Do You Download Music?

[DreamCoil]

Just wondering if any of you guys use file sharing programs and what you think about them. Personaly because I listen to metal and stuff, some bands I can't find there CD's so I download the music, but mostly I only use Kazaa like a preview thing, like I download one song, see If I like it, then buy the CD.
Personaly though I would pay a small fee to download a file because really, buying an album for maybe 1 or 2 songs that you like while the rest is shit is a bit obsurd, plus I have to travel a long way in order to find CD's I want. So it's not out of disrespect for the artist really, it's out of laziness.
Thoughts?

[Serinanth]

Yeah thats the problem, alot of music is teh suck these days... and only one or two songs if any are actually worth listening to on the album *coughst.angercough*

I listen to alota techno trance stuff thats hard to find, myself. I dont trust file swapping software anymore, even when you use ip masking stuff thats available now, I have a friend that has every song known to man basically so I dont need to download anything =)

[Silver Sphere]

"I Buy CD's, And Download Files"

Until I become a millionaire I'll do both to taste everything possible. DirectConnect serves my needs right now; for music that I want to spend any amount of time listening to Kazaa just doesn't cut it for selection.

I'm listening to a burned cd right now actually: Klaus Schulze - "Irrlicht". Going on first impression, this is actually pretty worthwhile.

[A Lost Soul]

I chose 'File Whore', but I will actually get off my file-downloading ass and buy an album if I think it deserves my $30. Being that you can't return a CD you bought, you're stuck paying too much money for a product you're unsure of.

My dad and I had this conversation yesterday. He hates me downloading music because he considers it 'stealing'. But, in my defense, I do not redistribute it in any way (I'm not even sharing any files on Kazaa). The music is for my own listening pleasure and to me it's no different than recording a song off the radio, like we use to do in the 80s. If I like the music enough, and if I feel that the band deserves my money, I will go out and buy their CD. I do NOT like knowing there is a middle man between my dollars and the band, though. That bugs me to no end. They don't deserve any percentage of my money! They don't do anything. Grr. Anyway, I will admit that I have a lot of mp3s of bands whose CDs I don't own. Most of the time it's because I've downloaded the rest of the CD and it sucked.

Oh, and another thing: a lot of the music I download isn't even American, so how the heck am I supposed to buy that? I would love to buy Boa's stuff, but I haven't been able to find it in any music stores around here. Not to mention, try finding music by Kondo Koji and Uematsu Nobuo without ordering it online. O_o

[A Lost Soul]

Originally posted by Silver Sphere
\"I Buy CD's, And Download Files\"

Until I become a millionaire I'll do both to taste everything possible. DirectConnect serves my needs right now; for music that I want to spend any amount of time listening to Kazaa just doesn't cut it for selection.

I'm listening to a burned cd right now actually: Klaus Schuzle - \"Irrlicht\". Going on first impression, this is actually pretty worthwhile.

Hmmm... DirectConnect? PM me and tell me more about this DirectConnect. :D

[Seeker]

I buy them for 3 reasons.
1) I have a slow sucky dial up connection
2) I don't like to see artist starve
3) Most of what I like can be found in the discount bin

[A Lost Soul]

Originally posted by Seeker

2) I don't like to see artist starve

Just to stir up some crap here, I should bring to your attention the THIRD mansion that Lars Ulrich bought within the past year. Somehow I don't think the musicians are starving. True, everyone has to start somewhere and I respect and support that, but it's only the rich ones that are bitching about filesharing.

[nerve]

:lol: I dunno, I killed kazaa because they were like hunting people down and crap. but most of the metal I want can't be found in stores here, (damn this hic-ass state) but I now know of a nice place in Hot Springs that has a bunch of good stuff...but anyway, most metal albums I buy I like every song on them anyway so I just go ahead and buy them.

[nerve]

Originally posted by A Lost Soul+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(A Lost Soul)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Seeker

2) I don't like to see artist starve

Just to stir up some crap here, I should bring to your attention the THIRD mansion that Lars Ulrich bought within the past year. Somehow I don't think the musicians are starving. True, everyone has to start somewhere and I respect and support that, but it's only the rich ones that are bitching about filesharing.[/b]

true!

[Seeker]

Hi Lost Soul,

How's the foot?
Back to topic. It isn't the artists so much as the record companies that are yelling the loudest. They get the biggest cut and are hurt the most. They also stir up the artists as being the victim when they are the biggest victim. But nobody likes the record companies or cares if their profits are cut into.

If someone could set up a download service that would allow the artists to sell directly to the consumer, and cutting out the record company, you could download a CD for about $7 and the artist would make more money.

[nerve]

now that's a good idea...*nod*

[A Lost Soul]

Originally posted by Seeker
Hi Lost Soul,

How's the foot?
Back to topic. It isn't the artists so much as the record companies that are yelling the loudest. They get the biggest cut and are hurt the most. They also stir up the artists as being the victim when they are the biggest victim. But nobody likes the record companies or cares if their profits are cut into.

If someone could set up a download service that would allow the artists to sell directly to the consumer, and cutting out the record company, you could download a CD for about $7 and the artist would make more money.

YES! See, that's brilliant! Why hasn't anyone done it yet? I would so support something like that, especially if I knew that my hard-earned money was going to support something that I thought was worthwhile.

p.s. If you'll pardon my language for a moment: my foot FUCKING HURTS LIKE A FUCKING MOTHERFUCKER!! But thanks for asking. :P

[Seeker]

I feel your pain. How far does the cast go?
I can remember working on mine with a clothes hanger after a couple of weeks because it itched so bad!

[A Lost Soul]

Originally posted by Seeker
I feel your pain. How far does the cast go?
I can remember working on mine with a clothes hanger after a couple of weeks because it itched so bad!

It's actually not a cast. It's this weird moon-boot thing with lots of padding and velcro. I can take it off, but it's a real pain to get back on again (pun fully intended).

[nerve]

what pun is that?

[Seeker]

They will cast it when the swelling goes down, won't they?

[A Lost Soul]

Originally posted by Seeker
They will cast it when the swelling goes down, won't they?
Heh. Nope. I'm going to scan in my X-Ray and put it up in a minute. We can move the conversation there so we don't bog down the topic... which should be some of us bitching about record companies bending us over the proverbial table and some of us defending them! Blah!

[nerve]

*waving arms* eh..where is the pun...I didn't see one...eh..nevermind..


:lol:

[Seeker]

Nevermind because you don't care anymore?
Or nevermind because it hurts to put a boot on a broken foot?

[nerve]

nevermind because...wait..what was the pun I still don't get it.. :lol:

[Silver Sphere]

Originally posted by Seeker

If someone could set up a download service that would allow the artists to sell directly to the consumer, and cutting out the record company, you could download a CD for about $7 and the artist would make more money.

Ick - if I'm paying money I want a tangible object. Good music on a cd with case and booklet is worth ten or fifteen bucks to me, a bunch of 128 or 192k mp3s are worth pretty much nothing.

IMO, of course. I've never felt any guilt about downloading files. And the "support the artist" schtick pretty much goes right out the window if you're downloading out-of-print albums, demos, and Beethoven, now doesn't it? Or if you're buying used albums, for that matter, which I often do.

I still get music off of Kazaa here and there in spite of the "crackdown". Who knows, maybe by 2157 they'll get around to prosecuting me.

[nerve]

:movingmrgreen:

[Mortalis]

It is tough to get the boot on and off, it hurts to get the boot on and off, pain to get it on and off could mean either, voila pun. I do download music but I think that I have about 10 songs in my library of songs and I own the CDs for half of them..Also, I dunno why everyone uses Kazaa, I use WinMX and love it:)

[A Lost Soul]

I didn't like WinMX very much. I tried it for about a week and I found that it wasn't very user-friendly (i.e. not for dumb people like me). Then again, one week really isn't a fair amount of time. *shrug* I might try it again, being that I have all this free time on my hands suddenly. :D

[Stalker]

I have downloaded a few songs, but I get most of my music from other sources.

[Seeker]

Originally posted by Silver Sphere
Ick - if I'm paying money I want a tangible object.

Good point, but... I just finished ripping my entire CD collection to MP3. I do video work and will usually have a song I want to use for a soundtrack.

I have 20 Gig of MP3! That was a lot of CDs. Took me about a week.

It's much nicer having them on the computer where I can click, and everything is organized.

[Silver Sphere]

Originally posted by Seeker
I have 20 Gig of MP3! That was a lot of CDs. Took me about a week.


Personally... if I'm going to listen to the things I get off the internet, I burn 'em, and even then I tend to wonder about the sound quality I'm missing. I rip if there's something I want to share, and that's about it.

Maybe I just need better PC speakers.

[midnightjoker]

I read an article a while back about the BS the RIAA and the media are using to tell us that file-sharing is hurting the industry. I went back and found it. Seriously, read this and you will have a new perspective on why the music industry and record labels are using statistics that are affected by much more than Kazaa. Read on to get past the BS...

[begin article]

RIAA Watch
by Bill Glahn Saturday September 20, 2003 at 02:27 PM
billglahn@ripinternet.com

Deaf, Dumb, Blind and One Foot in the Grave: The Real Story Behind RIAA Propaganda.

A musician friend of mine who releases his albums on his own label recently asked me, "What about the little record company, like mine? If people can get all my songs for free, then who will buy the CD?"

My heart just about sank when I heard this question coming from him. I didn't expect it to come from someone who is a religious reader of this column, a personal friend, and frequent correspondent. But I wasn't surprised, considering how much the major media has regurgitated the RIAA line that P2P file-sharing is killing the music industry. If you believe the often quoted line that sales are down 31% in the last three years, a period in which Internet down-loading of songs has become a world-wide phenomenon, it's easy to make the assumption that P2P is the cause. And that the tough road which artists who are promoting and selling their own wares engage in will become even tougher. But is that a legitimate assumption? Or is that as big a leap as saying birds can't fly because pigs have a monopoly on air space? Here's a few observations from an unbiased observer.

The Single factor: A number of years back the major labels stated that singles weren't profitable and made an (un)conscious decision to kill the format. They claimed that singles lost money and were only used as a promotional tool for albums. The truth of the matter was that singles weren't as profitable, so why settle for 3 or 4 bucks when you could squeeze the public out of 17 or 18 for an album. After all, in CD format, the manufacturing costs of both were about the same. Tom Petty took his label at its word and said if singles were a promotional tool that lost money, then he would put his next one up on his web site for free. With no manufacturing costs, his label wouldn't "lose" money if he promoted his album that way. This was several years before P2P technology. The label demanded an immediate retraction of the MP3 from his site and their true goals were exposed. Any customer that wanted the one song would just have to pay $17 for it whether they liked the rest of the album or not.

The Dumb factor: So what do the majors market in an era of few singles? Acts specializing in singles. Boy bands. Pop tunes. The most frequently named artist in the RIAA subpoenas by far was Avril Lavigne. The second was Michael Jackson. Let me clue the record industry in on something here. If you weren't one of the 50 gazillion people that bought the Thriller album in the almost two decades since its release, you ain't gonna buy it in 2003 just to get "Billie Jean." Consider that Madonna, Pink, and Lil' Romeo made the list. Now consider that Jimi Hendrix and John Coltrane didn't.

The Deaf factor: Aw hell. This one doesn't need explaining.

The Blind factor: Downloads were in full swing in 2001 when industry wide sales of singles in the United States totaled a little over 2 million units. The pitiful showing was due to one thing and one thing only. The major labels weren't releasing any singles. But the industry just wouldn't budge when it came to entering the download market. A few more singles were released last year and sales doubled to over 5 million. Still no movement on the majors part other than a few over-priced and poorly configured download sites which were label affiliated and exclusive. Enter iTunes this year. In 3 months iTunes has sold over 10 million downloads at a dollar a pop. The thing to consider here is that iTunes is currently only available to MAC users, an infinitesimally small portion of the home computer market. AND iTunes isn't part of the world wide net. Their sales are limited to customers in the U.S. I think what is illustrated is that greed will blind you from reality. Toni Basil, Kajagoogoo, and Hooked On Classics all made money for the industry. They didn't do it by selling albums. People aren't going to pay album prices for one-hit wonders or career popsters.

The "lie-through-your-teeth" factor: The RIAA says sales are down 31% as if the 5 major labels were the only record labels in existence. No doubt that sales are down significantly for them. They released 25% fewer new releases during the slump. Take into account that the economy has been in the toilet for much of that time and average incomes continue to slide and the other 6% doesn't seem to be out of line for an industry that sells exclusively non-essentials. Which brings us to...

The youth factor: The first jobs to go in a sliding economy are the ones held by teens and young adults, the primary focus audience for the majors. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that "in July 2003, the labor force participation rate for young men (16-24 years of age), which has declined steadily since 1995, was at its lowest July point on record, 70.0 percent. The July 2003 participation rate for young women was 64.5 percent, the lowest it has been since 1975." So why is it that the majors, always looking at things in terms of "markets", continue to ignore the multitude of older artists with followings ranging in age from 30-90 (save a stable of proven million sellers with major label careers dating back to the Jurassic age)? For one thing older artists have been around the block and don't look at label contracts the same way a starry-eyed youth might. Either assume that those artists are too smart to be coaxed into slavery contracts or refer back to the dumb factor.

The Indie factor: About a dozen independent music stores were questioned while preparing this article. They were about evenly split on whether or not their businesses had increased or decreased over the last 3 years. But none stated anywhere close to a 31% hit. ALL stated that they had an increase in sales of independent releases during that period. Most stated that major label releases were moving in the direction of the Wooly Mammoth. The most successful operations stated community involvement, a move toward local talent and independent releases, and (get this) an increased focus on import singles not available in the U.S. as reasons for increased sales. In the most extreme example, Doyle Davis, co-owner of Grimey's Pre-Loved Music in Nashville, states a whopping 250% increase in sales over the last year. A lot of the store's success is attributed to co-owner Mike Grimes' strong ties to the local music scene (he played in the Bis-Quits and Bare Jr and owns Nashville's Slow Bar) and Davis' extensive knowledge of music (he worked for the Great Escape, the leading used CD/comics store in town for 15 years). Plus a healthy stock of indie rock, classic funk (Davis' fave) and reggae (think Lee Scratch Perry) along with local artists. With major label execs making tens of millions of dollars a year to steer their corporations into the dumpster, I wonder what a pair like Davis and Grimes would be worth to deliver just one year like that.

The price factor: You can buy a DVD of an old movie at Walmart for $6.88. A re-issued catalog CD costs twice that. If it has been re-mixed and re-mastered and some fluff thrown into the packaging it can cost three times as much. Tough choice when the consumer is contemplating where to spend their entertainment dollar? Think not.

All of this brings us back to my good friend's concerns. He was on a major label at one time. He never made a dime off the deal. If he makes a dime on his own, he's 10 cents ahead. He makes great records. He'll never sell 500,000 copies of one though. There is a multitude of reasons for that and none of them have to do with P2P downloads. As Janis Ian has pointed out, there's plenty of free water available but bottled water is still a huge industry.

That 12-year-old girl in New York that the RIAA sued last week lived in low-income public housing. How many 18-dollar CDs does the RIAA think she's going to buy? Lost income? I don't think so. Lost opportunity? You bet.

(Rev. Keith A. Gordon contributed to this article.)

Bill Glahn writes the RIAA Watch column for CounterPunch. His Husgow Record Guide appears at http://www.mondogordo.com Feature articles appear in BigO magazine.

[end article]

[A Lost Soul]

Wow! Thank you for sharing that article with us.

[midnightjoker]

Sure thing.

So as you guys (and girls) can see, P2P sharing is not the only thing (if it even is any part of it) causing the demise of the music industry. The crap they're putting out is overpriced and a non-necessity. And it's boy bands and $hit like that.

A must-read for everyone.

[MotDH]

Everyone should just download soulseek. If you can't find something with that, then you're probably doing something wrong.

And it's user friendly...

[Vira]

-clears throat- Whatever gave you that idea,? -messes with her collar.- Is it hot in here? ...ahem... :P :) ;)

[khh]

You're ressing old threads again. I think she's probably have the wrong settings, so new threads doesn't show at top. Someone should PM her.

[Mario92]

I think she's doing it on purpose, mate...in before the lock

Personally, I'd rather put up with slightly suckish quality and go through youtube, rather than risk limewire viruses and other unpleasantness. Also less risk of getting busted, which is nice. :)