriously saying that everyone believes in your god, they just don't know it? It doesn't even make sense. Every god has a different prophet, a different holy book, a different definition, different powers, different creation story, different mode of salvation, different idea of heaven/hell. You cannot seriously say that every god is your god.

No, only faith pleases God not belief. [/b] Hey, I'd rebut this but you did it in the next line:

Because there is only one mediator between God, and man, the man Christ Jesus.[/b]So which is it? Only faith (any faith) pleases god, or belief in jesus pleases god.

So it comes back down to the question: what makes your faith "the truth" and all other faiths wrong?

[Awaken4e1]

http://www.textkit.com/0_0970227817.html

[Ex Nine]

So what do you think of what I said, Awaken?

Preachers don't exactly stake their profession on the possibilty that their work could be rendered entirely useless, now do they?

Quite the opposite what what scientists do! Very conceited.

[wasup]

You never really responded to my post awaken. Also, when you say scientists apply science to their faith, it is impossible to "test" religion contrary to your belief. Religion is a concept which, as said before, is ambiguous which causes it to be impossible to "prove" it wrong. There is a very LARGE amount of evidence contrary to religious theories, but in the viewpoint of a thiest, he or she might suppose it impossible to definetly prove it wrong. Scientists cannot test and observe religion in a way of "applying science to faith." They simply might theorize why it could be probable.

Despite all of the evidence we gave supporting our viewpoint, you probably will always be thiest. A thiest, in response, might say "you won't ever open your mind up to god," etc. etc. Once you provide some legitimate evidence supporting the presence of a god, I will believe in God. And you can't use that argument against us, because we provided legimate evidence against god (not proving god as unexisting, yet proving him as relatively improbable in the realms of logic).

[Awaken4e1]

Unlike most Christian’s science is not a threat to my faith, but a substantiating reinforcing component of it. Science is the conformation of all that God has made, within the confines of man’s understanding of it. Science can only compliment God’s works, for he can do nothing to defame it.

[Ex Nine]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
Unlike most Christian’s science is not a threat to my faith, but a substantiating reinforcing component of it. Science is the conformation of all that God has made, within the confines of man’s understanding of it. Science can only compliment God’s works, for he can do nothing to defame it.

But your faith is a threat to science. And to humanity. At least, according to Einstein.

"To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with the natural events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot. But I am persuaded that such behaviour on the part of the representatives of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal. For a doctrine which is able to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress." -- Albert Einstein

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Ex Nine


But your faith is a threat to science. And to humanity. At least, according to Einstein.

\"To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with the natural events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot. But I am persuaded that such behaviour on the part of the representatives of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal. For a doctrine which is able to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress.\" -- Albert Einstein

But the elusive pupose of God in the relationship to man is to bring a thorn into man's convenant view of his life.

Mat 10:34 `Ye may not suppose that I came to put peace on the earth; I did not come to put peace, but a sword;

[Ex Nine]

So if someone stuck a sword in your face, that would be in line with your beliefs, then.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Ex Nine
So if someone stuck a sword in your face, that would be in line with your beliefs, then.

Those who constrain the word of God without knowing it, are as a man anticipating a change of scenery on a marry-go-round.

Kind’ a dumb huh?

[Universal Mind]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1

Yes, but all mankind believes in the one true God, but He is called by different names in different languages.



Is there just no limit to what you will pull out of your ass? Have you ever heard of polytheism? It is a belief in more than one god.

[Barbizzle]

Why do you persist to believe in God? Does it make any sense to you? I think anyone who has such a faith in God's existence is somehow mentally insane. Its a crazy idea they has science to disprove most of it. God is an old archaic custom that sadly still lingers around today. It is counter productive to the human race because it is just so silly and give power to other people, not to yourself. Humans are the most superior beings in the universe, yet some of us are so stupid to have a crazed belief in a supernatural deity that has power over us... :(

[InTheMoment]

*(Pastafarianism = the belief in the flying spaghetti monster) [/b]
Brilliant! ;)~

[Kaimelar]

Originally posted by kimpossible
Now here I specifically remember having mocked your god. In order not to get that, he must be as deluded as his followers. Deaf, Dumb, Blind and STOOOPID. That's a heck of a being you've associated yourself with!

Further proof that god doesn't exist: It's tough to believe an infinitely powerful being would need such a bunch of pathetic losers running around threatening people for him. You'd think he could get better help. I know *I* go out of my way to surround myself with winners.

I felt pitty when I read this. Anybody else share the feeling?

[kimpossible]

I used to feel pity for the poor deluded theists. Until they got under foot one too many times. No I just find them to be a mild annoyance. Let 'em be until they get underfoot, then squish them.

[Gwendolyn]

Originally posted by InTheMoment
*(Pastafarianism = the belief in the flying spaghetti monster)
Brilliant! ;)~[/b]

Me= Pastafarian

He created all you see and feel!
:P
http://www.venganza.org/images/wallpapers/noodledoodle1024_768.jpg

[Universal Mind]

Originally posted by Gwendolyn


Me= Pastafarian

He created all you see and feel!
:P


Well, you tell him that if he tries to torture me forever for not believing in him, he is going to get eaten! :-P

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Kaimelar


I felt pitty when I read this. Anybody else share the feeling?

Forgive them Father, for they know Not what they do...

[OpheliaBlue]

:shock:

christ that's gonna give me nightmares

[Universal Mind]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1


Forgive them Father, for they know Not what they do...

Then how about giving us a satisfactorily logical explanation of it, for once, Jesus? (That was a Jesus quote Awaken left. How grandiose is that?)

[R.Carter]

Originally posted by OpheliaBlue
:shock:

christ that's gonna give me nightmares

Me too. :shock: :shock:

[Nirvana Starseed]

Here we observe a typical exchange between the religiously polarized and the society polarized, who do not accept the typical religion in any way as presented a "religion", And the baby is thrown out with the bathwater. The knowledge and wisdom of this polarization is thus ignored.

but they which follow along the lines of general consiousness of beliefs in that society which are not considered a Religion.but is still part of a similar thing, eg see my thread about this to understand what I am saying here.

Overall a pointless exchange competing for emotional energy on either side. To achieve some sort of Righteous position of truth. By rejecting the other polarization outright. When infact both on either side are missing the point by fighting against each other, instead of working together to see the truth of the matter.

[dreamtamer007]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1


Forgive them Father, for they know Not what they do...
Also the scripture says, "Cast not your pears before swine for it will be treaded under foot" That word keeps coming to me and I will heed to it. There has been Enoch name-calling and god having the last word has called them swine.

[Nirvana Starseed]

\"Cast not your pearls before swine for it will be treaded under foot\"[/b]

Yes. That's part of the reason I no longer pay attention to Kim (numbass) and mark (bonehead) which will become his name if he keeps it up.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by dreamtamer007

Also the scripture says, \"Cast not your pears before swine for it will be treaded under foot\" That word keeps coming to me and I will heed to it. There has been Enoch name-calling and god having the last word has called them swine.

Ahhh, come on, the pigs love to eat pears, though! They're so much more tasty than pearls.

"treaded" [sic] under foot? Does that mean it has been "souled" ? [cackle]

[wasup]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
Unlike most Christian’s science is not a threat to my faith, but a substantiating reinforcing component of it. Science is the conformation of all that God has made, within the confines of man’s understanding of it. Science can only compliment God’s works, for he can do nothing to defame it.

That doesn't really support your "argument" at all... how does science reinforce your religion? All of god's "works" are denied by science.

[dreamtamer007]

The Light went threw the darkness and the darkness comprehended it not.

[Universal Mind]

Originally posted by dreamtamer007
The Light went threw the darkness and the darkness comprehended it not.

The armadillo walked into the highway, and the highway claimed to have been thoughtless.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Eric Estrada


That doesn't really support your \"argument\" at all... how does science reinforce your religion? All of god's \"works\" are denied by science.

No I must differ, They magnify God's work's by revealing them,but they can't wrap their brains around them...as being from God though they are...

[kafine]

I don't believe that anything is achieved by dropping to one's knees, god or no god. Getting on with living well is what's important no matter what your faith is.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Eric Estrada


That doesn't really support your \"argument\" at all... how does science reinforce your religion? *All of god's \"works\" are denied by science.

Show me anything that science has discovered that did not originate of God?

[Ynot]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1


Show me anything that science has discovered that did not originate of God?

Homosexuality
Other religions' Gods
Birth control
The act of suicide

All are denounced by Christians as being sinful, and therefore are not created by God (but I'm willing to be proved wrong)

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Ynot


Homosexuality
Other religions' Gods
Birth control
The act of suicide

All are denounced by Christians as being sinful, and therefore are not created by God (but I'm willing to be proved wrong)

These are produced through deviant behavioral functions of Man, which God created under the subjection of vanity.

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
These are produced through deviant behavioral functions of Man, which God created under the subjection of vanity.
So man is responsible for the homosexuality observed in other animals as well?

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by bradybaker

So man is responsible for the homosexuality observed in other animals as well?

Sin came into the world through Man, whom was created by God...

[Ex Nine]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
Sin came into the world through Man, whom was created by God...

So man is responsible for the homosexuality observed in other animals as well?

[bradybaker]

Have you ever considered the incredible convenience of all religious arguments?

Anything bad = man's fault, we're a bunch of dirty sinners.

Anything good = beauty of God's creation

Any attack on religion with logical means = it's not something you can analyze, you have to just believe

Any attack on religion with scientific means = science is evil, it can't tell you everything OR God just created things like that to test our faith

Any questioning of the Bible as truth = you have to believe it to know it's true

Any logical contradiction in the Bible = you aren't interpreting it right, you have to believe it

Any 'fact' in the Bible = no need to interpret it, its a fact, plain as day

Conclusion: The theory of God is 100% unfalsifiable. Therefore, completely useless. It is equally as justified as the theory of the invisible pink unicorn.

So, since it's obvious that the theory of God cannot be logically defeated, let's look at the world around us for some hints as to the nature of reality....

Let's see...hmm....all reliable, empirical observation and study of the world (though not complete) does not require the introduction of supernatural forces to explain events.

It's as if you have a safe, and inside that safe are all the secrets of the universe, this one safe is perfectly capable of holding what's inside...but because you're a paranoid bastard, you decide to lock it inside another safe...it's completely unecessary, but you do it anyways to make yourself feel better.

That's what religion is. The second safe.

[Ex Nine]

Right.

It's all your fault, Awaken, you dirty sinful man. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Awaken4e1]

The problem is man still sees things as being either 'bad' or 'good' when God does not, and this is a major problem when understanding God's works. God has set man as the ruler of this world, and it is he who is responsible for its condition, weather it be bad or good.

The Rev.

[Ex Nine]

Are including yourself when you say "man?"

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Ex Nine
Are including yourself when you say \"man?\"

We are all responsible for our own resulting behavior, yes me too.

[Ex Nine]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
The problem is man still sees things as being either 'bad' or 'good' when God does not,

So do you see things as being either good or bad?

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Ex Nine


So do you see things as being either good or bad?

No

[Ex Nine]

Then you didn't include yourself in "man," in that statement.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Ex Nine
Then you didn't include yourself in \"man,\" in that statement.

No, not in that particular statement I do not believe in good or bad...

[Ex Nine]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
No, not in that particular statement I do not believe in good or bad...

And yet you said the rest of the species did, setting yourself apart from man.

How that is not holier than thou?

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Ex Nine


And yet you said the rest of the species did, setting yourself apart from man.

How that is not holier than thou?

I am not the only one, there are millions of Us. The Sons of God!

[Ex Nine]

So there are millions of people who act "holier than thou?"

Awaken, every single person on earth could act holier than thou and it wouldn't change the fact that they are acting holier than thou.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Ex Nine
So there are millions of people who act \"holier than thou?\"

Awaken, every single person on earth could act holier than thou and it wouldn't change the fact that they are acting holier than thou.

I have never disassociated myself from any of my observation, unless it is an act that is not truthful, of which there are many who follow after those given practices, but I am not one of them.

[Ex Nine]

Maybe not intentionally.

[ptahsokar]

A4E, I'm really not looking to pee on your parade here, but you've got to change the title of your board. No matter what it says in Galations, the first time God's balls were mentioned here proved the illogic, or rather the logic value of FALSE, in your title assertion.

Perhaps something true to the original scripture like: God will not be mocked.

My fav is: "And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying: Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness;"

Just a heads up: us occultists can be real subtle SOB's so you'd better check to see if that one is actually in the Bible before quoting it yourself.

BTW, a little encouragement for you:

Job 12:4 I am as one mocked of his neighbour, who calleth upon God, and he answereth him: the just upright man is laughed to scorn.

Take comfort in this but don't let it get to your head, ok.

[Awaken4e1]

Point taken4e1!

[spirits_awakened]

Does anyone here think God is real?

[ptahsokar]

Originally posted by spirits_awakened
Does anyone here think God is real?

SA, I was an athiest for the first 21 years of my life. Why? Unlike some who seem to be born with it (lucky bastards) I was not in possetion of the knowledge of the existance of God.

However, when I was 21, a read a certain book of scripture and at that time, the Spirit of Truth bore witness to me that what I was reading was the Truth. This was amazing to me and even though, at first ,it was small within me, that it was there a moment after where there was nothing. This was wonderous to me!

I became a member of the Mormons, that mightiest of orthodox Churches, and immediately went on a mission to Alaska where I served "honorably" for 2 years.

After quite a number of years with the Mormons, I finally learned what there was to know there and I still thirsted to be filled with the Waters of Life, or to know more about God. I am now aligned with the Keysters http://groups.yahoo.com/group/keysters and am continuing my spiritual education there.

I highly recommend the faithful to go there, those that already know what is commonly taught in the Churches, and go to JJ Dewey and learn of the mysteries (ie. Theosophy, Esoteric Philosophy, Occult Science, Hermetics, Kabballa, Gnosticism, Egyptian and Chaldean magick systems).

SA, I don't just think he is real. I KNOW He is real.

The first step was hypothesising that he was real, next I did the necessary thinking that he was real (ie. mental study and contemplation of scripture), and when the Spirit told me, I beleived that he was real (ie. a small level of knowing) and by "doing the highest that I know", over process of time, that beleif has been exchanged for a sure knowledge of His existance on a subjective, individual level.

And even this is just the start, scratching the surface of what may be known of Him.

[Awaken4e1]

Very, Very, nice witness! GBU!

Check out the link under my sig...

[wombing]

Originally posted by Lucius
I was just browsing about abit..just wanted to say something:

If God, concretely, does exist like christians say for example, I know he is all-loving and enlightned, he would have to be, as he's god. An all loving and enlightned god would not be hurt, not even touched by any curses or mockery thrown his way. Be loving like he is, and it's alright. A true god is above mockery and such *;) *

An enlightned god is (entirely) selfless, not selfish. Therefor he did not create earth for his own pleasure, or for him to be worshipped or even respected. He created it, so humans have a chance to experience something beautiful (Even though we mess up hehe), he did it for us. Not for himself. Ask yourself when you do something, think about the motivation. Do you do 'good deeds' because you want to aquire respect, fame, followers? OR because you want to actually do something for others? *
Therefor I believe that God will not judge by whether or not you believe in him, or make jokes about him (fact I believe he doesnt judge at all but thats besides the point), God is not close minded, he looks at the bigger picture and what he is really trying to do. He wants to see people happy, smiling and in peace, and as long as you don't mess this planet up to badly, he'll welcome you with open arms *:) Thats what I think.

A truly loving god's priority is his/her children's happiness, not their own satisfaction.

Now I don't know if I totally went beyond this topic, but I never post down here but I just felt like saying this because I'm sure many people will agree with me. Nobody is going to be judged like that. God, is love. *;) And you are your own judge. *

Just my humble opinion ^_~ Oh and by all means I do respect all people that do believe in the classic meaning of 'God' the father/creator..whatever makes people happy and comfortable. Religion can be beautiful

this is most well-written post i've seen in this forum. i couldn't agree more...

religious and spiritual symbolism is a valid and meaningful way to filter reality, as long as it doesn't become exclusive. just as science is a valid and meaningful way to filter reality, as long as it doesn't become exclusive.

[wasup]

Has anyone ever noticed how theists claim enlightenment by their spiritual connection with god/knowledge of god, etc. etc., but wondered... maybe athiests are the enlightened ones for rejecting silly notions of a god...

[Barbizzle]

maybe athiests are the enlightened ones for rejecting silly notions of a god... [/b]

That is soooo correct.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Eric Estrada
Has anyone ever noticed how theists claim enlightenment by their spiritual connection with god/knowledge of god, etc. etc., but wondered... maybe athiests are the enlightened ones for rejecting silly notions of a god...

Yea, or even sillier notion that man is the be all, end all of intellect in the world.
Or even sillier than that, that man is the origin of all knowledge.
Not hardly...


The Rev.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1


Yea, or even sillier notion that man is the be all, end all of intellect in the world.


Don't worry - they're obviously not referring to you. Unless they are demonstrating negative number theory.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by kimpossible


Don't worry - they're obviously not referring to you. *Unless they are demonstrating negative number theory.

Merry Christmas to you too!...(K)impossible

[kimpossible]

I'm uninterested in acknowledging your hijacked Pagan holy days. ("Yule" came about that time waaaaay before your christ... Just another example of christianity hijacking pagan holidays to convert the ignorant rabble more easily.)

[DREAM_WEAVER]

I think it would be pretty hard to make up a BIRTHDAY. Its like you telling me i wasnt born on may 14th, I would say take your own advice and dont tell me about somthing you dont know. :D

[Mark75]

Originally posted by DREAM_WEAVER
I think it would be pretty hard to make up a BIRTHDAY. *Its like you telling me i wasnt born on may 14th, I would say take your own advice and dont tell me about somthing you dont know. :D

You dug up this thread for that? Oh well, since it's here...
Jesus was born on Dec. 14, 1986. Oops, I just disproved that notion!

EDIT

You may also be interested to know that about half of the people who responded to this topic have since been banned, so I don't know how lively of a debate you'll get.

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by DREAM_WEAVER
I think it would be pretty hard to make up a BIRTHDAY. *Its like you telling me i wasnt born on may 14th, I would say take your own advice and dont tell me about somthing you dont know. :D
First of all, there is no solid evidence that Jesus ever existed.

Secondly, if he did exist, best estimates are that he was born sometime in the Spring.