WILD from beginning of sleep - objective discussion

[Kromoh]

Hello everyone. So long since last time I posted on-topic :D

Iiiiiin any case, I'm here to talk about a potential variation of the WILD. This will probably be better discussed by people with experience on the topic, but everyone's invited to share their views.


In my noob times, I had the never-fading ideal of practising WILD from the beginning of sleep, even knowing some people don't even judge it possible. And now, after a few years of dealing with lucidity with cyclic interest and effort, I come to ask myself if WILD from the beginning of the night really is possible, and if so, to what extent.


I already know that entering sleep paralysis is fairly possible to do from the beginning of sleep, and have done it extensively before. In fact, I even have my own technique for it. It is not as effective as doing it with WBTB, and success varies a lot on what you do during the day, but I think it's only a matter of training.

The period before entering the dream is the problem I'd say. It is practically impossible not to go unconscious after some time, and even if you manage to find your way into a dream, it will still be very intangible, shallow or dim. Many times, all I experience is hallucinations before going unconscious.

My question goes to the experienced WILDers: have you ever done WILD from the beginning of sleep? Is it possible/practical at all? Is there a technique you recommend?

Finally, understand how I'm not talking about sleep cycle tweaking or REM rebound - my aim is to do this on a perfectly normal and routinely day.



On a parallel note, I'd like to highlight how I do not feel any more tired after a night of trying WILD (without WBTB), so the main point in this technique would be to make WILDs more accessible (most WILDers I know only do it on weekends).

[Tweek]

I've had one fuzzy WILD from the get go, it was interesting. I think I might look into it considering my friends told me I talk in my sleep when we went camping this week. My mom tells me and my brother does, I ALWAYS do apparently. So I'm pretty convinced that I don't go into sleep paralysis for whatever reason.

[BigFan]

Their is another thread similar to this somewhere on DV, forgot the section. Anyways, for your question, unless you have a REM rebound, I think WILDing before bed is kinda impossible. You'll enter a NREM period which if I'm not mistaken are thought-like dreaming, so, basically similar to daydreaming and I'm not so sure if you can become lucid during a NREM period especially since it's a thought-like dreaming :P I had an experience which I'll be posting in the lucid experience section which I think might have been a lucid dream in an NREM period :P

[hellohihello]

It is possible I have heard about one person completing it, and that one person no longer comes on.. I myself, only gotten to the imagery stage. I got pretty creeped out so I stopped.

[Kromoh]

You'll enter a NREM period which if I'm not mistaken are thought-like dreaming, so, basically similar to daydreaming and I'm not so sure if you can become lucid during a NREM period especially since it's a thought-like dreaming :P

I can confirm that :D It indeed is thought-like dreaming you go through. It's very hard to explain, though - once again, when it comes to LDing, you must have experienced things to know what they are.

Also, I wonder if chances are any higher with biphasic sleep? I've been sleeping biphasically for some time now, and have had lucids both at night and on the aftenoon. I'm yet to have a successful straight-to-bed WILD though. (nice term, by the way: STB, as opposed to WBTB)

[Robot_Butler]

I agree with you 100%, Kromoh. (And its great to see you in the on-topic forums, again :D)

My experience is similar to yours. I can enter paralysis, feel "the vibrations", sometimes even see some HI. From there, I get sort of stuck in a limbo state. I know I am not awake again, but I have not fully entered a dream. It seems like there is no dream to enter. I am definitely in a deep trance state, and my thoughts are not normal. I can stay in this state for hours until a dream takes over, or I can wake myself up or drop into unconsciousness.

In Tibetan Dream Yoga, this is very common. You learn to hold your consciousness throughout the entire night, through all stages of sleep. I believe we are staying lucid, and witnessing the different stages of sleep. (although I'm sure the very fact that we are lucid changes things a bit). My experiences and your description seem consistent with what I've read about REM dreams vs NREM dreams. I believe we are just WILDing into NREM dreams.

I'm curious to see if other peoples' experiences are similar to ours :)

[hellohihello]

I agree with you 100%, Kromoh. (And its great to see you in the on-topic forums, again :D)

My experience is similar to yours. I can enter paralysis, feel "the vibrations", sometimes even see some HI. From there, I get sort of stuck in a limbo state. I know I am not awake again, but I have not fully entered a dream. It seems like there is no dream to enter. I am definitely in a deep trance state, and my thoughts are not normal. I can stay in this state for hours until a dream takes over, or I can wake myself up or drop into unconsciousness.

In Tibetan Dream Yoga, this is very common. You learn to hold your consciousness throughout the entire night, through all stages of sleep. I believe we are staying lucid, and witnessing the different stages of sleep. (although I'm sure the very fact that we are lucid changes things a bit). My experiences and your description seem consistent with what I've read about REM dreams vs NREM dreams. I believe we are just WILDing into NREM dreams.

I'm curious to see if other peoples' experiences are similar to ours :)

I find that stage great for problem solving.

[BigFan]

I agree with you 100%, Kromoh. (And its great to see you in the on-topic forums, again :D)

My experience is similar to yours. I can enter paralysis, feel "the vibrations", sometimes even see some HI. From there, I get sort of stuck in a limbo state. I know I am not awake again, but I have not fully entered a dream. It seems like there is no dream to enter. I am definitely in a deep trance state, and my thoughts are not normal. I can stay in this state for hours until a dream takes over, or I can wake myself up or drop into unconsciousness.

In Tibetan Dream Yoga, this is very common. You learn to hold your consciousness throughout the entire night, through all stages of sleep. I believe we are staying lucid, and witnessing the different stages of sleep. (although I'm sure the very fact that we are lucid changes things a bit). My experiences and your description seem consistent with what I've read about REM dreams vs NREM dreams. I believe we are just WILDing into NREM dreams.

I'm curious to see if other peoples' experiences are similar to ours :)
hmm, you say WILDing into an NREM state? I've had an experience like that where I became lucid(?) in an NREM state. It's the only possibility that I could forsee. Here's the thread for more details: http://www.dreamviews.com/community/showthread.php?t=77244
I think if someone is tired and has a REM rebound, then they can WILD into a REM period, otherwise, you'll WILD into an NREM period and since those are thought like dreaming, not fully sure how that'll work or how my experience worked out. It was pretty odd :P

[marcc]

I have something to add to this :D

Once, I was falling asleep, with WILDing out, far away from my mind. Then, I got a glimpse of myself running across yellow awnings on the top floor of a 20-something story building, sun shining. I thought, Whoa! Why? It was my first WILD, it was only (maybe a lack of exaggeration even!) 2 minutes since I slipped under the covers, and it was pretty much my first LD in a while. It lasted less than half a second, but I was *psyched*! NREM probably, but very vivid, lifelike. I could feel the air brushing against my face.

Oh yeah, and this was minus the WBTB :D

[BigFan]

I have something to add to this :D

Once, I was falling asleep, with WILDing out, far away from my mind. Then, I got a glimpse of myself running across yellow awnings on the top floor of a 20-something story building, sun shining. I thought, Whoa! Why? It was my first WILD, it was only (maybe a lack of exaggeration even!) 2 minutes since I slipped under the covers, and it was pretty much my first LD in a while. It lasted less than half a second, but I was *psyched*! NREM probably, but very vivid, lifelike. I could feel the air brushing against my face.

Oh yeah, and this was minus the WBTB :D
Nice, according to research, some NREM dreams can be as vivid as REM dreams :) I would also be psyched if I had that :D

[marcc]

Haha, yeah.
If I might add, there were none of the normal WILD 'symptoms'. No SP, no imagery, no old hag, etc. Just out of the blue, a micro-dream.

[Kromoh]

I agree with you 100%, Kromoh. (And its great to see you in the on-topic forums, again :D)

My experience is similar to yours. I can enter paralysis, feel "the vibrations", sometimes even see some HI. From there, I get sort of stuck in a limbo state. I know I am not awake again, but I have not fully entered a dream. It seems like there is no dream to enter. I am definitely in a deep trance state, and my thoughts are not normal. I can stay in this state for hours until a dream takes over, or I can wake myself up or drop into unconsciousness.

In Tibetan Dream Yoga, this is very common. You learn to hold your consciousness throughout the entire night, through all stages of sleep. I believe we are staying lucid, and witnessing the different stages of sleep. (although I'm sure the very fact that we are lucid changes things a bit). My experiences and your description seem consistent with what I've read about REM dreams vs NREM dreams. I believe we are just WILDing into NREM dreams.

I'm curious to see if other peoples' experiences are similar to ours :)

:banana:

Well in any case, I can only say the experience rocks. It is so rewarding when it happens. It feels like being in a lucid, exactly like one; the feeling of warmth and self-love is just extreme. I can very easily see it as some sort of meditation, but a form of meditation that actually works (lol).

The sensation really is what you described: you know you are asleep, but there is no dream. It is like you were in the "dream machine", but the machine is not working at that moment - you can only gaze at eternal blackness, and think the sweetest thoughts you have ever.

--

I wanted to know if it is possible to incubate a dream from this point - that's why I've been looking for an experienced VILDer. I've tried several times, but as you said, after some time I either wake myself up unintentionally, or just go unconscious.

Also, I'm really interested in Dream Yoga, if you can provide any material. I wonder how much mystified knowledge yogis have.

[hellohihello]

Haha, yeah.
If I might add, there were none of the normal WILD 'symptoms'. No SP, no imagery, no old hag, etc. Just out of the blue, a micro-dream.
Dang you are lucky. I always get the old hag! Normally I don't mind but it snaps me out of my dream state.

I'll try it again tonight and see how it goes.

[Akono]

My question goes to the experienced WILDers: have you ever done WILD from the beginning of sleep? Is it possible/practical at all? Is there a technique you recommend?


I've WILDed at least once at the beginning of sleep, but I think it may be due to blind luck. I get SP a lot randomly, and that night was the night. The thing the dream, including the SP, lasted for about 3 minutes.

I'm not sure if it's it's practical or not because I still haven't gotten to the point where I can WILD at will. And my sleeping habits are really random. But good luck man.

[Maric]

Hey!

Been trying to WILD right from the start when I go to bed.
Farthest I got was being able to picture stuff and hear stuff in my head that was really realistic but there was one problem. I could see it in extreme detail and hear and touch but I couldn't do it at the same time.

Like its there but not there, really confusing to me :?.

Anyway my average state when I try is SP and HI sometimes (uncommon however).

[SubConscious]

get them chinese balls, and keep them moving in your hands when your falling asleep... it helps keep u kind of conscious i think... i wrote a thing about it... it was a weird experience.. that might be the name of the post..

[Yume.no.ato]

One of my only two WILDs were from the beginning of sleep.
I can't even explain why if its true that you'll enter NRem that way.
But, I had woken from sleep some... 5 hours before that. And, I spent a lot of that time talking excitedly with someone so I was definetely wide awake for those 5 hours. After that I tried sleeping for like an hour...I kept getting sleep paralysis for whatever reason, about 3 times and the third time I went into a WILD from an FA after an RC.

... So it is possible. D= Mind you, it only lasted all of ten minutes before I woke up. The most I got to go was try and climb through a mirror, which I failed to do.

[nyrawake]

I don't comment very often, usually cause im looking for information, not looking to share. But EVERY WILD i have ever had has been a straight-to-bed WILD. I've heard a lot of people say that these kinds of dreams are unstable or very short. In my experience they aren't at all. With the WILDs i have had they have always been completely formed dreams. One even lasted for about 20min. So when i see a post that says WILDing STB is impossible I think this person is just repeating what they heard rather then actually trying it out for themselves.

[Tarsier]

what's up with your sig kromoh?

[Kromoh]

I don't comment very often, usually cause im looking for information, not looking to share. But EVERY WILD i have ever had has been a straight-to-bed WILD. I've heard a lot of people say that these kinds of dreams are unstable or very short. In my experience they aren't at all. With the WILDs i have had they have always been completely formed dreams. One even lasted for about 20min. So when i see a post that says WILDing STB is impossible I think this person is just repeating what they heard rather then actually trying it out for themselves.

Hah, thanks a lot for coming up with that. I certainly haven't dedicated any sufficiently to WILDing, because this is a tough year and I've been studying for admission in university. But I don't doubt that I can go further , with practice. If I make any success, I surely will post.

what's up with your sig kromoh?

Hawt, isn't it?

[Tarsier]

not really. kind of disgusts me actually =p