A written abstract journal [Archive] - Dreamviews lucid dreaming forums

Howie

02-12-2006, 04:13 AM

The Idea>
To relax and meditate until you have random thoughts in your head. No noises no interruptions I am not going to focus on any particular thought. I will not think about what I am thinking. Just write!
The draw backs are that I cannot type well and I have to keep my eyes open to do so. What I did when I reached the state of consciousness I was after was to just give a blank stare at the monitor and let the thoughts flow.
The outcome>
Hopefully upon looking back at what I wrote I may be able to extract some useful information much like you would from hypnagogic imagery.
I do not remember what I wrote except Rodney, my neighbor and well actually i don't know.

5:50 AM [It took little time to get hypnopompic thoughts. Since it is so early I am close to sleep now.] Yesterday was probably not the best environment. Although I was lacking sleep it took too long to get into a hynagogia state.

Start to wonder when that does happen why it is acircadian clock or who knows so many variables to everything. Yet the world Sometimes i wonder if these changes will occur soon or if it is a bigjoke to osme a person may beleive byt a struggle for whatahhit, hwat is that word. putting in to perspctive everything woulf be the key to jimmy what is his last name ans he snowboards what a life hehas the Doctor house is not a brit no way he can [time is up]

This is my second attempt. Yesterdays was lost somehow. But I have already learned to tweak a few things.
I put the limit up to five minutes rather than the initial three minutes

You can modify anyway you wish, write as long as you want etc.
Let me know if anything comes out of your try.

Outcome. Funny thing is I did not even mention my neighbor as I thought. The rest is a bunch of random BS. I think I was referring to my neighbors selling the house.
Certainly no epiphanies. :P
Maybe next time.

Howie

02-20-2006, 09:19 AM

woke up grabbed my hat made the businsecindsflatawwwwawwww mm.jshooey, iwonder if shewould know the diferance eitherway. sithe the cat and the dog will never get along and

times up. I think I notted off a bit. ? :yawn:

dudesuperior

02-21-2006, 03:33 PM

Ok then, so i just clear my mind and see where my thoughts go, right?

So it beggins....(time limit 5 mins)

cogs that are plastic never wander... jelly mingles with haddock that finds it hard to be true... serimonious tree cutting is not right and mechanical bests roam far from the metropolis...denver has the largest population of minks but canada has many moose...

...and time is up. Ok that is random. The dots I put in to represent that I was having no thoughts, if that is possible :? Most of the sentences I came after images hat were simular to them. I might try this again - I find it this very interesting.

Oh and yes, doctor House (Hugh Laurie) is a brit. Here he is in a screenshot from 'Jeeves and Wooster' :mrgreen: http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/3237/jeeveswooster5gp.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Howie

02-21-2006, 03:46 PM

That is great dudesuperior. What a good idea about using dots. I too had intervals of space. That will work good.
Did you get anything from that?

I have not that I can see in mine.

dudesuperior

02-21-2006, 04:14 PM

Hmmm... I got nothing from what I thought. Just totallty random, although I have recnety started to eat jelly on a regular basis.

Wait a sec, the bit where i said 'serimonious tree cutting is not right and mechanical bests roam far from the metropolis' could be a reflection of my views on the state of rainforest conservation/preservation - the 'mechanical beasts' represtenting the machines used to cut the trees down. The rainforests are often miles away from largecities (the 'metropolis').... just a thought

Howie

02-21-2006, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by dudesuperior
Hmmm... I got nothing from what I thought. Just totallty random, although I have recnety started to eat jelly on a regular basis.

Wait a sec, the bit where i said 'serimonious tree cutting is not right and mechanical bests roam far from the metropolis' could be a reflection of my views on the state of rainforest conservation/preservation - the 'mechanical beasts' represtenting the machines used to cut the trees down. The rainforests are often miles away from largecities (the 'metropolis').... just a thought
That is exactly what I am posing to accomplish here.:!:
Just has you would with HI. Abstract thoughts. Then put this randomness to the test with the left hemispheres, technical approach of problem solving, could give light to different aspects to things.

Keep um coming!
Anyone & everyone is welcome to try. :D

Howie

02-22-2006, 09:10 AM

a wriiten color in my mid and to do we have i=t to confine the actual basis is beyond me and it makes or do imake itto difficult to achieve anythinfg desired ....vex and the cat i was there at the pojt I feel like .....lost what i was saying. to go from one thought to another are does it matter if you have two hemisheore working together and it would....

Times up! Damn it. I was zoning.

I suggest if you reach a long pause or brake in your thoughts you stop. That whether it be two minutes or something within reason. No time limit. (again within reason )

dudesuperior

02-24-2006, 12:50 PM

cheerios go soggy when they are added to milk...jacques cousteau was one of the great leaders of the hunt of the loch ness monster yet the black yellow cat does not use a zimmer frame...melon heads fall down the crevasse to the point of no return...

my mind was blank for ages so I stopped. I've got no idea was all that stuff was about :?

Howie

02-24-2006, 10:02 PM

I think or will to have abetter life but it is hard to penetrate pigthick skin but the remote viewing relaevance as a superiour topic is the heavywater for the nucleur it can be the ..........fucking noise is shit when you arealways trying ti do .
Started conscious thoughts because of NOISE! :mad:

Thanks for your participation Dude! I can't see any signs of any kind but I have found it fun and interesting.
How long has it taken you before the abstract thought begin to come?
If I am not tired I could sit here all day with nothing.

dudesuperior

02-25-2006, 05:00 AM

Celibacy among the ordained is not a requirement of those who may...the sea is calling for us when the waves crash into the mangroves...

Originally posted by Howetzer

Started conscious thoughts because of NOISE! :mad:

Yeah my dog barked during this try :roll:

[quote]How long has it taken you before the abstract thought begin to come?If I am not tired I could sit here all day with nothing.

I depends on what time of day it is for me. In the middle of the day I could do it for ages and nothing would come. But in the morning and at night the thoughts come quite quickly. But I can find it hard to decide if the thoughts were conscious or not.

Howie

02-25-2006, 06:18 AM

I depends on what time of day it is for me. In the middle of the day I could do it for ages and nothing would come. But in the morning and at night the thoughts come quite quickly. But I can find it hard to decide if the thoughts were conscious or not.[/b]

I think it happens in a very short moment. But there is a point when you perceive a thought before it arises, making it conscious choice.
It is difficult to reach pure HI or thoughts as you do a conscious thing as type. :P

My entries have seemed to be conscious in nature.
After I read them. Daily concerns or thoughts from that day.

Abstract Fire

03-06-2006, 03:59 AM

Here are mine:

Others see what they beleive... dogs yap incessently..... pen lid drawer plastic... fox up tree climbs...

The last? I heard some bushes move outside my window. :mad:

I was very surprised with the first. Hmm. I'll keep that one in mind. Reminds me of the shapes you see in clouds, sometimes only you can see them.

Another attempt:

Raom fee;s jimgry/// Atte,[ts gp wrpmg/// Nisjes [a;, trees

Touchtyping gone wrong... That second one was "Attempts gone wrong", but I don't know what the first was.

Howie

03-08-2006, 06:49 AM

aso many things seem to be more than coencedance but to log all if it would be impossible is you can oe cannot have be thinking of two thoughts at a time, if all it is is a concept you can have feelings of more than one no I feel bad for the neighbor yet envy certain things as well the mind is fucked up as i hearrd the buss go by that was inmy dream last night i missed itand I yelled out

Brings about a good question. Can you feel more than one emotion simultaeously?

Abstract Fire

03-10-2006, 02:37 AM

I feel angry and sad at the same time, but usually one's dominant, it's not 50/50, if you know what I mean.

Aeiis

03-12-2006, 08:48 PM

the words flow freely not knowing what to type useless babble coming from me like water from a faucett deos any of this make snese tales of god and of man the turth be told i will never nderstand any of it death will take me first what is thsi what is this i said it twice i just keeep going angels will soar the evangellist speaks yet robs from the poor and it doesnt matter anyway i just do it and do it forver here it goes ally here it goes down at it around nonsense anyway flows flows water stream from the falls it comes down like a lake water particles biology test gonna fail it already did take it backd o what you should have the first time.....

wowzer.

maybe i was doing it wrong, seems way to coherent.

Howie

03-13-2006, 06:12 AM

I know that I began this with the attempt to extract meaning out of these entry. And maybe you have.
But I must admit. It is damn funny to read these. If nothing else, it is fun. :upsidedown:

dudesuperior

03-13-2006, 11:53 AM

Potato slices through the weeds and makes a surprise... beams reminiscent to that of the ancient ones... the coelacanth aproches quietly

I can get nothing from that!

Howie

03-14-2006, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by dudesuperior
Potato slices through the weeds and makes a surprise... beams reminiscent to that of the ancient ones... the coelacanth aproches quietly

I can get nothing from that!

Possibly we will be able to look back on all your entries and see if there is a theme.
And we have to take into consideration some may not mean anything.

What time of day do you post?

I already had coffee this morning so I will opt out of sitting here for three hours to get HI. :wink:

italianmonkey

04-26-2006, 08:25 AM

don't think it's possible to babble in a foreign language
radio 3 speaks gibberish, nothing new under the sky.
and I DO feel stupid. To take the water with my brain sleeping. It's just reverse, all. I'm sleepeing in RL. stupid thing, too many radiations from this computer screen.
don't like dogs wanting to procreate. Too many doors to keep closed. And how can you pass if they don't have to pass?
Stupid dogs.

italianmonkey

04-27-2006, 08:01 AM

neither if you point a gun on me. I hate castaneda. like erix in the park nostradamusing, and silly me absorbing cups. No thanks, spring's enough

Howie

04-28-2006, 05:19 AM

in good a coherentb society the makes more of an opinion than as much as peole dress toomuch but the i was already thinking before I suggested waht I righ and have a level of conscosness to write yet zone alrm has to be updaeted the matress gets turned over to what is it illegal? there makes no snse if his name in france furdina and I// umm. that is all I smell coffee.... :shock: bye bye!

Howie

07-30-2006, 06:15 AM

Toehterness in an fashion is set to come toghter for a reson but there of thebargaing thoughts process and the interest rates rising fund copration =s that we don;t even care to know if there was one Jeseus Christ and the top notch republican can not bring down their own party dog has...

Gabi

08-29-2006, 04:53 PM

This idea is funny :) so I tried. I relax, focus on my breath and after 5 minutes I looked at my thoughts, only looking. This is what I saw:

Kitchens in fire with disgusting food are flying through clouds... Bored?... I have no thoughts, now I have...Lucid Euros seeking blue kites, kissing lips and swimming... my bass guitar look at me sadly...Knoledge plastics which contain written paper the golden key...Pretty lights waking mothers

I think this experiment made me realize that I'm crazy :bigteeth: funny, ah? hehehe

Man of Shred

08-29-2006, 05:50 PM

I hate castaneda.
[/b]

OMG do you have any idea who castaneda is? I've read every one of his books!

K abstract: there is money in the house. who said i am god? why are you still here? who the fuck is that?
why do i have to lie die. what is the meaning of this? I don't see anyone here. What the fuck ar you some sort of wise guy? gonna read the news. are you my fairy god mother.

Howie

09-07-2006, 05:13 AM

I have added a Cd of white noise to aid in this effeort.
I also decided to add ....where there is pauses in thought.
I almost notted off on this one. :dreaming:

poilgamy in efffort to show light ......cats aaaand thewire mesh do they alwaysthe books are not in the order that makes my opletree exposed camper lid and atinder box.....

Howie

01-23-2007, 08:34 AM

I sit in the nueceadn the bad boys of summmer can recall there aorkso onrecord to be flat out honets it would no tcompare to that of many sub forums that yu mentionedd I was wheree I thought i could play the event

Too much F&$^#@*! noise around here! :pissed:

I have been doing this when I e=wake up at night. My mind is more relaxed and right brain functioning. AND THERE IS NOT SO MUCH DAMN NOISE!!

taltho

01-23-2007, 08:49 PM

all in all here ia go every thim I ferl lead the dawmn af evryfhing i thik I can but maby cant is there lif or is there detrh al I feel is gental breth aod evty lfow I think of all zI know what dose it mean whrtr do I go ........ I feel as tho well I dont know hte swet I go so hot in htere i drift away to try and find hte old way the wteam insid the rocks the people what do the prayers mean anyway im wsure they know and what hte fuck so I rally know any way

time

Who That's kinda crazy.

Howie

04-15-2007, 08:35 AM

What sucks is all I want is COFFEE when I wake up. But then I can't be in a stupor. :|

given the results of the experience she had makes me wonder why she never had before and therei s so much outthre but you having kids so early misses out on a lot but where would have a lot gotte n you if you are anywya the search for some truth is a joke or is it for some people who are lost that have issue but fir whatever the reason many thing seem a mystery and if you claim to know nothing at all it is the same as knowing everything. it is the answer both have the same main product e=wejhn you analyze them side by side and their lies the ... lost my train of mumbling.

Howie

04-15-2007, 08:43 AM

I began this entire idea to help people try to recognize or to analyze their abstract thoughts.

:content: I can't help but say that I find the entries to be funny --in a good way.

RooJ

04-15-2007, 04:51 PM

Interesting idea, and some crazy results heh,
I just wanted to share that i have a similar personal project running (before i read this post), except im logging visual scenes. Ive found that, kinda like a daydream, i can 'set off' hypnogogic style imagery while awake, it seems completely random and unpredictable, things just appear without any thinking, aslong as i focus on that general area (where visions form).

The idea of logging it was hopefully to try and improve it, increase the vividness and clarity, and the memory, alot like logging dreams. Hopefully this will increase my ability in controlled visualization too.

Ill just give you my first attempt, to show what type of thing im getting, this is straight from journal, each part/vision/unique scene seperated by ".||.", attempt lasted a good 25 - 35 mins with a pause to write things down every few mins:

River running through farm field, Staggered/terraced fields on hillside, strange bomb shaped craft crashes into field in slow motion.||. Friend, butterfly flys infront of him, he's recieving a trophy.||. Cowboys running through scrub hillside, rocks and sand, dry grass, can only see at the level of cowboys feet.||. 2 Oldish looking trains running along side each other, about 30 metres apart, in the same direction, trees in the background and a cabin show trains moving fast, very clear, they pass a body of water, looks man made.||. Grass, bright yellow flowers against blue sky, really breathtaking.||. Army marching, looks roman-ish time period, view from above, golden/brass helmets.||. african men walking through 12ft or so high grass, path 2 metres or so in width.||. Close up of wise mans face, dark skin, white beard, images are more colourful and vivid.||. Can hear music ive just been listening to also.||. Girl playing football on field, tree's to her right.||. Dolphin jumping out of water (like they do when traveling beside a boat), banks of river in background.||. Lion in forrest/wood, 4 wheeler jeep in the background driving up and around a cliff out of site.||. Close up image of what looks like woodchip, very detailed.||. Human clock, strange, each person is a hand of the clock walking instead of ticking, heads melded in the centre never moving just rotating, their legs are walking around the outside of the clock.||. female mannequin.

No idea why any of that came to me, i just let it flow and noted what id witnessed down every few minutes. Dont you find the unconcious mind strange :)

Howie

04-16-2007, 10:29 AM

caught often in a mix of thought that mix that the wind around is no tseen but can have a profound effet how many things unseed do as our lives unfoldd to countlss stories and bring us here oe there and sometimes lead us to beleive illusion over reality but it too is ine in t hesame wind wind

Howie

07-27-2007, 04:54 PM

Today in hte entire scope was guaged in effort sto seak the brain and function how the world lives in its way to expand the eternal life of the unforgiven and the most profitable ways of the rich are no reason for the abstract thought patterns as they arive at a inconsistant lelve of reasoning upon which cant be diciphered on one to ne basis with yourslef and yourself s the ultimate challenge to

Howie

08-01-2007, 08:47 AM

Three D glasses as I was rnedering the work on paper to show it was a piece of an more whole a more of a tool to spring off of for the surrounding house and it does not mean it doesn't mean anything if you can;t underasand it.

Howie

08-12-2007, 08:22 AM

Case number 306 dvided by an eternal show of hands that result in the few taken advantage of remaiinn in the same position that they will alwaays be becasue they spoke too soflty and treaded on for life the are co

8/

Spamtek

08-15-2007, 11:39 AM

TO a three and four however sometimes of the monocle to affect thirteen different flavors of jellybeans, I can't really spork this as well as he thought a bear could. Hibiscus tentacles, some smelly tendrils and koala nation. Curved air scintillates, a flat surface together between his. Gherkin. Tamarinds, pomelos, "so what" he thought, "i could think this anywhere, what do you want with" and tendriculous. Tendrils! Forty-seven femurs, Gorbash jittery thugs. Sleeping in an open bowl, elephant geishas throw dice to the wind and a dark vacuum overcomes, horizons sleep, sink, gone. Stars still stay, water and movie metaphors, Miyazaki has a lot to live up to and pigs! Pigs a lot, mud is better. Recycled fur can't possibly destroy, but utility prevents it. Thiamine. Theremin. I'll never understand electronics, cities, electronics, green card sugar wafers. Electronic purchases to a blue background, clear air, clear air, clear plastic extends forever and a sickle abstract three-dimensional flattened, hipsters think they own the world. An inkling grows, banana breath whorls over a buddhist pig.

Well...!

Howie

08-15-2007, 08:06 PM

Well? What do YOU think?

I certainly can't decipher that. ;)
I think only you can.
That is how I use it. I find this method to be more helpful than my ordinary journal. But I have to be in the correct frame of mind.

What were your thoughts beginning this Spamtek? Also, what was your frame of mind?

It is fun reading others though. :laughhard:

Spamtek

10-18-2007, 04:46 PM

I thought this was fun last time I did it. Let's try again. I just treat it like an extended word association game; I try to throw away pretentions of acceptable form or protocol and just follow words and images as they appear. Like image-streaming, really, but it shifts from the visual to the lexic and back again pretty fast, so not entirely.

Naked. Fairies dance in a sheltered glade, glasses, glasses half-full and dark, circling round and three times through, back to you. Unsheltered. Nude. Faintly glimmering, falsetto subtleties win a 9.3, sick and tired, sick and tired, following a new track, same old self-reference. Faces carved into mountains, mountain-sides, Crazy Horse and tired Indian cliches, a red thing on the horizon. It moves closer, the car moves backwards, ten little indians, three glasses, clear as water, half-full. Filtering sensibilities, "I could talk for radio," sometimes I wish it would be simpler but bananas get in the way. Or tangerines? Two oranges, I could eat them right now, but obligations and self-loathing are in the way, and my shoulders ache. Ack. Take, three taken, Too many left to count but there's always time for those another day. Graffiti poems aren't taken seriously, bold font gets laughed at and typesetters have never been respected anyways. Flowers in a pot, lilies will extend your life. Fucking elephants! Following the same routes, glasses on the horizon, tip over like dominoes and flood the reservation, what's full now? Bars of color, overcoming, "God damn, stop with this." "Where else should I go?" The bottom of the sea. Thanks Thom. Last time there weren't any weird fishes, just horrible eels and undead pirates, yeah, imaginations don't exactly thrive on internet flash games. Following the trends, bucking the trends, the pole breaks and the balance artist falls. No net. We caught the fish. Interstices, escape, canyons, soft breath and buttery petals, walls of strings and leaves of grass, horrible beards and crags on a face, age, old, we cave in and die. Bouncing balls, exercise balls, yoga girls and self-delusion, stars go supernova and we don't even care. Breathe in. Prana. Supernova. Breathe out. Burn 5 calories. Papercuts, the HORIZON IS FLOODING, the cups are empty, and the streams are flowing on curved air again, that goddamned air. It sparkles, it's ephemeral, it hangs in front of me like an invisible crescent, the planes bend just enough to tell me they're here. Reach out. All the metaphysics I'll be able to pull.

Apparently influenced by my last post and In Rainbows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Rainbows).

Howie

10-18-2007, 04:53 PM

:laughhard: Awesome. Not that I have a clue what you are talking about,
But that is not the point anyway.

I thought this was fun last time I did it. Let's try again. I just treat it like an extended word association game; I try to throw away pretentions of acceptable form or protocol and just follow words and images as they appear. Like image-streaming, really, but it shifts from the visual to the lexic and back again pretty fast, so not entirely.

Good way to put it, :thumbup:

ClouD

10-19-2007, 10:04 AM

Spamtek

10-19-2007, 03:45 PM

it only pumped out a minimal few words.Maybe you should dare to be frivolous. I mean, I started with 'Naked' because the song I was listening to at the time was called "Nude". It wasn't some deep ultramystical insight, and honestly I can tie most of what I wrote back to pretty evident things that I've experienced or thought in the last day or two. Hmm... sort of a like a dream.

Howie

10-19-2007, 08:05 PM

I found this not coming so smoothly. I maintain an almost completely clear mind for most of the day, and i've been working on that for over a year now.

My first attempt. I had to force my mind back into it's liquid state, and still, it only pumped out a minimal few words.

estereth. foolish creation of foolish. seclureality.

Somewhat highly irrelevant to everything.

I can't get anything out the second attempt. I'll try again later.

I would feel blessed if that were the case.
You have a good thing.
"To a quite mind, the universe surrenders."

I can only attempt this during a state of sleepiness. Either from sleep or going into sleep. Using hypnagogic thought patterns to produce auditory commentary.

Using Spamtek's method, abstract free thought process could be used much like brain storming. More so on an unconscious level. Cool

rambling paterns of useful noise will ead to tjecarry ..
That is tuff.
But I see it!

ClouD

10-20-2007, 06:11 AM

Maybe you should dare to be frivolous. I mean, I started with 'Naked' because the song I was listening to at the time was called "Nude". It wasn't some deep ultramystical insight, and honestly I can tie most of what I wrote back to pretty evident things that I've experienced or thought in the last day or two. Hmm... sort of a like a dream.

The coincidence...
I was listening to Nude by Radiohead, seconds before i did that.

My 2nd attempt, where i am all alone (in my house):

hateful vigoroushness. dementias intrepid lenemia masked fraludent rousing a multituding relinquishings. an ill-unexpected irony felt failingly disapproved in grips like steel.

4 minutes pumped out that. :lol:
I can't make much sense of it. Yet, i supppose that's part of the point. :P

-Jake

Howie

10-21-2007, 05:31 AM

Prior coffee, Sunday morning.

Geting to know wishes to explain the where I have to been inthe first dya of duck camp to the power of imagination flows to my head any lennox I have an anlge hair waisted to go home to the truth they are all fucked up nayway so why should I be that one to tell nayoen who it is that they are to sooek it all comes around in theend to drop the preoconditoned thought as I have ried in the past so many times and random patterns float through my power of imagination flows right through ny head can't find answrs only flaws in the bible but makes it no less credible tothose who belreve are we going down a road where was
cognizant

Howie

01-06-2008, 06:08 AM

Carrie and cotrban as if they were attainable for the same reason i cnanot seem to make a straight ticket work for all the same my nighbor would not toch me and he did so because he did not nkwo how the reason for a lot oft hemanflick towards the world is hte iron chef I dont want ot end up there I will though drop theinfection inthat is bedded inevr.

01-06-2008, 07:09 AM

Every time I try to begin typing, it all collapses into reason.

Argh.

Howie

01-06-2008, 07:16 AM

Every time I try to begin typing, it all collapses into reason.

Argh.

Ha ha. I know what you mean.
I have tried this many mornings and just deleted it.
You are too awake pj. :shock:

Typing doesn't help. To much an analytical process.

Try again one day when you feel relaxed maybe? I would be interested to see. As you are a very logical person, it will combine reason with abstract and be very interesting.

01-06-2008, 07:21 AM

As you are a very logical person, it will combine reason with abstract and be very interesting.

I am beginning to wonder whether logic and reason aren't the real crux of the Curse - you know, knowledge of good and evil and all that.

I spend so much time reasoning that experience passes me right by. Meditating to get into the state you are trying to reach before typing these blurbs seems to be a key to circumventing all that.

So here I sit, trying to reason myself out of reason.

That's just too delicious.

Howie

01-06-2008, 07:44 AM

I am beginning to wonder whether logic and reason aren't the real crux of the Curse - you know, knowledge of good and evil and all that.

I spend so much time reasoning that experience passes me right by. Meditating to get into the state you are trying to reach before typing these blurbs seems to be a key to circumventing all that.

So here I sit, trying to reason myself out of reason.

That's just too delicious.

pj. I do know what you mean. Or I am pretty sure. I made an attempt at making a proverb several weeks ago. I logically talk myself out of 40 variable on how to say what I'm thinking. I compromise and settle for - "Higher learning begets variables upon variables upon variables -Me

With you music, does logic and reason stand in the way of your creativity? It does my art.
I want to attain a place where my conscious flows and is not inhibited by constant interruptions of thought. Does that make any sense?

01-06-2008, 01:14 PM

With you music, does logic and reason stand in the way of your creativity? It does my art.

I want to attain a place where my conscious flows and is not inhibited by constant interruptions of thought. Does that make any sense?

That's a question with an ironic answer.

In music, before one learns an instrument and music theory, there isn't much you can do with it.

Once you HAVE learned it, the academics become a straight jacket... unless you can forget it again. The music has to come from a different place. It isn't my head that the good stuff comes from - it is my gut. I don't know how else to explain it. But I have to go through my head to get to my gut. Like oration... one cannot orate effectively if you are all wrapped up in the details of grammar and composition. You have to "forget" those things. Is that really what it is though? Perhaps it is just learning it and then handing it off to deeper levels, freeing up your conscious to be creative in a new context.

I'm going to start a spin-off thread from this one. As is so often the case with you, this thread about something you are pondering has acted as a catalyst to solidify something I've been thinking about for weeks... in an odd way.

Look for a thread, coming soon, called "No Why <> Know Why". It will be in philosophy.

Howie

01-06-2008, 01:55 PM

That's a question with an ironic answer.

In music, before one learns an instrument and music theory, there isn't much you can do with it.

Once you HAVE learned it, the academics become a straight jacket... unless you can forget it again. The music has to come from a different place. It isn't my head that the good stuff comes from - it is my gut. I don't know how else to explain it. But I have to go through my head to get to my gut. Like oration... one cannot orate effectively if you are all wrapped up in the details of grammar and composition. You have to "forget" those things. Is that really what it is though? Perhaps it is just learning it and then handing it off to deeper levels, freeing up your conscious to be creative in a new context.

I'm going to start a spin-off thread from this one. As is so often the case with you, this thread about something you are pondering has acted as a catalyst to solidify something I've been thinking about for weeks... in an odd way.

Look for a thread, coming soon, called "No Why <> Know Why". It will be in philosophy.

Great! I look forward to it.
I am now certain I am thinking along the same lines. Sorry to revert back to another proverb. (they have become very useful ;)) "When all the little details are forgotten, education is what remains."

In some underlying manner the foundation has been built, yes?
Now we then can rely on our intuitive instinct, our gut, to evolve the rest of the sequences for us.

01-06-2008, 03:30 PM

No Why <> Know Why (http://www.dreamviews.com/community/showthread.php?p=647097#post647097)

Howie

01-11-2008, 05:29 AM

type whtever begins in your head as the fly hits the main vestibule ....junction box in ordrto provide the chaos need to fightdumb the unaware that fight the things to fel obsolete clueless nature and reasoning fialed out system the fight ofr free emotions to share positiovee alll so much of the negitive renders over overr over to the sma peole as it spills good but that as it won't happen that way go for the next yrar off I then have a perspective of ignorance to the smae plite that thatcher had to the adreess by the general assmebly.

Today was a good day. Thoughts flowed.

Howie

01-13-2008, 05:07 AM

in the wake of a new setting i should realize change for the infant is nit the par tthat has the objection for reason that become far out the origan of the fly into space because the physical features are in place rendering this attractive thoughts and actions that are frowned opon to the nature of we thepublic are refined to establish an ordder to drceee any form of bolstering intelect that the harmones get away fron us as we to do often get the issue in our fact to order the space beteen our ears that i have to hear so long ju

Howie

01-16-2008, 06:25 AM

restful weary to go knowing hte plywood is an balmy sunday to restore the planes of digression to the point that one will cant go for any lenght of time find the time for thr gre.

Howie

01-27-2008, 06:30 AM

reconsider the advent cost to refurbish the community tohas as inward impact for you can tell the inlet fiord has spoken from the earth going mother ship to pronounce you freedom riotous condemns for tailgates the wind i na mind branch of experimental thought fast has retired

ok
When it ends it just ends kuput.
I think my typing skill are improving. :P

Howie

01-28-2008, 03:41 AM

sorry today is the one you have to gian the momentum to throw forward at a pace of ignoring the past go where the subjects lye you just damned yourslef to hell you fuckstain ass hole to you can where what you want for any whatever close to me is not a factore but the bus tommorrrow gains the torrent display of ignorance baffled to beyond my beliefs i ho

Howie

02-01-2008, 02:25 AM

Coan C Bolye trends mark the vetabule fraim work not incedent to the freak in myshore viron temper plow gas to termianl fact gone while there is a remaing thought to produce the vorjak test in sequance the bitter trail of symphony eclpis the toil mass fr

02-01-2008, 03:45 AM

the world is a snow globe with ice down there and sky up there. i'd rather be up there today, but the shackles of my own choosing are stronger than that.

Howie

02-03-2008, 06:19 AM

posture rip idlplrfan fist jared far awway stew over the lost result of such images capturing for thr twin tower aches sown the winter months facimily for the event came to be an akward experience to show the kids family those who know you would lile to believe but they can't open their eys to any thing but why they came heaar gone for the winter flow is soltice firgiving me to beg him under his wing giudance of secure mind can inspire to new heights the wonder of

Howie

02-05-2008, 05:51 AM

Docel brain freeze conects the two hemispheres yard waste compiles scarely to prohibit companies to begin production taking a limb chamber advance corridor is fake top notch in your class weaken the pool of the regime pondering waht is left to amble seed pot

Howie

02-06-2008, 06:46 AM

Positive traits and poor posture clean if jars.
:|
Too awake

Howie

02-15-2008, 05:11 AM

posterpeedack red ny coming out of your shell hoping to prosper faking the part sodom and gamora fiesta trail mix disproportionate to t how real world plays a maifesto in temrs of a third party sassoon asia minor rex

Howie

02-16-2008, 05:13 AM

tame fee into an archive sheet far beneath the range of frequency adapted by the more prime pistol comma phase grant my opinions oh service thee bake and clutter sale far below the news take on the situation freedom riders adore the physical flesh behing wjha t glorifies the truency that lacks the necesasacry benelevance to ponder what they need to do for the en entire whole of the people.

~ If it seems like when more than four five or six seconds go by I'm out of the "flow" I then begin to manifest on a more conscious based thought process. < That opposed to subconscious thoughts.

Howie

02-19-2008, 06:00 AM

Jamestown usa for the basis for reason skilled labor throws frets manuaver till the bank of offshore accounts lye bankrupt to cause freedom to spill a large function of society into a recession of combative stratigic maneuvers comencing intoi strange vats of lithium for ever and a day to get the results from your background check this is preliminary arts school to get to the race war that happen eventually in the ring of gallolao tankss aggression force squad actuary position claims a refund where the minor convnient position cause the effects of a receeding front row of you pawn structure to collapcse inti the free speech prerequisit are founf to blaim some parents for the ambision crisis of justis gone for the st---------

I was really flowing good this morning. But I got interrupted by something good this time
Good morning Brookester.

Howie

03-08-2008, 04:31 AM

Active control X java run time snesi dragomnoverlord on behalf is towards a switzerland apartheid peace treaty keeping prairie home companion shop to end days of may violation foster ho,e twinfle for shit thick gorgeous woman allure to favor the porn star victor newman hopes the jar of flies can fairy hom

Conquer

03-09-2008, 06:27 PM

Maybe I missed the goal of this writing? I kinda just skimmed over the explanitory post. Anyways, here goes. Will write until I become too distracted.

closing my eyes beggining focus wondering when my random thoughts will kick in. relaxing hearing a slight hum feeling the keyboard under my fingers and listening to the distinct noise of the spacebar which sounds different from the rest of the keys. dark shapes, spinning, hurting, not letting me resolve through what they are into what I am. trying to see thoughts everythings lost confused hiding shadowing running from me while I run from myself eyes twitching thoughts flowing unsure unwilling damage. friday kicked ass cant wait for party damn cant remember when it is I think maybe its harder to remember stuff when im typing with my eyes closed oh shit I thinhk i missed capitals and punctuation there for a bit. k i think maybe this isnt working with me how it should work im starting again ignore this post completely
-----------------------------------------

waterfall cave scenery visionary in my head hearing voices while thinking over what im hearing maybe she wants a second chance maybe i should give her one man i hope he doesnt find out lol id feel bad dont know whats going to happen
---- and a distraction kicks in here, my thoughts become less open.

:?:?:?:?

Anyone feel free to tell me how I did ;)

Howie

03-14-2008, 04:20 AM

Maybe I missed the goal of this writing? I kinda just skimmed over the explanitory post. Anyways, here goes. Will write until I become too distracted.

Conquer - I think you got it.
Don't worry at all about spelling or even what you are saying. Just close your eyes and write what comes in your head, fluent or not, fragmented or not, just do.. :)

Sometimes my typing is sooo bad that I go back and fix some words that I could barely make out.
To look at this hours or days later is when you get something out of this, imo. When you are fully awake.
Today I was more out of a slumber than I would have liked.
It's all good. ;)

Fast falling garbage dump awakes the ring finger swell hemorrhage to theh brain is perhaps the leading casue of trauma in cases of same sex marriage to vent the onging frugar is the resident and the voluntere to eat at the table and say grace when it is shallow or not is not a concern to care if you do not just go through the motions entirley subsequently verb to has bee

Howie

03-15-2008, 06:51 AM

-flaming lips re tire the front man fron going home tho peace with even cars binder twine and a boulen knot will give cannibalism twigs br snap fluorescent

Howie

03-17-2008, 04:54 AM

blunder of roads lead to half way houses to the straw end of the limitless imagination offering insight to untoldbounderaiies of the mind and the scene of camouflage deters the element of suprise to the opposition leader in a tort reform bill to congress acting as a leader in gestures the folk lore ends the scallops

so so tired. :zzz:

Howie

03-19-2008, 06:19 AM

confrontation heats up the room to a boils and is certain to show mens arrogance as they seem they are never able to pan handle the mess they create and shovle their way out of the messs they sleep in

Howie

03-22-2008, 05:41 AM

proper habits obtained to record the visual sequance can lead to misbehaved thoughts and out of reaction a loose cannon apppears to take fold into the back trunk of the ice truck killler hain

forward to the inland the a

Howie

03-24-2008, 05:34 AM

potholes sinnk into the earth today as the world went away together in freedom. born yesterday in a life far away the iron curtain remains the manifesto against for death ot react to ther vengance repnt

My last several entries have all been very similar in length.
They've gotten shorter.

Howie

03-28-2008, 05:30 AM

As smitten as I seem to ignore the facility to puncture wounds arounnd a second guess arrival vash cutomes to recieve afrt=t

* Just sparked dream recall from last night

:cactus:

Howie

03-29-2008, 05:47 AM

Two sparrows meet at the surface to contract out a bid ofr kevin who it is not a bit you fool that his transgressions proved tio b ewhat Amiss the most the times when they were u impacted by nature as it was intended to go strong and brave into the unknown the lack of fluency will cause my demise as it will catch up with me only if I let it otherwise I must run and run forever unless thrre is a door I cna find to elaborate the function of the brain. terrible keyss cross the fench room go to the door that has a foot

Howie

04-05-2008, 04:42 AM

The goal is to perceive the object as it is viewed until that point it is not subject ti interpretation then you go on to spectate and the molocules change giving every event a cause and effect along side event that unfold on a less subatomoc levle to change the coarse of any give event randomness only seming random because it is observed after thr fact that the event was observed taking away free will on an unconscious level, Taking a conscious level to manu=ipulate structure moving forward to quantum mechanics then changes the happenstance into reason behind the vague interpretations we call happenstance at the view of every light the object

Howie

04-09-2008, 04:30 AM

freedom dodge ball for the quest for freedom to will the strong and behold their power of the magnificant amount of tumult on the mountain variies in degree of the vetraform adict to close the doors of the abused and addicts facilitates our hatred for america and its glorified union representative to go out and perform a job on a level worhty of any praise to act the concert was away and she turned back time to fuck things alll uo as you can't go back once you have gone back its the same as the present when thoughts from the past manifest in the today correlating the two minds into one a conscious effort to change that would relsut in harm and foul play as the t ball struck the fear in the man at the till wearer of all demoting capacities the l free form of writing as the car acts as a bullet i forlorn th edead

Howie

04-13-2008, 04:55 AM

Written template of the forelorned of the dead the smell resonated through the waste and the fell penetrates the wall a deep discussion of the strategic resonance imaging scan brought back to lidfe the many inappropriate keys to success there were bones and thugs for thr ela to fed on portay him as the dead evil man to go beyond junctior please be forewarned of the nature of this attach to the man who is tjru to his name is far to cry in his own words really fron the perspective of the nature gi ti the outhouse while you can the free tree is in the corner hmnm

Man of Steel

04-19-2008, 12:02 AM

Howie

04-19-2008, 05:32 AM

Tap into the bodies being pushed inot the sea the vector condensor has supressed the recall of the inhabitants of the lord who shall be great in moderation to show the disciples the answer to gold melting down into iron .

Thanks Man of Steel.
I have to laugh to think what others might think to read some of these if they do not know the way it is done.
Hope to see you around.
I think it has been a good exercise upon in a lethargic state for or conscious minds to tap back into our subconscious....to a degree.

I often use this when I can't remember any dream recall from the night.

[COLOR="Green"]Man of Steel - Oh ya. Also come back a day later or when you are more cognizant and read it. See what you can pull out of it.

phoenelai

04-19-2008, 08:48 PM

okay I think I'd like to get in on this or learn it. How do you do this? Is this a free form word association lyrical explosion! teach me! inquiring minds want to know

;)

Man of Steel

04-20-2008, 12:30 AM

I love doing this, I do it in FlashChat all the time. If I'd known this was here... Anyhow, great idea, Howie! I hadn't thought of it as a way to actually get useful information from the subconscious! Now you've got me all excited! Here goes:

A circular room with four corners stares out at me from the fog. Why there is fog continues to concern me greatly. I close my eyes, or think about closing my eyes, but they do not close. Why do little dogs persist at yapping the night away in the realm of the purple clock-sphere? My dad says this is because the cog on the fourth wheel is missing every other rotation, but my mind doesn't comprehend this quite yet. Do you know what day it is in China? It is neither day nor night in the depths of my field's imagination, the frog said to the oversized penguin. Damn, my wrist is REALLY starting to hurt!

And so I quit and edited for spelling. Hmm...

The 'circular room with four corners' I actually saw when I shut my eyes to clear my mind. It could reference the way I keep stress inside too much, the circular room being a never-ending container in which stress is held, and the four corners being bumps along the way, so to speak. The fog is my constant state of not quite having a concrete opinion, or not feeling like I'm able to voice it when I do. This does indeed bother me. Trying to close my eyes but them not closing may be referencing the way I feel unable to change this. 'Little dogs' could mean my sister-in-law's YorkiePoo, which I can't stand (I can't stand my sister-in-law either) and my sister-in-law's favorite color is purple.

My father is known for being overly optimistic, and often making very silly comments, that sometimes get irritating but sometimes make a little sense, if you look at them right. There's been a lot of talk lately about whether China could get along without the U.S.'s business, and how we are in debt to China as a country. Maybe that entered my thoughts somewhere. My imagination is a dusky place, so 'neither day nor night' seems pretty fitting. The frog and the oversized penguin I don't know about. Oversized seems to have something to do with the really high gas prices when I think about it now.

And my wrist DID hurt because I was typing so fast.

...Wow, I actually pulled quite a bit from that! :shock: I think you're definitely onto something here, Howie!

Tap into the bodies being pushed inot the sea the vector condensor has supressed the recall of the inhabitants of the lord who shall be great in moderation to show the disciples the answer to gold melting down into iron .

Thanks Man of Steel.
I have to laugh to think what others might think to read some of these if they do not know the way it is done.
Hope to see you around.
I think it has been a good exercise upon in a lethargic state for or conscious minds to tap back into our subconscious....to a degree.

I often use this when I can't remember any dream recall from the night.

Man of Steel - Oh ya. Also come back a day later or when you are more cognizant and read it. See what you can pull out of it.

Yeah, I've got some pretty confused responses in chat. :lol:

Me and CoLd_BlooDed, Mark75, Amethyst Star and sometimes others do this every now and then, usually in pairs. Sometimes we'll sort of base ours off of the other's, kind of associate them. We can get some pretty crazy stuff going.

It's a bit different than what we're aiming for here, though, I think. I'll go through what I posted yesterday and see if I can make any sense of any of it. See above!

okay I think I'd like to get in on this or learn it. How do you do this? Is this a free form word association lyrical explosion! teach me! inquiring minds want to know

;)

I think Howie explained it pretty well in his second post in this topic. Go read the first page, you'll see. Basically, you just clear your mind completely, then type out whatever random words or thoughts that enter your head for a certain amount of time, or until you run out of thoughts. Like I'm about to do...

The Sound of Music beckons to me from the boughs of a nearby willow tree, the vacant lot behind floating in shallow space with a flickering of a smattering of brilliant lights as a shining backdrop, this almost certainly means that my fingers are moving far too fast for light to see, and that the foreign dogs that bite my leg will flow effervescently through the Nile in a hurry unbefitting a queen such as yourself. What does this mean in layman's terms? I do not know, but ask the delivery boy. He knows. For sure, surely and sooth the night drags on long from the depths of a bewildered frog's lenient mouth.

I'll stop there. I had a ton of typos in that, from how fast I was typing. And I'm a hunt-and-peck typist. However, I get to typing extremely fast when I do this, as my fingers are trying their best to keep up with my mind.

Howie

04-20-2008, 05:45 AM

coincide with the mouse if you have to because the strife tht can cause you to release the ania

my stupid ass dog just began barking and snapped me out of it. :|

Howie

04-20-2008, 05:54 AM

okay I think I'd like to get in on this or learn it. How do you do this? Is this a free form word association lyrical explosion! teach me! inquiring minds want to know

I think Howie explained it pretty well in his second post in this topic. Go read the first page, you'll see. Basically, you just clear your mind completely, then type out whatever random words or thoughts that enter your head for a certain amount of time, or until you run out of thoughts. Like I'm about to do..

WOW - That was two years ago. wholly crap!
The Idea>
To relax and meditate until you have random thoughts in your head. No noises no interruptions. I am not going to focus on any particular thought. I will not think about what I am thinking. Just write!
The draw backs are that I cannot type well and I have to keep my eyes open to do so. (EDIT) DO NOT have eyes open.What I did when I reached the state of consciousness I was after was to just give a blank stare at the monitor and let the thoughts flow.
The outcome>
Hopefully upon looking back at what I wrote I may be able to extract some useful information much like you would from hypnagogic imagery.
I would like to add to that. I think I may have through out the process.
This process works best IMO if you are half awake or half asleep. You can use mediation to get to a similar stage. However when you are very tired or you're just waking up, our subconscious is very close at hand. In the correct environment as I explained above, you will be relaxed and abstract random thoughts will come, as the act of thinking is a natural one. The difference is that these thoughts will be random, abstract obscure and even vague. Compared to that of a waking state where ones mind can function on a different level, thought processing on a different level.
Don't worry about cognitive skills, typing spelling, grammar, what you are saying. Just do. Let the subconscious do the talking. To be too cognizant defeats the purpose. Our waking mind quickly wants to take over the actions of thinking once we let it.

Yeah, I've got some pretty confused responses in chat.
Me and CoLd_BlooDed, Mark75, Amethyst Star and sometimes others do this every now and then, usually in pairs. Sometimes we'll sort of base ours off of the other's, kind of associate them. We can get some pretty crazy stuff going.

It's a bit different than what we're aiming for here, though, I think. I'll go through what I posted yesterday and see if I can make any sense of any of it. See above

Wow, I had never thought of bringing more people in on a similar idea. that's cool.
It's interesting reading others replies. You read it and wonder what is really going on inside their head. :)

Thanks you guys for giving me cause to look back at some of my steps. Not too many members have been involved in this Abstract journal. Therefore I kind of just kept going as if it was a regular dream journal.
Over this period I have gotten to the point that I keep my eyes closed. I think I also may go as far as to put some foam ear plugs in. If you look back you can see how many times that noise has interrupted the flowing thought process.
Maybe no external input is best, noise site or even smell.

phoenelai

04-20-2008, 07:53 AM

Howie

04-20-2008, 08:15 AM

Thanks guys this is really cool. One last question if you were to wake up you could type some dream recall fragments but it doesn't have to be all dream recall, what ever pops in the brain too? I can see how this can help with dream recall as well in that respect although.

Amazing! :banana:

phoenelai, my renderings are not based around my dreams. Because I often do this first thing in the morning, some of my dream content I do see leak out into my writing.
I see it as exercising your subconscious. Doing this anytime of the day would be worth the while.. I think.

like you say, "I can see how this can help with dream recall."
If our subconscious is exercised it surely could help dream recall.

I am a strong believer in the subconscious. Although I feel it is part of the consciousness as a whole, I feel it works on it's own level and sometimes on its own accord.
I feel that the subconscious is at work with many things in our daily lives while fully awake. Recognizing when it has an influence can be very strong. At the same time not impeding it's process may be just as paramount.

phoenelai

04-20-2008, 09:35 AM

phoenelai, my renderings are not based around my dreams. Because I often do this first thing in the morning, some of my dream content I do see leak out into my writing.
I see it as exercising your subconscious. Doing this anytime of the day would be worth the while.. I think.

like you say, "I can see how this can help with dream recall."
If our subconscious is exercised it surely could help dream recall.

I am a strong believer in the subconscious. Although I feel it is part of the consciousness as a whole, I feel it works on it's own level and sometimes on its own accord.
I feel that the subconscious is at work with many things in our daily lives while fully awake. Recognizing when it has an influence can be very strong. At the same time not impeding it's process may be just as paramount.

Thanks Howie, although Dreamviews has many great things to offer it's not too often I find something new and to say "interesting". This is no offense to anyone throwing out new methods etc, everyone sharing it's a great thing but I feel some of them are just rehashed or tweaked a bit different and given a new name etc.

And this idea is not a lucid induction technique per say but I agree with you when it comes to the subconscious. I mean look at all the different spirituality methods that deal with the subconscious. Even just psychology itself, there's allot to do with subconscious training. It has a big part of us as human beings. Obviously dreams have quite a bit to do with the subconscious. I think this could open many new doors.

Any way with that being said, I will start my own abstract journal; and thanks again for posting here at DV.

:)

Howie

04-20-2008, 04:41 PM

Cool, I'm glad you are starting your own abstract journal. Over all I feel this journal has been more advantageous than my dream journal. It has not helped with regards to recall but it is not really meant for that purpose.

One reason I love lucid dreaming is because you are consciously viewing the subconscious in action.
When someone is so worried about taking control over their lucid dreams they are in one sense taking that away. You consciously make your own actions instead of navigating through a great experience that is right in front of our eyes. We as people are sometimes so fixated on control that we loose sight of other things.
Anyways thanks for your input and happy times mingling with your subconscious! :)

phoenelai

04-20-2008, 05:47 PM

Man of Steel

04-20-2008, 10:26 PM

WOW - That was two years ago. wholly crap!
The Idea>
To relax and meditate until you have random thoughts in your head. No noises no interruptions. I am not going to focus on any particular thought. I will not think about what I am thinking. Just write!
The draw backs are that I cannot type well and I have to keep my eyes open to do so. (EDIT) DO NOT have eyes open.What I did when I reached the state of consciousness I was after was to just give a blank stare at the monitor and let the thoughts flow.
The outcome>
Hopefully upon looking back at what I wrote I may be able to extract some useful information much like you would from hypnagogic imagery.
I would like to add to that. I think I may have through out the process.
This process works best IMO if you are half awake or half asleep. You can use mediation to get to a similar stage. However when you are very tired or you're just waking up, our subconscious is very close at hand. In the correct environment as I explained above, you will be relaxed and abstract random thoughts will come, as the act of thinking is a natural one. The difference is that these thoughts will be random, abstract obscure and even vague. Compared to that of a waking state where ones mind can function on a different level, thought processing on a different level.
Don't worry about cognitive skills, typing spelling, grammar, what you are saying. Just do. Let the subconscious do the talking. To be too cognizant defeats the purpose. Our waking mind quickly wants to take over the actions of thinking once we let it.

Wow, I had never thought of bringing more people in on a similar idea. that's cool.
It's interesting reading others replies. You read it and wonder what is really going on inside their head. :)

Thanks you guys for giving me cause to look back at some of my steps. Not too many members have been involved in this Abstract journal. Therefore I kind of just kept going as if it was a regular dream journal.
Over this period I have gotten to the point that I keep my eyes closed. I think I also may go as far as to put some foam ear plugs in. If you look back you can see how many times that noise has interrupted the flowing thought process.
Maybe no external input is best, noise site or even smell.

Lots of great points there, Howie. I've noticed a lot of times when I'm so sleepy I'm half-dead, I get almost high, and this subconscious rambling just pours out. Of course at that point I find it absolutely hilarious, being sleep-deprived. :D

Maybe we could set up a time to get in IRC chat with a few interested members and experiment with this? Maybe kinda go back and forth, sort of feeding off of one another? I think that could be a very productive activity. It wouldn't be under quite the meditative conditions we're striving for here, but the added interaction could be beneficial I believe. Thoughts on this?

Howie

04-21-2008, 05:50 AM

Stints of brilliance flutter along the highway to encounter a car the destructive force of nature has overlooked the geogrid set in place to encounter the weight of the earths storm to prevent a catastrophic anomaly to bear arms.

Maybe we could set up a time to get in IRC chat with a few interested members and experiment with this? Maybe kinda go back and forth, sort of feeding off of one another? I think that could be a very productive activity. It wouldn't be under quite the meditative conditions we're striving for here, but the added interaction could be beneficial I believe. Thoughts on this?

I would think that such random thoughts bouncing around would be very interesting. With more people the more random it would become. It would be excellent if to see how we would react as we have to decipher someone else's words and then still try to remain in that state of awareness.

Howie

04-22-2008, 02:59 AM

Minds dieing scream in pain dead bodies drop like rain soldiers efvery where death is in the air the bulletin has shown the effectiveness in the hazardous waste material to longivity of the half lief of its own cycle method is cheap to purpose to the weak at hand and the dead soldiers frantic hand of grace of the lord to the people has an exhilarating experience to the non subjective imperialistic idiot who does not care in the least of what he does and does not do giving the poplar tree the issue of the wild game taste in the stove.

what am I doing before 5 am. :P

phoenelai

04-22-2008, 09:35 AM

I yet to do one upon awakening. Do you find them to come out way different than say during the day or evening? Different thoughts, pictures or emotions?

curious :shock:

Man of Steel

04-22-2008, 05:05 PM

I would think that such random thoughts bouncing around would be very interesting. With more people the more random it would become. It would be excellent if to see how we would react as we have to decipher someone else's words and then still try to remain in that state of awareness.

Exactly! Perhaps we should each PM a couple people to find out when a good time would be to try this?

I yet to do one upon awakening. Do you find them to come out way different than say during the day or evening? Different thoughts, pictures or emotions?

curious :shock:

I do find them to be much funnier and more senseless (as in it's harder to extract useful information from) when I'm really, really tired. If I'm literally about to pass out from exhaustion, it comes really easily, and often involves less repetition.

Amethyst Star

04-23-2008, 10:48 PM

The majority of my "abstract ravings" is somewhat forced, but I think that I could let it all go. My mind has a tendency to get fixated on a particular word or object, and the writer in me steps in and kicks my thoughts in a different direction. My mind is a 5-way intersection traffic controller rather than a river.

Floating aimlessly across molten rivers of plastic wrappers and discs over the picture of parents enjoying sweet white cookies of seventeen pills each. Flailing about, my headphones rocked the red light behind my eyelids across the hammock and led me to the lamp post over the eastern sun.

(Hmm... that's a lot less typing for the time I put into it... meh.) I'd be in to participating ;)

Howie

04-24-2008, 06:55 PM

It is hard isn't it ? -To not get fixated on one thought or another.

Man of Steel

04-24-2008, 07:13 PM

Glad to hear you're in, Ames!

A freeway of molten thughts escalates across the black void that is my error screen. When I blink, time stops, my heart freezes, and the effervescent green episcopal turtle bites, crawling up the peach tree like a horrible log of envious emotions. My black suit approaches the color of magic as my throat blocks out the smell of blasted urine, coming from across the room in a whirlwing of multicolored frogs. This disturbs the golden throes of holistic murderers murdering rock and roll down the street of ill content. Where are the cows of ill wind, when you need a strong drink of purple vodka? My Fresian toe knows no bounds.

I'll see what I can get out of that tomorrow. :D

Howie

04-25-2008, 04:23 AM

wrotten apple sends the fruit bearer to arms with the north framed and matted garage sales free associate to the minds eye fruit tree gives two fold the anserw of the upcoming event that foeshadows a prospect fo manipulatioon a mind grugging bitch is in the works for you youg man at the site of a restless leg hatch frak pianese bush is

Howie

04-26-2008, 04:43 AM

copy and paste te name into the shareholders folder in the main campus tio light the ignite for a fresh start to a new twist as the old is in with the new age format in sensual gas covered wholly land fabric ties in the wall in the adjacent twist frame tweak bar gathering on the porch is one of the fabrics way ro unite the solidation of the cromwell on behalf of the new storm water run off drainage and the new word to add each time you speak a fragrance learns a new pond fron the gate way to heaven and hell cast aside the demns in the first mayor of the chosen one freaks out the old as they are near to death and they will die into earth

French horns sound nearby to gather the bigots blot for warning has come with innuendoes by the sherif careef of bobs will to die at an early stage ogf the game

fresh water rn off spillls into the drain as the fill has impervious grid lock to reinforce the truth in the community as it becomes avident that the past had shaped the outcome of today in the biotech futre lab for man ythe outcome is a shit weed handle in th dust for sake of the woman in the brothel in their sad consumption of a dream recall.

ClouD

04-28-2008, 04:21 AM

think of me jake carry me move away run sprint scream tear fall cry stop halt free feel consume

Howie

04-28-2008, 06:43 AM

apply pressure on the impact of interst in the middle game to position yourself in a way to control the middle ground as has there will be in a sense to communicate the rivalry in conjunction why the pope has gone to the streets in an effort to abandon his people in a mocking ceremony tribal instinct to read the affidavit in court over who will rule the king at the end of your pain of a conflict of interest to bloom in a flower and brighten up the room and make it better than a dull prosperous and unique aperatess from the tall order of the courts giving the

NonDualistic

04-29-2008, 11:23 AM

the sea is calm
no waves to rise
must focus conscious
for to appear

That is from about 3 minutes. Seems I must focus on something for any thought to arise. I even sat here with eyes open observing the dogs, birds and such moving out in the yard and saw no thoughts arise. just an empty seeing.

I will play with this more.

NonDualistic

04-29-2008, 04:46 PM

The Idea>
To relax and meditate until you have random thoughts in your head. No noises no interruptions I am not going to focus on any particular thought. I will not think about what I am thinking. Just write!
The draw backs are that I cannot type well and I have to keep my eyes open to do so. What I did when I reached the state of consciousness I was after was to just give a blank stare at the monitor and let the thoughts flow.
sleep it took too long to get into a hynagogia state.

[/color]

Howie, this had me contemplating all afternoon while at work.

I have written pages of material , letters to editors of local papers, and much of a 40-50 pages of "dharma" writing or notes, using much the same idea or method you outline above.
What I usually end up doing is writing and then going back and just "cleaning up" what was written. Sometimes I feel astonished at what I wrote, as if it were someone elses work I was reading. I havnt written much in the last few months, been preoccupied with other things.

Today, prompted by this thread of yours, I watched my mind all afternoon. Looked to see what arose and where it came from. Seems when I clear my mind in meditation, its not so much cleaint the mind as it is letting go of it, hence no thoughts arise.
Then I noticed that If I engage the mind and meditate on an opening
thought, that is when more arises on/from the mind.
I also noticed that when the opening thought is of a memory, or placed on some future context, its as if the flood gates open and all sorts of thoughts arise. Mostly memories and then variations off of them. Its like getting lost in a maze to follow them. Getting out means disengaging the mind and returning
to the awareness of the moment. Ones breathing, or what is seen around oneself. Very interesting and valuable observations. Much to explore here.

I have more to say, but need to dwell on it some more first.....well,

One thing was a question as to whether the thoughts arising are truly random? Even the liittle tid bits that arose in my previous post above, seemed sponsored or primed by a thought of watching to see what thoughts arise.

Howie

05-03-2008, 06:23 PM

Howie, this had me contemplating all afternoon while at work.

I have written pages of material , letters to editors of local papers, and much of a 40-50 pages of "dharma" writing or notes, using much the same idea or method you outline above.
What I usually end up doing is writing and then going back and just "cleaning up" what was written. Sometimes I feel astonished at what I wrote, as if it were someone elses work I was reading. I havnt written much in the last few months, been preoccupied with other things.

Today, prompted by this thread of yours, I watched my mind all afternoon. Looked to see what arose and where it came from. Seems when I clear my mind in meditation, its not so much cleaint the mind as it is letting go of it, hence no thoughts arise.
Then I noticed that If I engage the mind and meditate on an opening
thought, that is when more arises on/from the mind.
I also noticed that when the opening thought is of a memory, or placed on some future context, its as if the flood gates open and all sorts of thoughts arise. Mostly memories and then variations off of them. Its like getting lost in a maze to follow them. Getting out means disengaging the mind and returning
to the awareness of the moment. Ones breathing, or what is seen around oneself. Very interesting and valuable observations. Much to explore here.

I have more to say, but need to dwell on it some more first.....well,

One thing was a question as to whether the thoughts arising are truly random? Even the liittle tid bits that arose in my previous post above, seemed sponsored or primed by a thought of watching to see what thoughts arise.

Thanks for your input ND. An interesting take and thoughts on the entire concept. Sorry to respond so late. Responding late to this thread in part has some implications to your question.
Are they random thoughts? I don't rightfully know. I don't know if any thoughts are random in a pure sense of the word. One reason I only post in this journal on random occasions is because is does take a certain mind frame, for me at least.
As described in earlier posts, I have to be in a meditative state for my thoughts to "flow", as you put it. To do it otherwise and labor over thought
itself takes a more cognitive direction that I'm trying to steer away from.
Random, fleeting thoughts.

Also I too am very surprised at what is written as I go back and look at what I have posted. Though I can usually associate freely many of the written thoughts together to form some underlying thoughts and feelings.

Have you had time to dwell on your thoughts?
True thoughtless consciousness, flow and pure awareness would be an amazing step for me personally. Because I have obtained this...lack of thought on rare occasions I know what it is like but have yet found away to tap into it on my own will through meditative techniques or other methods.
At least I know it IS there to achieve - consciousness in pure form. A free mind unconditioned.

NonDualistic

05-03-2008, 07:05 PM

Have you had time to dwell on your thoughts?
True thoughtless consciousness, flow and pure awareness would be an amazing step for me personally. Because I have obtained this...lack of thought on rare occasions I know what it is like but have yet found away to tap into it on my own will through meditative techniques or other methods.
At least I know it IS there to achieve - consciousness in pure form. A free mind unconditioned.

Depends on what thoughts you are referring to I guess.

The thoughts that arise as I described above are so in tune with my inner being, or inner perception, feelings , or what have you, that there is no dwelling on those needed. Its like the words that arise are a perfect match for where I am "inside" in that moment that they arise.

If when writing I find myself dwelling on what is being written, or having to think of what words to use, I know then and there that I have lost my "meditative connection" to what is "self arising". This is the first time I have really looked at this process, or examined it, so I am just tossing this out as a first impression really, so please forgive any "choppiness" or incongruity.

Years ago I had a dream that was very powerful, that left lasting impressions. The main theme left by that dream was a thought or a concept of "thought without words". To this day I am still playing around with this, still dwelling on it.
I have found that this premise is related directly to this being able to write in the manner we are talking about. As I said earlier, when I reach a meditative calm in regards to the mind, as if I am watching it, not participating, I then reach out with a thought, no words, mainly feelings and imagery, hard to describe well off hand, but its like I just barely "kiss" the mind with this intent. It seems that this is what primes what arises in the form of words.
I realize this may be of little help to you, but thats how I describe it at the moment, off the cuff.

Also, I want to state that I have not ever had or sought to have any ordered instruction on meditative practice. I just kind of found my own way and therefore am not hung up on this or that practice or method. I spent alot of time last summer in my garden swing just being there with nature, looking without dividing or differentiating with the mind. That helped to bring about an emptiness in the mind and the beginning of being able to detatch from it, to what is culminating in me now. I'm not sure where it is leading, but I am intent of just following day by day and seeing where it goes.

If you read some of the short lined poetic sort of stuff I write that is directed in and around alot of Clouds writing, this is the sort of writing we are talking about. What I have written in the topic on "die to live" in the religion forum is also a product of this here being discussed.

Its strange, but I feel so very alive and empowered when I write in this manner. Its as if the writing is alive and this body doing the writing is only a part of its happening. Its as if that which "I am" is centered in the words arising themselves. Very interesting, very strange by comparrison to the usual.

ClouD

05-04-2008, 08:13 AM

if i were to again have sex do it feel would i such attachment my barrier these words so deceiving i breathe emotionless apathetic beyond pleasure to bliss emotion sucked to a core nothing.

It seems as if it starts out as a few words then trails off towards symbolism for me.

This meditative contemplation seems to fold into dream rapidly.

NonDualistic

05-04-2008, 08:36 AM

ClouD

05-04-2008, 08:44 AM

For me the dream seems to unfold from symbolism into the words...

That is interesting. What circumstance may differ in my meditation to yours? Perhaps therein lies a clue?

edit* i start of thinking, then enter a meditative state through conscious seperation of thoughts from mind. (in this case)

NonDualistic

05-04-2008, 09:05 PM

That is interesting. What circumstance may differ in my meditation to yours? Perhaps therein lies a clue?

edit* i start of thinking, then enter a meditative state through conscious seperation of thoughts from mind. (in this case)

:) i never really looked at what was being done as far as a meditative practice, i just found myself doing it.
As i stated above, i never have had any any ordered instruction on meditative practice. i just kind of found my own way and therefore am not hung up on this or that practice or method. i never gave any real thought, no verbal desrption to what was being done.

Looking at what is happening, the descrption i would use would be that i find myself "disengaging" from the mind to begin with. Just letting go of it.
From there it gets harder to describe......

Absence of the mind

Awareness rises

Focused inward

Emptiness, the canvas waits

Take the brush

Make the stroke

Ever so softly, ever so subtle

No words, no thought

Being, see the picture, be it

Grace the mind, wash over it

Emptiness gives way

Words arise

NonDualistic

05-12-2008, 06:06 AM

Howie,

i dont know how to adequately describe the observations i have regarding this process.

One point noticed is that the "strength" of and clarity of the words arising seems related to the "I" sense present or lack thereof.

When there is a clear notion of "I" the process seems disabled. As this notion fades the process begins to gain strength, clarity arises, and words flow.

The best example is when answering, or directing the mind towards the thoughts or questions of another individual.

Do you know what i mean?

Howie

05-12-2008, 08:17 AM

NonDualistic

05-12-2008, 11:13 AM

I'm not so sure what you mean. :P

As our ego or self - me or I.......
When our egoistic entity is an influence it hinders the clearest form of this process?

Thats basically it, but there are things here in need of further defining with this "I" sense", and its influence/relation to the process, that are so subtle that they almost defy recognition.

i will keep playing with this and observe as i do

Howie

05-16-2008, 06:10 AM

cover up the act of the bias to the emblem of balnce the theater ask the amn to noble in his secrecy to adorn those who ilist in the adjacent room to follow the hipocrites in the fallacy section of the news to report the htme the room of hope is torn in segments to cry for the good of the people who are murderd with the abandoned hope it wull cry

ND - you have made me want to try something a little different, a bit of an add on.
After my initial, abstract incoherent rendering, I am going to read what I had just wrote and write a more .....wakeful and cognizant approach.

The media is always bias. We even on an unconscious level are bias. Can it be altered? surely. It still remains. It is natural. We live in a society that tries to tamper out bias as if to have a control over it.
Making it worse?
Acknowledging our bias and then dealing with it on a heightened awareness could actually be more productive than to act as a society that would like to think that it is better than the act of bias itself.

NonDualistic

05-16-2008, 08:02 PM

This is going to be difficult to ask , a least in getting whats on my mind across, but when you have the initial spur to write down whats arising, how would you describe how the mind is focused at the time you are writing?

i have been watching myself, the mind, bothe when the writing seems to just flow and when it seems obstructed and choppy.

When it seems obstructed is when there is a presence of this notion of "I" or "me". Such seems almost in between whats arising and puttting it on paper( or the screen). It seems to want to pick and choose words, contemplate them, judge them. It just gets in the way it seems. Its like i subtly focus on "me writing", rather than just writing to the paper or screen. HArd to relate in words.

When the words flow like water in a stream, its not the least bit labored. This presence of the notion of "I" or "me" is not there to interrupt. No going back and changing anything, it all just comes right out without any thought or need to think it over. It all just flows from start to finish.
The short comments written in the R/S forum recently on the moment was that way .

A little while ago i was reading another post and a thought on a response arose to something I read. I began to write, buti found myself bogged down in actually thinking about the thoughts arising rather than just letting them come. Killed the whole process, so i quit.

Howie

05-18-2008, 06:09 AM

counterfeit enterprise awakes the appeased foriegn aid to rely heavliy on the support of otehrs to fill their successors to follow a creed of the overer flow on the

This is going to be difficult to ask , a least in getting whats on my mind across, but when you have the initial spur to write down whats arising, how would you describe how the mind is focused at the time you are writing?

The abstract journeying has been doing just that - flowing. Much like - free brain storming. NOT having a labored approach to analyzation or thought.

i have been watching myself, the mind, bothe when the writing seems to just flow and when it seems obstructed and choppy.

When it seems obstructed is when there is a presence of this notion of "I" or "me". Such seems almost in between whats arising and puttting it on paper( or the screen). It seems to want to pick and choose words, contemplate them, judge them. It just gets in the way it seems. Its like i subtly focus on "me writing", rather than just writing to the paper or screen. HArd to relate in words.

When the words flow like water in a stream, its not the least bit labored. This presence of the notion of "I" or "me" is not there to interrupt. No going back and changing anything, it all just comes right out without any thought or need to think it over. It all just flows from start to finish.
The short comments written in the R/S forum recently on the moment was that way .

A little while ago i was reading another post and a thought on a response arose to something I read. I began to write, buti found myself bogged down in actually thinking about the thoughts arising rather than just letting them come. Killed the whole process, so i quit.

When your thought processes have become obstructed have you been able to break free of that? If you can break free of this "bogged down" way of thinking it may become easier over time.
Thought is natural. It is natural ongoing process that is relevant because it is there. It may not necessarily have relevance until it is put into context. So this free way off writing may give you an approach to write down your thoughts in a manor that lets your subconscious work freely and you could then go back and tweak those thoughts more analytically.. maybe?

It seems to me what you have been writing in the R & S Forum has a lot of subtenancy, however it is vague to most of us but probably not to you. It could be no other way in that form. But you could take from that the unobstructed thoughts and then convey them more concisely. That is if you find it it something to convey.
Some of the stuff I have written in this journal has, after rereading it just seemed like random thoughts. That or I just had not been able to extract anything from it at the time. The opposite of that would be the post about bias. After clearing my head and reading that over it seemed very clear what my thoughts were conveying. Enough so that I wanted to make a post about it.

In your efforts, are you trying to convey any particular thing or are you just trying to find an unobstructed way of thought? ~ OR something else.

NonDualistic

05-18-2008, 07:47 AM

When your thought processes have become obstructed have you been able to break free of that? If you can break free of this "bogged down" way of thinking it may become easier over time.

What is being found is that if the process is started , or starts itself for all intents and purposes, and the "i" obstruction enters in and disrupts it, then there is a good chance that by clearing the mind and refocusing on just whats arising "i" can get back into "the groove" and continue. Such is becomeing more so all the time with practice
However, in many cases, when this refocusing on the "i" occurs, what has been arising to be written, is already finished, or done being conveyed. This in itself seems to be saying something.

Thought is natural. It is natural ongoing process that is relevant because it is there. It may not necessarily have relevance until it is put into context. So this free way off writing may give you an approach to write down your thoughts in a manor that lets your subconscious work freely and you could then go back and tweak those thoughts more analytically.. maybe?

It seems to me what you have been writing in the R & S Forum has a lot of subtenancy, however it is vague to most of us but probably not to you. It could be no other way in that form. But you could take from that the unobstructed thoughts and then convey them more concisely. That is if you find it it something to convey.

Here is an interesting observation. I find that this process , with "me" , seems to have its beginnings in either a question that arises in the back of the mind, or with a question of another. Sometimes, it starts when "i" am simply in meditation over my own inner perceptions, perceptions which usually are not involving words, but visualizations. From there the words to be written just begin to flow. The sooner I write them down the easier it is to mainain the presence of the moment and not get in the way of the words arising. Usually when I wait a few minutes, what was arising is lost.

On rare occasion, i have gone back and explained what was written. i seldom do this though. For me, and a few others, what is said is quite clear in the metaphorical format presented. No tweaking needed.
Most of the time when i explain in terms more familiar to those not seeing anything in it to begin with, all that ensues is argumentative discussion. Those others seem to be pushed farther away from understanding than they otherwise would have been if no explanation were given.
This is what "my intuition" is telling me anyhow.

Some of the stuff I have written in this journal has, after rereading it just seemed like random thoughts. That or I just had not been able to extract anything from it at the time. The opposite of that would be the post about bias. After clearing my head and reading that over it seemed very clear what my thoughts were conveying. Enough so that I wanted to make a post about it.

That is interesting in how such presents itself to you and how it presents itself to me. There doesnt seem to be anything truly random in what comes to me, there always seem to be an initial meaning to it. However, upon re-reading what is written, i sometimes find multiple layers of meaning embedded within the writing. There seems to be depth beyond what started, or prompted the writing. Depth notiiced when analyzed with the conscious mind.

I think what you and i are experiencing is the same thing, yet it is interesting in the differences that arise in the specifics of how each of us works with what shows up, and what form that which shows up takes, as in its initial arrangement.
The main difference seem in that what you are seeing arise to you is truly random thoughts, and i am seeing thoughts that have a catalyst.

Do you think you could try and open your meditation to a catalyst of sorts? I mean, once your mind is cleared, maintain that clarity and then let a question brush over the mind, and see if anything arises to that question, And then see if that which arises makes any sense in relation to that question.

In your efforts, are you trying to convey any particular thing or are you just trying to find an unobstructed way of thought? ~ OR something else.

I do not really have an agenda as to conveying anything in particular. I seem to be moving from one point to another without doing anything but following the flow itself.

I have been experimenting with letting go of the "i" sense, the ego self, if that says anything. To me, "i" , "me" , mine" are all obstructions to a level of clarity which transcends the mind. Such is reaching past knowledge into pure awareness. Such an endeavor itself seems to be able to be likened to the same process of this writing we are discussing. It is all quite interesting, and getting more interesting all the time.

Howie

05-19-2008, 05:24 AM

I realize now where you are coming from NonDualistic. Having an issue, problem, or questioned posed before you use this approach in any form.

Would the question be premeditated or something that arises out of thought prior to the process?
Using a question for a catalyst and going on to use this form of free flowing thought could be very productive.

NonDualistic

05-19-2008, 05:57 AM

Would the question be premeditated or something that arises out of thought prior to the process?

I have seen it happen both ways. From my observations, the most powerful and free flowing experiences are the ones that are not premeditated., IE when I simple wander the DV forums and run across a question that seems to "jump out" at me.

Using a question for a catalyst and going on to use this form of free flowing thought could be very productive.

That why I was wondering if you would be interested in giving this approach a try? I would be interested in what you find.

Howie

05-19-2008, 06:38 PM

That why I was wondering if you would be interested in giving this approach a try? I would be interested in what you find.

Yes I would. Sorry it took ten posts for me to get where you were coming form. :P

IE when I simple wander the DV forums and run across a question that seems to "jump out" at me.

I will try just that.

Derived from the thraed - What do you think is the best form of government?

Government meant in any term as control in one form or another.
Representing people
people representing
People cannot handle power making governments fail and people also cannot handle themselves making a non governmental state illconcievalbe. Making it so that there is no perfect from of government because a government is a reflection of people in either side of the fence you are on. People are flawed, greedy, ignorant or dense. Keep the people dense and they are easy to control while the repressive government wallows in it's own bed of shit. Let the people be educated and they cannot handle prosperity, they wallow in their own self made sad tale of lies.

NonDualistic

05-19-2008, 07:40 PM

Yes I would. Sorry it took ten posts for me to get where you were coming form. :P

Sometimes it takes 10 posts for me to see where it is i am going myself. This whole topic has become quite interesting for me, and the more conversation the more i see.

I will try just that.

Derived from the thraed - What do you think is the best form of government?

Government meant in any term as control in one form or another.
Representing people
people representing
People cannot handle power making governments fail and people also cannot handle themselves making a non governmental state illconcievalbe. Making it so that there is no perfect from of government because a government is a reflection of people in either side of the fence you are on. People are flawed, greedy, ignorant or dense. Keep the people dense and they are easy to control while the repressive government wallows in it's own bed of shit. Let the people be educated and they cannot handle prosperity, they wallow in their own self made sad tale of lies.

Any new observations?