Need *cough*girl*cough* help.

[finalhope]

Well, as the topic says, I need some help. There is a girl that I have some feelings for, and we are pretty good friends. (I'm, or was, pretty sure she was into me.) We talk a lot, usually every day. Now today, I suggested that "Maybe we could hang out tommorow." (Normally we just hang out in school.) I think she caught my drift, but what happened next was weird...

She broke off from her bad grammer and small sentances to full paragraphs:

"(23:23:25) Emily B: Kyle

(23:23:28) Emily B: I am very sorry

(23:23:31) Emily B: but,

(23:23:46) Emily B: I must go to bed...*hangs head*

(23:23:49) KyleJS: Wait!

(23:23:52) Emily B: ok

(23:24:18) KyleJS: I wanted to ask if you were doing anything tommorow. I have nothing, and am bummed! Do you want to hang out?

(23:25:17) Emily B: Hmmm.. idk we have church in the morning until like 12 and then idk what we are doing..I'd have to check with the rents

(23:25:47) KyleJS: All right, maybe we'll talk tommorow bout noon. See ya. :)

(23:26:46) Emily B: We prolly won't get home till later b/c thats like when church gets out and we'll prolly run some places before heading home, but yea I'll talk to you tomorrow afternoon.

(23:26:55) KyleJS: Nite

(23:27:45) Emily B: My parents really like to know about things like WAY ahead of time so they can have LOTS of time to make a decision about letting me go. They are horrible at making quick desicions

(23:28:16) KyleJS: It won't be anything huge...think, idk, bowling or below...

(23:30:56) Emily B: haha ok but still.. i can see it now.. "Emily, you should have thought of this earlier, how are you going to get there I don't want to drive you. Why with this guy Kyle? Who is he? Why do you want to go with him? We need to meet him. What exactly are you going to be doing? What times are these things going to be taking place? Don't get into any cars..." and so it would continue..they are sooo horribly protective its no where near funny

(23:31:34) KyleJS: Well, we'll see how it works out. If you don't want to go, or can't thats cool too.

(23:32:13) Emily B: I know that hanging out with your friends is supposed to be spontaneous and unplanned but they will not allow that kind of funness to take place.

(23:33:08) Emily B: its not that i dont want to go!!!!! don't think that!! its just i have a 6th sense about their answers to things.. and im pretty sure this one will be a no, but we'll see!

(23:33:35) KyleJS: Alright then, I'm gonna doze off too, good night Emily.

(23:33:46) Emily B: Guten Nacht!" (Guten Nacht = good night in German)



Now my amatuer physchology sensors are BLARING! I think this swing of attitude most likely means two things:

1. She's freaked out, and doesn't want to.

2. She does like me, but is nervous about it. (She has only been in America {Air Force} for a few months, and has mentioned that even though she has friends here, she is still a little shaky.)



So what the hell happened!? I just wanted to detour around my bias...AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Totaly freaking out now.



Paz.

[DaRkLoRd]

bah, gotta hate when parents are too strict..gag :-

welp..my suggestion give her hints you like her, flirt a little, see if you can go over to her house (with parents permission of course....damn strict people) and when her parents get adjusted to knowing/ seeing you...you can ask her out...or something... [sorry lost what i was gonna say...[goes back to bed :zzz:]]

good luck... keep postin' if you need more suggestions :-P

[Tsen]

Man, I HATE girl situations. I NEVER understand what's going on until some girl walks up and slaps me for being insensitive towards the feelings that she has for me. And I've never quite been able to figure out when a girl has feelings for me...Sorry I can't help, but just a note- Don't get into too serious of a relationship. If you just go and hang out and don't do anything serious, then the girl won't bug you if you decide to go hang out with another girl once in a while in a casual way. Keeps your options open...

[Chiron]

After reading that IM convo, it seems like she really has strict parents. It's hard when kids have strict parents, they just can't go out... There will be a time when that barrier is broken, so just be patient and keep busting your mac* And once you feel it's good to ask her again, go call her and say i'm going to take you out, just for a little bit.

[Kaniaz]

Take the girl hostage. You can now take her wherever you want, and even ask for money to give her back! It's like...getting paid for a date.

[Truthbearer]

You know...that is not the worst idea ever :P

Anyway, I truly don't know much about how you can resolve the situation(as I myself am in a similar one as well), but I wish you luck man...

[Turkeh]

Strict parents is what it sounds like to me, although I’m not sure how much of a big deal it is to hang out with a girl at your age. Incidentally if you’re really good friends with a girl you like it will just make it harder on you later :)

[Placebo]

Yeh - lets put it this way... you'll never be able to read between the lines of a woman's thoughts. Not in this life, or the next :D :D
So take it at face value until you have reason to doubt it... she has strict parents, IMO

[Xisdence]

Unless she is apprehensive to take a friendship she enjoys to the next level, it sounded like she was really reinforcing the idea her parents were strict. Give it a little bit more time, or maybe one day just let her know how you feel, sensibly and maturly. That way the friendship won't backflip ;)

[dougdrums]

you know it's bad when she starts speaking german.

[Alric]

People always joke about it how women always over analyze things, while men just say what they mean. In this case it seems like it might be the other way around. You think she means something else but all she said was she has strict parents.

If she doesn't end up going just plan out what you want to do next time so you can work around any problems her parents have.

[Naruto]

Hahahaha, good call Doug.

Well, I've actually had a similar experience in the past. In my case, her parents actually were very strict. I met them later on in our relationship and her dad gave me quite a talk. I remember " if you hurt my daughter in any way, I'll kill you."

What I suggest for one, talk openly about it. You never know if a relationship like that can develop or not unless you both agree on trying it. She also seemed pretty nervous. She's German I'm guessing, and has only been there for a few months as you said. So she values your friendship and possibly feels if you go into a more serious relationship and it doesnt work, she won't have anybody else?

If you don't want to make things awkward in the future ( or on the date or whatever), but you want to show her how you feel, touch her hair and say something like " Your hair is soft" while looking at her lips then her eyes, then her lips again. If she backs off, then its fine and not as awkward as it could get. But if she goes along, then you know to go in for the kiss. Works like a charm, My bro told me about it a few years back :P

[MSG]

Hrm... i know what youre trying to say. Everytime i try to get a girlfriend i wind up making friends. Ptooey. Its like she doesnt understand that you want a relationship but yet you give so many clues but she still views it as a friendship. Maybe if you know her for longer than you can develop a more strong friendship and itll probably evolve into a relationship, but remember: if the relationship doesnt work out then you will never have the same kinda friendship you had before. Over time i have learned it is best to have a friend that is a girl than a girlfriend... for now.

[DrumCorpsAlum]

I always end up in the friend zone, probably because I am too nice. I listen to their problems, give them complements, etc. I never actually muster up the cajones to ask girls out. I guess I could flirt more. Meanwhile, my roommate, the asshole (to girls that is) has no problem getting a date because he just can go up to a girl and ask them out, and he's rude to them too. I don't get it. I'm 22, a good looking guy, and I've never had a girlfriend. So my advice, don't do what I do.

[finalhope]

Thanks for the advice, guys! I plan on playing it off as casual, seeing as how I did hang out with friends all day instead. Doug, don't worry, we're both amatuer linguists and speak to eachother in Spanish, German, or me to her in Russian cause she doesn't speak it! Also, she isn't German, she is a military brat who lived in Germany for about 3-4 years. I think the casual route is good to put this back on track, and I'll shoot again at a later date.

[Amethyst Star]

You could try getting a group of friends together and invite her to go along with you guys. That way she can get to know you and if she wants to go out alone with you she'll have some evidence to present to her parents about how you're not such a bad guy. I'm a girl so I have a "little bit" more privleged information, but it sounds like she just has strict parents. She may be a little hesitant as well, but if you can do a group get-together maybe she'll feel more comfortable. Just my opinion.

Originally posted by finalhope
...we're both amatuer linguists and speak to eachother in Spanish, German, or me to her in Russian cause she doesn't speak it! .

You speak Russian, too? Zdorova!

-Amé

[DaRkLoRd]

Originally posted by DrumCorpsAlum
I always end up in the friend zone, probably because I am too nice. *I listen to their problems, give them complements, etc. *I never actually muster up the cajones to ask girls out. *I guess I could flirt more. *Meanwhile, my roommate, the asshole (to girls that is) has no problem getting a date because he just can go up to a girl and ask them out, and he's rude to them too. *I don't get it. *I'm 22, a good looking guy, and I've never had a girlfriend. *So my advice, don't do what I do.

ouch dude, i used to be that way, i flirted with girls, and when i found the one i really liked, i flirted with her she did the same, and i finally just got enough courage and asked her out ( i said f*ck it in my head, had nothin to lose but more to gain) and we've been going out for 6 months now :-). You just really need to relax when your around girls, have fun with it, flirt, be laid back, smile all the time, you'll get a girl trust me :-P (btw i'm 16) :-P

[Tsen]

...Come to think of it, kidnapping's a pretty good idea.
A very good idea.
Hm....I'll be back in a couple of weeks, I'm going to hijack a car and drive to Georgia to kidnap a friend there...

[pinkcheese]

This is about the funniest [ and sadest (sp?) ] thing I have ever seen. In my LIFE, LOL.

[Truthbearer]

Originally posted by DrumCorpsAlum
I always end up in the friend zone, probably because I am too nice. I listen to their problems, give them complements, etc. I never actually muster up the cajones to ask girls out. I guess I could flirt more. I don't get it. I'm 22, a good looking guy, and I've never had a girlfriend. So my advice, don't do what I do.
My case exactly...except I am 19. But if things go as I they are going then 22 won't be that far away...then 30...then 45...then 63...then I shall die alone...

I hate cliches, but it is true...nice guys do finish last. I just wouldn't have it any other way, though. I also seem to want to much...perhaps, and I also do think that it is not only girls that overthink things. I overthink things beyond belief. Every single thing...I hate it but I can't help it...

...Isn't life just brutaly delicious?

[Anonymous]

Truthbearer, you need to get yourself a girl! Maybe she'd keep you from your near-rant stages :roll:

-Amé

[dougdrums]

Originally posted by Naruto
If you don't want to make things awkward in the future ( or on the date or whatever), but you want to show her how you feel, touch her hair and say something like \" Your hair is soft\" while looking at her lips then her eyes, then her lips again. If she backs off, then its fine and not as awkward as it could get. But if she goes along, then you know to go in for the kiss. Works like a charm, My bro told me about it a few years back :P

You've tried it?

[wasup]

I was soooooo confused... I thought you were a girl until a minute after I read that... :D

[DrumCorpsAlum]

Originally posted by Truthbearer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Truthbearer)</div><!--QuoteBegin-DrumCorpsAlum
I always end up in the friend zone, probably because I am too nice. I listen to their problems, give them complements, etc. I never actually muster up the cajones to ask girls out. I guess I could flirt more. I don't get it. I'm 22, a good looking guy, and I've never had a girlfriend. So my advice, don't do what I do.
My case exactly...except I am 19. But if things go as I they are going then 22 won't be that far away...then 30...then 45...then 63...then I shall die alone...

I hate cliches, but it is true...nice guys do finish last. I just wouldn't have it any other way, though. I also seem to want to much...perhaps, and I also do think that it is not only girls that overthink things. I overthink things beyond belief. Every single thing...I hate it but I can't help it...

...Isn't life just brutaly delicious?[/b]

This is pretty good, and sums it up nicely.

It's from someone who wrote in to Collegehumor.com

"This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming."

[dougdrums]

BUT WHEN!!!

[Truthbearer]

Originally posted by dougdrums+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dougdrums)</div>BUT WHEN!!![/b]
If and when you become rich... :roll:

<!--QuoteBegin-Roguery
Truthbearer, you need to get yourself a girl! Maybe she'd keep you from your near-rant stages :roll:

-Amé
Well...let's just say that has something to do with the cause of my near-rant stages at times...it is a very long story. But yeah...that is the least of my problems now...or not...shit...I should go to sleep or something just so I stop talking/thinking crap/making up fictional characters named "The Hick"... :roll:

[sensi]

Truthbearer - you make me laugh. And as for "nice guys do finish last" this is not true. Nice guys rule.

Peace Sensi.

[pantalimon]

I always end up in the friend zone, probably because I am too nice.[/b] Look just don't there. That "Ode To The Nice Guys" is pretty accurate, but you could turn it around pretty easily Ode to nice women. (although it has to be said it fits certain guys far better).

From my own experience I'd say being young doesn't sit too well with guys, wait till you get over 25, you do notice a change, maybe your more confident with age, whatever, gets better after then. Also don't think that older women aren't checking you out, many of my female freinds are with much younger guys, mainly for a bit of a fling. However I know this 42 year woman old been with this 25 year old for 5years or more now, so he was 20 when they hooked up.

Nice guys don't have to totally ditch the N from nice but you can take a leaf out of stereotypical womans books, use inderference and restraint and short sessions of being charming and nice. Problem with the guys from the ode is they are there all the time spending vast amounts of time like a well worn pair of shoes. How can anything be intresting thats around you all the time, this well of dependability comes into its own with women later in life but 20's and early 30's isn't the time. Of course there exceptions to every rule ever written.

[Truthbearer]

The other day I woke up to the t.v and they were talking about 5 tips to make someone fall in love with you...I know, absolutely outrageous. I thought they were all very idiotic, except one that I found may have some sense to it. Basically what it said is that you should try and be around her as much as possible for a while, then just make yourself scarse for a couple of weeks. Then she is supposed to miss you and see how great you were and all. I think that may have some psychological truth to it, and it could indeed work in some way. I don't know, at least it seemed much smarter than the others. If I remember well, one was dilating your pupils and then staring at her a lot, then some other crap....didn't pay that much attention really...

[sensi]

Yeah what about “Nice Girls”?

I don’t want to have to be the type of person who has to "treat them mean to keep them keen' It would be nice if people didn't have to play games in order to find their partner. If a guy can not be attracted to me for everything I am then it’s a bummer. I don't want to have to create an illusion of what he wants. Illusions can never last and why would you not want to be yourself?

Also with the nice guy thing I think girls have to get sick of the F*** wits to truly realize what they want. This happens at different times for different women. I'm now 29 and when I do actually want a guy again I need him to be one of the nice ones. Guys who play games with women I feel are just not comfortable showing their true self, this is lame.

Peace Sensi. :)

[CT]

Originally posted by DrumCorpsAlum


\"This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.\"


http://forums.battleforeurope.com/ro/images/smiles/icon_salute.gif :| :(

[Amethyst Star]

Originally posted by Truthbearer
Basically what it said is that you should try and be around her as much as possible for a while, then just make yourself scarse for a couple of weeks. Then she is supposed to miss you and see how great you were and all. I think that may have some psychological truth to it, and it could indeed work in some way. I don't know, at least it seemed much smarter than the others.

Don't do it, man! Chances are the girl will think you're going out of your way to avoid her and then when you try to "come back" you'll find a cold wall known as the shoulder staring you in the face. At least that's how I'd perceive it.

-Amé

[pantalimon]

Being a nice guy sucks major time, but its almost impossible to break the cycle your just made that way I guess. Even if you do the obvious things like stop being the over the top confidant light in the ode etc I think its almost impossible to go the other way. Turn to the darkside luke 8) !

Here's a theroretic example, based on on-one, honest guv. Our nice guy and all round senstive type isn't really bothered in the whole meat market one night stands game and finds intermacy and connect a turn on, so its a matter of meeting new people via friends. Problem is in your 30's your meeting these women thinking she's nice and this could be very exciting and fun. Problem is you know this isn't the one or anything cause nice guys are cursed to know who those people might be very easily.

Your trying to force yourself to turn the dark side and go for it, but you can't put aside the knowing she's nothing long term and even thoughts like its the same for both sides don't cut the ice as your well aware through everything you know about the woman she's not wanting to be f***ed around etc. :(

Guy's if lieing, cheating and manipulation comes naturally I salute you, go forth and have a great time for the rest of us! :|

[Truthbearer]

Originally posted by sensi+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sensi)</div>Yeah what about “Nice Girls”? I don't want to have to create an illusion of what he wants. Illusions can never last and why would you not want to be yourself?

Guys who play games with women I feel are just not comfortable showing their true self, this is lame.

Peace Sensi. :)[/b]
That is precisely what it is. The whole concept of relationship is generally built on games and illusions, in my opinion. For someone that does not wish to participate in all of this, then they are the ones who get it tough...

<!--QuoteBegin-Amethyst Star
Don't do it, man! Chances are the girl will think you're going out of your way to avoid her and then when you try to \"come back\" you'll find a cold wall known as the shoulder staring you in the face. At least that's how I'd perceive it.

-Amé
Don't worry Ame, I am not looking to do this anytimes soon. I don't take tips to make people fall in love with you from shitty shows very seriously. I just thought there could be some sense to it, if you can play it to look like you are just busy and not trying to avoid her or something. At least she would be the one reaching rather than yourself, if indeed they care about you. But I am not looking to try this anyway...

Originally posted by pantalimon
Being a nice guy sucks major time, but its almost impossible to break the cycle your just made that way I guess. Even if you do the obvious things like stop being the over the top confidant light in the ode etc I think its almost impossible to go the other way. Turn to the darkside luke 8) !

Here's a theroretic example, based on on-one, honest guv. Our nice guy and all round senstive type isn't really bothered in the whole meat market one night stands game and finds intermacy and connect a turn on, so its a matter of meeting new people via friends. Problem is in your 30's your meeting these women thinking she's nice and this could be very exciting and fun. Problem is you know this isn't the one or anything cause nice guys are cursed to know who those people might be very easily.

Your trying to force yourself to turn the dark side and go for it, but you can't put aside the knowing she's nothing long term and even thoughts like its the same for both sides don't cut the ice as your well aware through everything you know about the woman she's not wanting to be f***ed around etc. :(

Guy's if lieing, cheating and manipulation comes naturally I salute you, go forth and have a great time for the rest of us! :|
I can tell you are a of us nice guys...just cause you are so right about it all. I couldn't do the one-night stand sort of thing...it just doesn't fit who I am or what I want...I guess it is indeed a curse...

[sensi]

Truthbearer, it is not a curse it is a true blessing, trust me. When we do find our loves it will be through love, truth and honor. What else could one ask for? To connect on all levels is worth the wait in my opinion!!!!! ;)

Peace Sensi.

[Truthbearer]

That is what I have always thought...but the question that has been coming up to mind as of late is whether it is worth the risk of not getting anything at all?

[sensi]

I know because I have experienced love on all levels with one man, it was worth the wait. Long, long, long story now we are just friends. Everything after him was good but never to the same degree. Now after experiencing it once I can not go back, I do not want to go back. I know both sides of the coin. I know which one I prefer. I’ve been single for 6 or so years dude just enjoy yourself. I hope you hold true to your desires because she will manifest, she has to, it is the way of the universe. When you are ready she will come. Trust in that and in the mean time just smile because she is on her way!!! ;)

Peace Sensi. :)

[Truthbearer]

Well, to be honest, this is another one of the matters in which I really do not have a choice. As much as I hate to admit it, I know what I will do, and indeed that is to wait for her to come, for I know that I just cannot change the way I feel about this, or the way I am. Frankly I don't think I would ever want to either. All I can do now is hope.

Hope. The quintessential human delusion. Simultaneously the source of our greatest strenght and weakness. And I shall cling on to with my life...literally

[lurker]

let me make this simple for you.

just ask her straight up if she wants to pipe down.

"senor plow no es macho solamente es un boracho..." -linda rondstadt on the simpsons.

don't let linda clown you like that, dawg.

:)

[sensi]

Truthbearer - Glad to hear, this gives me hope that there are more of us out there. Don't be heavy with these qualities. They are an inspiration to me. Be light hearted about it. You are the way you are for deep reasons. Embrace it don't let it drag you down. You will be rewarded with what it is you seek, I have no doubt.

Peace Sensi. :)