Ask the Older Crowd [Archive] - Dreamviews lucid dreaming forums

05-26-2007, 11:43 AM

So... how did your family cope through the Depression? :chuckle: j/k :wink:

You asked about my family, and I can actually answer that. (I just spent the whole morning with my folks, who were teens during the Great Depression. They would certainly qualify as family!)

My dad's folks came from Sicily in the early teens. Dad was born in Detroit in 1918, during the monstrous flu epidemic. Like many of his generation, he has two birthdays - the day he was actually born on the kitchen table, and the day he was taken to the hospital for his birth certificate.

My grandfather was a shoemaker in Sicily, and the hard times they left behind made Depression era Detroit still look pretty good. Grandpa had become a pattern maker for Henry Ford, and was one of the fortunate few who held his job to some degree through the 1930's. As a result, there was always bread and pasta, and their home was open to the neighborhood. Anybody who was hungry could go there for a meal. They raised chickens, made Dago Red wine, made their own beer, and in general did all right.

Being a kid in Depression-era Detroit was an amazing thing. The Mafia and the Purple Gang were battling it out over the "trade routes" for Canadian whiskey, and Detroit was the center of it all with Windsor being right across the river. My dad became a pool hustler - the "straight guy" who would get a game started before the shark came in. They were all "rum runners," and saw more than their share of excitement as a result.

My mom's world was very different. The depression hit the Copper Country of Michigan's upper peninsula very heard. She was sent to Detroit to live with relatives who were faring better, and as a result met my dad.

My folks will tell you that being teenagers in the depression was happy and interesting, and that they were much more content than kids today living what can only be seen from their perspective as lavish and decadent lifestyles. They had little and expected less and were grateful for every meal and the roof over their heads. They had a strong sense of community and found ways to enjoy and celebrate life without spending money they didn't have.

That's how my family fared during the Great Depression.

Mes Tarrant

05-26-2007, 04:54 PM

05-26-2007, 05:14 PM

There are moms on board who will hopefully chime in here. In the meantime, let me answer this in a way that might be a bit unexpected, from my perspective.

When baby #1 comes along, everything in your universe changes. Your priorities all shift to that kid. And it is all encompassing, more than I can even begin to tell you. Yet, as utterly demanding and absorbing as it is, you do what needs to be done... and, often, do it again and again, because it is so wonderful.

And yes, in the midst of that, it is very easy to not eat as carefully, get less physical exercise, let a haircut or manicure slip past or whatever. It doesn't happen to everybody, but it happens to many... and at the same time, we are aging and everything is getting more difficult a little bit at a time. Taking care of ourselves in the sense that we do when we are looking for a mate just becomes less of a priority. There is only so much time in a day, and so much energy to be expended.

It is very easy to judge these things without understanding what being a parent really involves, which is something there is no good way to convey without experiencing it. The child is just more important.

It's all worth it. It is what we really are designed for.

Phydeaux_3

05-26-2007, 05:21 PM

LOL! OK, here goes... so what did you used to study in school before there was history then? Truth be told I'm nearly as old as the "old guys" around here, 37 years young. "Last time I heard that one the Dead Sea was still sick!" Ha! Let's hear it for the old farts. Lucidity is one of the things that IMHO begins to get easier with age, my Dad (60) had his first LD about 6-8 months ago, he's had maybe half a dozen since. Gives you at least ONE thing to look forward to in getting older (which btw is better than the alternative!)
:shock:

Mes Tarrant

05-26-2007, 06:07 PM

05-26-2007, 06:11 PM

I do not disagree with you. I've seen many go way too far, plus there are often other issues like depression, disappointment, frustration... I'm just giving one perspective, not excusing it.

One of my personal axioms is that if we don't take care of ourselves first, we aren't really able to do a good job of taking care of others - and in the long run we can end up being the ones who need caring for.

Ynot

05-26-2007, 06:56 PM

if you could go back 30 years, and meet your 10 year old self

what advise would you give him?

05-26-2007, 07:19 PM

if you could go back 30 years, and meet your 10 year old self

what advise would you give him?

Oooooh. Good one. Lots of "don'ts"

Don't start smoking when you're 12 - you'll be asthmatic and fighting pneumonia a couple times a year before you're 30.

Don't start drinking and drugging... you'll be losing your sanity and end up in AA when you're 21.

Don't be so self-conscious. As trite as it sounds, learn to enjoy who you are rather than trying to twist yourself into something you hope others will like.

Don't quit trying in school. You're going to have to go back and re-learn everything you are blowing off now later on, when you could be doing other things.

Don't choose anger or despair. You don't believe it now, but it IS a choice. You will eventually learn that you can choose to be happy, and you will be.

Don't try climbing that cliff without proper gear, no matter how easy it looks. It will change your life forever, and you'll discover yet another way to damage your body in a way it won't ever recover from.

Do get honest with yourself and be honest with others. There is no future in deceit and dishonesty. Life is infinitely simpler when you live it without all the bullshit.

The girls/women will take care of themselves. Be patient.

Some of the friends you will be making in the next few years will become lifelines in the future. Hold them close and treasure them.

Finally... life is going to be better than you are even remotely capable of understanding or knowing. You are going to have everything you want in life and so much more - but what you end up wanting is going to surprise you very much. You ARE going to be OK... and end up playing a very important role in many lives.

**edit**

Oh - and one more thing... the thing you experience at night in that infinite void is called "Lucid Dreaming." Try spinning and see what happens.

Mes Tarrant

05-26-2007, 07:32 PM

Hehehe! Very nice! :D :D Love the ending.

Clairity

05-26-2007, 09:34 PM

I do understand that a child becomes your everything, what you live for.. but I think looking after yourself sets a good example and helps inspire your child to do the same. I think it's important for kids to be able to look up to their moms (or parents in general) for this sort of thing. Right now I'm speaking from the point of view of the child.. my mother is one of those who let herself go and I know that I would have really appreciated someone who was more put together. It would have helped my self image while growing up for sure.

When you state that a child becomes a women's reason for living.. that thought process could be part of the problem.. caring about the child while forgetting to care about yourself.

If you're talking physically, I made it a point not to let myself go (for my child, for my husband.. but foremost for me).

I do know that sometimes it's hard for a woman's body to "snap" back after being stretched carrying a baby.. in that respect at least mothers have a reason.. what's the father's excuse?

If you're talking about "dress" .. heck everyone has let themselves go! You no longer have to dress up for work, for church, for anything. It has to be a "formal" occasion for most women (myself included) to even put on an actual dress.

Sadly, being a parent doesn't erase all the other problems in a mother's life.. it may even add to them.

When you state it would have helped your self image while growing up.. are you stating that you were embarressed by your mom's appearance?

.

Mes Tarrant

05-26-2007, 09:41 PM

Clairity

05-26-2007, 10:03 PM

If I could go back and meet my 10 year old self? Wow.. great question and alot of my advice echo pj's!!

Don't be so self-conscious. While you're so busy thinking everyone's looking at you.. in reality they're too busy thinking everyone's looking at them.

Don't quit trying in school. Those 12 or 16+ years of schooling will determine the quality of life for you and for your family. Since most people are living to be in their 90s.. that's a long time to regret the career you could have had or the money you could have earned.

Do get honest with yourself and be honest with others. Life is definately simpler when you tell the truth.. it can really get difficult keeping track of what lie you told to who and when!

His wanting to have sex with you doesn't necessarity means that he loves you.. sometimes it just means that he wants to get laid. You will know the difference if you listen to your gut.

Learn to be true to yourself and to heed that voice in your head. If it tells you to walk away from something or someone.. listen to it!!

Life is short! I can vividly remember sitting in my room as a girl wondering if I'd ever date, then if I'd ever get married, have kids, etc. Life seems LOOOOOONG when you're young and then one day you wake up and you're married and/or have kids of your own.

With respect to the above, I wish I'd started saving money beginning with my first paycheck in a moneymarket account and I will make sure my son does so. No one should have to worry about having to work when they're in their 70s because they have no money put aside.

There were times that I felt like things were so horrible that they'd never get better.. that I only had one option. BUT, if you hold on.. and have faith.. things will get better. Bad don't last always!

I am going to close my post with pj's final thought as it's so very profound:

Finally... life is going to be better than you are even remotely capable of understanding or knowing. You are going to have everything you want in life and so much more - but what you end up wanting is going to surprise you very much. You ARE going to be OK... and end up playing a very important role in many lives.

.

Clairity

05-26-2007, 10:21 PM

Oh, not at all. See, I was (and am) an only child, so I think my parents influenced me more than they would have if I had siblings (they say siblings are your biggest influence). My mom never dressed well, so I didn't know how to dress well growing up. It makes a kid's life tough.. all you want to do is fit in, but how can you if you have no one to show you the way. It wasn't until college that that all changed and I found an amazing sense of confidence.

Growing up as an only child, my mom was my role model. I think part of the reason she didn't dress well is because she was never happy with her body, and that kind of insecurity is very transparent to children and they pick up on it I think.

Why do you say you no longer have to dress up for work?
I understand now about your mom and how you didn't learn to dress well. Believe me if your mom didn't like her body.. she probably went out of her way to cover it up.. or didn't go out of her way to dress it up.

I'm so proud of you in that you found your self confidence on your own (that makes it mean it so much more and can only make you stronger)!

When I first started at my job we were required to wear dresses, pantsuits, etc. but, as time went on we now have a "business casual" policy which basically means that we can wear jeans, t-shirts, jogging suits, practically anything but pajamas. You'd be amazed at what I've seen some women and men wear to work (and this is a fortune 500 company).

.

Mes Tarrant

05-26-2007, 10:40 PM

Thanks for your insight, Clairity!! :)

I rather like the sound of "business casual."

Clairity

05-26-2007, 10:49 PM

Thanks for your insight, Clairity!! :)

I rather like the sound of "business casual."
You're so very welcome!

And yeah "business casual" is great.. especially if you don't feel well but still have to go in to work!

.

Universal Mind

05-27-2007, 01:01 AM

I'm 35, and I can at least offer some perspective on what it's like to have a 1970's childhood and a 1980's adolescence, if anybody is into that sort of thing.

My parents were big time disco fans in the 70's, and I thought disco was a major part of the way the world works. I didn't know it was just a fad. My father was a huge classic rock fan too, which at the time was just "rock". It hadn't become classic yet. I remember three albums he played all the time in the late 70's-- Peter Frampton's Frampton Comes Alive, Fleetwood Mac's Rumors, and the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack. All three of those albums became top five of all time best sellers. My mother took me to see the movie Saturday Night Fever, THE disco movie. It was a pop culture phenomenon. I still have big time childhood nostalgia when I watch that movie or listen to songs from it. The television shows were great then, even though there were only four channels-- NBC, ABC, CBS, and PBS. HBO started catching on in 1979. Cartoons and some other children's shows were on the three networks every Saturday morning from sunrise until 11:00 a.m. They were switched up a good bit every season, so over the course of my childhood there were tons of children's shows to encounter on Saturday mornings, and the shows were so cool then. It was in style for guys to have fairly long or bushy hair, even business men. Cut off jeans and tube socks, pulled up close to the knees, with colorful bands (usually two colors with a different color between them) were totally in style, and jerseys that didn't look like they were supposed to be worn in games were big. It was a very artistic and inspiriational time. I think the 1970's is the greatest decade of culture and entertainment in human history. I love knowing that I was there for all of that. It was the best decade ever to be a child, I think.

Then came the 1980's. A lot of what I said about the 70's went out the window, but I had a lot of fun. A lot of great heavy metal bands got big in the 80's, and I made it a point to see their concerts. Jackson doesn't get a lot of good musical acts because we are closely surrounded by New Orleans, Memphis, Dallas, and Atlanta. I wasn't old enough to go to those cities and spend the night without parental supervision. However, the biggest heavy metal bands of the 80's came to Jackson. Fortunately for me, that was my favorite type of music. I saw Judas Priest in 1984, when they were my favorite band. I saw Ratt in 1985 and 1987, when they were my favorite band. I saw Metallica in 1989, when they were my favorite band. I saw Bon Jovi before they were famous, when they opened up for Ratt. I also saw Guns 'N Roses before they were famous, when they opened up for Motley Crue. I saw lots of other big ones also. I really wish I saw Van Halen in 1984, but I didn't become a fan until a few months after they played here. The music of the 80's, aside from heavy metal, was mostly not supergreat, although mostly good, but I'm glad I was there for the birth of MTV. It was a 24 hour a day music video network then. There were videos, hosts (V.J.'s), and commercials. Nothing else. I watched it all the time. There were good televisions shows and movies too, but nothing like what came out in the 70's. For most of the 80's, my social life was riding my BMX bike around the neighborhood with friends and house hopping and playing neighborhood sports. I don't see kids doing that as much these days. Video games really, really caught on in 1982. That was the year Atari became gigantic. Atari was the original home video game system. It paved the way for X Box and Playstation. I got my driver's license in 1987 and began a long streak of piling people into my large car and riding around all over the place and hanging out in parking lots. That was very in style then. I think the police have cracked down on that in most places now.

I think most of us were there for the 90's. I guess I'll let a younger person talk about that decade on this site in 20 years. :)

Oneironaught

05-27-2007, 08:06 AM

I'm not as old a PJ or Clairity (ha-ha, I just called you old :D ) but I'm not too far lagging. However, I'm plenty old enough to recognize sound, thoughtful advice like what you've given. It's actually some of the best advice I've heard in quite some time. It seems that far too many people are overly selfish and don't bother to think past today.

It's wonderful that we've got people here who are mature enough to understand what really matters in life. There's not much for me to say other than that I'm proud to be able to associate with people of your stature. I wish your collective message could be spoon-fed to every young-er person in the world.

05-27-2007, 11:45 AM

It's wonderful that we've got people here who are mature enough to understand what really matters in life. There's not much for me to say other than that I'm proud to be able to associate with people of your stature. I wish your collective message could be spoon-fed to every young-er person in the world.

You know what spoon-feeding generally leads to? Gagging.

My folks and relatives tried to warn and guide me. I would have none of it. My early teenage self would have dismissed my present self as a fool, and that would have been that.

Thanks for the kind words. This wasn't intended to be some kind of mountaintop though, just an opportunity to maybe open a conversation between generations in a relaxed context without worry about repercussions.

My generation are just a bunch of foolish kids to my parents' generation, God bless 'em. My dad's going to be 89 this year. I wrote a bit about him earlier in the thread. We spent the morning yesterday replacing one of the front hubs on my car. His older brother still golfs twice a week - walking and pulling his clubs.

Clairity

05-27-2007, 03:14 PM

I'm not as old a PJ or Clairity (ha-ha, I just called you old :D )

Watch-it! :wtf:

but I'm not too far lagging. However, I'm plenty old enough to recognize sound, thoughtful advice like what you've given. It's actually some of the best advice I've heard in quite some time. It seems that far too many people are overly selfish and don't bother to think past today.

It's wonderful that we've got people here who are mature enough to understand what really matters in life. There's not much for me to say other than that I'm proud to be able to associate with people of your stature. I wish your collective message could be spoon-fed to every young-er person in the world.
Wow.. thanks! :oops: (You are herebye forgiven for the "old" crack)!

Seriously, I'm just glad that I could give advice that someone might actually read and find useful (or relevant). :content:

.

CoLd BlooDed

05-27-2007, 03:40 PM

Wow, awesome thread.

I have a question: what would you consider the toughest thing you've faced in your life? And then what would you consider the happiest?

It's fun to contrast.

Oh, and one thing; I remember when I was young I'd ask someone how old they were, and they'd say, "55... I'm old!" and I'd always say, "55 isn't old! 155 is old!" and then they'd laugh. I guess what I'm trying to say is 40 is not really that much and there's nothing to worry about. :D

05-27-2007, 04:52 PM

Wow, awesome thread.

I have a question: what would you consider the toughest thing you've faced in your life? And then what would you consider the happiest?

It's fun to contrast.

Wow - another fabulous question. Thank you!

The happiest is much easier than the toughest, because the toughest is still very hard to write about.

The day I got married was incredible. Being there when both our children came into this world was even better. There are many many other experiences that are way up there... including the moment my lower extremities started functioning again before they committed surgery on my back after I broke it falling off the cliff.

The toughest. Ok.

I've talked about my mother-in-law in other threads. She was my friend before I ever met her daughter. My wife and I have chosen to take on some challenging (to put it mildly) responsibilities. These choices divided our family, because many chose not to recognize the reality of what as going on. My wife's mother was the one who made it her business to know the reality of it all, diving right in to do all she could to support us. She was our rock when the rest of the world seemed to have abandoned us.

She was also a life-long "functional" alcoholic. For all she was to us, she chose to live in a world the way she imagined it should be rather than the way it was. As a result of this, a fight with her condo association ended up in her getting evicted. She didn't know or believe it was coming, and she otherwise owned her condo outright and had everything paid up.

She returned home from work on a rainy Thursday evening, finding all her worldly possessions sitting out in the yard. She went into the garage, tried her key in the door and found the lock had been changed. And she died... right there.

A neighbor found her the following morning. I was on my way to pick up my wife to take her to lunch when we got the call from the police. They didn't tell us what had happened, but we knew. Or we thought we knew. We knew her mother was dead. We arrived at the condo, entering in a way that we couldn't see the yard. Her body was still laying in the garage. We learned for sure of her death, and started dealing with that.

Then the officer said that the shock of the eviction must have brought on a heart attack. Eviction? That was when we walked around the side and saw what we were facing on top of the death.

We called friends and family, who brought trucks and trailers and people. An uncle emptied out a pole barn for us. Because of friends and family who were willing to walk into that rain-soaked hell alongside us, we were able to deal with it... and survive it.

That 24 hours was the toughest thing I've ever had to endure. We faced the loss of the "third parent" in our household, my wife's mother, my friend, our children's beloved grandmother, and had to do the dirty work of an estate clean-out before the funeral arrangements had even begun to be made.

This is the short version, for as long as it is. During the whole experience, the lines between friends and family blurred. We were held up when we couldn't even think. We were fed and cared for. As horrible as it was, I have more gratitude for all those who came forward for us than I can express or will ever have the opportunity to repay.

**EDIT**
I came back here to delete this, then decided to leave it.

I was thinking that as hard as this was for us to deal with, so many others we know have dealt with more difficult things. This couldn't hold a candle to a parent losing a child... and I know several who have. I know families who have fled Communist countries, bringing nothing with them but faith, leaving their entire world behind and risking their lives in the process. I know men who escaped prison camps during wars. I know and have met people who lost parents and other loved ones to death camps and the killing fields.

Life is full of trauma and tribulation. We humans can be amazingly resilient. While it is important to remember, it is also important to get on with life, which is done in part by staying focused on the good stuff.

MercurialDream

05-27-2007, 06:22 PM

Okay you're a guy but I have a question about mothers which you might be able to answer since you're married...

Is it very common for women to "let themselves go" after childbirth in terms of their appearance (dress, body)? It seems to me like it is, and that worries me. I feel like having a kid should enhance your life in every way, including self-image. If you're happily married and with a kid, then you have it all and you should look like it too. But I tend to see mothers left and right who look like slobs and don't seem very happy and it scares me.

Well...lets see I am 32, so not quite the fossil that pj is **Smirks**, but surely I am in the 'older' category on this site because all I seem to be reading is how young everyone is. Scary!!

Okay, so this 'let themselves go' theory, is real...I lived it. However I think for each woman you see like that, there is an underlying issue that is being avoided or ignored. I am a beautiful woman, I know that. I was beautiful when I married, and I am beautiful now.. but I was not so beautiful towards the end of my marriage. Why? I was not happy. Some people will tell you that you can look like total hell, and still be happy. Hmm.. could be true, but not likely. People who ARE happy, will look it. We have bad days, we look like hell sometimes, but the overall look usually does not follow that pattern.

Why do women (and men) "let themselves go"? I can only speak for me, so here it goes... I was unhappy at home, with my husband and so inturn, with myself. I stopped caring what I looked like, stop caring how I felt, because inside, I felt like no one else cared either. I put all of my energy into raising my children and did not leave ANY in reserve for ME. Should I have put my kids 2nd? Yes and no. NO, I should not stop caring, loving, protecting and teaching my children.. but YES, I should take care of myself first. If I am not healthy and capable, how will I ever care for them?

My failed marriage (many reasons, not the place for it here in THIS topic) ended and I took control of my life again. I have full custody of my 4 children, I work full time and have a variety of sports and activites that my children are in that I am completely active in alongside of them. I run them to golf lessons, dance lessons, soccer lessons, the park to play, school activies, cub scouts (Im a Den Leader too) ...but I realize one thing, I am their role model. I do what I can for them and I do it by being at MY PERSONAL BEST. During my "let go" days, I gained 40 lbs.. yeah, I know, yikes! But when I decided I was in control of my life and no one was going to carry me the whole way, I got my divorce and took better care of myself. I didn't go on a crash diet or join a gym, I just paid attention to myself a bit more.. and I dropped 35 lbs... naturally... and I am 40times busier than I was before and I have lost any help from having a spouse around, and at times I am so exhausted I cannot believe I am even conscious. However, I am happier than I have ever been. And it shows. I have offically "got myself back."

So, yes it happens, but it can unhappen.

Mes Tarrant

05-27-2007, 07:19 PM

MercurialDream, thank you so much for your reply! I'm very happy that everything's better for you now.. you seem like an amazing woman.

Moonbeam

05-27-2007, 08:32 PM

My thoughts: (I made a long post that got lost; that's OK I think it is better summarized anyway:)

It's all worth it. It is what we really are designed for.

Not me! First bit of advice: Know Yourself. Don't let yourself end up with things that you didn't really want in the first place.

Related to this is: Learn from the mistakes of others. Don't remake them all yourself.

Very important: Don't borrow money except for an education or a home. Credit cards are evil, car dealers are evil. If you can't save the money for it before, do you really want to be paying it back later with interest?

One of my personal axioms is that if we don't take care of ourselves first, we aren't really able to do a good job of taking care of others - and in the long run we can end up being the ones who need caring for.

Very true. It's OK to be selfish. People will admire your independence, instead of thinking you're a sucker. (I had a long paragraph written here about my selfish father and my selfless mother--I won't repeat it, but which one do you think I don't have to worry about, and which one am I taking care of?)

That's all I can think of for now.

wasup

05-27-2007, 08:47 PM

Good thread.

What do you think about when reflecting on high school and such. What do you think of the people? The dislikes for people, the people you were trying to impress, the people that annoyed you, etc.

Moonbeam

05-27-2007, 08:55 PM

Clairity

05-27-2007, 09:42 PM

I have a question: what would you consider the toughest thing you've faced in your life? And then what would you consider the happiest?
First let me say.. pj I am so unbelievably sorry. I can't begin to fathom the emotional toll something like that has had on you and your family. My husband lost his mother to cancer in March of this year and he had an incredibly hard time on Mother's day (I can only imagine what Mother's day was like for you). There are simply no words.. I'm still stunned by your post.

As for the "toughest" thing I've had to face in my life .. I posted the following in Feb 05:

My first husband was physically abusive to the point that one evening I felt I couldn't take it anymore, I held out a butcher knife and told him to "just kill me.. to please just end it.."

When I was holding our baby son and he hit him to reach me I knew I had to get out. I took the clips from his guns and went to my parent's house. He had closed me off from my family and friends and no one knew how bad it was until I left... I was too ashamed/embarressed to let them know that I would allow anyone to treat me that way.

To make a very long story short, I ended up leaving my family/friends and moving across the country with my son, our clothes, a tv and a couple of beanbags (it was all I could fit into the car). We had nothing but I never felt more free..

If you ask me if I regret marrying my first husband, I would have to say no. That marriage gave me my loving, gentle, intelligent son and he is worth any pain I had to endure.

As for the "happiest" moment, I sincerely hope that is yet to come! But I do have many "happy" moments: when I'm ballroom dancing, when I feel like I've made a real difference in someone's life either with word or deed, when I look at my son, and when my present husband (and best friend) looks at me.

.

Clairity

05-27-2007, 09:57 PM

What do you think about when reflecting on high school and such. What do you think of the people? The dislikes for people, the people you were trying to impress, the people that annoyed you, etc.

Pretty meaningless. Actually totally meaningless.
I agree with Moonbeam.

All those kids in high school that I used to want to "like" me or that I wanted to "be like".. ended up not meaning a thing to my life once I left high school. High school is a point in time in your life.. a very small point in time. High school is a means to an end.. it is used to get you into a college/university.. and college/university is then used to get you ready for your adult life. And since you'll spend the next 50+ years of your life OUTSIDE of school.. outside of school is where you'll meet the majority of people who will have some true meaning in your life.

.

Oneironaught

05-27-2007, 10:07 PM

Yeah, that is heart-wrenching pj. No one should have to go through something like that. Thank God for good friends.

...to let them know that I would allow anyone to treat me that way.
You raised such a valid point that every here needs to learn a lesson from. Never let yourself be pushed around by others. Leaving can be very hard to do because of fear of the unknown. Freeing yourself from a negative situation in your life is a liberating and worthy endeavour. The benefits are often immediate.

Remember your responsibilities and that you have a responsibility to yourself (and your children, when applicable). Sometimes life's pains are unavoidable or are a reasonable price for the fulfillment of some critical responsibility. But never let yourself be treated like that by another person. Abuse is never an option, that's why it's called "abuse".

CoLd BlooDed

05-28-2007, 12:35 AM

Thanks for the quick response pj and Clarity, I don't have time to reply so expect one soon. Greatest sympathies to you, pj, but thank you for answering. And I agree, life is full of trauma and tribulations, I'm only 16 and I have some pretty big ones already.

05-28-2007, 05:13 AM

Wow - thanks to everybody participating in this thread so far! I am so enjoying the questions and the replies.

Moonbeam - I'm sorry your big post was lost - I would have loved to read the details. You have a great mind and fascinating insights from your rather unique perspective. I've had that happen... if you go beyond the 15 minutes or so in composing the post, the system logs you off and when you hit that "submit" button, you get an empty screen. I've been able to recover those by hitting the back button on my browser and copying off what was written.

Thanks for the all the kind words regarding our experience with my wife's mom.

Clairity... I spent two years a while back helping somebody get to the point where she was able to leave an identical situation. It was almost like reading her story to read yours, and I've heard it from others too. There is a bizarre methodology to that kind of abuse. It becomes a vicious cycle that the abuser controls. Cutting off friends and family is an essential part of it. Crushing the will and questioning the sanity of the one being abused is part of it. Rising up from that prison - and that is EXACTLY what it is - and fleeing takes tremendous courage, especially after years of having somebody systematically tearing down every shred of your self-confidence. Bravo. I am in awe of you, lady.

Regarding high school for me... I missed it. Really I did. I got stoned and stayed that way, and nothing that happened there ended up making a shred of difference in my life. My only regret was having to go back for remedial English and algebra to get started in junior college. That was a lot of wasted time... but then almost all of the 1970's was pretty well wasted for me.

Finally, a quick observation about the good time/bad times thing. Clairity nailed it when she said the best of times are yet to come. They happen all the time, if we are simply open to them. The sun hitting my shoulders... standing on our little piece of river or recognizing a tree I planted several years ago that is growing... the company of friends... the gentle touch of my wife or a hug from my children... listening to my son play the violin... having a piece of music or song I've written "ring true" with somebody. It just goes on and on.

It is easy to let bad things cast a pall over all of life. We don't have to let that happen. If I can stay in the moment, life is full of beauty, joy and wonderful surprises.

Moonbeam

05-28-2007, 07:36 AM

Moonbeam - I'm sorry your big post was lost - I would have loved to read the details. You have a great mind and fascinating insights from your rather unique perspective. I've had that happen... if you go beyond the 15 minutes or so in composing the post, the system logs you off and when you hit that "submit" button, you get an empty screen. I've been able to recover those by hitting the back button on my browser and copying off what was written.

Oh, is that what happened? I got a new computer and I thought that had something to do with it. I did hit the back button, but unfortunately it just went back to what I had quoted from you, rather than the whole thing. That's OK, I summed up what I wanted to say. Probably too long the first time anyway.

Clairity and pj, thanks for sharing those stories. It does put things in perspective. I'm glad you had people to help you. Clairity, yours is a story that is way too common, but not everyone makes it out like you had the strength to do. pj, your story is quite unique in its tragedy, but really does graphically illustrate that the best way to help those that you love is to help yourself first. Something that some peoples' mothers will never learn--I guess that is all too common too.

The worst thing that ever happened to me was finding my sister after she killed herself, and the after effects on my family. She had a two year old, my niece, who is now 22. After 20 years I can still hardly bring myself to talk about it, and very rarely do. I bring it up to say that, as horrible as it was, it caused a change in me that completely turned my life. It the brought the rest of my family closer. Good things can come out of even the worst events. I didn't want to say that, because I feel like it is saying that there are good things about her death, but it is something to remember during bad times.

Oneironaught

05-28-2007, 08:43 AM

pj: when you found the one you are now very happily married to (I truly envy you), did you know from the beginning that she was perfect for you? If so, how? What told you that you found your soul-mate? This is of particular concern/interest to me at the present time.

Moonbeam - I'm sorry your big post was lost - I would have loved to read the details. You have a great mind and fascinating insights from your rather unique perspective. I've had that happen... if you go beyond the 15 minutes or so in composing the post, the system logs you off and when you hit that "submit" button, you get an empty screen. I've been able to recover those by hitting the back button on my browser and copying off what was written.
Are you sure, pj? I've taken hours before to compose posts (you know, break for dinner, phone calls, etc...) and that's never happened to me.

I do know that sometimes the server seems to have a brain fart and screws up. When it seems to be taking too long to post, I right click and "select all" then quickly copy (ctrl+c). Though, the back button has saved me a few times, it doesn't always work to save your entered text, only the quoted text. I was also saved by "back" then "forward" a time or two.

CoLd BlooDed

05-28-2007, 04:13 PM

It is easy to let bad things cast a pall over all of life. We don't have to let that happen. If I can stay in the moment, life is full of beauty, joy and wonderful surprises.

You know, that's something I've already learned at my age. Is that good or bad? ;)

And let me just say, I feel for you both Clairity and Pj. Any sort of loss or abuse is difficult. One of my cats was put down not too long ago and I was even torn up about that, so I can't even imagine losing a relative that I was really close with. And I know all about abusive relationships, except it was the other way around, with my uncle. His wife had bipolar and she'd get angry and hurt my cousins and him. There's actually been a lot of conflict within my dads family. So much, in fact, that it would take a good hour of my time to describe everything that's happened to them. So I'm sorry to hear that about you guys.

It's actually kind of funny when I think about it... here I am thinking that no one else has gone through stuff like me, but indeed there are people who've experienced worse and recovered less. I wouldn't necessarily call it ignorance, just a lack of knowledge for people who share life stories. :D

Anyways, another question... what happened to all the friends you ever met in high school? Did you keep in contact? If you did... did the 'nerds' become successful? The assholes never making it past co-manager at Wallmart? I'm dying to know.

Thanks guys.

05-28-2007, 05:46 PM

pj: when you found the one you are now very happily married to (I truly envy you), did you know from the beginning that she was perfect for you? If so, how? What told you that you found your soul-mate? This is of particular concern/interest to me at the present time.
--
Are you sure, pj? I've taken hours before to compose posts (you know, break for dinner, phone calls, etc...) and that's never happened to me.

Re - am I sure? All I'm saying is it's happened to me and I've been able to recover from the cache when it has happened. Could be... don't know for sure.

Re: finding my wife...

I fell in love with my wife before ever seeing her face. We got hooked up on the phone, and by the third conversation with her I was head over heels. Even then, we waited more than a year before getting engaged.

The "lust buzz" faded, as it always does, though it lasted a very long time for us - a lot longer than any prior relationship. We've had a couple ups and downs over the years, getting synchronized and settling on ways to deal with things, but through it all we have both made the conscious decision to love one another and honor the promises we made. And as we choose to love, love grows.

It's an easy mistake to think the chemical fireworks of first meeting somebody is love. It's amazing and exciting, but it isn't really love. It isn't even close. Love is way better, but it doesn't happen all by itself. It is a commitment. It is a choice. And like all good things, it requires attention and work.

05-28-2007, 05:59 PM

You know, that's something I've already learned at my age. Is that good or bad? ;)

It is fantastic. I wish I was mature and intelligent enough to have figured that out about a decade or so earlier.

Anyways, another question... what happened to all the friends you ever met in high school? Did you keep in contact? If you did... did the 'nerds' become successful? The assholes never making it past co-manager at Wallmart? I'm dying to know.

I just spent the day with two friends from high school - one who accompanied us through the Memorial Day services and attending to grave markers, and another couple who spent the whole afternoon with us. Of all the people I associated with back then, these friends have stuck, and I treasure them as much or more than many I have biological ties with.

Others... many, sadly, are dead. That was the nature of the crowd I hung with. Others are in prison - one who I do stay in touch with and visit from time to time. Yes, the few "nerds" (which wasn't a term I knew back then) I am still aware of have been very successful. Several of the "plain" girls have become late-blooming beauties, and many of the to-die-for beauties have not aged well at all.

Of them all, these three I spent today with and the one I visit in prison are the only ones I call 'friends'. I would lay my life down for any of them, and I know they would do the same for me. The rest... I really only notice them occasionally in passing because I still live in the same city.

I was one of the assholes, by the way. Stoned, belligerent and dishonest - all the qualities you'd look for in somebody to despise.

CoLd BlooDed

05-28-2007, 06:11 PM

I was one of the assholes, by the way. Stoned, belligerent and dishonest - all the qualities you'd look for in somebody to despise.

Well, I hope you didn't take that the wrong way. It wasn't intentional.

And thanks for your reply.

05-28-2007, 06:34 PM

Well, I hope you didn't take that the wrong way. It wasn't intentional.

And thanks for your reply.

You're welcome, and of course I didn't take it the wrong way.

Funny thing about assholes... some of them do come around. That's why I still stay in touch with the guy in prison. I have hope for him... and he is a stark reminder of where I was heading.

Clairity

05-28-2007, 08:39 PM

Wow.. there's so much to reply to!

Clairity... I spent two years a while back helping somebody get to the point where she was able to leave an identical situation. It was almost like reading her story to read yours, and I've heard it from others too. There is a bizarre methodology to that kind of abuse. It becomes a vicious cycle that the abuser controls. Cutting off friends and family is an essential part of it. Crushing the will and questioning the sanity of the one being abused is part of it. Rising up from that prison - and that is EXACTLY what it is - and fleeing takes tremendous courage, especially after years of having somebody systematically tearing down every shred of your self-confidence. Bravo. I am in awe of you, lady.
Thanks so much pj .. but honestly I did it more for my son than myself. I didn't want him to think that "loving" a women gives you license to call her a bitch (or worse).. or that hitting her proves how "deeply" you love her. My ex learned these things from his father and I was NOT going to pass that legacy down to my son.

The worst thing that ever happened to me was finding my sister after she killed herself, and the after effects on my family. She had a two year old, my niece, who is now 22. After 20 years I can still hardly bring myself to talk about it, and very rarely do. I bring it up to say that, as horrible as it was, it caused a change in me that completely turned my life. It the brought the rest of my family closer. Good things can come out of even the worst events. I didn't want to say that, because I feel like it is saying that there are good things about her death, but it is something to remember during bad times.
Moonbeam, take a second to close your eyes .. you'll feel my hug. :hug:

pj: when you found the one you are nowvery happily married to (I truly envy you), did you know from the beginning that she was perfect for you? If so, how? What told you that you found your soul-mate? This is of particular concern/interest to me at the present time.
I know you asked this question of pj, but I feel the need to answer it as well. I've been with my husband now for over 15 years and to be honest.. my previous marriage as bad as it was.. helped me to find and appreciate the man I'm with now. There's nothing like a horrible marriage to help you discover what's important in a life mate! It's not looks, it's not money, it's not social standing.. it's none of that. I would never have considered my second husband if not for my first.

I think what helped with me is that I got to know my husband at work.. it's as though God knew I needed a good man and he set him literally right in front of me (his desk was across from mine). By getting to know him at work (and not at a club or somewhere else where people put on a front to impress or hookup), I saw how he was with his co-workers, with his friends.. on his good days and his bad.. in other words I got to see the "true" him.

He's younger than me, he's a different race than myself, he's a different faith than myself and, with all those differences.. he took on a women who had been battered and bruised, who'd had her confidence shattered and who had a toddler and not much else. On our first date, he came to the house, I opened the door, took him to my son's room and said, "this is my son.. he's been through a lot and HE is the most important thing in my life.. decide now if you can handle that". He looked at my sleeping son and then back at me and we've been together since that moment on. He stood with me through more than you can imagine. I've learned that what matters most for me in a life partner .. is does he make me feel good about myself when he's with me (and when he's not). Does he make me laugh and does he laugh with me. Can I talk to him about what's bothering me and does he really listen and at least try to understand. My husband went from having no children and no one to worry about but himself, to having a ready made family and he didn't miss a beat. Damn, I love him..

Anyways, another question... what happened to all the friends you ever met in high school? Did you keep in contact? If you did... did the 'nerds' become successful? The assholes never making it past co-manager at Wallmart? I'm dying to know.
Thanks guys.
I lost contact with everyone from high school. Once I graduated, I left high school and them in my past and never looked back.

I was one of the assholes, by the way. Stoned, belligerent and dishonest - all the qualities you'd look for in somebody to despise.
Who would have thought it from reading your posts. Time and maturity can change people (if they let it) and you are proof of that. I think you're one of the gentlest, most sincere, most caring people posting on Dream Views.

.

Mes Tarrant

05-28-2007, 08:45 PM

He's younger than me, he's a different race than myself, he's a different faith than myself and, with all those differences.. he took on a women who had been battered and bruised, who'd had her confidence shattered and who had a toddler and not much else. On our first date, he came to the house, I opened the door, took him to my son's room and said, "this is my son.. he's been through a lot and HE is the most important thing in my life.. decide now if you can handle that". He looked at my sleeping son and then back at me and we've been together since that moment on. He stood with me through more than you can imagine. I've learned that what matters most for me in a life partner .. is does he make me feel good about myself when he's with me (and when he's not). Does he make me laugh and does he laugh with me. Can I talk to him about what's bothering me and does he really listen and at least try to understand. My husband went from having no children and no one to worry about but himself, to having a ready made family and he didn't miss a beat. Damn, I love him..

Wow Clairity, that is amazing. And inspirational. Props to your husband.

Clairity

05-28-2007, 09:01 PM

Wow Clairity, that is amazing. And inspirational. Props to your husband.
Yep.. he's definately a keeper! :content:

.

05-29-2007, 03:40 AM

On our first date, he came to the house, I opened the door, took him to my son's room and said, "this is my son.. he's been through a lot and HE is the most important thing in my life.. decide now if you can handle that". He looked at my sleeping son and then back at me and we've been together since that moment on.

Well, this is starting MY day off all choked up.

Talk about having your priorities in order and being honest with yourself and others. And look what it got you!

MercurialDream

05-29-2007, 05:54 AM

And let me just say, I feel for you both Clairity and Pj. Any sort of loss or abuse is difficult.

... here I am thinking that no one else has gone through stuff like me, but indeed there are people who've experienced worse and recovered less.

Anyways, another question... what happened to all the friends you ever met in high school? Did you keep in contact? If you did... did the 'nerds' become successful? The assholes never making it past co-manager at Wallmart? I'm dying to know.

Be careful with your words, or at least be aware of life and all of its unexpected twists and turns. Fate, destiny, horrific events and loss can happen to anyone at any level without warning. More people have experienced pain and loss than you can ever imagine. I left my marriage because I was being beaten and raped, repeatedly. In front of my children. Not a topic for this thread.

The kids from highschool, all became and failed to become random things. Who you think will be all high and mighty, some did and some didn't. All you thought were losers, most are, some aren't. The guys who you think are dorky or plain looking... some still are and some are absolutely gorgeous. I am sorry to say this, but all the trival bullshit in highschool, is indeed pointless as Moonbeam said. The only thing that sticks, are the TRUE friendships made. Not the huge circle of friends, but the few honest and good ones, they remain. But they remain with the efforts of you both. Keep those, they will last a lifetime if you want them too. The rest of the 'hip' crowd... pffttt, whatever. Have fun, this is the time to do so.

------

pj: when you found the one you are now very happily married to (I truly envy you), did you know from the beginning that she was perfect for you? If so, how? What told you that you found your soul-mate? This is of particular concern/interest to me at the present time.

I know I am not pj, but... I was young, too young, when I got married. I say "too young" meaning not so much 'age' as emotionally young. I thought I knew what love was, I thought that I knew my husband, but I didn't, or at least he changed in horrible ways from the person I married. I was 23 and he was 24. Be sure that you want to be married for the right reasons, not just because you want to be 'married'. How do you 'know' ? Hmm.. some people will say "you just know", but I am not sure I can honestly say that. I believe you take risks, and you have to weigh in those risks and decide if it is something that you are willingly going into knowing that it takes work. Lots and lots of work, to keep a marriage together. It isn't all fairytales and glass slippers. You get to see the VERY ugly side of your partner, and they get to see yours too. Can you handle that? Will you stick it out and help them, selflessly.. when you have no energy left at all in your body, will you still do your best to show and give love so that they will someday return the favor, even if you can't see that day yet?

Soulmate... is a very romantic word. I use it alot in poetry, as do 99% of writers. But when you use it in real life, watch out for the "Hallmark" trap!! Relationships can be dripping with romance and excitement, but it isn't like that ALL the time, and a 'soulmate' isn't necessarily what one thinks they are, in my opinion. I think a soulmate takes on many forms... a lover, a best friend, a pet who never lets you down when you come home from work, a random stranger who you meet only briefly but you immediately connect with on some level. I believe in multiple soulmates who serve random purposes. It's a great word, a great concept but don't base your life on 'finding a soulmate'.. they come to you, more often then you realize.

----------

As for a personal note on love... I believe in it, I do. I know I will never marry again, just as a personal choice. I have 4 young children and that is just too much for a man to take on, too much of a ready-made family. Plus they have seen much, they have seen their mother hit and abused and I just cant put them through the risks a relationship has on it right now. Maybe after they all are out of school (the youngest are the twins, almost 4yrs old) I will consider a relationship, but until then, no.

Burns

05-29-2007, 02:03 PM

So... how did your family cope through the Depression? :chuckle: j/k :wink:

You asked about my family, and I can actually answer that. (I just spent the whole morning with my folks, who were teens during the Great Depression. They would certainly qualify as family!)

My dad's folks came from Sicily in the early teens. Dad was born in Detroit in 1918, during the monstrous flu epidemic. Like many of his generation, he has two birthdays - the day he was actually born on the kitchen table, and the day he was taken to the hospital for his birth certificate.

My grandfather was a shoemaker in Sicily, and the hard times they left behind made Depression era Detroit still look pretty good. Grandpa had become a pattern maker for Henry Ford, and was one of the fortunate few who held his job to some degree through the 1930's. As a result, there was always bread and pasta, and their home was open to the neighborhood. Anybody who was hungry could go there for a meal. They raised chickens, made Dago Red wine, made their own beer, and in general did all right.

Being a kid in Depression-era Detroit was an amazing thing. The Mafia and the Purple Gang were battling it out over the "trade routes" for Canadian whiskey, and Detroit was the center of it all with Windsor being right across the river. My dad became a pool hustler - the "straight guy" who would get a game started before the shark came in. They were all "rum runners," and saw more than their share of excitement as a result.

My mom's world was very different. The depression hit the Copper Country of Michigan's upper peninsula very heard. She was sent to Detroit to live with relatives who were faring better, and as a result met my dad.

My folks wll tell you that being teenagers in the depression was happy and interesting, and that they were much more content than kids today living what can only be seen from their perspective as lavish and decadent lifestyles. They had little and expected less and were grateful for every meal and the roof over their heads. They had a strong sense of community and found ways to enjoy and celebrate life without spending money they didn't have.

That's how my family fared during the Great Depression.
heh, my reply was kinda meant as a "old geezer" joke about how you and your parents fared through the Depression, but fair enough. :)

My great grandma (now deceased) lived through the Depression and she and her family never used banks again. We found piles and piles of money hidden all over the house after she died and we had to clean it out. Under mattresses, in ceiling rafters, old boxes, even hidden under the kitchen tablecloth! They just never trusted banks with their money again after they lost everything.

Clairity

05-29-2007, 02:53 PM

MercurialDream, there is just so much truth in your posting. I want to thank you for trusting us enough to share so much of your personal history. You're a perfect example of "what doesn't kill us.. only makes us stronger". You lady.. are one hell of a strong woman.

.

Amethyst Star

05-29-2007, 04:51 PM

This is the side of DV that has kept me here, seeing people who aren't afraid to be real. Thanks everyone for sharing your stories with us :)

I'm only 22 and came from a very loving family. My parents will have been married 30 years come September and for that I consider myself very blessed. It really wasn't until I went to college and started meeting people from different walks of life before I realized just how blessed my life truly is. I've never been abused (physically or verbally), my parents are still together, I have three wonderful siblings (though I wish we were a bit closer), and I've never had to worry about going hungry or where I was going to sleep at night.

I share this for those of you who are having a hard time believing that such a life is possible. My life may not be all daisies and roses, but it is possible, despite all obstacles, to raise a healthy family even in the world today. Too many people see what lies before them and wonder if life really is worth living any more. It is, but only if you're willing to open your eyes and live long enough to see it.

Thanks for sharing, Clairity, pj, Mecurial Dream, and everyone else. :hug:

Oneironaught

05-29-2007, 07:00 PM

I know I am not pj, but... I was young, too young, when I got married. I say "too young" meaning not so much 'age' as emotionally young. I thought I knew what love was, I thought that I knew my husband, but I didn't, or at least he changed in horrible ways from the person I married. I was 23 and he was 24. Be sure that you want to be married for the right reasons, not just because you want to be 'married'. How do you 'know' ? Hmm.. some people will say "you just know", but I am not sure I can honestly say that. I believe you take risks, and you have to weigh in those risks and decide if it is something that you are willingly going into knowing that it takes work. Lots and lots of work, to keep a marriage together. It isn't all fairytales and glass slippers. You get to see the VERY ugly side of your partner, and they get to see yours too. Can you handle that? Will you stick it out and help them, selflessly.. when you have no energy left at all in your body, will you still do your best to show and give love so that they will someday return the favor, even if you can't see that day yet?

Soulmate... is a very romantic word. I use it alot in poetry, as do 99% of writers. But when you use it in real life, watch out for the "Hallmark" trap!! Relationships can be dripping with romance and excitement, but it isn't like that ALL the time, and a 'soulmate' isn't necessarily what one thinks they are, in my opinion. I think a soulmate takes on many forms... a lover, a best friend, a pet who never lets you down when you come home from work, a random stranger who you meet only briefly but you immediately connect with on some level. I believe in multiple soulmates who serve random purposes. It's a great word, a great concept but don't base your life on 'finding a soulmate'.. they come to you, more often then you realize.
You may not be pj but I still value your words and I thank you for your response. I'm a dreamer. I want so bad for some one to be manufactured to my liking. I want so much for there to be some one who thinks as I do and who values the same things as I. I know that person is out there but, where? Alright, so I sound like a whiny baby; I'm OK with that. I know what I want just not where or how to get it.

The main reason I posed my question is because a very special member of Dreamviews has made me reconsider my position in live. They have shown me that maybe my lack of faith for others is somewhat misguided and unfair. And maybe, just maybe, my special some one isn't as far away as I once thought. I'm just afraid and uncertain about what will become of my current pursuits or even if my efforts are being properly directed and focused.

Aw hell, never mind me. I'm just rambling at this point. I'm so damned confused right now.

05-29-2007, 07:32 PM

heh, my reply was kinda meant as a "old geezer" joke about how you and your parents fared through the Depression, but fair enough. :)

My great grandma (now deceased) lived through the Depression and she and her family never used banks again. We found piles and piles of money hidden all over the house after she died and we had to clean it out. Under mattresses, in ceiling rafters, old boxes, even hidden under the kitchen tablecloth! They just never trusted banks with their money again after they lost everything.

Did I mention that I answer rhetorical questions too? It's one of my specialties.

Yep - and I'll bet you also found piles of margarine containers, used aluminum foil, aluminum pie pans, plastic bread bags... and a lot of other things you probably couldn't figure out...

Clairity

05-29-2007, 07:45 PM

Yep - and I'll bet you also found piles of margarine containers, used aluminum foil, aluminum pie pans, plastic bread bags... and a lot of other things you probably couldn't figure out...
My mom had 12 brothers and sisters, lived in a 3 bedroom house, they slept 3 in a bed and ate meals in shifts. My grandfather was a coal miner and to hear them tell it they didn't know they were poor. Hand-me-downs was a way of life but the kids always had new clothes at Easter and got new shoes at the start of each school year.

pj, my mom TO THIS DAY still saves margarine containers, used aluminum foil, pie pans and plastic bread bags! She saved green stamps until they stopped issuing them and no amount of food (no matter how small) was ever thrown out (she is the queen of "leftovers")! :D

Edit: Once I read my answer about the number of bedrooms, I thought that can't be right so I called my mom. Yep, it was 3 bedroom.. but they also had a basement and some kids slept down there. Also in those days.. you got married and out of the house by 19 so there were always kids coming and going!

.

2Fruits

05-30-2007, 04:13 AM

What do you wish you had done/not done/learned etc. when you were a teenager?

05-30-2007, 05:35 AM

What do you wish you had done/not done/learned etc. when you were a teenager?

I've already pretty well covered this in a previous question for my case. There is precious little about my teen years that I am proud of.

You know what though... I wouldn't be who I am today if it weren't for those years and those mistakes. If a genii appeared today and asked if I would like to go back and change it all, I wouldn't risk it.

MercurialDream

05-30-2007, 06:06 AM

What do you wish you had done/not done/learned etc. when you were a teenager?

I've made tons of mistakes, but I wouldn't go back and change anything. Of all the flaws in my past, and all fun mistakes (and not fun mistakes) I will make someday..I'm alright with keeping them. I've done some amazing things, and some really really really stupid things. I've been hurt and I have hurt others without care or cause. That's just life. Sometimes we are the King, other times the fool. Today, I'm the King!

MD

(edit)....however, I guess the only thing I would have hoped to learn sooner than I did, was that everyone has feelings that should be treated with respect. When I was a teen, I was a snobby lil bitch. I was a cheerleader for 4 years, co capt my junior year, capt my senior year, head of the pep club...you name it, I was involved. I had my circle of friends and thats who mattered. I was careless with the feelings of others when I was younger. Some of my friends still haven't snapped out of that phase, but most of us have, thank goodness. Peer pressure is tough at that age, I know, but try not to be a jerk to someone for no reason other than your friends are, or it appears to make you look cool. You don't have to be everyones friend, just don't seek out negative reactions. Its hurtful and not helpful for anyone...anyone.

Seeker

05-30-2007, 06:17 AM

If I could go back and give advice to my teenage self, I would say something like this:

"You need to have more confidence and believe in yourself, you are just as good as all those other kids. Also, don't worry so much about getting a girlfriend and getting laid, focus more on your future, the perfect woman is waiting for you."

05-30-2007, 06:17 AM

(edit)....however, I guess the only thing I would have hoped to learn sooner than I did, was that everyone has feelings that should be treated with respect.

Those words should be emblazoned across the doors of every high school everywhere. You nailed it, and you are right.

I wish I had been more aware of others feelings as well, and learned to respect them earlier. Having no respect for myself, however... it made it tough to even understand what that would have meant or involved.

Great reply.

Vex Kitten

05-30-2007, 07:33 AM

The one thing I would change about my teenage years is I'd stay a virgin. I only had sex out of curiosity mainly. And it was a very akward experience that sort of turned me off to certain things. If I could tell my teen self one thing I'd say... Don't give it up girl. At least not just because you're curious about it.

There are several other things I'm not proud of but those, I think, are the things that helped me to toughen up and learn to not take shit from others so I think I'd let those situations be, as horrid as some of them were.

CoLd BlooDed

05-30-2007, 06:16 PM

You know, I'm sixteen, and I think I'm one of the only ones to still be a virgin. It's not that I don't want to have sex, it's just that I'm not worried about it at this time. If I get it, I get it, but I don't go hunting for it. Plus, girls like the fact that I'm 'clean'. :tongue:

And you know, it's funny you guys should be talking about feelings and stuff. Since I used to be a huge loser (literally - I was friendless all through grade 6), I've come to understand why it's so important to treat people nicely. To this day, I'm nice to everyone, regardless of their "status". God, I hate that word.

Alright, here's another question. Do you guys still feel as if life is going by faster and faster? This isn't to make you feel 'old', because you guys aren't, but because I've noticed since I was in middle school, things have just sped up. It's hard to believe I'm almost in grade 12.

Moonbeam

05-30-2007, 06:33 PM

05-30-2007, 07:03 PM

Alright, here's another question. Do you guys still feel as if life is going by faster and faster? This isn't to make you feel 'old', because you guys aren't, but because I've noticed since I was in middle school, things have just sped up. It's hard to believe I'm almost in grade 12.

In a word, yes... but I've gained some control over that.

I think it happens because each year becomes a smaller and smaller part of our lives, so by reference, we perceive a geometric increase in the flow of time. But that's not all of it. I also think it happens because it is easy to let our brains slow down, which doesn't have to happen. The slower we think, the slower we perceive and the faster time seems to go.

A favorite exercise for me is just to count off the seconds in a minute. A minute is a LONG time! We lose track of that so easily. When I want to slow things down, I do the same things that you might do in a lucid dream to stabilize it - touch, smell, look... engage all the senses in the NOW. I also do my best to shut that "inner voice" up, because it distracts me from all there is to experience. Doing these things slows the flow of time for me.

Oneironaught

05-30-2007, 08:40 PM

Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The farther you get into it, the faster it goes.
And the more it gets used up the more full of crap it becomes :D

I think it happens because each year becomes a smaller and smaller part of our lives, so by reference, we perceive a geometric increase in the flow of time.
Given how cliche' "time speeds up as you get older" is as a perceptual notion, I'm impressed to finally hear an explanation that makes sense. In the pure sense of "time flying" I believe you nailed it perfectly there.

MercurialDream

05-31-2007, 06:24 AM

Alright, here's another question. Do you guys still feel as if life is going by faster and faster? This isn't to make you feel 'old', because you guys aren't, but because I've noticed since I was in middle school, things have just sped up. It's hard to believe I'm almost in grade 12.

When I read this question, I rolled my eyes and said "ohhh yeah" out loud. When I did my son said "what? what mom?", haha. Yes, time does go by faster and faster. I think this is because the older you get the more responsibilities you have and there is more you HAVE to do, instead of things that you WANT to do, so your mind gets fixed on what NEEDS to be done before what youd LIKE to get done. So, when that happens, you have less time (some time, just less than youd like) to do those other things, so it feels like time is slipping away on you. I'm always wanting more time with my children that doesn't include chores or 'parenting duties', something that is more fun and carefree. I make that time happen, because we all need to be a kid again and they need a parent with a fun spirit. This cuts down on my personal time, which is true for any parent. So.. yeah time flies faster and faster as you get older, but you just have to grasp your life by the neck and say "DAMNIT.. I WILL MAKE TIME FOR MYSELF!" which is why I am leaving for Hawaii in less than two weeks! Heehehe.. yeah me!

So, please enjoy life as much as possible, whenever possible. Doesnt matter if you are 16 or 60...or heck, even older than that, like pj! (HIDES!!)

*winks*

MD

05-31-2007, 06:33 AM

So, please enjoy life as much as possible, whenever possible. Doesnt matter if you are 16 or 60...or heck, even older than that, like pj! (HIDES!!)

*winks*

MD

:gator:

(That's rapidly becoming this ..ahem.. 46-year-old's favorite emoticon.)

octoberchild

05-31-2007, 08:58 AM

I’ve taken more time than I probably should to read all of the posts here, considering I am supposed to be working! :o

WOW! What a wonderful group of people there are here!!:D

pj and Moonbeam---I can’t even begin to fathom what it would be like to unexpectantly find someone you love dead.

MercurialDream and Clarity—you are both brave, strong women!

Two of the worst times in my life were; the death of my father when I was 25. He died in a hospital of bronchopneumonia three days after major surgery. He would have been 58 in 11 days from his death.
My mother’s diagnosis of “dementia” at the beginning of 2002. It was just a nice way of saying “Alzheimer’s Disease.” She was 75 at the time. She is now 81. She does not know who I am, but I sure know who she is!:smitten:

I do not have just one happiest time in my life--- I’ve experienced many and continue to experience them!!! I’m blessed , and I am aware of it and am truly thankful every day. Thank you, Lord!

Clairity

05-31-2007, 09:08 AM

Two of the worst times in my life were; the death of my father when I was 25. He died in a hospital of bronchopneumonia three days after major surgery. He would have been 58 in 11 days from his death.
My mother’s diagnosis of “dementia” at the beginning of 2002. It was just a nice way of saying “Alzheimer’s Disease.” She was 75 at the time. She is now 81. She does not know who I am, but I sure know who she is! :smitten:
[/SIZE][/FONT]
Octoberchild, I am so sorry to hear about your parents. I sincerely believe that somewhere deep inside your mother still knows you.. (you're her child).

I’m blessed , and I am aware of it and am truly thankful every day. Thank you, Lord!
Amen.
.

octoberchild

05-31-2007, 09:17 AM

Octoberchild, I am so sorry to hear about your parents. I sincerely believe that somewhere deep inside your mother still knows you.. (you're her child).
.

Your reply brought a smile to my face, because I also believe that deep inside her, she knows me, but just cannot put it in words anymore.:) Thanks, friend!

NeAvO

05-31-2007, 09:24 AM

At what age ould you consider to be classed as "The older crowd"?

vee

05-31-2007, 01:50 PM

Howdy Yall, I'm so old I'm almost too tired to reply. (ha ha) Unfortunately I am 58, almost 60 and what I just said about being tired has been true for the last couple of days. And doggone if I know why. My energy level has just been shot here of late. Within the last five years I have had five major operations.
After every one of them I sure was surprised at waking up alive. So I better count my blessings. Lord am I the oldest one on this forum? You would think I would know stuff huh?
I do know that time is moving faster. Faster than I'm willing to keep up with. One consolation, when I dream I am always a 21 year old. Or a young adult. Has any other old folks noticed this? Im just curious.
Vee

05-31-2007, 03:04 PM

Hey, Vee - welcome to the Old Crowd Thread! I'm sorry you're feeling tired. I've been under the weather myself. Going to lay down in a few minutes.

At what age ould you consider to be classed as "The older crowd"?

I rather arbitrarily set the bar at 40... but that isn't a hard line. I really do think most people "grow up" for REAL some time in their 30's. If you've made that transition in your life, then you are qualified to post here. Nobody can make that determination but you.

vee

05-31-2007, 03:56 PM

Oh, I guess anybody over the age of 50 could qualify. But if your 40 and when you dream you dream your a young 21 I guess that would count. How about, does anybody in there dreams dream they are younger than they are? Also I dont think anybody really feels old until they get up around my age. Even if they are 50 or over. In our dreams I dont ever remember recalling that I ever thought about age. Odd that. Only that I do know that I was always a young woman. I wonder if its that way for men too?
Vee

05-31-2007, 04:46 PM

My age in dreams varies wildly. Last night I dreamed I was in my teens. Often I am my present age. Occasionally I am very young. It doesn't seem to be consistent.

Moonbeam

05-31-2007, 05:24 PM

How about, does anybody in there dreams dream they are younger than they are?

I think I am usually late teen/early twenties in my dreams. The age I always feel when I'm awake is about 30. I think I felt that way from about about age 23. (I'm almost 43 now, really. So I've been 30 for 20 years.)

NeAvO

05-31-2007, 06:31 PM

I think I am usually late teen/early twenties in my dreams. The age I always feel when I'm awake is about 30. I think I felt that way from about about age 23. (I'm almost 43 now, really. So I've been 30 for 20 years.)
Arhh that explains it :p

05-31-2007, 06:48 PM

Now you've got me wondering if this isn't a universal phenomenon with women. (Asks wifeling...)

She dreams she's the age she is now.

And she feels like she's 35. (She looks it, too.)

Twoshadows

05-31-2007, 08:06 PM

This is a really cool thread. There are a lot of things I could reply to, but it will take forever so I will start with a few.

My dream age varies. Often I am a teenager. But other times I am my current age.

Other times, I seem to feel confused in dreams as to exactly how old I am. I remember a dream where I was kissing a teenage guy because I thought I was a teenager myself. Then I started feeling like something was not quite right, until I finally thought, "Whoa, I'm too old for him! How could I have forgotten how old I am??" :confused: That was before I learned about lucidity. Hopefully now something like that would make me become lucid.

I'm not quite the "older crowd", but I feel "older" on this board. The age I feel like when I'm awake is probably early-mid twenties. In reality I'm over 30.

And for the question on time feeling like it is speeding up---that is soooo true. Pj had an interesting explanation. I had never thought about it like that before.

And the question about going back and giving my teen self advice. I would mostly just pat myself on the back and say, "Keep up the good work. It's going to all pay off." I was actually a very nice teenager. I had great parents who were great examples to me and taught me well. Sometimes people would tease me for being too "goody-goody", but most of them later told me that they really respected me for it. So I'm glad I never gave into peer pressure. There seemed to be quite a few people who seemed to make it their goal to get me do something against my morals (swearing, drinking, sex, etc).

I also agree with the advice others gave about not worrying about trying to impress other kids in high school, because it just really doesn't matter. Most will be forgotten the moment you graduate. But those special friends who love you no matter what--hang on to them. They are the ones that matter. The true friends are the ones you don't have too impress. I have two very special high school friends that I have kept in touch with. And I'm so thankful for their friendship.

I'll probably add more to this later.....

MercurialDream

05-31-2007, 09:11 PM

At what age ould you consider to be classed as "The older crowd"?

I think pj is right when he said it depends on the person. I am 32, but I have survived through enough and have had enough life experiences and emotional hurdles to bounce me into the older crowd. Honestly, I did not 'know' myself until I was about 28 or so. That is about when I started to figure out who I was, what I wanted, didn't want and what 'tripped my trigger'. Each year since then has been good and bad, but educational just the same. Each day that passes I learn a bit more about me as a parent and as a woman.

:okbyenow:

Amethyst Star

05-31-2007, 09:26 PM

Clairity

05-31-2007, 10:45 PM

I have a question. What are some good conversation starters for work? I just started a new job and having just come out of college the only questions I can really think of are "Are you going to school?" or "What are you studying?" or "How old are you?" but I don't really want to ask those. I don't know if people are still in high school or what not.

Anyway, got some topics? I need friends!
How about, "How long have you worked here?", What do you do?", "Where do people go for lunch around here?", etc.

Basically anything that will get people to reply with more than a "yes" or "no" response would be good.

As for the question about how old you are in dreams.. I don't think I ever "really" noticed. In fact, I'm not even really sure that I look like "me" in my lucid dreams. The only thing I do know for sure is that I have never been a "child" in my dreams.
.

Amethyst Star

06-01-2007, 12:08 AM

Well, the problem is that the coffee shop's only been open about a month, so I already know the answer, we're all baristas, and I've lived here about... wow, 14 years.

06-01-2007, 05:33 AM

Well, the problem is that the coffee shop's only been open about a month, so I already know the answer, we're all baristas, and I've lived here about... wow, 14 years.

The art of conversation is getting people to talk about their favorite subject of all - themselves. Show genuine interest, smile warmly, make eye contact, and a simple "how are you" can go from a blunt "ok" to a dissertation about how a person's entire life has culminated in this moment.

A complement is always a great conversation starter. "I've really noticed that customers seem to respond to you so positively! How do you do that?" "How come you can make frothing the milk seem so easy?" (Asking for help and working alongside people is also a fabulous way to get to know them and let them get to know you.)

The thing about any of it is to be real. Don't try just making it up or you'll get caught. The key to knowing people is to be genuinely interested in them.