Other worlds like ours? Other Universes?

[Gwendolyn]

I was just thinking about evolution and how our world came to be. There has to be other galaxies and solar systems very much like ours....Planets far away that are just as advanced (if not more advanced) than earth. I know to some this may sound absurd, but there could be planets in the same plight concerning discovering life in far away galaxies, not having enough technology to travel so far in space. I mean, if life on our earth essentially formed ( and I am going completely on what my AP Biology Book says despite any religious beliefs) from various gasses on the early earth's atmosphere, than who is to say that other worlds have not experienced this as well? I'm not saying that every one of these worlds had people evolve on them...They may have other intelligent life forms, I am not referring to the generic "alien". Also, what if there are black holes in space which lead to whole other universes?? Again, I know the prospect of it sounds absurd.......I am sure that others on this forum have pondered this besides me.

Thoughts, anyone?? :?:

[spicefiend]

I have! :)

I don't believe that this earth, this universe was a cosmic accident and I also don't believe creation ended with just humans either. But I like to think there are other beings out there that stretch out on the grass on a summer evening and fix their eyes on a really bright star. Earth perhaps? And they ponder the same question... is there other life out there?

:)

[jacobo]

kind of a broad statement there. i don't think we are the only ones in this world... i don't think other life forms are anymore advanced than us though.

[spicefiend]

Sorry, I don't mean to be broad, I get a bit abstract from time to time. :undecided: I thought Gwendolyn had a good idea and threw in my two cents.

[Gwendolyn]

I didn't think you were too abstract. I know exactly what you are saying. I don't know if our world was a cosmic accident or not, but it just seems too unrealistic that there are not other worlds in other galaxies in other solar systems that are not ,in a sense, unlike we are. The technologies might not be the same, or even as advanced, but there has to be some world which we could say consisted of intelligent life.

[Joseph_Stalin]

They probably only differ in adaptation of technologies, and if so, slightly. I mean, say their winds were like earth's and they had similiar woods to us. Their first airplane might not be so different.

I'd like to also see if they met any Jesus-es for example (or any other god, just put it there). Like each created world gets one incarnation of Jesus. For us, it was about 2000 years ago. For them, who knows, it might not even have happened yet. (remember, substitute any info here with another religon and you're fine)


Also, it's fun to think "maybe if the universe was a little like star trek". Because in that show, all of the races have devolped warp engines at roughly the same time, which is sort of showing the unity of everyone I geuss.

[AirRick101]

With all those stars and galaxies out there, nothing is wrong with hypothesizing there might be other lifes forms that are tangible.

I cannot say what this world came from...one on hand, it doesn't seem like an accident because everything is in such nice running order (in general). And the animals of the earth are symmetrical in shape and stuff, and we somehow, miraculously have an ability to procreate offspring perfectly.

LOL, and other people say that our accident of a world had a chance of one out of a billion, and yes, I am ok with the possibility that we were lucky and got those odds down as well!

[Gwendolyn]

I don't know where our world came from, but I do know that it is in such good working order because of what survival of the fittest has done for the species' of the world......But the possibilities are endless on what could be going on. What about other universes?? Wow....I mean there very well could be.....It is also a neat thought, although I am not a religious person, that on those other planets they may also have worshiped gods or saviors, and it would be interesting to see if their gods differed from the gods in our world.

[Alric]

Even if we where 1 out of a billion, there could easily be more than a billion stars. Just because they are smart though doesn't mean they are like us. Maybe they don't mind the rain so live outside without a house heh.

[Gwendolyn]

I'm not saying they are. They could be completely different than us and still have some form of civilization....

[spicefiend]

I cannot say what this world came from...one on hand, it doesn't seem like an accident because everything is in such nice running order (in general).[/b]

It is in such nice running order, isn't it? :) All that we're made of is so complex, but flows so smoothly together. Its quite beautiful, actually. Downright miraculous, as I see it. I can imagine folks on another planet pondering the same thing. Heh, and debating the same thing!

"Hey Zork? Check out that star right there... yeah there... do you think there's people like us living on it?"

"Interesting concept, Xuoq. Maybe."

"Do you think they're driving cars and flying aircrafts like we are?"

"That could be possible, Xuoq."

"Do you think they could have figured out Quantum teleportation yet?"

"That's a little far fetched, Xuoq."


As for religion, why not? Who can look up at those stars in all of it's celestial majesty and not have, to quote Einstein, some type of a 'cosmic religious feeling?'

[Gwendolyn]

That's a wonderful thought

[Nova]

for one thing I believe it is very possible that there is life out there besides our own... And if they did not go through a 1000 year dark age they are defenitly more advanced then we are... However earth is a miracle on it's own, we are at a perfect distance from the sun, a lil closer we would all burn to death, a little father we would be frozen.

The chances of that happening in other solar systems is very very thin. also since Mars and Venus help keep us were we are the possiblilties drop some what. There are 100 billion stars in our galaxy alone so there is a chance. But dont forget the galaxy is chaotic and in our galaxy alone there is a chance that there cannot be life on other planets at all because of our universe.

Now on the black hole other dimensions thing... I dont thinks it's possible, our universe is infinite in hight, width, and length so there is no place anywhere for another universe since ours can be the only one there is.

But there is a chance of other life, God did not say he didn't create other life forms and he didn't write every single thing he did in the bible so there may be a chance.

[Gwendolyn]

I'm not even referring to our galaxy, but I think your point is very valid. I meant like out there in our infinite universe......There are millions of other galaxies. What about in those? There are other suns and moons out there. In every galaxy, there is a solar system and in every solar system a planet that is perfectly relative to the sun like Earth. Not to close or far away. This is exactly the reason earth was able to sustain life....why not all those other perfectly positioned planets?

[Nova]

Well yeah. the problem is varibles... This is most liekly the only place in the universe capable of sustaining life.....


And why? Well for one thing most galaxies out there have alot of supgiant "old" starts and they cannot sustain life, the newer ones have to much radiation.


Now I think it is possible... but highly unlikely.

[Gwendolyn]

We don't have the technology to tell if all other galaxies couldn't sustain life. And if we did, the probability is unlikely that we are the ONLY ones who could.......

[spicefiend]

We don't have the technology to tell if all other galaxies couldn't sustain life. And if we did, the probability is unlikely that we are the ONLY ones who could.......[/b]

Yes, I agree. We don't even have this planet figured out yet, so I'm less likely to think Earth is the only place in the universe capable of sustaining life. Unless Nova (delightful name) is meaning 'galaxy' in place of universe. It goes without saying that our rover on Mars, high powered telescopes, and probes have seen only a little, probaley a hair's width of what is out there.

We may not have the technology now, but its coming! Though not soon enough as far as I'm concerned. :D
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,128...2,60674,00.html (http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,60674,00.html)

Let's take this discussion in another direction. What if planet's like Mercurey or Pluto could be a dwelling place for some other kind of organism? Not carbon-based lifeforms like us, but beings made of an entirely different substance. The universe is a great mystery, why not?

[Gwendolyn]

I would say it would be very possible. I mean, the universe is an awfully huge place, as is our solar system. Life forms could very well evolve there, and adapt to those planets. Just like life here did....

[Joseph_Stalin]

Ahh, nothing like a thousand year dark age to stunt technological growth.

Pfft, we should already have metropolises on mars by now!

By the way, I think that there could have been much more space travel and such if it wasn't for the Air Force or something dropping their connection with NASA (I think that's how it went, correct me if not). The funding would be enormous, because everyone in the government "needs" to get better weapons and planes. I think the AirForce wanted some really uber-stealth planes from NASA or something, and let's face it--most of today's technologies would not be here if it wasn't for wars. Things like computers, and jet airliners, and even rockets and space travel would not exist. Even primitive wars made way for better technologies. Better swords--new methods of getting resources like iron. More iron--beter housing structures and such. Etc., etc., etc...

If we really wanted to find those habitable planets that might even have life (microscopic, or insanely advanced, or somewhere in between), we would need a way to quickly sort out planets. Like "Habitable" "Will be habitable in X-amount of years" "Non-Habitable". This way we can easily explore them without (for lack of a better word) "wasting" time.


And think of this: What species in their right mind would dare interrupt the progress of a less-advanced one?

I mean, come on, it's practically a free experiment on the progress of sentient beings. They could then answer questions that we have like "how was religion formed, language, technologies (if they are similiar or the same, or different), etc., etc.

Besides, even if one alien species did come and give us future technology, everyone would fight over who would share it, and now we're in for even worse wars than before (new weapons are disasters...). Plus, we wouldn't know where to start with all these new ways of doing things.

Anyway, I don't think they would because giving your technological secrets if like giving a stranger keys to your house. You just don't do it.

[Gwendolyn]

That is a very valid point. In some ways I agree with you, and naturally in others, I don't. I agree that if there were any alien species we would find out no technological or governmental secrets. However, I do not agree that if the Air Force had joined with Nasa, we'd already have metropolises on Mars. I mean, of course we would have progressed a lot more, but I still think that technology wouldn't have advanced THAT far. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I enjoyed reading your post.

[Joseph_Stalin]

Sorry if I confused you, I meant if the dark age hadn't taken so long.

What I said with NASA was just that there would be more emphasis on space travel and better spacecrafts and such.

Thanks for your comments, though. :)

[spicefiend]

J. Stalin has a good point. There could have been much more space travel, but it slowed down quite a bit. :( I'm not sure about the Air Force breaking with NASA, but that's possible. Perhaps it was funding or recession or loss of public interest, particularly after the Cold War ended. The collapse of the Soviet Union may have taken out that competitive edge.

I am hoping that SpaceShipOne or one of the other competiters for the XPrize will succeed in sending a man into space and back safely. The thought of it is thrilling! Its like another race to the moon, except this time no beaucratic government is involved. Its privately funded, folks. It also seems line a genuine competition. A 10 million dollar purse hardly seems worth while considering what it might cost to make these ships, to fuel them, maintain them, and repair them. They have to have another motive. Which individual will make it to space this time?

Will SpaceShipOne do it? We'll find out June 21st! I can't wait to hear the news! :yumdumdoodledum:

[Gwendolyn]

Originally posted by Joseph_Stalin
Sorry if I confused you, I meant if the dark age hadn't taken so long.

What I said with NASA was just that there would be more emphasis on space travel and better spacecrafts and such.

Thanks for your comments, though. :)

Ah...Ok. I see what you mean now! Well, I do think it would of been possible if there had been a lot more emphasis. Thanks for clarifying!

[Joseph_Stalin]

No problem :D


About the XPrize, that just looks cool! I saw this on TechTv (now G4TechTv :() a while back, and it's really fascinating. Of course, the motivation being money, and not a cold war, makes it a whole lot different. Too bad people aren't scared crapless enough to start building better spacecraft. Although this is the first step to private space travel. :)

[spicefiend]

Tech TV, wish I could watch it. :cry: The vast majority of TV disgust me, so I refuse to get a satellite just for the few channels I'd actually want.

I don't think that the Xprize competition is about money. At least not entirely. As I said earlier, a 10 million dollar prize doesn't seem like it would compensate for the cost of building/flying these spacecrafts. Also, one of the funders behind SpaceShipOne is Paul Allen. 10 million is pocket change to him, I think he'd just like to get the ball rolling.

I suppose it could also be considered as a business oppertunity. Currently, flying to space is limited to astronauts or people with an extra 30 million to spend. If spacetravel became part of the market and was affordable, who wouldn't jump on the chance! :D

[Evanescent]

I would that would be so awesome.

[Alric]

Part of the problem is everyone got bored. They where like "WOW we went to the moon!" then a month later they like "oh been there, done that, who cares about space travel".

Some people think there is life right here in our solar system, of course it most likely small stuff. They found moons thats have liquid water and stuff on them around jupiter or something, which is the most important thing for life.

[incubusfunkman]

if you ask me it is absurd to think that we are the only intellegant life forms in all that is in the physical existance, with all that space out there , there is bound to be more things at least similar to what we are, more life with some intellegants, i wont doubt it one bit.

[Evanescent]

I doubt there are others. It is too absurd for me. I am logical.

[Gwendolyn]

Originally posted by Joseph_Stalin
No problem :D


About the XPrize, that just looks cool! I saw this on TechTv (now G4TechTv :() a while back, and it's really fascinating. Of course, the motivation being money, and not a cold war, makes it a whole lot different. Too bad people aren't scared crapless enough to start building better spacecraft. Although this is the first step to private space travel. :)

I have been keeping up with the X prize. It's really neat. I love tech TV....

[Joseph_Stalin]

Yeah, some of those people are really into it (the working of spaceships). How can you blame them? They are making history here. Will they not be the first non-government funded people in space?

Too bad TechTV got raped by Comcast. If you ask me I don't like watching subpar programming...

[spicefiend]

I was having this private spaceflight converation with a fellow at work this morning. It evolved into a discussion about technology or lack thereof with spacetravel, much like what we've been discussing here. We also started talking about the moonlanding and those out there who believe the whole episode was faked. So I asked him what he believed.

What he said was pretty interesting. He said that the Spirit rover trucking along Mars right now is proof enough for him that the moon landing was real. The 'experience' of the moon landing is a knowledge base (not exactly his words) for the rover and Mars. Unless of course the whole Mars/rover news is fake too.

I thought that was a good point and thought I'd share it with you all. :D

[Evanescent]

If it is true that shows how much are government gives crap about us.

[ffx-dreamz]

Originally posted by Evanescent
I doubt there are others. It is too absurd for me. I am logical.

How is that logical?We have billions of galaxies yet you don't think one of them contains any living lifeform?That is absurd in my opinion.Don't think of it on a small scale, look at the bigger picture and then tell me that you don't agree that something else...weather intelligent or not, is out there...somewhere.

[Joseph_Stalin]

It is not logical to limit your possibilites :wink:

[Evanescent]

Do to my religous views i am being logical in my reasoning(not saying you can't believe i am just saying i don't) anything you say will not sway my decision.

[Joseph_Stalin]

No one here is trying to sway your decision. I'm just giving certain comments. If that is what you believe then that's fine; I don't have the right to, nor will I, change it.

[Evanescent]

Netiher of us are trying to sway each others opinions. Actually your ideas are more logical than mine and I am all ears.I like hearing other theories.

[spicefiend]

People have been saying 'it isn't possible' or 'it can't be done' for centuries. It was generally accepted that the Earth was flat and the Sun revolved around us.

My religion, Catholicism, never really touched base on intelligent life in the universe. Which raises another question. How will religions react if other life is found? Will these beings have a religion of their own? And if they did not have one, do they need one? What is their conclusion on how their exsistence came to be?

I am reminded of a scene from the movie Enemy Mine, where an alien and a human are stuck on a desolate planet together. Sometime during the show Drac (the alien) and Davidge learn about each other's way of life and beliefs.

Davidge (reading from the alien version of the bible/koran/ect): \"If one receives evil from another, let one not do evil in return. Rather, let him extend love to the enemy, that love might unite them.\" (he pauses and says) ..I've heard all this before... in the human Taalmaan.

Drac: Of course you have. Truth is truth.[/b]

A nice thought, yes? As a lover of both science and my religion, its easy for me to believe strongly in the 'cosmic religious feeling.'

[Alric]

Actually even way back in the medieval times people knew the earth was round and that we went around the sun. You can tell almost right away when you try and draw a map.

[Joseph_Stalin]

They viewed ships as the passed over the horizon, and thus saw the earth was round, and not flat.


Like you would see just the mast of the ship (Think that's what it is called), and then more and more of it was revealed as it came over the horizon and soon whole thing was there.

It was viewed from up to down in perspective though.


SHIP
VVVVVVVV
VVVVV
______________

^^^^^
^^^^^^^^
YOU OBSERVING

[Evanescent]

I am catholic to. I base it on god created humans. But the bible never says anything about others so it doesn't rule it out. so i would enjoy hearing your theories.

[Joseph_Stalin]

God could be a trickster then. You know, he creates tons of planets, and does similiar things on each. So we each think we're the only sentient life out there.

[spicefiend]

God could be a trickster then. You know, he creates tons of planets, and does similiar things on each. So we each think we're the only sentient life out there.[/b]

http://sinfest.net/d/20000827.html

:D

I am catholic to. I base it on god created humans. But the bible never says anything about others so it doesn't rule it out. so i would enjoy hearing your theories.[/b]

My general philosophy is that if it's possible, then it's not fiction! :)

[Howie]

That's great spicefiend. ( http://sinfest.net/d/20000827.html ) It is rather arrogent to think we are the only ones out there.

[Joseph_Stalin]

That strip was halirious! :D

[spicefiend]

In other news, the Stardust Spacecraft has succeeded in capturing some cool images of a comet!

http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/

[evangel]

To me, it's nearly a given that there are other civilizations out there, but it is even more interesting to think that there are other civilizations living right here among us... albeit existing on sperate planes and in sperate dimensions :alien:

[Evanescent]

Yea it's all a mystery.

[spicefiend]

To me, it's nearly a given that there are other civilizations out there, but it is even more interesting to think that there are other civilizations living right here among us... albeit existing on sperate planes and in sperate dimensions[/b]

I really like that idea. I haven't given it much thought until now. Do each of us exist in these parallel universes? If so, what different lives we must have. What if it all starts out the same and at some point, influenced by what seemed to be a small decision, everything changes drastically? Hypothetically in one world, what if I made the choice to take the backroad home instead the interstate? I would have avoided a collision, some time in the hospital, a wrecked body, hours of physical therapy and also hospital bills that my insurance wouldn't cover and I couldn't afford. Also, considering whatever chain of events determined my general attitude on life, it may have prevented the anguish, the dispair, and the helplessness while I lay in my bed at my run-down apartment staring at a street light through the window blinds and wallowing in self-defeatism.

What would I have become if that life-altering event did not happen? I could have enjoyed a pleasant drive through the country, made it home safely, ate a nutritious meal and ended the evening with a movie or a book. The following weekend, after a night of painting the town with my girlfriends, I meet Mr. Right at the local Denny's where my companions and I go to have our 'after 2 am coffee.' Mr. Right and I get engaged and marry later on, producing some children. I watch them grow from babies to teenagers and if they're anything like me, they're teenagers who want to be independent yet reject responsibility. God help me. I get some gray hair through these years and watch them graduate highschool or college, get married and soon have grandchildren of my own. After a successful bout in the stock market, Mr. Right and I retire on the Oregan coast where we sit on our backporch eating oysters and sipping wine.

Or not.

I'll stop rambling now. :D

[Evanescent]

So your saying that you were in a wreck and if you would have took a backroad instead you could of avoided it an many other misfortunes. See that is the same thing with every choice rather it has good or bad results it could have been cahnged by that choice.

[Haruko]

What was that quote? I'm thinking about it. I think it was from the movie Contact. It goes something like -- though I could be way off -- this:
If there was no life out there, that'd be an awful waste of space.

[Evanescent]

Maybe we are like parasites and we are on the host(earth) and the universe is like an environment. :?:

[Haruko]

I like The Matrix description of the human race: that we are a virus that spreads, a plague of the earth, ruining the environment and moving on to more habitable areas when the former becomes useless.

[evangel]

I really like that idea. I haven't given it much thought until now. Do each of us exist in these parallel universes?[/b]

I don't know that I would think of them as parallel universes in the sense that there are other parallel "selves" that exist, but rather that there are other dimensions that contain realities that we may catch glimpses of during dreaming, containing other races, species, etc. Ultimately we don't have the capacity to imagine or "realize" these realms -at least not completely or not yet. Just my own theory.

By the way, spicy, I read your poetry postings and I must say they're impressive! ...I'm also a poet (of sorts) and a musician. How old are you if you don't mind me asking?

I was thinking maybe there is someone on this forum (or just visiting) that may have some publishing strings we could pull to get an official dream views poetry book published :!:
:reading:

[spicefiend]

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?...p?id=ns99996046 (http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996046)

Whoo-hoo! They did it! Spaceship One succeeded launching into space! :yumdumdoodledum:

I like The Matrix description of the human race: that we are a virus that spreads, a plague of the earth, ruining the environment and moving on to more habitable areas when the former becomes useless[/b]
That happens to be one of my favorite speeches in the whole movie, not that I agree with it, but because I love the way Agent Smith says it in his droning, monotone way.

I have too great of faith in mankind to disregard us in that way. We're not perfect, but as we push forward into science and technology I have no doubt we will be able to repair the damage we have done. :)


By the way, spicy, I read your poetry postings and I must say they're impressive! ...I'm also a poet (of sorts) and a musician. How old are you if you don't mind me asking?[/b]


Hi Evangel! I'm glad you like my poetry and thanks for the compliment. :D I've had 3 of my poems published so far. Two were in a highschool poetry book, I'm not sure if that counts or not. Anyway, its been a while since I've wrote a poem. Those that I have posted are at least 3 years old... I've lost my muse! Do you have poetry here? I'll have to check it out.

Oh, as for my age, I turn 24 on July 1st.

[Evanescent]

Wasn't that just the test flight :?:

[spicefiend]

Wasn't that just the test flight [/b]

Yes and No. This flight does not qualify for the Xprize. They will have to take one or two more flights with a couple passengers on board to win the 10 million. What matters right now is not whether they win the purse, but the fact that this was the first private launch into space. :D

[Alric]

Well we don't move onto new areas when old ones become useless, because most places never become useless. If anything else you start building houses there. I should know, thats what they do here. Basicly a big desert so we cover the area with houses. There isn't even going to be enough water if we keep building this way, I doubt it will stop them from making houses though. Even worse since everyone needs a ton of water for their lawn since they don't want desert plants, and of course each person has to own their own pool.

[spicefiend]

If anything else you start building houses there. I should know, thats what they do here. Basicly a big desert so we cover the area with houses. There isn't even going to be enough water if we keep building this way, I doubt it will stop them from making houses though[/b]

You know what's intersting? I live in the Pacific Northwest where it RAINS so much, most northwesteners like me are afraid of the sun and freak out whenever it gets too hot. Literally. The county I live in faces a drought almost every summer and by mid-August our lawns are dryer then the Texas sand. My parents live in the desert and rely on irrigation to water their crops, lawns, ect. Of course, because its desert, they seldom see the rain. They never face a drought and their lawns are always green. Odd huh?

[incubusfunkman]

yeah its funny how it works out that way

[Howie]

Spicefiend -If you don't already you should subscibe to Scientific America. With what seems to me your interest in space. :D

Having paralell universes and other dimensions opens my perception more to the prospect of astral projection.