Election Time! Who Would You Vote For?

[bradybaker]

Hello all, I just thought it would be interesting to see how the fall election is shaping up.

[wasup]

if you put underage it would of made the youngins feel better :cry:

[bradybaker]

Everyone is welcome to take part in the poll.

[nightowl]

I would vote, but im underaged. But I would've voted for Kerry.

I choose him because IMO Kerry is the lesser of the two evils. I dont know why, but I just hate bush so much. hated him ever since he came into office. I dont have a real reason. It's just the vibe I get off from him, and i dont like it

[wasup]

Originally posted by nightowl
It's just the vibe I get off from him, and i dont like it

It's called stupid.

[jacobo]

yeah bush isn't fit for office. and a vote for nader is essentially a vote for bush... therefore by the process of elimination i'm voting for al pacino.

[nightowl]

therefore by the process of elimination i'm voting for al pacino.[/b]

:lol: your one funny character adidas. Btw, your new avatar rocks :goodjob2:

wasup-you may be right...

[dougdrums]

Wayne Coyne would probably be my second choice.

[Lowercase Society]

go BOB DOLE!


erm....oh yeah, that was a few years ago...he still has my vote though.

[CT]

i'm not american so I dont really know what the fuck is going on, all I know is 99% of the rest of the world would like to see bush get speared by an angry mob of osama-bin laden fans. And then they would rape his speared ass, because all them osamas secretly like assholes.

[Joseph_Stalin]

So... what I gathered from this is:

If I vote for Bush, then that's bad.
If I vote for Kerry, that's still bad.
If I vote for Nader, that's essentially voting for bush, so that's bad too.


Tsk, tsk, tsk...this is why communism worked out SOOO much better. :movingmrgreen:

[CT]

they should all just nuke the fuckign moon. The moon is the problem of everything. Tidal waves, pigeons and people who think that the colour olive is a nice colour

they should all be slain. WIth rusty spoons.

[loose id]

http://www2.uta.edu/hunt/charts/jstallone.jpg

i'm voting for frank stallone.[/img]

[jacobo]

Originally posted by Joseph_Stalin
Tsk, tsk, tsk...this is why communism worked out SOOO much better. :movingmrgreen:

right... :roll:

[Alric]

Isn't that nice? None beats them all put togather. That is saying something.

[gameover]

Voting is just giving in to thier way of life. So I dare eveyone to stay home this election season and show these politicians that you're not playing thier games. Puppet A or puppet B? Kerry and Bush are good buddy's(Skull and Bones. woo woo!) Who gives a shit, I'm going to sleep.

[jacobo]

uhhh then you have no right to bitch about which puppet gets elected. *gets on soap box* no one listen to this man. you're not "giving into their way of life" by going to the polls... you're doing what you can to influence the politics that run your life... if you don't like the idea of politicians running your life... telling you how much you're going to be taxed and telling you where your tax dollars are going i suggest you move because that's how it works here. :| i'm fucking sick of political apathy... i did a 30 page report on political apathy in teens and i have to say... after all my surveying... after all my researching i'm thoroughly disgusted by america’s youth... you're a bunch of whining bitches who get pissed when bush is elected but you're too fucking lazy to do something about it. get off your ass and get involved... if you don't make the small gesture of going to the polls i don't want to hear you bitching about the people in office... i'd rather have a liar than someone who doesn't give a shit. you damn quitters.

:pissed: :shakehead2: :listenup: :madtongue:

fkjgdhkhgasFSAS!!! fuck.

[Joseph_Stalin]

In Soviet Russia, president choose people! :D


See, all is much simpler, yes? Mother Russia is very cold, but very simple, no?

[gameover]

See you've obviosuly missed my point. I'm not wasting my time whining about it. I AM doing something about. I'm living my life the way I see fit. I'm not voting because I don't believe that our votes have anything to do with the outcome. You'll never see me complaining about my life because these politicians like to play messed up power games.

uhhh then you have no right to bitch about which puppet gets elected[/b]
everyone has the right to bitch. And anyways who's btching? I choose to ignore them. Big difference.

if you don't like the idea of politicians running your life... telling you how much you're going to be taxed and telling you where your tax dollars are going i suggest you move because that's how it works here[/b]
The whole money system is thiers, not mine, so I can live my life without worrying about it. Just because they tell me that this is how it is, doesn't mean it's how it is in my life. Why should I move? Because I don't want to live the way some rich old white guys live, across the country, that have nothing to do with my life? No thanks I'll stay(until I can get to Brazil that is)

i'm fucking sick of political apathy... i did a 30 page report on political apathy in teens and i have to say... after all my surveying... after all my researching i'm thoroughly disgusted by america’s youth... you're a bunch of whining bitches who get pissed when bush is elected but you're too fucking lazy to do something about it.[/b]
Who's whining now?
And like I said, I am doing something about it. I'm ignoring it. VOting would be like telling them that I agree with thier system.

get off your ass and get involved... if you don't make the small gesture of going to the polls i don't want to hear you bitching about the people in office... i'd rather have a liar than someone who doesn't give a shit.[/b]
YOu'd rather have a liar? I'd rather have neither. And again, I didn't bitch about anything. The only bitching seems to be coming from your direction. And as for the polls, and voting. It's like telling an athiest "If you don't like the way it is, you should be praying!" Well, I don't live that way, thanks.

[Alric]

You can ignore them but if you basicly sit around doing nothing you really can't complain. Yea you can complain but people are going to ignore you right back so theres no real point in it. Voting isn't agreeing with them. You could always vote for a third party, might not win, might not stand a chance, but atleast your voting.

[Taosaur]

I'm not sure whether I'll vote for Nader or Kerry. Every position I've heard Kerry state has been "I'm just like Bush, but less so." It seems pointless to swap one plutocrat for another.

At the same time, Bush poses an unprecedented threat to our Constitutional checks and balances, our environment, our reputation and place in the world economy, and generally the quality of life of every human being on earth who isn't chasing dollar signs. Kerry would do little to improve the situation, but he would do less to make it worse.

Voting for Nader would not effect the outcome of this election, I know. It would, however, continue building a party with values that bear some resemblance to my own, a party which has more people in office every year and has some interest in deposing our corporate overseers rather than appeasing them.

This whole conservative/liberal dichotomy is a smoke screen. The Democrats are now the conservative party: they want to maintain the status quo of the last fifty years, giving handouts to the underpriveleged to keep them quiet while getting fat off the system themselves. Republicans, on the other hand, are attempting some plutocratic revolution with a religious facade, where might (measured in dollars) makes right and outgroups are openly persecuted. These are both lousy choices.

So the question for November: is it more important to stop Bush, or to start building something better? I don't know yet.

[gameover]

You can ignore them but if you basicly sit around doing nothing you really can't complain. Yea you can complain but people are going to ignore you right back so theres no real point in it. Voting isn't agreeing with them. You could always vote for a third party, might not win, might not stand a chance, but atleast your voting.[/b]
Voting is agreeing with the system we have. Voting is telling them that I agree with the system ,of voting in poloticians in, to run things for us. Voting far Nader is still agreeing with the system we have in place. Voting for Harry Brown is still giving in. Like saying "I don't like your game, but I'll play it anyways in an attempt to destroy it!" . I don't agree with mob rule so I'm not gonna vote. And like I said before, I'm not complaining. The world is the way it is, and I'm not wasting my time complaining. I just choose to ignore it because it has nothing to do with my daily life. "Polotics is for people who don't believe in the inevitability of change" People have globablly been doing the same stupid shit for thousands of years. It's an endless cycle or ridiculosuness. So why get upset, and get involved in these sick polotics? A waste of my time.

[jacobo]

Originally posted by gameover+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gameover)</div>The whole money system is thiers, not mine, so I can live my life without worrying about it. Just because they tell me that this is how it is, doesn't mean it's how it is in my life. Why should I move? Because I don't want to live the way some rich old white guys live, across the country, that have nothing to do with my life? No thanks I'll stay(until I can get to Brazil that is)[/b]

uhhh and how will you do this? did you steel the computer that you're using right now? are you pirating the internet connection? because if you're not i fail to see any force behind your words.

Originally posted by gameover@
Who's whining now?
And like I said, I am doing something about it. I'm ignoring it. VOting would be like telling them that I agree with thier system.


you obviously don't get the measure in which i used the word whining. it's ok to complain... that's how things get fixed... but when you complain about something that you're indifferent to people tend to call you a dumbass. you don't agree with the system? i'll say it again, leave... because that's the system... that's how it works... whether you're a cynic or not. you can claim that your vote has no merit... that it's a waste of time... but that doesn't make it true. if you knew anything about democracy you'd know that your vote counts on so many levels. local, state, national.

<!--QuoteBegin-gameover
YOu'd rather have a liar? I'd rather have neither. And again, I didn't bitch about anything. The only bitching seems to be coming from your direction. And as for the polls, and voting. It's like telling an athiest \"If you don't like the way it is, you should be praying!\" Well, I don't live that way, thanks.

your rational is mind numbing. here's a better situation.... one that better depicts what’s going on... say that we know beyond any doubt that there is a god (democratic government)... the religious man prays (voter)... the atheist who's so convinced that there is no god chooses not to pray... then complains about the rules set forth by that god. my point is... just because you think voting counts for nothing doesn’t make it true. this nation was formed around voting and it has been a cornerstone of american life since the beginning... and to think that it's worthless is so incredibly short sighted and irresponsible... it's sickening.

p.s. brazil sucks! go argentina! :P

[gameover]

uhhh and how will you do this? did you steel the computer that you're using right now? are you pirating the internet connection? because if you're not i fail to see any force behind your words. [/b]
because I use money doesn't mean it's what I live by. If you go to Maui you'll see a whole culture of people that live thier own way and don't live by the dollar, even though of course they use it to get food and things. I live in the world that is immediately around me, and money is. But this doesn't make it a value of mine, or something I'm going to vote about. I'm jsut gonna do what I have to do to get food in my mouth and a roof over my head, regardless of what random system happens to be forced upon us at the time.

you obviously don't get the measure in which i used the word whining. it's ok to complain... that's how things get fixed...[/b]
So when you think I'm complaining it's stupid, but when you do it, you're changing the world for the better? And anyways I tried that before, and no, it doesn't fix anything. People have been complaining about things for thousands of years and nothing changes. The same cycle of things. Over and over and over.

but when you complain about something that you're indifferent to people tend to call you a dumbass.[/b]
I can't even understand where this sentence came from but I thought it'd be funny to quote anyways. Who's complaining about something they're indifferent to? And is this true? People tend to call them dumbass? I bet they're really upset about that.

you don't agree with the system? i'll say it again, leave... because that's the system... that's how it works... whether you're a cynic or not. [/b]

So if I don't agree with the people with the guns and power, I should leave? EVerywhere I go inthe world I'm gonna find the same BS. What am I running from? Nothing. I have no complaints about the world. The world is the way it is, so I'll live my life the way I see fit, wherever I am.


if you knew anything about democracy you'd know that your vote counts on so many levels. local, state, national. [/b]
Look no further than the last presidential election to see how you're wrong. And lets pretend the elections are all fair. Still the only option is vote for the people who will rule. If someone tells me \"Ok slave, it's time to vote for your master\" I'll say \"Fuck you\" and walk away. You're blind if you can't see that everywhere politics is a big, sick web of corruption. Democracy's a joke.

your rational is mind numbing. [/b]
I apologize for all numbing caused by my rationale

just because you think voting counts for nothing doesn’t make it true[/b]
I'm saying it has no place in my values. You can vote all you want if it makes you happy. I don't really care. But I see it as a contradiction of my way of life, so I choose not to. Is that ok with you or do I have to leave?
you don't agree with the system? i'll say it again, leave...[/b]
After all thats the way of America right! Agree or get the hell out!

p.s. brazil sucks! go argentina! [/b]
ummmm...yeah. Now we're getting somewhere...

[imported_Berserk_Exodus]

Your presidential vote counts for nothing.

It's the electoral college that matters. Put more into voting for your governors and senators than in your presidents. That's how the system works, this isn't a direct democracy, idiots. That's what everyone assumes.

Anyways, if we even DID have power, I would go with Bush, the lesser of two Evils politically and more beneficial for the welfare of our country. I'm a nuke the middle east type.

Kerry is a rich hypocritical bastard that never had a job in his life. He just sucked the milk out of his multiple wives. He's the most liberal commie candidate ever on the democratic ticket.

(Communism-Socialism doesn't work BTW. A perfect system must take human err into account.)

Agree or get the hell out? ...Must I remind you of why we're a nation in the first place? Viva la revolution!

[Alric]

Thats fine, a lot of people think like you. You don't care what happens. You go about your life and hope for the best, if it works out it works out. After all ignorance is bliss, and what you don't know cant hurt you. For all you care half the US could be wiped out be a nuclear bomb as long as it doesn't effect your state, why does it matter?

[gameover]

Anyways, if we even DID have power, I would go with Bush, the lesser of two Evils politically and more beneficial for the welfare of our country[/b]
He's....*gasp*......helped the country?What??? Are you crazy?

I'm a nuke the middle east type[/b]
Oh...that says it all right there. YOu are cazy. Lets bomb the middle east because they....give us funny looks? You're talking about a large percentage of humans on this planet. Should we just bomb them for some bullshit political adgenda? Oh wait....are you actually scared of them? I think you've watched one to many action movies with mid-eastern terrorist(notice the evil villain in every american movie has an accent)

Kerry is a rich hypocritical bastard that never had a job in his life[/b]
Sounds a lot like Bush, and every other waste of my time polotician. Bush knows people....Kerry knows people. They're both power hungry politicians.

You get a guy who dares to say shit he thinks like Howard Dean, he sweeps the independant polls and *gasp* he loses everywhere! Still believe the elections are fair? Cant wait til they get the elctronic voting. No paper trails.....

Agree or get the hell out? ...Must I remind you of why we're a nation in the first place? Viva la revolution![/b]
I hope you know I was being sarcastic...

[Neil]

When I make my decision as to who to vote for I keep in mind some important facts:

1. We are never going to understand or know what is going to happen exactly
2. We can make an informed guess. The more informed we are, the better our gues will be.
3. NO SYSTEM IS PERFECT. (in other words anarchy doesn't work, which explains why near-Democracies are predominant)

Since no choice you make will result in a good conclusion, the best you can hope for is to elect the lesser of two evils.

A very extreme, silly example: Kerry's administration might not be perfect, and may only be responsible for 500 American deaths. But if Bush administration was responsible for 2000 American deaths and 50,000 foreign deaths, I think we would agree that it is best to vote Kerry.

Finally as a liberal-left Scotsman, I say "Get Bush out of office please."

[Howie]

Originally posted by gameover
Voting is just giving in to thier way of life. So I dare eveyone to stay home this election season and show these politicians that you're not playing thier games. Puppet A or puppet B? Kerry and Bush are good buddy's(Skull and Bones. woo woo!) *Who gives a shit, I'm going to sleep.

So you promote unrock the vote. :thumbdown:
I hope you do not take that same approach in your local elections

I give a shit. I live here and I should.

[gameover]

So you promote unrock the vote. *
I hope you do not take that same approach in your local elections [/b]

I take that approach to all elections. I just let everyone else vote and continue doing what seems important to me. And anyways I can't seem to be in one place for more than a few months anyways.(cali, chicago,san diego, maui, florida...)

[Howie]

Originally posted by gameover
So you promote unrock the vote. *
I hope you do not take that same approach in your local elections

I take that approach to all elections. I just let everyone else vote and continue doing what seems important to me. And anyways I can't seem to be in one place for more than a few months anyways.(cali, chicago,san diego, maui, florida...)[/b]

I could only be so lucky. Instead I am stuck in Ohio in the rain. Now that is whining. :wink:

I think our sytem needs to find a way to sponser a third party canidate. An indepndant. We have a choice, but ya, wow, Betwen two people. It is impossible four an independant to run & win the way our system is structured now.

[gameover]

Yeah, which is why Im thinking if enough people egnored the system it would be powerless. It's strength comes from everyone recognizing its authority. Maybe Nader needs assemble some people who just start living the way they want to. Dont even bother with the impossible to win election. Just start living the way you want, and if enough people feel the same way, change is inevitable. Thats what I do every day on a small scale. Just live my life, regardless of what politicians say.

And I don't knwo about the rest of Ohio, but Drew Carey says Clevland rocks! Or the song says Clevland rocks. Drew Carey just says "Ohio!"

[kittie11]

I would vote for bush.

[gameover]

I would vote for bush. [/b]

luckily Bush fans dont need to vote. He somehow manages to win anyways ;)

[Taosaur]

I was in Ohio for the last election, but couldn't envision myself as a "resident of Ohio." Now I have more or less accepted this fate, for the time being, and will do what I can where I am. It's weird, I live in the capital city, which is fairly liberal and diverse, and it's easy to forget that the GOP owns state gov't. The only pro-Bush propaganda I've seen was on gigunda SUVs taking freeway exits for the wealthier suburbs. Seriously, I've seen three of 'em.

[gameover]

THere's lots of Hummers in Orange County,CA, but amazingly most of em hate Bush. But i think that's a west coast trend, that even gets to the wealthy.

[Alric]

If everyone stops voting it just gives more power to the ones who do vote. Doesn't change anything else except when you ask someone to do something for you, they will ignore you since you don't vote.

[gameover]

It doesnt give them any power. Like Ive siad, I no longer care about poitics because they have nothing to do with the important things in my life. People can vote or not vote, it doesnt matter to me. I'm gonna live my life in my surroundings without worrying about who's getting more power or what. That's a power I no longer worry about. So I'm not gonna vote so other people have less power, because I don't care about these ridiculous power games. Power this, money that....I'm happy keeping those issues as far away form me as possible.

[Alric]

Everything comes back to people voting. Anything any politician ever does, almost always comes back to what people wanted him to do. If you don't do anything then you have 0 say in what they do. If they outlaw something you do its your own fault. If you ever thought "oh there should be a new law to stop that" and it never happens, thats your fault too.

A lot of people hate the politicians and stuff but there really just people like you or me, who cared enough about what they believed in to take it a step farther.

[kittie11]

Originally posted by gameover
I would vote for bush.

luckily Bush fans dont need to vote. He somehow manages to win anyways ;)[/b]

lol

[gameover]

A lot of people hate the politicians and stuff but there really just people like you or me[/b]
I dont hate anyone. I just dont like politics. And again, I hope I dont have to repeat this, I have no complaints. None. I don't bitch about the shape of the world. I just live my life the way I see fit. There has been plenty of Laws that dont allow us to make personal choices for ourselves, and I just ignore them like I ignore the politicians. Ive smoked pot, I've drank alcohol(Im 19), I've eaten mushrooms, Ive jaywalked, Ive used aresol cans in the way not directed on the can. I've since quit taking illegal drugs but again, that was a personal choice that had nothing to do with politics. And anyways, you can vote for a politician based on what he says, but they'l go and do something else anyways, and its not against the law. They can talk out of thier asses all the want. Ill bring up a famous quote..."No more new taxes". And anyways they lie and lie and lie so much, I'm not wating my time digging through it to find out whats right and not. The honest politicians dont get elected. Because they don't get involved in the web of corruption. If you dont know someone, you dont win. You gotta be a bastard like Bush and Kerry, and CLinton and, pretty much every single president.

[Alric]

If you lie to often and people find out they wont vote for you again.

[gameover]

But by then its too late. So then they vote for some other politician who does the same thing. And then they use thier power to get re-elected, and cover up the crimes theyve comitted against you. Big web of corruption=dishonest politicains in office. The honest ones cant even get elected. And anyways, Ill leave the voting up to you. VOte for your town mayor, your senators, your governors, your president. See where it gets you. Its been fucking peoplepver for thousands of years, I welcome you to change it if you feel like taking on that task. But me, lifes to short to worry about making big changes. Id rather appreciate the good things in life. The people I care about, dreams, having pointless discussions about the usefullness of politics....ah yes. Life is good.

[Howie]

To some degree I do understand where you are coming from gameover. Most likley out of frustration. But do you not agree that the whole institution of our voting is what makes our country unique. To me it sounds like you are giving up. NO. More like copy out. The less civilians do the more power the government will have and the more reasons you will have to be pissed of at our government.

[gameover]

But do you not agree that the whole institution of our voting is what makes our country unique.[/b]

No I don't agree. You think America's the only country that votes? Sadaam was even \"voted in\" like bush was \"voted in\". Also check out the rest of europe, brazil, probably most of south america, canada, mexico....should I continue? ANd anyways, the same bullshit has been in every nation for the past thousans of years. Im not giving in or coping out. Im living my life! Im celelbrating life! What's worng with that?

The less civilians do the more power the government will have and the more reasons you will have to be pissed of at our government.[/b]

The government would be completely powerless if the people ignored it. It's our constant attention and our global recognition of these powers that keeps them there. The people constantly feed the governments ego by voting and debating laws and power and money and other bulllshit.

To some degree I do understand where you are coming from gameover. Most likley out of frustration[/b]

I was frustrated when I worried about politics. Now theres no frustration because it has nothing to do with my life. Im happy. I love life. I don't worry about who's putting what money where. I have friends, family, music, and dreaming to put my energy into. THe things that really matter. THats where change starts. RIght here! I dont need to look at politics for change. Try showing your love to those who need it most. Try beeing excellent to others! THe only change I worry about is my little corner of the universe. If everyone did that, the world would be settled.

[Alric]

First off comparing Bush to being voted in to be like saddam just shows you know nothing about it, and makes you look like a jerk.

Secondly the more you ignore goverment the stronger it becomes not weaker. How can you say it gets weaker? You don't watch what they do and keep and eye on them they will do all kinds of stupid things to make themself have more control. You can't just go around and act like they are not there. What are you going to do, stop paying taxes and drive around without a license? Then when they come and throw you in jail you can cover your eyes and go "lalala I am not really in jail".

[Shadows]

im sorry but my feelings for the government. is that i dislike it. sorry if anyone works for the government. but i dislike them

[Joseph_Stalin]

Originally posted by Berserk_Exodus
Your presidential vote counts for nothing.

It's the electoral college that matters. *Put more into voting for your governors and senators than in your presidents. *That's how the system works, this isn't a direct democracy, idiots. *That's what everyone assumes.


Yes, people do not, do not fucking understand this. They are so worried about what dick is going to become president that they forget who actually votes for the president.

Also, they hardly vote for their state congressman (usually they'll only go for two spheres of protection: local, or the mayor, and national, or the president. trust me, I've talked to enough people.), and then complain about problems with their president. The legislative branch, mind you, is pretty much the most powerful one, and let we have the lowest degenerates as congressmen. People complain "look what the president has done to our economy!" but they don't see the core of the problems. Who voted to go to war? Who voted for all these "patriot acts" and such? Yep. Open your eyes.

If people voted for honest candidates (yeah, I know it's hard, but you have to look deeper than speeches and slogans), we wouldn't have this much corruption in the government. Then there's that bullshit Hollywood Congressman, who tells the "New Guy" that just started his first term that, "It's a dog-eat-dog world out there." or "Nice guys finish last." Why doesn't he just say "I just finished my ride with the Statue of Liberty. We tossed that bitch 'round good!" Exactly what these people are doing. Raping us from within. The good congressmen (all seven) are probably really angry too, because of everything that is gotten away with. I would feel cheated, but I would also pass up a good million dollar paycheck so someone could get a forest paved. Or would I? The majority of congress is getting paid off, and there's no way I could help win the vote, so what the hell? That is probably the logic they use, and...well, it works.

[Death-Wuad]

The only way to keep the government in line is to not resort yourself to blind patriotism. Question the government, critisize them, whatever it takes. Just let them know you have your eye on them. That is a real patriot.

[nightowl]

joseph, you make a good point....

[Alric]

I wonder how many people have ever writen a letter or called their congressmen. Same goes for governor or senator.

[gameover]

First off comparing Bush to being voted in to be like saddam just shows you know nothing about it, and makes you look like a jerk. [/b]

Well they both abused thier power to win thier elections. All I'm doing is giving my perspective and now I'm a jerk? Why do you feel you have to make this get personal? I don't see the world the way you do. You don't see it the way I do. So what? That says nothing of our character.

Secondly the more you ignore goverment the stronger it becomes not weaker. How can you say it gets weaker?[/b]

If everyone in America had decided to ignore the police one day, then they would be almost powerless. Thier power would be reduced to thier physical force. There's more of us than thier are f them. And what is the government made of? People. Have you ever seen \"a Bugs Life?\" THe ants were ruled by the grasshoppers only because they recognized the grasshoppers authority. WHen they all stopped recognizing thier power, the grasshoppers had none, and were run out.

What are you going to do, stop paying taxes and drive around without a license? Then when they come and throw you in jail you can cover your eyes and go \"lalala I am not really in jail\".[/b]

Like I've said, I'll live in the world that is around me. Being cautious of police is the same as being cautious in a dangerous part of town. I realize the dangers and naturally avoid them. But that doesn't mean I recognize any gangs authority over me. And taxes is just more of the political game I could care less about. I accept the fact that a certain percent of money goes to the government, so they can continue thier power trip, but I really don't care. It doesn't stop me from getting what I need. I have no reason to stress. This money/power system is thiers and this is how they like to exert power. But all they're controlling is the dollar, not me. I don't care I have other things to worry about. Ill start to worry the day I can't get my basic needs. And when that day comes I wont try and vote to make things better. I'll get off my ass and do what I need to do to get food and shelter for my family. I wont vote and pray that everything may change.

[Alric]

Bush didn't abuse any power to win, and saddam killed everyone who disagreed with him. You can't compare the two in anyway.

You made the point right there. The government is just people, its not us against them, its all of us. So theres no way you could ever just ignore it. Even if you think you can ignore it you can't get everyone to ignore it, and who would want to? Thats basicly saying let murders and thieves run around stealing and killing people, no one wants that. They don't ignore the police because they want to be safe.

If you got stolen from you would just ignore it and not call the police? What if someone got killed in your family? What if you kid went to school and they had no books, or would you not even send you kid to school? What if taxes where 80% of what you earned you going to shrug and just go on.

[Joseph_Stalin]

Originally posted by nightowl
joseph, you make a good point....


Thanks :D You see, commies are good for something!

[Taosaur]

Originally posted by Alric
Bush didn't abuse any power to win, and saddam killed everyone who disagreed with him. You can't compare the two in anyway.

Oh, I don't know. Having your kid brother appoint the head of your campaign as Commisioner of Elections in his state (in fact creating the post for her) and compiling a deeply flawed "felons list" that kept over 3000 blacks from the polls in a state where more than 90% of blacks vote Democratic (a state W. carried by just over 500 votes)...I can see how you'd call that abuse of influence, at least.

Comparisons to Saddam? They're both the most right-wing leaders their nations have ever seen. Granted, the USA is not Iraq and you can't knock down the Constitution and 200 yrs of expanding civil liberties in a day, but he's done plenty in four years. Also, both W. and Saddam were brought to power and have been supported there by the American intelligence community and energy interests. They've both waged unprovoked war against the world's wishes in pursuit of oil.

So I guess you can compare them in some ways...one way they're really different, of course, is that Saddam ran a secular government.

[Alric]

It wasn't an unprovoked war and it wasn't for oil.

[Death-Wuad]

It was falsey provoked then, depending on whether or not they actually knew that their intelligence was false. Bush is an oil nut, and a lot of people in washington would get enormous benefits from oil. www.theboywhocriediraq.com explains it perfectly.

[gameover]

Oh, I don't know. Having your kid brother appoint the head of your campaign as Commisioner of Elections in his state (in fact creating the post for her) and compiling a deeply flawed \"felons list\" that kept over 3000 blacks from the polls in a state where more than 90% of blacks vote Democratic (a state W. carried by just over 500 votes)...I can see how you'd call that abuse of influence, at least. *

Comparisons to Saddam? They're both the most right-wing leaders their nations have ever seen. Granted, the USA is not Iraq and you can't knock down the Constitution and 200 yrs of expanding civil liberties in a day, but he's done plenty in four years. Also, both W. and Saddam were brought to power and have been supported there by the American intelligence community and energy interests. They've both waged unprovoked war against the world's wishes in pursuit of oil. *
[/b]

Sums it up nicely...

one way they're really different, of course, is that Saddam ran a secular government.[/b]

Well of course they're not exactly the same. But you covered the comparison I was making.

and saddam killed everyone who disagreed with him[/b]

Reminds me of out last president...and Abraham Lincoln. Good 'ol Abe locked up everyone that got in his way. Arresting people and not giving him a reason. He paved the pay for the total disregard of the constitution we see today.

The government is just people, its not us against them, its all of us. [/b]

I said its made of people. I didnt say it's all people.

So theres no way you could ever just ignore it. Even if you think you can ignore it you can't get everyone to ignore it, and who would want to? Thats basicly saying let murders and thieves run around stealing and killing people, no one wants that. They don't ignore the police because they want to be safe. [/b]

I do ignore it. Every day of my life, they don't mean shit to me and have nothing to do with my daily life. And how is that saying let's let murderers run around? Arresting murderes is attacking the symptoms, not the problems. Do you ever wonder why we have so much violnce in this country int he first place? THe government loves to make us think we're all helpless without it. So they keep the battle raging. Police cant live without criminals so they're always provoking and finding new reasons to arrest people. Our prisons are being filled every day with non-violent drug offenders. aka people who made a personal choice about what they put in thier body. Do they really know what's best for us? No. They lie to the masses and convince them that controlled substances are the worst, yet they make the worst and most problem causing drugs out there. Sugar, caffine, tobbaco, alcohol. Oh please save us from ourselves! As if people haven't lived in the past without so much government interferance. There was a time, believe it or not, where the governments of the world we'rent patrolling every corner , and did people freak out begging for a government to come save them from the anarchy? Oh, an I don't need everyone to ingore it. Im just doing what I can in my little corner of the universe. WHat you guys di with yours is up to you.

If you got stolen from you would just ignore it and not call the police? What if someone got killed in your family? What if you kid went to school and they had no books, or would you not even send you kid to school? [/b]

If that were the case, I'd say Im living in a very ill society, and police couldnt solve problems these great. How come so many people who live away from mass-culture live with no government, and can be so peacefull? Tribes in the amazon, and fiji. For thousands of years people have shown time and time again that they can live peacefully and work out thier problems without a monstrous, nosey government always getting in the way.

What if taxes where 80% of what you earned you going to shrug and just go on.[/b]

THe the world would be very different then it is now. All that I'm concerned wih is getting my basic needs. And you're giving half the picture with this scenario, but I dont even know whats happening with the taxes. All Im concerned with is having my basic needs, and being around those I love.

[Alric]

The police don't make up new laws just to arrest more people. That is just stupid. If you don't agree with the drug laws you could vote against them, but then it seems you don't care if they are against the law or not, though you sure bash them for inforcing it when the people tell them too.

When your living in a town with a million people you can't expect them all to get along, that is just insane. There has to be some kind of rules, and if people break them you can't just ignore it and hope it goes away, because it wont.

If everyone ignored all government taxes would be up to 80%. I have no doubt in that. The reason its not is because people say they will not pay that much and so its lower. If you work hard you should be able to live a decent life, not stuck living with their "basic needs".

[gameover]

The police don't make up new laws just to arrest more people.[/b]

You're right. The lawmakers do.

That is just stupid. If you don't agree with the drug laws you could vote against them,[/b]

Or I can just ignore them. Seems to work better for me. I won't give these laws the respect of a protest. That would send the message that I actually give a shit what they tell me I can and can't do.

but then it seems you don't care if they are against the law or not, though you sure bash them for inforcing it when the people tell them too.[/b]

You're right, I dont care if they are against the law or not. I don't live by thier laws. And who's telling them to enforce the laws? Who's \"the people\" anyways? Because theres certainly a huge number of people who don'tt agree with these laws. Some rich old white guys are telling them to raid poor areas for drugs. The prison system is one of the fastest growing industries int the world. Geting filled with countless non-violent drug offenders. If people don't like being around people who choose to use these drugs they should gather in communities that share thier cultural values. Why tell everyone else how to live. If someone lights up a joint down the block in thier home, who's buisiness is it but thiers? I don't care if 90% of the world votes to make it illegal for everyone to smoke pot, it's still not thier buisiness. They're just making it thier buisiness and imposing themselves ontoothers. Mob rule is not my cup of tea.

When your living in a town with a million people you can't expect them all to get along, that is just insane. There has to be some kind of rules, and if people break them you can't just ignore it and hope it goes away, because it wont. [/b]

You can't expect them to be able to work out thier differences in this society. Of course not. Nto by a longshot. Like I said before the problem goes way deeper. It's this government plagued world that hold us back from seeing our true potential. People are used to living in a such a dog-eat-dog fasion that they don't know how to step outside themselves and live selfless lives, that keeps everyone happier and more peacefull. The problem is you're just picturing the world as it is right now, deeply rooted in government, and then the government just suddenly going away. The results would be insane. Riots maybe. Chaos. But thats imagining an impossible scenario. The government instantly disinegrating. If the change comes from wtihin, and people start living thier lives independantly, then the transition would be smoother and the problems we have in this soceity wouldnt be there. THe government creates a world with a lot of messed up problems, and then offers a solution to sort of keep it line enough to be able to bear it. It doesnt get rid of crime, it just keeps it in check. So people naturally feel helpess and feel that they need the government or al of this evil would be unleahsed on the world.

If everyone ignored all government taxes would be up to 80%. I have no doubt in that. The reason its not is because people say they will not pay that much and so its lower.[/b]

Oh no! The worst of my fears.... High taxes! Seriosuly, you seem to value money like its the life force. Why do you get money in the first place? Isnt it about taking care your physical needs? High taxes doesnt mean recources will dissapear. It just measn the process for getting them will be different.

If you work hard you should be able to live a decent life, not stuck living with their \"basic needs\"[/b]

Oh I'd hate to be "stuck" living with basic needs. Millions are starving to death in the world while americans are eating themselves to death. Thats messed up. If I have my basic needs I can count my lucky stars that I should be so lucky. Physical needs are small. SHelter, food, water, clothing. THe things in life that really matter, money cant buy. Friends, families, lovers, children. THe world has everything to take care of my needs, so there's no reason be greedy. I dont need to work my ass of to buy a bunch of things I dont need.

[Alric]

You need money to pay for that stuff though. I am not going to tell anyone how much money they should try and make, what I am saying is if you work for it, you should get it. Its only fair if you do the work you get paided for it, I don't know how anyone can argue with that. What you do with the money is up to you, but its still YOUR money.

If someone wants to live in a box and eat week old bread everyday of their life thats up to them. I am not going to call them greedy if they want more though.

[bradybaker]

gameover said:
All that I'm concerned wih is getting my basic needs. And you're giving half the picture with this scenario, but I dont even know whats happening with the taxes. All Im concerned with is having my basic needs, and being around those I love.[/b]

Basic needs eh...would you consider the computer that you are typing up all these posts on to be a "basic need"? I bet you're sitting in a pretty comfortable chair too....you might even be sipping on a cool, refreshing Coca-Cola? Get my point?

As for those of you who think that your country (I'm Canadian) was "founded on the noble idea of voting" should think about that for a second. The only people who were allowed to vote at that time were male land-owners. So..that would've included rich white men...and no one else. Heck, the only reason that the concept of a President ever came into reality was to give the masses the impression that there was a King in charge while still keeping the power in the hands of guess who?....Rich white men.

God bless America!

[gameover]

Basic needs eh...would you consider the computer that you are typing up all these posts on to be a \"basic need\"? I bet you're sitting in a pretty comfortable chair too....you might even be sipping on a cool, refreshing Coca-Cola? Get my point? [/b]

This is not my computer, and this is not my chair. I am lucky enough to have a kind brother who has taken me into his home when he knows I have nowhere else to be. And I would never be caught dead drinking Coca-cola. Corn syrup, sugar, and more bullshit. I live on very little. For the past year I'e been able to carry all of my possesions on my back(still that way). All I worry about is my basic needs which is not to say I don't enjoy greater things. But I don't require more than basic needs.

As for those of you who think that your country (I'm Canadian) was \"founded on the noble idea of voting\" should think about that for a second. The only people who were allowed to vote at that time were male land-owners. So..that would've included rich white men...and no one else. Heck, the only reason that the concept of a President ever came into reality was to give the masses the impression that there was a King in charge while still keeping the power in the hands of guess who?....Rich white men. *

God bless America![/b]

Beautifully put. God bless America! And no one esle!

[Howie]

Originally posted by gameover
If everyone in America had decided to ignore the police one day, then they would be almost powerless. Thier power would be reduced to thier physical force. There's more of us than thier are f them. And what is the government made of? People. Have you ever seen \"a Bugs Life?\" THe ants were ruled by the grasshoppers only because they recognized the grasshoppers authority. WHen they all stopped recognizing thier power, the grasshoppers had none, and were run out.

The fact is this will never happen. Power by numbers is a beuitiful Idea but you live in a democracey and until you learn that sitting back and doing nothing makes things worse then that is all it will do is get worse. You say put your effort into your family. Don't you think that my property tax (that I got to vote on)) Makes a differance to my famiy & the people I care about?

[gameover]

The fact is this will never happen.[/b]

Probably not. Ive stressed time and time again that I'm not here to change the shape of the world. Just my corner. I was simply offering what would happen, if others followed.

Power by numbers is a beuitiful Idea but you live in a democracey and until you learn that sitting back and doing nothing makes things worse then that is all it will do is get worse[/b]

Ignoring the government hasn't made anything worse for me. When I used to care about politics, thats when It would hurt me because I felt so powerless. No matter what I did, the shape of the world remained the same. But now I accept the world the way it is. THe world is never going to be the exact way I want it, or even close for that matter. But the things that do matter I can make right. I can keep in touch with my mom and always let her know I love her. I can talk to my little sister about everything in life she's getting excited about, and encourage her to keep doing all the wonderfull things she does. I can be with family when they are dealing with pain too great to bear alone. I can give my girlfriend all the love she needs. THats how I've changed my world for the better. That's how I add positive influence. Politics have never brought anything of value nto my life. Never.

Don't you think that my property tax (that I got to vote on) or the park district appeal in my county (that I got to vote on) Makes a differance to my famiy & the people I care about?[/b]

I bet thier happiness is rooted in something much deeper than property taxes and the park district appeal. But I'm not here to put down others for voting. Im just explaining why It has no palce in my life, and why I've come to the conclusion that all energy I put into politics, is wasted energy.

[Howie]

Originally posted by gameover
Politics have never brought anything of value nto my life. Never.
How about freedom of speech?
You are living off the freedoms of our government and then putting it down.
I guess it is just a matter of opion. I certainly agree with your values. ;)

[gameover]

How about freedom of speech? *
You are living off the freedoms of our government and then putting it down.[/b]

No one \"gave\" me these freedoms. I was born with them. If anything, the govenment attempts to take away some of my natural freedoms. If someone told you \"I give you persmission to sleep tonight!\" would you thank them? Anyways this thread jsut doesn't seem to end....whew Im tired. :P

Voting is just giving in to thier way of life. So I dare eveyone to stay home this election season and show these politicians that you're not playing thier games. Puppet A or puppet B? Kerry and Bush are good buddy's(Skull and Bones. woo woo!) Who gives a shit, I'm going to sleep.[/b]

So casual was this line that started all of this! How about we all shake hands and get back to other matters. :cheers: Or not, I can do this all year! :banana:

[Joseph_Stalin]

Originally posted by gameover
If everyone in America had decided to ignore the police one day, then they would be almost powerless. Thier power would be reduced to thier physical force. There's more of us than thier are f them. And what is the government made of? People. Have you ever seen \"a Bugs Life?\" THe ants were ruled by the grasshoppers only because they recognized the grasshoppers authority. WHen they all stopped recognizing thier power, the grasshoppers had none, and were run out.


You forget that the government still has military and a lot more technological power over the general public. Worse comes to worst, the federal side could win by dropping nukes on us. Sad, but true.

[gameover]

You forget that the government still has military and a lot more technological power over the general public. Worse comes to worst, the federal side could win by dropping nukes on us. Sad, but true.[/b]

Nuking the polulation would be like drinking bleach to kill cancer. You'll kill the cancer sure...but you'll kill yourslef too. Nuking the populus would have no value to the government. And anyways, I'm not gonna change my lifestyle in fear of nukes. Nuke away if you must, Im living my life the way I must.

[Alric]

Thats not even an option. I personlly don't believe anyone will ever use a nuke againt anyone, and they sure not going to use one on themself.

[gameover]

Thats not even an option. I personlly don't believe anyone will ever use a nuke againt anyone, and they sure not going to use one on themself.[/b]

What he said :D

[Joseph_Stalin]

I said it was just hypothetical :D Just trying to show the government can win.

[Taosaur]

I think it's only a matter of time before someone nukes someone somewhere. I would hate for W. and his paranoid cronies to be in office if that happened. I'm half convinced that he would like to see someone nuke Jerusalem, so that Jesus can take him away and let God punish all the bad people.

[Death-Wuad]

Originally posted by Taosaur
I think it's only a matter of time before someone nukes someone somewhere. *I would hate for W. and his paranoid cronies to be in office if that happened. *I'm half convinced that he would like to see someone nuke Jerusalem, so that Jesus can take him away and let God punish all the bad people.

Yeah, it seems like Bush is trying to bring about the apocolypse and all that ultimate judgement crap. It seems like his stance is- Kill all evil, even if good gets destroyed in the process. Bush will bring about a major global disaster WHEN he gets reelected (people are stupid enough to vote for him!), and when he gets reelected, I'm gonna run around the street naked because it's all over folks!

[Jin]

I vote for these guys:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00006SM86.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[Alric]

For most countries using a nuke is like a death sentence. In this day of age people around the world are pretty lenient, just look at iraq. Other than the US and a few other places no one cared what they did. Well once you nuke someone all the money in the world isn't going to be enough to bribe people to leave you alone. Your pretty much dead.

[gameover]

New Thug Order is where it's at!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00006SM86.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[Howie]

Originally posted by Death-Waud
Yeah, it seems like Bush is trying to bring about the apocolypse and all that ultimate judgement crap. It seems like his stance is- Kill all evil, even if good gets destroyed in the process. Bush will bring about a major global disaster WHEN he gets reelected (people are stupid enough to vote for him!), and when he gets reelected, I'm gonna run around the street naked because it's all over folks!

Heaven forbid you resovle a problem before it becomes one. Maybe you are right. Let the rogue nations aquire weapons of mass distruction and have an insane leader use these powers to blackmale us. We all no that anyother country besides the U.S.A. won't help anyway.

[OpheliaBlue]

I selected Kerry, but in all honesty, I would vote for a cum bubble, just to avoid voting for Bush.

[Joseph_Stalin]

Bush is basically assured destruction...Kerry is just a detour. ;)

[imported_Berserk_Exodus]

Assured destruction for whom?

I would have to say that republico-fascism does wonders for an economy and moral of a nation. Take Nazi Germany for example, pulled 'em straight out of a depression.

And anyways, all of you go on either side according to your presumptions.
In all good there is some evil and in all evil there is some good. Most people don't even look into candidates, they just take what the telly tells them at face value. The media is all about covering the truth.

Personally, I'm going to vote Libertarian, but in the end, presidential votes are squat.

Watch the Democrats cry and whine when the Republicans win the election like they did the last one. I consider the New Democrats more like Federalists than anything. I would happily take war and depression over socialism and lies.

[gameover]

I used to be a libretarian back in the day. Probably the lesser of the evils but it's all a waste of time in my book.

I would happily take war and depression over socialism and lies.[/b]

Try war, socialism, depression, and lies. If you don't see Bush's socialism then you're not looking at everything he does. You think a tax cut changes the fact that he does take your earnings and uses them to fight wars and supports social security and countless other socialist programs. And If you're not seeing Bush's lies, then you're pretty gullible.

[imported_Berserk_Exodus]

Income taxes and a certain naughty president started all of that. We've had that for quite awhile now.

To me, Republicans and Democrats are basically two sides of the same coin. It's about power.

As I said before, the media's job is manipulation so it is quite hard to see past his "lies". How am I supposed to know if he is in fact lying and screwing us in the arse if I don't investigate it myself? I certainly cant take someone's word on it.

The only way that Libertarianism will pick up speed is if people actually get involved on the local level. Mayors and such.

I'm not gullible at all sirrah. I for one will not be voting this November.

[gameover]

A true libretarian is an anarchist

[docKnubis]

:shock: i know i will vote if i could for howard dean "hi yaaah" :cheers:

[CT]

Originally posted by gameover
A true libretarian is an anarchist

Sounds like me. Sorta. :D

[imported_Berserk_Exodus]

Originally posted by gameover
A true libretarian is an anarchist

There would be no libertarian party if all libertarians were anarchists.

[gameover]

There would be no libertarian party if all libertarians were anarchists. [/b]

So? Why do we need a party anyways? Libretarianism is a philosophy of the way the world works and does not require any organization and gathering of people. Libretarianism is a tao.

[Joseph_Stalin]

Yes, and conservatives are all facists.... ;)

[CT]

and socialist are all weirdo commies.