Assasination of Bush

[dreamscape]

Now there are a lot of people out there who hate Bush or love him. However, wer and i believe that he will be assasinated in the near future. This can all be read in a prophecy written in hebrew. I forgot the Url thow

[Death-Wuad]

and all presidents ever elected on a year ending with 0 have had an attempt on their life, it'd be pretty weird if that happened

[Seeker]

Moved to the Lounge.

Nah, I don't think he will.

As to thinking he deserves it, nobody deserved to die that way.

[Umbrasquall]

Originally posted by Death-Wuad
and all presidents ever elected on a year ending with 0 have had an attempt on their life, it'd be pretty weird if that happened
I remember hearing about that. It is weird. We'll just have to wait and see.

[A Lost Soul]

No one deserves it.

By the way, nice Linsner avatar Specialedd. :)

[baconmastermind]

Are you insane? Assasinating Bush would bring so much sympathy to the Republicans, and Dick Cheney would be president (he's 1000 times smarter than Bush, and he's evil).

Plus, you would be just as bad as Bush if you assasinated him.

[jacobo]

haha "more smarter." :tongue:

i don't think bush will be assassinated. every president has an angry opposition… nothing new.

[O'nus]

Yup.. said it once, I will say it again:

Marionettes can sure be annoying, and yeah, sometimes I just want to slap them away too.

*Coughs*

[Vladimirn]

Are you thinking of the Iraq-war?
When you belive that he will be assasinated? :?

Don't take life when you can't give it.

[Lowercase Society]

This is going to turn into a political discussion, and everyone should know our position on that one. I'm moving it to philosophy.

[Funkymonkey]

you will have the secret service onto this site befor long :-P my teacer was telling me one of her students who was very clever at politics for a joke staged a joke website on a fake plot to kill the president, the secret service got involved, he is not allowed to ever go to the USA even tho he was only joking :o

[Vladimirn]

Secret service is working hard.... :-P

[Truthbearer]

Originally posted by Funkymonkey
you will have the secret service onto this site befor long :-P my teacer was telling me one of her students who was very clever at politics for a joke staged a joke website on a fake plot to kill the president, the secret service got involved, he is not allowed to ever go to the USA even tho he was only joking :o

Wow! That's insane...

I don't think that anyone here should have the power to decide the life of death of any human being. I do think he is an ass and hate his guts, but do not wish him death...

[Death-Wuad]

wow... the votes are split evenly. just like the U.S. population, except gore was a bit more popular :-P

[dreamscape]

I don't wish death on him or anybody I just here all sorts of people talking about it.

[Truthbearer]

Originally posted by Death-Wuad
wow... the votes are split evenly. just like the U.S. population, except gore was a bit more popular :-P

Ok, I just made them uneven...you are welcome :D

[Daeraug]

For all his fault, I do not wish death upon him. He says said some horrble things to slight certain groups of soldiers in the military. He probably even means well in his actions, but it doesn't always turns out that way.

Luckily, we live in the country and we are able to change the president every four years, if we chose to.

[Truthbearer]

God, I hope they do...

Voting Bush into another term would really really be a stupid thing to do...

[Funkymonkey]

maybe he has made some bad decisions and he is a bit of an ass at times, but doesnt mean he should be killed.

[WerBurN]

bush = :thumbup:

[Alric]

Personlly I don't see why people hate him so much. Hes not that bad of a guy. I think a lot of people are just acting childish with this election. They didn't want him to win so they got all mad, and cry over losing last time. No offence to people who have vaild reasons, but there are a lot who are just stupid.

Not likeing the war is a vaild point. Thinking he lied because you think he has fun warring people is stupid. And yea there is a lot of people who use the second arguement for a reason they dont want him as president, which is why I really dont like Kerry.

[baconmastermind]

he didn't even win the last election though.

[Alric]

Yes he did.

[Joseph_Stalin]

Do you people seriously want Kerry as president? I cannot figure that guy out... He'll probably lose anyway, due to nader.

Go Hotdogs!

[daydreamer]

Originally posted by A Lost Soul
No one deserves it.

. :)
true, no one deserves to die
he just needs someone to beat the sh*t out of him

[Umbrasquall]

Originally posted by Joseph_Stalin
Do you people seriously want Kerry as president? I cannot figure that guy out... He'll probably lose anyway, due to nader.

Go Hotdogs!
Heh. Nadar's controlled the last election and he'll do it again. I personally think Kerry's chances aren't that good.

[Joseph_Stalin]

Nadar probably gets good money just to run for president (by the other candidates). In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he jumped in front of Bush during an assasination to protect his own financial interests....

[Truthbearer]

It is all as it is said in Waking Life: They are two sides of the same coin, you can either choose the puppet on the left or the one in the right, but that fact is you are really not making much of a choice...

None of the candidates will do what is needed, none will take us where we need to go. The outcome, although different in the details, is going to be quintessencially the same...

[baconmastermind]

Check this out:
www.bushgame.com (http://www.bushgame.com)

[A Lost Soul]

Originally posted by Truthbearer
None of the candidates will do what is needed, none will take us where we need to go. The outcome, although different in the details, is going to be quintessencially the same...
You bring up an interesting point. Why is it that American's continue to search for the "One"? For some reason, we think that each president we elect will be the Great Hero to lead us into some golden age where life is grand. That isn't true, nor will it ever be true.

The government isn't "by the people, for the people" anymore. Now it's "by the rich, for themselves". I would be surprised if there is even one human being in our government structure right now who actually gives a damn what happens to the real people in this country.

[WerBurN]

then why not become rich?

[Alric]

I think most do care. Everyone thinks different though, so while they do what they think is best, it might not always be the same as you. I don't think anyone really believes the president is going to lead us into a golden age. Though some times I think people expect to much. A president can only do so much. People seem to always blame the president when half the time the stuff is out of his control.

[Truthbearer]

Originally posted by A Lost Soul
You bring up an interesting point. Why is it that American's continue to search for the \"One\"? For some reason, we think that each president we elect will be the Great Hero to lead us into some golden age where life is grand. That isn't true, nor will it ever be true. *

The government isn't \"by the people, for the people\" anymore. Now it's \"by the rich, for themselves\". I would be surprised if there is even one human being in our government structure right now who actually gives a damn what happens to the real people in this country.
Exactly, the government is now completely out of control. Leaders were supposed to represent the views of the masses, now they only represent their own desires and interests. There is no hope for politics in the world unless the people that govern do it not because of money, power, fame or any other personal interest, but instead choose to make their country a better one, to give a better life to the people.

It pisses me off when we go to wars that the people do not want, for it is our money that pays for the destruction and the rebuilding of that country, and it is our people that pay with their lives the price of some political abstract ideology. I would love to see Bush himself going to fight in a war with the same effusiveness that he declares it.

Alric, I all can tell you is this: If the government invested half the money they invest trying to conquer the world, in the people themselves this would be a much better world. Believe US would become richer beyond belief, and there would be no need for poverty. If the government was for the people, then the people would need not suffer...

[Alric]

Some people are against the war, however there are tons who while never want to see war support the decision to do it. I am one of them and I can tell you now I didn't make any money off it. To say that is the reason is irresponsible.

[A Lost Soul]

Originally posted by WerBurN+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(WerBurN)</div>then why not become rich?[/b]
Because it's just so easy to get rich in this country! And it's easiest in the state of Maine! What would be the fun in that?

Maybe I can. When I was little, I did have a passing thought to go into business as an assassin. Or I could find the mob and join them! Or perform a sexual innuendo on a cigar for the president. Or I could simply go to jail where for the rest of my life I'd have three squares a day, cable tv, a library, computer, open gym, heated pool, etc, etc. No wonder our prisons are overcrowded.

Anyway, I'm getting away from the topic here.

<!--QuoteBegin-Truthbearer
It pisses me off when we go to wars that the people do not want, for it is our money that pays for the destruction and the rebuilding of that country, and it is our people that pay with their lives the price of some political abstract ideology. I would love to see Bush himself going to fight in a war with the same effusiveness that he declares it.
And if I had a dime for every time I said that myself, I wouldn't have to worry about money ever again. :P I despise that Bush is splitting up families, sending whole families to war (anyone read about the couple who were forced to leave behind their two small children? Nice, huh?). All for what? Yes, Iraq may have needed an aenema. It certainly got one. So why is the fighting still going on? Why are our soldiers still dying? These soldiers are younger than I am for crissakes! It's not fair.

I want to see Bush pick up a gun and go fight his own damn battle. He isn't thinking about the waste of human life he's causing. He isn't thinking about the American people or our "security". Think about this: in the event of a massive world-destructive event (think WW3 here), who will be sheltered and protected? The government. Will they be thinking about the people? Nope. Apparently they feel that they are the shining hope for humanity in a post-apocalyptic world.

Along the same line of thought: I wanted to see Bush down there with the rescue workers who were digging survivors from what remained of the World Trade Center. He went down there and did nothing. So he gave a pretty speech. Big deal. He didn't even pick up a fucking shovel! Had I been president, you bet your asses I would have been down there, digging with all my heart. I would have told my vice to take over for a while; I would be busy with something far more important than politics at that moment. I would have been hugging the families of the lost, and mourning with them. Those are my people.

And I am so ranting. That's what happens when I get tired. Sorry about that guys. :oops:

[wer]

Hell ya. He's an asshole and is reponsible for thousands of deaths. He's a crazy ass to me.

[Alric]

Ok I am not trying to be rude because this is kind of a sensitive topic but its not his fault if any families are split up. If you join the army its your job to fight, no one forces you to join the army so its your own choice. If you decided to join and are sent into war, its no ones fault but your own.

You have a valid reason to be against the war however, you can even say they are doing a bad job if you want, but you can't blame him for who is sent there.

In a case of massive world destruction, it is very important to keep a working government. Believe it or not, that is what is best for everyone. Though I am sure they would try and save as many people as they can, which they couldn't help anyone if they where dead.

[Daeraug]

If anyone has a legitimate thing to say about us going to war, would be the ones who were sent over there. I was one of the soldiers that gave Sadam the aenema. (nice expression, sis) I believe that it was worth while to help those people, I saw the way they were forced to live. Was the way the information handed proper, probably not, but this was a long time in coming. I don't know whether the whole thing was a good idea, but I like to believe that some good came out of it, even though it wasn't handled the greatest.

As for the people getting rich in this country, that does make me sick. There are people out there playing a game, making millions. While a soldier dies on the battlefield for poverty level pay.

[A Lost Soul]

Originally posted by Alric
You have a valid reason to be against the war however, you can even say they are doing a bad job if you want, but you can't blame him for who is sent there.
You are absolutely right. I said that because, to me, it seems like he's using humans in a great assembly line ending in death. Yeah, war isn't pretty or fair but it just seems to me that he's wasting lives as though they were quarters being stuffed in a slot machine.

I could be wrong in this, but isn't there a law against sending families off to war together?

[Alric]

Congress voted for the war too. I really don't believe anyone wants to see anyone die. I really don't see where you get that from. You can make an arguement that the didn't have a good plan for after the war, or they overestimated themself, but making a mistake is hardly "wasting lives as though they were quarters being stuffed in a slot machine."

[Truthbearer]

It's not about the fact that they made military inteligence mistakes, it is about what it is all about. What business did the U.S. have sending troop to a foreign country half around the world to "liberate" its people?

Am I mistaken or isn't that a job for the UNITED NATIONS????????

U.S doesn't have a god given right to "free" the world, and although some good may have come out of it, I do believe it was injustified. Thousands of Iraquies, some just innocent civilians, died, and all for overthrowing an ideology, an abstract concept.

A dictatorship like that is an awful thing, but it is up to the people themselves to revolt. If they are unable to do so, and enough express that they wish to discard their government to the UN, then this organism would be in charge of assisting them.

The fact that the U.S. is the most powerful nation in the world does not make it in charge of ruling it and being able to threaten whoever they wish, just because....

[Alric]

They made a peace treaty with us saying they would get rid of all their weapons of mass destructions during the last war. They didn't or hid the fact that they did and we warned them many times. That is what gives us the right to attack them.

The UN wouldn't have helped them because sadam bribed a ton of them. Thats why we had such a hard time getting people to help us, none of them want to because they where all making money.

Its really hard to revolt in places when you can be dragged out of your house and murdered if you even make a joke about the leader of the country. Sadam killed tons of people its no "abstract concept".

[Truthbearer]

1. Where are your weapons of mass destruction now? That was just an excuse to invade the country without having any particular reason to do so

2. Do you know that Saddam bribed member of the U.N for a fact, or is it mere speculation and hearsay?

3. I am not talking about Iraq in particular when I say that we are liberating them from an abstract concept. That is why I said that dictatorships like Saddam's are a terrible thing. Remember the domino effect and the cold war with the USSR? That is what I mean with "abstract concept".

4. Regarding how hard it is to revolt: I know it is not an easy task, but a rather hard and risky one. The problem is: Who decides that these people are miserable and must be liberated? We can assume, but we really cannot channel the desire of the people like that...

All I am saying is that the U.S has a history of meddling in other people's business. If you have seen Bowling for Columbine they list most of them there in a mind blowing segment...

I also don't only mean this stuff for the U.S. only. I would be saying the same thing if any other country of the world did the same. Let people be, help them when they ask, but please don't try to control the world...

[Alric]

A lot shipped over the boarder. Chances are a lot is buried some where. They did find that one they tried to use on our troops, was only one shell but it shows the stuff is around some where. Plus the fact that they found tons of other illegal weapons, which while are not WMDs are still breaking the treaty they had with us, and reason enough to attack.

They are looking into the bribing now. I think they already know some of the people who took bribes, and chances are there are more. Plus we found weapons of from the other countries who were selling them to iraq while saying they didnt.

With the cold war there was a vaild concern with the dangers that come with the spread of communism.

The people can't ask for help because they get killed when they do. Except for the people who fleed out of the country, all who which say its really bad and we should help them. They lived there, they saw what happened, if they tell us he needs to be stopped why shouldn't we listen to them? Because they don't count since they don't live there anymore?

[Death-Wuad]

my big problem with Bush is his arrogance, especially when he said "either you're with us, or you're against us". then he gets all whiney and bitchey when france doesnt decide to fight, but its not france's fight, nobody ever did squat to them.

did any of you guys see that special on HBO with Lewis Black "Black on Broadway". i remember him saying how annoying the U.S. government was, like how they always claim to be the greatest country in the world- its like an annoying guy at the office that goes around saying "without me, you're all f*cked!"

[Alric]

Might not be the greatest but we are the biggest. I don't think any like france. Its not even because they didn't want to fight but they are are against us in other stuff.

[Truthbearer]

1. I am not going to argue this point any further, as it is easy to say that they haven't found any, yet, but there are still hidden somewhere. Even if they do find them, what gives the U.S. that right to create such a treaty? Shouldn't the United Nations be the ones that should have intervened during the Gulf War too? The U.S only intervened due to its petroleum based alliances.

Also, does the fact that Iraq has some illegal weapons justify the death of thousands of civilians?

2. If you believe the United Nations is so corrupted, then do you believe the U.S(of all countries) should suddenly take its place or just pass right over it? Or would it be much more productive and logical to just renew it's corrupt members after further investigation?

3. What were the "valid concerns" of communism? It is still a ideological war, of "abstract concepts". What about the domino effect policy inforced in Vietnam?

4. I know this is perhaps the hardest of all points and you may be right about many things. Those that leave obviously leave because they hate it. Some that stay might like it(the minority I admit). The problem doesn't lie as if they deserve to be freed, or if the want to, but it comes back to: Why must we think that we are the ones that have to do this???? Why do we think that we represent all the good in the world and are the super heroes that will save everyone from everything???(not only applicable for the U.S, but any nation with this misconception)

[Daeraug]

I'll show you some of what I saw.

http://home.elp.rr.com/daeraug/pictures/iraqilife3.jpg
http://home.elp.rr.com/daeraug/pictures/IRAQ6.JPG
http://home.elp.rr.com/daeraug/pictures/HIMTT.JPG

The last picture is SSG. Austin giving a child a MRE because he was hungry. I watched children running around naked and starved. I saw the devastation that Sadam brought onto his people. Others may be content with watching some one waste away because they have nothing. I cannot. I may not agree with everything that happens in war. War is ugly, its vulgar, and I hate to ever take the life of another, but sometimes it is necissary. I bare scars both physical and emotional from that experience, things that will haunt me to my dying day. I do so, so others don't have, too. It's not up to the US to police the world, sometimes we even step in where we best shouldn't, but at least we are trying to help others. Other countries can sit back, and watch genocide happen. We won't. I thank the Brits, Aussies, Koreans, and other countries that I met over there for the help.

Yes, some civilians died, but be sure some of those were terrorist hide among them and would shoot or blow themselves up. I almost shot a man because he failed to follow my directions. I was in the process of pulling my trigger, when he realised that I was going to shoot him and stopped. Which is the greater evil though, letting a man destroy his people, or helping them even though some may die?

I may not like President Bush, but he is my Commander and Chief. He gave an order, I followed it. He may have had other concerns, but we knew that we could try to help these people while we were there.

Strenth in Honor!

[Truthbearer]

Wow, it is when someone who actually was there expresses his opinion and tells you how things were like, that you truly see the forest for the trees. You make a good point, in the end the U.S. is ultimately helping out, in this case in particular, no matter what ulterior motives they might have. Although as you said it best, it might not be up to them which in the end is what bothers me. That way you put it(being a witness of it all) if people were really suffering from starvation and such, then perhaps to some extent it was worth it. I have to be honest and tell you that helping these people was not the principal purpose of this war, but its nice to see that some good has come from it.

It just really pisses me off to see the devastation and the brutality that is brought by someone who doesn't have to live that. It wonder how many wars there would be if those war kings that use to exist(leaders that went into battle themselves) still existed. Perhaps we wouldn't be so hasty into going in to war.

There are a lot of things to take into account for this and any other war. The motives, the positive, the humanity, the brutality, foreign policies, power abuse, etc. that ends up making everything such a intricate mess. I wish it was all just about "Are the positive consequences of this war enough to justify the negative ones? Or should things be better left alone?

Finally, I would like to say that I really do admire you Daeraug, and, although the governments intentions and proceedings(which I am against) might not be the same as yours(you represent the human factor of it all), it is an honorable thing you do and I have a great admiration for your job. You are at Bush's service, you must do as he commands, but the fact that you have the best of intentions and really wish to help the world is something worth praise...

[Daeraug]

Thank you, Truthbearer. You do me a great honor with your words.

[Death-Wuad]

i understand the hopes that we have when we go to war, but i must agree it is a truly terrible thing to be a part of (for some of us at least). and if the draft ever is reinstated (i dont know much about whats happening with that idea) i'd find myself skipping town in a heartbeat. i'd rather live my life on the run than fight for other people's problems. You can call me a coward if you wish, or you can call everybody else heroes and leave me out of it :? .

[Truthbearer]

I understand your point too, Death Wuad, I know that I personally wouldn't like to fight a war that I don't believe in. But I would like to think that if the day ever comes when there is a war that I relate to, a war where I must fight for my beliefs, I will do the same as Daeraug is doing. I will rise to the occasion and look to be one of the heroes that save what I feel should be saved...

That also answers the last statement, you are not a coward for not wanting to fight another man's war, but those that do, for the reason that they do it, are heroes...

[Daeraug]

Death-Wuad, do not think you are a coward for not wanting to go to war. It's not for everyone, and I do not agree with the draft either. The army should be volunteer only. The military isn't for everyone, everyone has different paths in life. I do not believe that if one doesn't want to do military service, then that is fine.

[GestaltAlteration]

Heh I love how so many people LOVE to show their prjiduce(sp) against bush.. yes everyone hates him, he is evil...... Heh, I find that halarious,

The news is so incredibly slanted against him its no wonder everyone gets this incredibly evil view, but I still support him. No I dont agree with alot of things, but as the president of the united states why must we so openly hate him? I look in these profiles and such sayingthey want to "burn bush" and all the democrats changing anything remotly good into bad.

From what I saw these suffering people were librated from a dictator, the one we should be showing our disgust twords, working to prevent 9/11 attacks in the future, I may to also be unaware of all the facts but I am SICK AND TIRED of all this bitching. show your dislike for him, Sure! but from what I see people think everyone thinks that he is horrible so they say it as if everyone agrees.

Just watch the news.. I challange you to COUNT the slants.

(P.S. we were mad that france dident help us is because we helped them in a fight that wasent exactly ours, so why not they help us?..)

On the other side... The war should be over now, the deaths arent worth it anymore I think and its started to get ridiculous.(though the end date is near) Lets give them back their country and leave them, one day they will realise the help we've done... but bush dose have his flaws... but i still think his positive is above that

[Daeraug]

Originally posted by GestaltAlteration

On the other side... The war should be over now, the deaths arent worth it anymore I think and its started to get ridiculous.(though the end date is near) Lets give them back their country and leave them, one day they will realise the help we've done... but bush dose have his flaws... but *i still think his positive is above that

If you think the end is near you are sadly mistaken. We are still sending troops over there. I may even end up going there again. That is a strong possiblility.

As for Bush, I don't hate him, but I do disagree with him on a few points, other than the war. He speaks openly about my religion, saying that because I am wiccan that I do not deserve the rights that other soldiers have.

"I am committed to the First Amendment principles of religious freedom, tolerance, and diversity. Whether Mormon, Methodist, Jewish, or Muslim, Americans should be able to participate in their constitutional free exercise of religion. I do not think witchcraft is a religion, and I do not think it is in any way appropriate for the U.S. military to promote it."
~President Bush

There's President Bush's own words. Sounds a bit like double talk.

And a lot of people here aren't whining. They have valid points.

[Umbrasquall]

Yay Truth! Looking on the bright side of things! Good for you! :)

[baconmastermind]

What about the economy? Bush turned our nations greatest surplus into our greatest deficit. And his policies have lost more jobs than any other administration since the Great Depression.

[Umbrasquall]

Originally posted by GestaltAlteration
On the other side... The war should be over now, the deaths arent worth it anymore I think and its started to get ridiculous.(though the end date is near) Lets give them back their country and leave them, one day they will realise the help we've done... but bush dose have his flaws... but *i still think his positive is above that
Well the war has already been officially 'over' for quite a while now. But more deaths have occurred after then during the war.

The problem with pulling out is, well, Bush CAN'T. Without risking backlash from the pro-war conservatives as well as endangering his integrity. You have to understand that in order to save face Bush can't admit defeat. Iraq reconstruction is far from over and there's no way Bush'll risk pulling an Afghanistan again. Plus, consider the state Iraq will be left in if the U.S. pulls out now. There are still regional instabilities and powerful factions still loyal to Sadaam's regime, who won't hesititate to put the country right back to it's original, pre-intervention state.

Above all it's true Bush has made some good policies that get ignored, but the reason why so many people are against him is not all because of a biased media. If a president does good in office, then the people will respect him. Bush's screwed up too many times, in addition to the economical slump attributed to his inaugration (not entirely his fault, but the people never pass by a scapegoat, look at Hoover in the early 30s).

[Alric]

It seems like a huge part of it goes down party lines. Which is why you have like 40% thinks hes the worse president ever, 40% who thinks hes a great one, then like 20% who are some where in between.

Can tell by looking at things like the economy, it wasn't doing great before but no one agrees on it anymore. A ton will say its still horrible, but then a ton would say its doing pretty good and a lot better than before.

[baconmastermind]

The US invasion has pretty much become Vietnam in the desert.

[Alric]

Its nothing like vietnam.

[Shwang_Shwinga]

I dont know what to think of the president. I mean, there are two sides to the story of how the war got started, and only one of them can be true. To be honest though, even if I did like Bush, so many people hate him that I would be afraid to share my opinion because society may not accept someone different.

Thats just how the world spins though.

And that guy who started the poll hates Xbox! He must die! :mad: :finger:

Plus this is like Vietnam. I mean, have you not heard that either president elected, they will try to reinstitute the draft? Well, because I am an only child, they cant draft me because by order of law, ya gotta have one kid left to continue the family name... :D :wink: :banana:

[Umbrasquall]

Originally posted by Shwang_Shwinga
Well, because I am an only child, they cant draft me because by order of law, ya gotta have one kid left to continue the family name... :D *:wink: *:banana:
Are you serious? I never heard of this policy before.

[Alric]

I never heard the president say he wanted to do the draft anyone.

[baconmastermind]

Originally posted by Alric
Its nothing like vietnam.

Explain.

[Alric]

Can't just say any war we ever have is like vietnam. First off vietnam lasted a long time, like 10-20 years, we just went to iraq though. Second off we had like twice as many troops in there at one time as we do now, added with the fact that we where there for way longer its more like we sent over 10 times the troops there than we using now. Since its a lot smaller only a fraction of the people are dieing compared to then. We have a clear goal in this war while vietnam was kind of pointless. Vietnam was a pain to get supplys to our troop because of where it was, now its very easy to get supplys to our troops since we control nearly everything. Which brings up the fact that we already won the war its mostly a guerrilla type battles from small spread out groups, while in vietnam they had like a million people to attack us with.

So is it anything like vietnam? I don't really think so. Maybe you can explain how they are alike though.

[Kaniaz]

Will bush be killed? 'Perhaps' is the best anwser I can give.

[baconmastermind]

http://www.ericblumrich.com/gta.html

[Umbrasquall]

Sure I guess I’ll point out some similarities. First of all, on your point about lack of focus in Vietnam is untrue. If anything our goals of eliminating terrorism and oppression now is even more subjective then the foreign policy goals of containment during the 60s. I don’t know if you listen to the new or radio, but the word ‘Vietnam’ is gaining more ground in the media everyday. Here’s why:

Alric, the similarities reside not in quantity of time and troops sent but in quality of the U.S. mindset and overconfidence. Consider Iraq a ‘smaller’ Vietnam if you will.

In the 60s, there were warnings by several sources to not underestimate the resources and determination of the communist enemies. Now there were several administrations before the war that warned of extent of control and power of the insurgents. Overconfidence extended projected period of conflict in both cases.

In the 60s America firmly believed in their own power. Including it’s undeniable control over what they considered the most important aspect of modern warfare – the sky. Forty years later, exact same position: We get ‘shock and awe’. An identical unwavering confidence in our superiority. Unfortunately a delocalized war in both cases heralded the necessary of increasing troop counts the failure of such a policy. A guerilla war as you pointed out in both cases is exactly why Vietnam is like Iraq. It’s hard for U.S. troops to fight asymmetrical warfare; this is why combat dragged on way longer than expected in both cases.

In the 60s, the Vietnam War diverted resources toward international locations. Losses in life and an increasing deficit turned the public against Lyndon B. Johnson. If you taken U.S. history you would know about his failed economic policy the Great Society. The reason why he couldn't provide for the poor like he campaigned was because there was no room for both 'guns and bread' in the economy. Now, an increasing war budget and losses of American soldiers are turning more and more people against Bush.

Further, Iraqization and the similarly coined term in the 60s, Vietnamization, advocate the same policies. Establishing American standards in enemy territory.

Now, as president struggles with his situation now, desperately looking for foreign military aid, same as in the 60s, poll results continue to yield more and more negative for Bush.

You could probably say that there are some differences, but I think those are just superficial figures. The U.S. had never fully learned their lesson from Vietnam.

[Daeraug]

Another point is that in Vietnam, soldiers came back to a country that hated them. While I came back to a country for the most part welcomed me back, with only a select few actually hating me for what I've done.

[Alric]

Well during the war part we where right, we easily beat them. Infact we still easily beat anyone who shows up. The problem is every once in awhile a guy will catch someone off guard and kill like 2 or 3 people.

If you want to say its like vietnam because we underestimated them, then I don't really have a problem with that. But when you say it "has become vietnam" it gives the idea thats its a lot worse than it really is, and I don't think that is really fair. I don't think you can really compare like 60,000 deaths to 800.

[Umbrasquall]

It's a bit of a misunderstanding then. It's hard to say, but I hope the U.S. will be careful of proceedings on the global arena.

[Joseph_Stalin]

Originally posted by Shwang_Shwinga
Plus this is like Vietnam. I mean, have you not heard that either president elected, they will try to reinstitute the draft? Well, because I am an only child, they cant draft me because by order of law, ya gotta have one kid left to continue the family name...

You can only be exempt from military drafts with the "only son" rule if say, your father died and he had a military carreer. It has to be immediate family though.

I geuss they figure your dad (or mom) is still alive, so they can pop out a few more children to "replace" you. Unlikely morally, but...

[Shwang_Shwinga]

NO WAY!!!! We're bankrupt, so I doubt they'd try to replace me. After all, I consume about half of the money through food and rabies shots and electric bills (which I am whittling away at right now). They love me, but they dont love having no cash. :roll:

Well, I dont have that long before they draft me.

Dammit, sometimes I hate democracy, especially because the system is so currupt.

:mad: :finger:

"If you think the world is so perfect, you haven't lived in a middle class society."

[Joseph_Stalin]

Totally true. The middle class is often thought by more ignorant people as "a good position" or "just enough", but in reality we are the ones that pay most of the tax, are affected by all the bullshit, etc. etc.

[Peaceful Mind]

NO! Nobody deserves to die!

[wer]

All I ask from you is to spend the next 4,000 years, or no, the next 4,000 hours, to help our country. Thats all I asked, the next 4,000 hours.

Bush said that in a public speach. I feel that while bush is in office, he's retarded anough to blow us up. He's pretty damn stupid to me.

[toomanypossibilities]

Treason.

If we could prove for 100% sure that war with Iraq was on the agenda even before he was elected, then fucking rights he should be put to death. Not assasinated. Bush and his administration should be put on trial, and if convicted put to death.

Treason.

Lying about WoMD and using American citizens post 9/11 fear to convince them that Iraq is an imminent danger ..... thats a betrayal of trust.

Treason.


The ironic thing about this whole 'war on terror' is that the White House has created more enemies by going to war with Iraq than the USA ever had before they went in.

[Alric]

Thats not true. We have made no enemies by going to war, the ones who hated us already did before, and the ones that liked us still do. People just use it as a reason but they always hated us.

There is no doubt in my mind that the war wasn't planned. I don't know where anyone get any ideas like that. He also has a valid reasons to go to war and none of them where based on fear.

[toomanypossibilities]

Why exactly did the USA shift its focus from the Taliban to Iraq?
OIL.
and if you say oil was not on the agenda before bush came into power, i'd just have to call you an idiot. I mean... the whole Bush family are oil tycoons.

Normally I would debate more with you, but I just don't have the patience for it anymore.

Here's an idea. Read 'The five biggest lies Bush told us about iraq'

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1583226443/qid=1086243250/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-0180108-8139831?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

this might help too: watch an international news station (BBC), screw CNN.


Hopefully Farenheight 9/11 comes out before the election.

[Alric]

How about you just name them, I am not going to waste any money buying a book from a bush basher. As for Fahrenheit 9/11, I hope you are not taking any of it as fact as the movie is fiction and he just made up most of the stuff to bash bush, and that is fact not my opinion.

[toomanypossibilities]

http://www.house.gov/reform/min/features/i..._on_the_record/ (http://www.house.gov/reform/min/features/iraq_on_the_record/)
Read away.
(I don't 100% agree with all of there points, but a vast majority of them are correct) One bad apple does not spoil the barrel.

here's a question:
Where are your sources of information that prove that Bush DIDN"T lie about Iraq or WoMD.

Oh yeah, and since Farenheight 9/11 is all lies (which is possible, since I havn't seen it) why don't you tell me that 'facts' that are false. Oh wait, you havn't seen it either and have no idea what you're talking about.


Thats kinda funny, you won't read a book that bashes bush, you won't watch a movie that bashes bush (or if you do you'll choose not to believe anything it says).

My friend, I think your need to widen your perspective.
Ignorance truely is bliss.

[A Lost Soul]

Who the fuck is making a movie about 9/11?? Maybe working nights at the lab has kept me out of the loop a bit, but I thought that movie was scrapped. It's too soon for something like that. Way too soon... Some of us aren't done mourning. I feel the same way about a dramatization of what happened that day as I do about Bush and his dumbass idea to use that day as a springboard for his re-election propoganda. Man, I want to slap that guy. How anyone thinks they have balls big enough to use something like 9/11 and twist it to suit their own devices is beyond me.

As far as assassination goes, I stick to my original statement. No one deserves to be murdered. However, if an American took it upon themselves to get rid of President Bush, I can't say that I would blame them. He's taken a lot away from a lot of people.

And you all realize that the Feds are probably honed in on this thread by now.

[toomanypossibilities]

A Lost Soul

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

Not the kind of 9/11 movie you were thinking about.....

[Alric]

I didn't mean I wouldn't read it because it said bad things about bush but that it was writen with the sole purpose of bashing him, as in its not fair and is totally one sided. If its showed both sides, or even just said the facts I would read it but I don't want to read any books that go around just to try to make someone look bad.

As for the movie I know I havn't seen it but its been in the news a lot and everyone(even the people who hate bush) admit that most of it is not true in any way.

And the movie is propoganda like lost soul thinks, its from the other side however. Which is just as bad.

[A Lost Soul]

Originally posted by toomanypossibilities
A Lost Soul

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

Not the kind of 9/11 movie you were thinking about.....
You are absolutely right. That isn't what I thought at all. I retract my initial reaction of disgust and ire. I watched the trailer (man, I am out of the loop, aren't I?) and I'm now perplexed as to why he chose the name. Aside from the fact that it's a sure attention-getter, anyway.

Ah well. What do I know? :oops:

[wer]

Micheal Moore has made a movie about it, and let me list a few things that it showed the public:

-Real Iraqie babies, burnt to a crisp, hundreds of them.
-American soulders, saying they listin to The Roof Is On Fire when there "killin". Footege of soulders in tank sayin "Burn motherfucker, BURN!!!.
-The family of a lost teen, who died in the war.
-Bush taking VACATION 42% of the time.
-Showed bushes reaction when he found out the towers were hit. He was going to a school to read, he found out, no exprestion on his face, and entered the room, and read my pet goat.
-Showed the bombing of Iraq.
-Showed many mutilated kids, dieing.



What has this movie told me about bush? This: FUCK BUSH AND ALL HIS LITTLE RETARDED FRIENDS!

Some villiage in Texes is missing an idiot!

Bush will go to hell. He's a mass murderer and a mojor retard in my opion.

[wer]

Trust me, most Americans are embarrased.

[Alric]

I would take anything you see with a grain of salt. I was going to say its mostly all made up but i have not seen it. I have heard that it is largely fiction though, and that wasn't just from people who supports bush.

[Daeraug]

Originally posted by Alric
I would take anything you see with a grain of salt. I was going to say its mostly all made up but i have not seen it. I have heard that it is largely fiction though, and that wasn't just from people who supports bush.

Some of the videos you see American soldiers killing Iraqi civilians, are Iraqi troops. They stole a units uniforms in Kuwait. There was several stolen from the place that they were cleaning our uniforms. Also, I seen some of those videos, watch american soldier has a beard?

[Joseph_Stalin]

Didn't Bush just come out of Ireland or something? Jesus Christ, what the fuck does he do all day?

Oh yeah, and as much as I don't like the war, I can't stand hearing about things like "They waved a white flag (surrender), and then jumped my unit. We lost 35 men." That's crazy. Of course they are pretty desperate (civilians and militia), and I know chivarly isn't exactly around anymore, but you have to have some guidlines to make war as civil as possible.

And yeah they dress up as civilians all the time. The average soldier probably can't identify an armed man in disguise from a regular civilian. That's pretty dishonorable too, but you can't say it isn't effective.

[nightowl]

Originally posted by baconmastermind
http://www.ericblumrich.com/gta.html

Haven't the general public found out about this? Haven't they protested? A while ago I found out what that video said and I was outraged. Why are such people put into power?

[Alric]

I think there is so many lies floating around from people trying to smear each other(going both ways), thats its really hard for the average person to tell what is true and what is made up. So unless you hear something from atleast two different sources you can't really believe it.

[Truthbearer]

I just saw that site that bacon posted, and, although I cannot tell if it is true or not, I still think that the mere posiblility of that occuring is proof of the corruption we are living this day in age. I think that no matter who won the elections we are still fucked, and this whole "democracy" is nothing more than a facade...

[nightowl]

Originally posted by Alric
I think there is so many lies floating around from people trying to smear each other(going both ways), thats its really hard for the average person to tell what is true and what is made up. So unless you hear something from atleast two different sources you can't really believe it.

I know what you mean. Almost everything is one-sided or biased. I wouldn't be surprised if that whole site was that way either, but the whole florida thing. I just thought that was absolutely ridiculous and I hope that that never happens again.

[Truthbearer]

The problem is, far all we know, it has happened for 300 years and it will continue to happen till the end of time. It is all too big to control it, to make sure it is all clean and fair. There is bound to be some corruption in some part of the system, mostly when money is at stake...

[Alric]

There is corruption in anything people do. Just need to catch them, then deal with it.

[Death-Wuad]

The main problem with america is that you can't tell what kind of president a person is going to be until they actually are president. They all say the same stuff, "I wan't peace, I support lower taxes, I am an ally of family values, my opponent is an asshole, I will make this country safer for our kids, blah blah blah." BULLCRAP! Being president should be like jury duty, every week a new president is chosen based on a test they take. The test is seperated into three parts:

1. You can count
2. You can pronounce words
3. You fear change

If you fail the test, you lose your citizenship.

Reference to part 3: Stop changing the country, it worked fine before you got here, what makes you think it will be better? You have nothing to support your claims but your own propoganda, just shutup and not do anything so you don't piss everybody off.

[Joseph_Stalin]

If we didn't have change during the 1930s, the depression would have been a lot worse. Radical people like FDR, who know what they're doing, should not have that question apply to them. Hell, we'd still be buying stocks on credit if it wasn't for his regulations.

[Death-Wuad]

Changes need to happen when the country is screwing up without anybody causing it. I just think that radical changes to our rights are not acceptable these days.

[Truthbearer]

The problem is, realistically speaking, change is inevitable. Things must and will change, as hard as this fact may be. The issue is not to try and prevent change, but rather to embrace it and adjust it to the needs of the people.

We are already far too deep to follow our path to were we once were. Something mayor will occur in the following decades. I can feel it. The revolution of the cycle is imminent and most necesary. That is all I hope for in my life, to witness and, if possible, take a part in assisting this to occur. I know the fact that it is a cycle means it will one day repeat itself, and the world will be exactly where it is now, but isn't the time before we get there again worth it? I think it is. It is worthy of my life, at least...

[Death-Wuad]

The kind of change that I want to see is people making new episodes of M*A*S*H, I'm eager to see if we won the war or not.

[Alric]

Didn't the end of MASH already say what happened? I am pretty sure they did.

[Joseph_Stalin]

I'm geussing that in the next century:

A)North Korea will launch a nuclear missle at the United States
B)Robots will revolt
C)There will be a revolution, and America will become a communist state


Now, which of three seems most likely? Take the time see or the answer will not be.

;) Pay no attention to the bolded words which are definately not the incorrect answers.

[CT]

Originally posted by baconmastermind
http://www.ericblumrich.com/gta.html

OMG that song ROCKS .... I used to put my GTA1 cd in my cd player and play that song, w00t heh... Its rap and i dont like that but i just like the guitarish sound SO Much and the rap doesnt bother me

[Alric]

I would have to say B is the most likely but I kind of doubt any of them have any real chance of happening.

[nightowl]

I've always imagined that we will all be doomed by either robots or ourselves.

[rogue_noir]

I'm not going to bother arguing the obvious moral issues of killing anyone for any purpose other than self-defense..

Even if you have no morals and can get away with it, what will it accomplish? Cheny will come to power and I'd much rather have Bush than Cheny be president. And not to mention bringing the Bush family much undeserved sympathy.

On a side note, we've had 40-something presidents and so far 4 assasinations. That means the mortality rate for becoming president is almost 10%, much higher than, say, the mortality rate of being a soldier sent off to war these days.

[Joseph_Stalin]

Well, think about it from an average person's point of view. Would you rather have a grumply old man giving you State of the Union addresses, coughing his lungs out, or would you want a bomb-tossing, furrowed eyebrowed Texan delivering the speeches?

I suppose it's a lesser of two evils...

Which brings us back to the 2004 elections. :whyohwhy:

[Weee-]

watch Fahrenheit 9/11 ..... I think that movie says it all...

[nightowl]

Originally posted by Weee-
watch Fahrenheit 9/11 ..... I think that movie says it all...

I was going to see that with my cousin, but apparently she forgot to tell me that it was Rated R and that I needed to be 17. :P I did have peanut butter cup ice cream covered in peanut butter cups in a cup instead though. It was damned good :D

[Truthbearer]

I have no idea when they will premier that here, but they did take like two years to finally show "Bowling for Columbine", so I won't get my hopes up... :(