"Something Big is going to happen..."

[guerilla]

http://www.granitebaypt.com/detail/89027.html

According to Congressman Ron Paul, in his latest speech to the congress he warned that imminent catastrophe and chaos will occur in the United States and around the world.

An economic crisis, a Great Depression.

Read on.



What people have been recommending lately is to buy gold, and silver, and even platinum, precious metals will save our precious asses when the value of fiat currency (credit money) drops to zero.


Ron says we are about 10% into this depression, and is only going to get worse, and worse

"liberty will be in hibernation"


Sound scary?

[Mes Tarrant]

Pretty dramatic speech.

I'm not sure I understand the recommendation to buy precious metals tho.

[skysaw]

I'm not sure I understand the recommendation to buy precious metals tho.
I think it's sort of like the recommendation they used to give to school kids in the 50s to hide under their desks if an atom bomb is dropped.

[Pensive Patrick]

Pretty dramatic speech.

I'm not sure I understand the recommendation to buy precious metals tho.

I'm assuming it's because the price of precious metals, since they are limited, will stay constant.

[guerilla]

The reason precious metals are so important is this:

Say you have 100,000 federal reserve dollars

Tomorrow the economy collapses, those 100,000 dollars are worth 100,000 pieces of toilet paper, good for wiping your butt.


With gold, which is around 900 dollars an ounce, if you have 2 ounces of gold when the stock market crashes, that gold could be worth 1000-2000 dollars AN OUNCE!

Which means, you'll be rich, and everyone else with fiat/credit/paper money will be crying their eyes out.

Also, platinum is even more valuable..I don't know the figures but its nearly triple the price of gold

Silver is picking up value quickly, its still cheap, your best bet is to buy silver, and put it in a fireproof safe and when shit hits the fan, you'll be okay.

When economies do bad, values of precious metals goes up, invest now before they skyrocket even more!


I know I will jump on the silver bandwagon VERY soon.


If only the freaking money in our pockets was on the gold standard.

[skysaw]

If money becomes worthless, who will buy your gold at $1000 an ounce?

[guerilla]

If money becomes worthless, who will buy your gold at $1000 an ounce?

Other countries, is America the only country on earth?

You can sell it to foregn nations with stronger currencies...EX

AUS/EU/Pound/CDN

1 ounce of gold would go for around 700 Euro's now, roughly

If americas dollar falls any more, gold will value more, meaning in europe you can maybe even get 1200 per ounce of gold.

That's if the world economy holds together.

If it doesn't, then were screwed reguardless of paper or metal i guess?

[A Roxxor]

Yeah, if you have $100,000 in Gold and the economy is shit then you still have $0 until you leave the US.

[guerilla]

Yeah, if you have $100,000 in Gold and the economy is shit then you still have $0 until you leave the US.

Not entirely true

Gold has value reguardless of the land your on, before economies existed, gold was used as currency.

Gold, Silver, and Platinum will always hold value, even in a stone-age society.

Keep the metals reguardless, if we suddendly plunge into the medieval times again, we will have gold/currency to buy or barter with.

[skysaw]

Personally I'll stick to goats and sheep. Now there's some barterable equity!

[guerilla]

lol skysaw, wanna start a ranch together, I'll keep the gold and you keep the sheep happy fed and clean and wolf-free lol

We'll be great depression proof.

[skysaw]

lol skysaw, wanna start a ranch together, I'll keep the gold and you keep the sheep happy fed and clean and wolf-free lol

We'll be great depression proof.
You might want to rethink that idea. I plan on charging a LOT of gold for my sheep! :D

[Mes Tarrant]

Lulz. :P

No matter how bad things get, we will not be bartering with gold coins or whatever.

What would be the point of buying them anyway if the end goal is to get out of the country.

And lol @ the hiding under desks thing!! :lol:

[guerilla]

No no, we'll be in a partnership, You'll be a sheep herder and I'll be a gold herder :D

in some mountain area, with trees and rivers and creeks and wild animals, we'll never run out of food and water, and we can make our own alcohol and grow our own um pot lol...

most people would call it a depression me and skysaw would call it:

The Great success!

That'd be fun.

lets hope this depression doesn't really happen though, in all seriousness

[aceofspades]

and ill build the internet and join you guys. I can build radar around out place and warn for people. Than we can use you gold to pay for laborers who will double as soliers because we will loot guns shops and take all their guns and keep all of our guns under lock and key so only we can get to them and break them out wen get attacke.d I can even hire some mexicans and they can build us our mansion :P

[Serkat]

This thread is now about recipes for gold and silver food.

Congressman Paul has quite obviously completely lost it.

[guerilla]

This thread is now about recipes for gold and silver food.

Congressman Paul has quite obviously completely lost it.

Actually no, were all going to lose it, by it meaning our money

If anyone's lost it, its the fucking congress, he's the only congressman with sanity and logical thoughts and logical voting records.

[Serkat]

The only thing I don't like about Paul is his insistence on states' rights. What's the point of creating liberty if some douche will trample all over it with local jurisdictions? Also, what with absolutely no regulation of anything? It's great that he's in favor of legalizing drugs, but what good is it if they are completely unregulated? You can't sell old food with a new Best Before, you shouldn't be able to sell low quality drugs. But Ron Paul is eh pretty cool guy.

[guerilla]

The only thing I don't like about Paul is his insistence on states' rights. What's the point of creating liberty if some douche will trample all over it with local jurisdictions? Also, what with absolutely no regulation of anything? It's great that he's in favor of legalizing drugs, but what good is it if they are completely unregulated? You can't sell old food with a new Best Before, you shouldn't be able to sell low quality drugs. But Ron Paul is eh pretty cool guy.

You have good points, and I totally agree

But its a HECK of alot better then the mccain/obama alternative no?

I think states rights should only apply to certain things, not abortion or gay marrige, and unregulated drugs, maybe it could work? maybe not

but I do agree, that I disagree with dr.paul a little but, 99% of his positions are like the gold standard to me.

[wendylove]

Ron says we are about 10% into this depression, and is only going to get worse, and worse
Yeah, and what Ron Paul says is always the truth.

What people have been recommending lately is to buy gold, and silver, and even platinum, precious metals will save our precious asses when the value of fiat currency (credit money) drops to zero.
Alternatively, buy tin foil make a hat and put it on your head.

I wouldn't worry about what crazy people say.

[A Roxxor]

You do realize that this is the rough equivalent of the CEO of Exxon/Mobile telling everyone to stock up on Gasoline, right?

[guerilla]

Yeah, and what Ron Paul says is always the truth.


Alternatively, buy tin foil make a hat and put it on your head.

I wouldn't worry about what crazy people say.

Umkay.

You do realize that this is the rough equivalent of the CEO of Exxon/Mobile telling everyone to stock up on Gasoline, right?


How is that, would you care to explain?

Does Ron Paul own gold or silver making companies? how is this akin to a ceo of exxon saying buy oil?

I just don't see how a politician warning us of economic collapse is similar to that. He is warning us for our own good, I know I'm going to be prepared for a depression if one hits, which I hope it won't.

I do however believe we can avoid a depression if we start getting on the renewable resource bandwagon, and start paying resonable prices for our fuel at the pump, wether it be ethanol, natural gas, synthetic fuel, or gasoline.

Once we start paying less at the pump, the economy will become stronger, and things will become cheaper such as food prices, which are driven by oil prices due to the transportation of the foods.

T. Boone Pickens testified before the senate today, with a energy plan which would reduce our dependency on foregn oil by 38%

This 10 year plan of his would bring gasoline prices down to the 2 dollar mark he claimed, this would surely de-rail any coming depression, or it may just delay it.


The housing bubble of the 90's that greenspan created are going to collapse very soon, the prices of homes were artificially risen to give people the feeling that their property was worth more then it really is.

This is called malinvestment, all of the malinvestment of the 20th century WILL COME BACK TO HAUNT US.

And it will come to haunt us in the form of a depression, high oil prices, high prices of food, less jobs, more unemployment and low confidence in the market, and the housing bubble collapsing, banks are closing.

You tell me a depression isn't coming, and I'll laugh.


You may tell me to put a tinfoil hat on, but when the depression hits, I'll be laughing with my tin-foil hats, because you won't be able to afford tin foil, or food.

[ray]

i have the solution..............wait for it................................................ .................................................. .................................................. .........................................go AMISH! :D

[AmazeO XD]

Ron Paul is just shooting shit.

[guerilla]

Yea yea yea, keep denying the inevitable.

When the depression hits, I will laugh at you :P

[AmazeO XD]

Yea yea yea, keep denying the inevitable.

When the depression hits, I will laugh at you :P

When the depression hits, you'll be too sad to laugh.

[guerilla]

Not if I have 2 bricks of platinum :D

[wendylove]

Sorry, but Ron Paul is stupid.

If America does go into depression then the rest of the world would. Because every economy is linked with the US in some way, like China. If US collaspses then China has no where to sell lead poison toys. Russia, would not have a rich Europe country to take there gas and oil, and I think the rest of Middle east would suffer from US not taking there oil.

So Gold and other stuff will become worthless, as I think in a depression people don't waste there money. It kind of like in the last depression people were selling there cars for about 10% of the true value.

The fact is if US goes down, it taking everybody with it. However, Ron Paul is not an economist.

Once we start paying less at the pump, the economy will become stronger, and things will become cheaper such as food prices, which are driven by oil prices due to the transportation of the foods.

The government does not dictate the prices of oil, so unless they have a gas tax break for three years, then were going to be hit by oil prices.

Actually, food prices are going up because of the increase of people. Lowering oil prices, which is impossible would not make the amount of food avaliable increase.

And it will come to haunt us in the form of a depression, high oil prices, high prices of food, less jobs, more unemployment and low confidence in the market, and the housing bubble collapsing, banks are closing.
No it won't. Firstly, banks are not closing, espically the big banks. Lastly, were in a recession, which means things are bad, however its not the end of the world.

I bet if Ron Paul told you that aliens were coming to get us and to put on tin foil hats, you would.

[guerilla]

once again wendy, your wrong.

even if the global economy totally collapsed, gold would have value reguardless, it is a valued metal, and before money existed it had value.

here's an example.


Tomorrow, world economy collapses, money is valueless

say you goto your neighboor, and see that he has 10 tanks of gas stored away for emergencies, you offer your neighboor 1/4 of an ounce of gold, for his gasoline.

Would he turn down the gold? I think not.


You would be able to barter with it better then any other commodity out there.

[wendylove]

even if the global economy totally collapsed, gold would have value reguardless, it is a valued metal, and before money existed it had value.

No it won't. If you look at cars during the great depression, you couldn't even sell them for half there real value. Because, people didn't care about having cars they wanted food and a home and jobs.
say you goto your neighboor, and see that he has 10 tanks of gas stored away for emergencies, you offer your neighboor 1/4 of an ounce of gold, for his gasoline.

Would he turn down the gold? I think not.
Unless he stupid, he would take the gold. Without gasoline he wouldn't be able to drive his car, which would proberly mean bye bye to his job and house. For example, if it really got that bad, would you give up your food for gold?

Say your family is starving and you needed food, would you give up your gold for food?

Thats the problem if you can't afford to buy gasoline then you can't afford to buy food and other stuff. So unless you can eat gold, your dead. Just like in the great depression, owning a car is rubbish if your starving, that how you got people selling there cars for about 10% of there true value.

[aceofspades]

Sorry, but Ron Paul is stupid.

If America does go into depression then the rest of the world would. Because every economy is linked with the US in some way, like China. If US collaspses then China has no where to sell lead poison toys. Russia, would not have a rich Europe country to take there gas and oil, and I think the rest of Middle east would suffer from US not taking there oil.

So Gold and other stuff will become worthless, as I think in a depression people don't waste there money. It kind of like in the last depression people were selling there cars for about 10% of the true value.

The fact is if US goes down, it taking everybody with it. However, Ron Paul is not an economist.


The government does not dictate the prices of oil, so unless they have a gas tax break for three years, then were going to be hit by oil prices.

Actually, food prices are going up because of the increase of people. Lowering oil prices, which is impossible would not make the amount of food avaliable increase.


No it won't. Firstly, banks are not closing, espically the big banks. Lastly, were in a recession, which means things are bad, however its not the end of the world.

I bet if Ron Paul told you that aliens were coming to get us and to put on tin foil hats, you would.
news flash we already in a recession...and there really isnt any doubt about it. Ask ANY buisness owner in South Florida and they will agree. Right now South Florida is getting hit with the brunt of the recession due to the housing collapse.


And of course we are heading towards the wrong direction....dont you people see during te clinton administration our government had a 200 billion dollar surplus now our government owes over 3 trillion dollars....where is that money going to come from.

And yah gas, healthcare, and food are what is driving this country striaght towards a depression. Just look how expansive food is. Gas is insane now. 4 dollars a gallon is destroying us. Do you know what minimum wage is....8 dollars. That means people have to work a full day just to fill a 16 gallon tank.

Its quite obvious..we are having an insane amount of inflation yet our wages are staying the same....what do you think that spells out to?

[guerilla]

No it won't. If you look at cars during the great depression, you couldn't even sell them for half there real value. Because, people didn't care about having cars they wanted food and a home and jobs.

Unless he stupid, he would take the gold. Without gasoline he wouldn't be able to drive his car, which would proberly mean bye bye to his job and house. For example, if it really got that bad, would you give up your food for gold?

Say your family is starving and you needed food, would you give up your gold for food?

Thats the problem if you can't afford to buy gasoline then you can't afford to buy food and other stuff. So unless you can eat gold, your dead. Just like in the great depression, owning a car is rubbish if your starving, that how you got people selling there cars for about 10% of there true value.


What the hell does the value of cars have to do with gold? did you even bother to read that I said gold retains value even if the economy collapses?

I didn't say cars held their value.


Also, I'm pretty sure someone wouldn't give up food for gold, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about, and your just side tracking and not even reading or comprehending a word I said.

I won't waste my time explaining how a real economy works to someone who thinks were not in a recession headed toward depression, and especially to someone who doesn't trust a man like Ron Paul.

[Oneironaut]

For what it's worth (which may or may not be much), as far as I know, guerilla is right about the worth of precious metals as opposed to the paper dollar. Precious metals like gold and silver hold their value much, MUCH better than currency from any country. If the value of the dollar drops, gold will still stay the same value. If what was nearly twice the value of a euro suddenly decreases to 1/3 the value of a euro, the value of gold will not change value. That is the overall advantage of investing in precious metals. Sure, there could be a fluctuation here and there, but I really don't see it sharing the same up and down scale as internal currency. Maybe I'm wrong. I dunno. But from everything I've heard in the not-too-distant past, he's not far from the truth.

[Kromoh]

Seriously. If I knew the economy would collapse and knew that buying gold would save me, I wouldn't go and spread the news - the more people buy gold, the less it will be worth when economy crashes.

This is a hoax. False alarm. Though american economy is doing bad and will get worse. I suggest moving rather than buying yellow pieces of metal.

This reminds me of that guy who said the world would come to an end in year 2000, and got thousands of people to commit suicide. Don't do it.

[aceofspades]

lol but on another note if your going to invest in something precious metals are a good investment. Sure the ROI isnt too high but there is almost no risk. Precious metals will never lose value...they will just gradually gain value at a rate that is faster than any savings account..

Obviously not much choices for investment right now...especially not the stock market, housing, banks, etc.

[wendylove]

What the hell does the value of cars have to do with gold? did you even bother to read that I said gold retains value even if the economy collapses?
Supply and demand, if the US economy collapses then buying gold would not be at the top of people list, hence the value of gold will drop.
That is the overall advantage of investing in precious metals.
Not really, if the dollar drops then every currency will drop. Hence, overall people will stop buying gold, hence shops that sell gold will lower the prices.

In a economic depression consumer spending is really low, unless you get some idiots then they won't sacrifice there food or petrol for gold.

I suggest moving rather than buying yellow pieces of metal.
Move to China, they are the only economy that was not effected by the recession we are in now.

I won't waste my time explaining how a real economy works to someone who thinks were not in a recession headed toward depression, and especially to someone who doesn't trust a man like Ron Paul.
Ron Paul does not know nothing about economics, if he was head of a university in economics and saying this, then I would listen. However, he is just a joke.

Obviously not much choices for investment right now...especially not the stock market, housing, banks, etc.
Actually this is the best time. Since everything stock is selling for a lower prices then usual, if you buy some smartly now then when everything returns to normal you would get lots of money. I remeber a news report about how some people were trying to scare people by making false claims so they can buy their shares. However, everything seems to be returning to normal, so don't worry.

[guerilla]

Wendy I don't know if you haven't noticed but, every time the US dollar goes down, gold goes up.

Gold has gone up steadily from nearly 200 dollars an ounce in the Reagan years, to about 1000 an ounce today.

The cause is inflation, when the money supply is inflated it is worth less, meaning you need more of that credit to purchase the same item, which in turn means the cost or value of gold rises when the economy does poorly.

So in reality, not in wendy imaginary economy land, gold goes up during a depression.

during the last great depression the government seized all gold from citizens, ask yourself why they did this.

Why? because they knew citizens could get by with gold during a depression, and they and the federal reserve did not want that.

Also, Ron Paul is an economist pretty much, he has extensive knowledge of the economy and knows what the fuck he's talking about, you on the other hand don't know what you are talking about at all, period.


I'm just going to ignore your future posts, because i know they will consist of:


"Ron is dumb, im smart, I'm right and a man with 50+ years of experience with economics is wrong"

Ron Paul has known economics since before you were even born, so please be quiet because your wrong, dead wrong about the economy, and about Ron Paul.


It's people like you who are so brainwashed by mainstream economics which flaunt the fiat system of credit CRAP money which was illegally instated by the illegal federal reserve..

The federal reserve was illegaly created and is illegally run, along with the illegal 16th amendment of the income tax, and the irs.


But don't listen to me, Gold will lose its value according to wendy...even though gold gets more value every day due to the stagnant economy..

but don't listen to me, I only have solid hard credible facts to back my statements up, you have solid hard air to back up your rhetoric about gold being worthless in a depression.

Do me a favor and save yourself the embarrassment of being a fool.

[aceofspades]

Wendy I don't know if you haven't noticed but, every time the US dollar goes down, gold goes up.

Gold has gone up steadily from nearly 200 dollars an ounce in the Reagan years, to about 1000 an ounce today.

The cause is inflation, when the money supply is inflated it is worth less, meaning you need more of that credit to purchase the same item, which in turn means the cost or value of gold rises when the economy does poorly.

So in reality, not in wendy imaginary economy land, gold goes up during a depression.

during the last great depression the government seized all gold from citizens, ask yourself why they did this.

Why? because they knew citizens could get by with gold during a depression, and they and the federal reserve did not want that.

Also, Ron Paul is an economist pretty much, he has extensive knowledge of the economy and knows what the fuck he's talking about, you on the other hand don't know what you are talking about at all, period.


I'm just going to ignore your future posts, because i know they will consist of:


"Ron is dumb, im smart, I'm right and a man with 50+ years of experience with economics is wrong"

Ron Paul has known economics since before you were even born, so please be quiet because your wrong, dead wrong about the economy, and about Ron Paul.


It's people like you who are so brainwashed by mainstream economics which flaunt the fiat system of credit CRAP money which was illegally instated by the illegal federal reserve..

The federal reserve was illegaly created and is illegally run, along with the illegal 16th amendment of the income tax, and the irs.


But don't listen to me, Gold will lose its value according to wendy...even though gold gets more value every day due to the stagnant economy..

but don't listen to me, I only have solid hard credible facts to back my statements up, you have solid hard air to back up your rhetoric about gold being worthless in a depression.

Do me a favor and save yourself the embarrassment of being a fool.
thus that was the purpose of the gold standard. Gold/Silver/Titanium/etc will never go down and will at minimum increase with the level of inflation our country has.

In truth when u invest your money in a bank with a 1% yield your actually losing money because inflation is a lot more than 1% a year.

I mean 20 years ago you could get a soda for fifty cents...now its at least 75-100 cents.

[guerilla]

thus that was the purpose of the gold standard. Gold/Silver/Titanium/etc will never go down and will at minimum increase with the level of inflation our country has.

In truth when u invest your money in a bank with a 1% yield your actually losing money because inflation is a lot more than 1% a year.

I mean 20 years ago you could get a soda for fifty cents...now its at least 75-100 cents.

FINALLY someone who agree's, someone with logic..

Thank you :hug: :smitten:


Today the value of the dollar went UP and gold went down

Which proves my point:

When the dollar falls, gold rises, when the dollar rises, gold falls

And this is FACT

Wendy, the value of gold does not fall when the dollar does, the opposite occurs

Look at the value today, go on google and google gold on google news, and see it for yourself if you don't believe reality, then you need help hun, see a economist.

[aceofspades]

FINALLY someone who agree's, someone with logic..

Thank you :hug: :smitten:


Today the value of the dollar went UP and gold went down

Which proves my point:

When the dollar falls, gold rises, when the dollar rises, gold falls

And this is FACT

Wendy, the value of gold does not fall when the dollar does, the opposite occurs

Look at the value today, go on google and google gold on google news, and see it for yourself if you don't believe reality, then you need help hun, see a economist.
well dah anyone who graduated grade school would know that. If the value of dollar goes up than precious metals are worth the same but they cost less....because the dollar is worth more. Conversely if the dollar falls to the point where it now takes 5 dollars to buy your soda now it takes 5k rather than 1k to buy a gold bullion.

That is simply the concept of inflation. There will always be some amount of inflation because it is natural because the government puts more currency into circulation and loans money through the federal reserve bank. But during a period of economic downturn (eg. a recession) the inflation rate skyrockets beyond normal rates due to other factors like the price of gas and food.

Simple economics.

But I myself am always weary of brash the country is falling apart simply because I *try* to be optimist. Although no matter how optimist I try to be it doesn't change the fact that our economy is in bad shape. Whether we are heading into a depression or not....we are heading in the wrong direct as a country.

[guerilla]

I'm glad you decided to join this thread, I've been trying to explain gold vs currency to wendy and she always responds with:

"when the economy collapses, gold will be worthless"

And

"ron paul is an idiot, go wear a tin foil hat"


Sadly, people like her know nothing about what they are talking about, and they resort to name calling and the oh so lame tin foil hat conspiracy excuse.

[aceofspades]

well like I said you should always be weary of "Dooms Day Scenerio". I personally don't think we will go into a depression but its obvious we are going somewhere...and its not a destination we should be heading towards.

And yah gold is probobly a god thing to invest in.

Although right now you gotta understand that I simply have to be optimist since my family is opening up 3 buisnesses in South Florida and if this country went into a depression me and my family would be homeless. So all i can do is hope for the best. Since worrying about it isn't going to help. Whether or not I worry about it if this country's economy collapses...than I am royally f*cked

[wendylove]

Whether we are heading into a depression or not....we are heading in the wrong direct as a country.
I agree with this, however acting like around the corner a great depression is going to occur is not helping.

If a depression occurs then it would proberly be worse then the great depression. Although, gold was used as standard currency in the depression, I'm not arguing with this. But, if a depression happens again then I pretty sure everything will go down the pan, which means no food, no petrol and no gas. Which, would means were all screwed, the only chance you have is to move to another country.

When Rome fell then life went downhill. If a depression hits then US will be like Rome.

However, the recession is over, most economist are saying things are bad, however it getting better. So you don't need to buy gold or go to China or Japan.

It's people like you who are so brainwashed by mainstream economics which flaunt the fiat system of credit CRAP money which was illegally instated by the illegal federal reserve..
Brainwashed mainstream economics, yeah can you leave the conspiracy theories out of this thread.

[skysaw]

The relationship between gold and the dollar is fairly straightforward, but breaks down at the extremes. The most important thing is that there is no such thing as true intrinsic value. Things are only worth what people will pay or trade for them.

Most people know that a decrease in currency value means an increase in the value of precious metals. It also means an increase in the value of almost every thing that is NOT currency, expecially essentials such as food, clothing, fuel, etc.

But food, clothing, and fuel will always have value by virtue of their direct usefulness. No matter what the economy, you will need to eat. As the value of the dollar nears zero, what happens to gold? Well... what is gold good for? It's good for jewelry, some electronic applications, and aside from hoarding that's about it.

Now let's imagine that money becomes completely worthless, and we are reduced to a barter system. Which is more important to the average person, gold or dinner? Dinner wins, no contest. Gold is only of value after you are fed. The question now becomes, how well fed will we be if the dollar goes bust? What will we have to barter in order to get food from those who grow and transport it? Well those growers are first going to want farming equipment, fuel, fertilizers, etc. And until they have enough of all that, they won't care about gold either. Without those things, their crops will not be sold, and they too will find no use for gold.

What I'm trying to point out here is that the value of gold vs. the value of the dollar is not a simple inverse relationship. The relationship severely breaks down as we approach zero. Investing in gold while the dollar is worth less only really makes sense if you anticipate a time when the dollar recovers. It's at that time that your investment will prove fruitful and you can sell some of your gold for a great profit.

SO

If you think the dollar will recover, buy gold. If you think it will tank completely and never recover, buy fuel, seeds, land, etc.

[Schmaven]

Unless everyone is starving and desperately in need of food, then gold will have trading power. There will always be someone hoarding food or some other necessity, and those are the people who would most likely trade that food for gold.

[guerilla]

So, let's get back to the topic at hand:

Do you think a depression is coming?

No more arguing over gold and silver and paper, lets just discuss depression

I am sick, and tired of all of these hateful arguements on dreamviews, what ever happened to the happy go lucky everyone is nice community? It vanished

Let's just get along, and maturely discuss the rest of this thread with respect, without arguements or name calling or tin foil hat references, it MUST STOP NOW.


So guys, shall we?

And wendy, here's a :hug:

I'm sorry I was so..bitchy..I shouldn't take out my own frustrations out on you and im sorry for doing so, I get caught up in the moment alot of times, and I don't sit back and think about what I say occasionally.

I apologize to anyone I offended, so everyone, lets continue.

[wendylove]

I think we just have to live with high oil prices. However, I guess this has the bonus off forcing everyone away from oil.

The economy is not going into a depression. Saying that would a depression be that bad, I could start a communist coup and come to power as a dictator:banana:.

I think we should tax the rich, because the big factor in the last depression was the fact that rich and poor gap was huge. In todays society we have a big rich and poor gap, so I think we should take from the rich.

Also, no more tax breaks for the rich.

[guerilla]

Damn right, the rich should bear the burden of tax, not us....The reason you see so many bush lovers is because they are rich, and bush doesn't tax them, thats why they don't CARE about bush's policies, as long as they don't get taxed they don't care.

Once the rich get taxed, then they'll start worrying about inflation and the wars and the economy...as for now, the rich think the economy is BOOMING..lol booming

And wendy, thanks for replying again, I know you read it before but, I was being such a little bitch, maybe thats why im Super Ducks bitch? Anyways, sorry still.

[Schmaven]

The way I see it, the main problem is people's love of money. Too many people are just out to make money at all costs, and now it's coming around to bite everyone in the ass. What worries me more than a depression, is what happens when we run out of oil? There isn't an unlimited supply of it, and we rely on it for a large percentage of our food production.

[guerilla]

When future civilizations look back at us, they will be confused as to why went down this path, but I think we will turn it around in time, people can't just sit back and do nothing .

[arby]

Those who think a depression is avoidable, watch the following:

(it has a long lead up, gets interesting around end of part 6/start of 7 when they stop being environmentalists and start making really good points)

1
2oZIB9rT0E4
2
jAl9u1YLrHY
3
do66cQSGyM4
4
gRQPA3MGrBE
5
WrAN0xzrkIw
6
p1ocUVORfdU
7
8T0KTm_0M4E
8
d4_qZ65BNm0
9
WLn0rfvxVuQ

[Lëzen]

Does anyone in this thread know anything at all about economics? At all? Does Ron Paul know anything about economics, for that matter?

Yes, we're currently in a recession. That's already been established. But where exactly is the evidence that rising oil prices will push the US over the edge into a full-blown depression? According to a great many economists (my college economics teacher included), the rising price of oil is currently not a problem, and that lowering the prices would do nothing but provoke another crisis like the 1970's gas shortage.

I'm just surprised that every time the economy takes a slight downturn, everyone starts to panic - doomsayings of depression fill the air. People stupidly try to pull all their money out of the banks, causing the banking system to collapse, and thereby causing the problem we're trying to avoid here. It's panic about an 'inevitable' chaos that ends up causing and then perpetuating that chaos. So my advice to the American people: Calm the fuck down. Our economy has been contracting and expanding ever since the Great Depression. Not every contraction means an inevitable depression.

And to those of you who actually want to waste your money on gold and silver and platinum...more power to you. I'll get to make good use of the fiat money that I have, spending it on things that matter like food and clothing and shelter, in the time you take to blow it on jewelry in preparation for a depression that isn't going to happen any time soon.

And, I should note, wendy makes a good point about every other country being affected by a potential depression in the US. I guess everyone just sort of forgot that practically the entire world was going through the same Great Depression we were.

Hell, take a look at current-day Zimbabwe. I recently read an article about circulation of $10,000,000 bills. Now THAT's a level of hyperinflation we'll never see here.

[aceofspades]

I agree with this, however acting like around the corner a great depression is going to occur is not helping.

If a depression occurs then it would proberly be worse then the great depression. Although, gold was used as standard currency in the depression, I'm not arguing with this. But, if a depression happens again then I pretty sure everything will go down the pan, which means no food, no petrol and no gas. Which, would means were all screwed, the only chance you have is to move to another country.

When Rome fell then life went downhill. If a depression hits then US will be like Rome.

However, the recession is over, most economist are saying things are bad, however it getting better. So you don't need to buy gold or go to China or Japan.


Brainwashed mainstream economics, yeah can you leave the conspiracy theories out of this thread.
see thats just the problem is that we accepting high oil prices. It is not due to any factors but that the oil companies want to charge us more. It is a completely artificial inflation made up by the oil companies.

[guerilla]

Well the main reasons oil prices are rising are these:

1) Value of the dollar falling
2) Increased Demand from China and India...etc
3) Oil speculators in wall street


Currently, if the FED raised interest rates, immediately the price of gas would fall, just by raising interest rates...

For those of you who don't know what that means, it means Decreasing the supply of money, or Deflating the money.

This means there is less money for more people, meaning the dollars you hold buy MORE because of the shorter supply of dollars.

Then, congress and senate should open offshore drilling, and regulate speculators in wall street.

Now the demand issue can also be solved.

One word:

CONSERVATION.

People don't need a 10,000 pound vehicle to goto mcdonalds or work, it is not neccessary to drive a tank to work, especially when your driving alone!!!!

People need to shut off their lights when not in use, ESPECIALLY businesses!

I know thats for electricity, but its important to conserve what we have. We also need to drive slower, and drive smaller more fuel effecient cars, we need to drive less and take less driving vacations.

Also


Police/Fire/Ambulance and other government vehicles should be powered by american natural gas, further lowering demand for gasoline fuel.

This, would bring prices down to a good number.

[aceofspades]

Well the main reasons oil prices are rising are these:

1) Value of the dollar falling
2) Increased Demand from China and India...etc
3) Oil speculators in wall street


Currently, if the FED raised interest rates, immediately the price of gas would fall, just by raising interest rates...

For those of you who don't know what that means, it means Decreasing the supply of money, or Deflating the money.

This means there is less money for more people, meaning the dollars you hold buy MORE because of the shorter supply of dollars.

Then, congress and senate should open offshore drilling, and regulate speculators in wall street.

Now the demand issue can also be solved.

One word:

CONSERVATION.

People don't need a 10,000 pound vehicle to goto mcdonalds or work, it is not neccessary to drive a tank to work, especially when your driving alone!!!!

People need to shut off their lights when not in use, ESPECIALLY businesses!

I know thats for electricity, but its important to conserve what we have. We also need to drive slower, and drive smaller more fuel effecient cars, we need to drive less and take less driving vacations.

Also


Police/Fire/Ambulance and other government vehicles should be powered by american natural gas, further lowering demand for gasoline fuel.

This, would bring prices down to a good number.
yes but ur not gettingthe point. The reason for high oil pries is not because of "market pressures" or "increased cost" its just the oil companies deciding to hike our prices. This all happened because Cheney himself owns an oil company. Heck cheney had a meeting with all the oil company and to this after many hearings and such are still not able to see the records of what was discussed.

1) Oil prices are disprotionately rising compared to other costs.

Although I agree that raising the interest rates is good that has absolutely nothing to with oil. Everything as a whole would cost less but oil prices would still be just as much of a killer.

2) The oil prices have nothing to do with demand...end of story. The oil prices are 100% artificially inflated.

3) Oil speculators aren't causing the prices to go up they simpy anticipate the prices going up or down. The oil companies set the prices.

The bottomline is simply we need to stop being the oil company's bitches. Why do they dictate everything and own this country? This isn't even a republic anymore its so damn corrupt. Why did we let it get like this. We should have drawn the line before katina when the oil companies decided to raise gas prices to 3 dollars and never brought it back down. They figured we complain a little bit but than we just forget about it and shut up.

Thats are problem is that we as Americans don't have the attention span to do anything. We get upset for a while and than stop caring. It's simply our nature. We are all for complaining for a week or so but than we just kind of ignore it and move on.

[guerilla]

Well your right in a way, but most of the rising cost comes from those 3 things I listed, where your going is conspiracy territory, and we don't know if that is true entirely.

[aceofspades]

this isnt conspirary theory. This is just the truth. Only the oil companies have the power to change the prices. We can do everything we want but they aren't going to revert their hikes.

Gas costs the oil companies just as much right now than it did 10 years ago.

You want to know how much gas was pre-bush....$1.25. It isn't even remotely logical to think that "market pressures" caused gas prices to go up 200%

[guerilla]

Hey anyone remember when this thread started, I was called crazy for saying were heading towards a economic collapse, and they called ron paul crazy

sorry to be blunt now but



WHO THE FUCK IS THE CRAZY ONE NOW? HUH?


Our economy is royally utterly fucked, doomed...dead..dying...

And alot of you called me crazy for saying buy gold while its cheap, now its skyrocketing again due to the 700 billion dollar bailout destroying the value of the us dollar.

Yea, and I was the crazy conspiracy theroist 5 months ago, now we all know I was dead on accurate with what I said would happen....and if you think THIS is bad, whats to come is worse.

I will just shoot out a few hints, as to whats coming:


#1 Martial Law
#2 Rioting/civil unrest
#3 War with iran/Civil war?
#4 North American Union, cashless society

[slayer]

Arn't we like billions in debt or something?

I think that we will be royally screwed sooner or later...

But, what's going to happen when we collapse?

Edit: I'm going to move to Japan...

[guerilla]

10.3 + TRILLION in debt, actually

And it won't matter where you move, whatever nations traded dollars and bought our stocks will have a really bad economy also

We're in for some really scary and tough times.

This was on the official news, and on cspan and cnn:

Congressmen were threatened with martial law and war with iran, if they DID NOT SIGN THE BAILOUT BILL.

Either way, martial law is coming, VERY soon.

This week, watch the stock market, it will plummet like you have never seen it plummet before, thank the bailout.

When this happens, riots will break due to americans being pissed about wasting 700Billion to make the economy worse...when that happens...MARTIAL LAW.


And those coffins fema has, they are for us 'unruly americans'

Or as in a recent secret congressional hearing, "Insurgent Americans"

[guerilla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhHWXek574


http://www.youtube.com/v/vIhHWXek574&hl=en&fs=1

http://www.youtube.com/v/jYxTzDFofZQ&hl=en&fs=1

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Representatives-Were-Threa-by-Patrick-Henningsen-081004-301.html

http://www.gambling911.com/politics/martial-law-united-states-military-starts-mission-oct-1-092608.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgnbFCbnB24


Some info on the coming martial law

[Grod]

Arn't we like billions in debt or something?

I think that we will be royally screwed sooner or later...

But, what's going to happen when we collapse?

Edit: I'm going to move to Japan...
weeaboo

[slayer]

10.3 + TRILLION in debt, actually

And it won't matter where you move, whatever nations traded dollars and bought our stocks will have a really bad economy also

We're in for some really scary and tough times.

This was on the official news, and on cspan and cnn:

Congressmen were threatened with martial law and war with iran, if they DID NOT SIGN THE BAILOUT BILL.

Either way, martial law is coming, VERY soon.

This week, watch the stock market, it will plummet like you have never seen it plummet before, thank the bailout.

When this happens, riots will break due to americans being pissed about wasting 700Billion to make the economy worse...when that happens...MARTIAL LAW.


And those coffins fema has, they are for us 'unruly americans'

Or as in a recent secret congressional hearing, "Insurgent Americans"

Shit...is there any special way to get past all this?

[guerilla]

huh? like....getting out of this forsaken country?

Get out before its too late.

[Dodopod]

10.3 + TRILLION in debt, actually

And it won't matter where you move, whatever nations traded dollars and bought our stocks will have a really bad economy also

We're in for some really scary and tough times.

This was on the official news, and on cspan and cnn:

Congressmen were threatened with martial law and war with iran, if they DID NOT SIGN THE BAILOUT BILL.

Either way, martial law is coming, VERY soon.

This week, watch the stock market, it will plummet like you have never seen it plummet before, thank the bailout.

When this happens, riots will break due to americans being pissed about wasting 700Billion to make the economy worse...when that happens...MARTIAL LAW.


And those coffins fema has, they are for us 'unruly americans'

Or as in a recent secret congressional hearing, "Insurgent Americans"
And I thought the recession/depression had served its purpose.

I was thinking things would go more along the lines of the bailout gradually stopping economic failure (temporarily, of course). Then after the election there would be a major terrorist attack, prompting martial law and war with Iran being declared. The value of the dollar starts once again dropping faster and we use Iraq as a base of operations. As the war in Iran reaches its peak of activity, North Korea uses the lack of attention to declare war on South Korea. China requests that we pay back all our debts to them immediately and kicks out US manufacturers. Our economy then collapses almost entirely, and the formation of the NAU is sold as the only way out of the mess. China then allies with NK to attack the new NAU and the other countries that opposed them. etc.

[Wattage]

Well, you guys should get educated on the monetary system. Go watch the new Zeitgeist: Addendum movie at www.zeitgeistmovie.com

Then, you will understand that it's corporate propaganda when you say Ron Paul is a douche. He's actually one of the very few brilliant politicians, who really knows how the system works, and how we are all just "slaves" of the system. Money is nothing more than an illusion. It's created out of thin air.

I'm pretty positive, martial law was used as a threat to get politicians to vote for the bailout.

[Bearsy]

http://www.insurgentamerican.net/intellectual-hardball/insurgent-americans-35-point-practical-guide-for-action/

[Man of Shred]

Well, you guys should get educated on the monetary system. Go watch the new Zeitgeist: Addendum movie at www.zeitgeistmovie.com (http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com)

Then, you will understand that it's corporate propaganda when you say Ron Paul is a douche. He's actually one of the very few brilliant politicians, who really knows how the system works, and how we are all just "slaves" of the system. Money is nothing more than an illusion. It's created out of thin air.

I'm pretty positive, martial law was used as a threat to get politicians to vote for the bailout.


HaG9d_4zij8

[guerilla]

Well, you guys should get educated on the monetary system. Go watch the new Zeitgeist: Addendum movie at www.zeitgeistmovie.com

Then, you will understand that it's corporate propaganda when you say Ron Paul is a douche. He's actually one of the very few brilliant politicians, who really knows how the system works, and how we are all just "slaves" of the system. Money is nothing more than an illusion. It's created out of thin air.

I'm pretty positive, martial law was used as a threat to get politicians to vote for the bailout.


Finally, someone with logic, alot of people in this thread knocked dr.paul down, because they think they know what they are talking about.

When soldiers come pounding down our doors and taking us to fema camps, then we'll see if ron paul was right or not, but then it will be too late, we'll all be shipped off in plastic coffins.

[DNK]

I'm not going to comment on 98% of the posts here, and I'm not going to comment on the likelihood of a depression hitting the world, and I'm not going to comment on martial law and Zeitgeist...

But it does make sense to buy commodities with a long-term perspective before a major downturn (not at the peak of the crisis, in which case it would be a short-term hedging bet). Gold is preferable, if you can get in ahead of time, since it will likely appreciate for a while, and you can afford to be a little slow on selling when the value falls since you got in ahead of the main wave. Other commodities aren't seen as "safety" assets, and will probably see a depreciation along with the general economy (like chromium for instance or copper) as demand dries up with the contraction. Finding a commodity that is likely to remain constant throughout, though, is a safe bet, although I'm personally not aware of any right now (no money to invest so I don't care).

Gold is as risky as any paper asset. The value has exploded recently, and if you're aware of the concept of a "bubble", then you'll realize gold is insanely bubbly - more than doubled in value in the past 4 years - and it puts the housing market to shame. I'm not aware of what non-speculative demand there is out there that might be impacting this, but you have to accept that such a hike is probably not indicative of a strong underlying shift in industrial, retail, or manufacturing demand for the element.

So, buying gold now is probably just as risky as playing the markets. And in a few months, assuming things have cooled down a bit, a lot of the money that's been put into gold, that has created this bubble, is going to crash right on out and back into paper as investors spot great deals from undervalued companies that managed to weather the storm and are in a sounder market finally, and the situation switches from "I don't know what's going on, I'm scared, must find safe harbor" to "business as usual, albeit much slower, lets make money, screw gold."

If you're thinking this won't be a depression, you're among most economists (outside of forum "economists" and the non-conomist RP), and betting on gold is probably the worst thing you can do, as you're likely to lose a lot of money at this point. You're too late to the game, you should have made that bet about three or four years ago. Being prescient like that can pay off really well, but now you have to ask yourself, "if I failed to see this coming like that, why am I so sure I can see what's coming next?"

I'm not the most optimistic, and I personally think this recession will be rough, long, and probably prone to volatility. There is a nasty debt situation right now, and I feel like the economy as a whole is sitting on a "thick bubble" (opposed to an easy-pop thin one) that is likely, some day, to start correcting itself, leading either to a slow-motion crash in the wake of a sudden economic downshift or a prolonged period of economic stagnation, possibly lasting a decade or more. This situation is centered around mortgages and housing, so it would make sense for it to happen now for a number of reasons.

My feelings are "the other shoe still needs to drop", but it won't be a 1929 sort of drop at all, especially not with all this extreme government interference at play. Maybe in other parts of the world, yes, especially with the increasing fuel prices (although with oil crashing that might not be so big an issue now), but in the West, and the US specifically, I don't see it happening.

There's always the chance we're headed to depressionland, but you have to be realistic in appraising the probabilities of that happening.

[DNK]

Finally, someone with logic, alot of people in this thread knocked dr.paul down, because they think they know what they are talking about.

When soldiers come pounding down our doors and taking us to fema camps, then we'll see if ron paul was right or not, but then it will be too late, we'll all be shipped off in plastic coffins.I came into political "maturity" about ten years ago. I've been hearing these claims echoed that entire time, and assume they've been echoing for a decade before that, if not longer back. So excuse me if I don't take them seriously, but they've yet to pan out. I'm certainly not overly positive about the any-term future, for varying reasons, but commenting that nay-sayers are illogical is not being honest, primarily to yourself.

And having the coffins is a rather humanistic approach to disaster management, compared to the cheaper alternatives. It's obviously not being done as window dressing, so I can only assume it's being done to respect the wishes of individuals that want proper earth burials in the case of a disaster.

But these sorts of things are the reason I don't live in a major city. No one is worried about FEMA coming into a rather calm suburb or small town, no one is even thinking of martial law in such places really. Maybe, instead of worrying about FEMA, we should be worrying about why martial law would be so easily pretexted by violent communal actions in many communities.

[The Prodigy]

DOW dropped more than 600+ points today.. Bush is gonna speak from white house tommorrow, i hope it isnt martial law time because i dont think im prepared for this shit yet.

[DNK]

Bush isn't going to announce martial law in the press conference. You need a pretext for martial law - complete economic collapse, riots, etc, the sorts of things that would actually require a militarized policing force on the streets. A moderate recession and a slowly collapsing stock market is not a pretext for martial law.

Perspective, it's a good thing.

[The Prodigy]

Ok thanx for clearing that up. So when the shit hits the fan it will be like a warning of the coming martial law. Thats kind of a relief.