Morality question...

[WerBurN]

ok...this is a question only for those that believe that dream worlds are not simply a fabrication of their own mind...but rather something more having to do with alternate universes/existence etc. ...if you have a gf in real life, or a repeating gf in dreams you have, that deosnt really exist, would it be morally wrong to also have another gf in the dreamworld or in real life respectively? ...i hope this makes sense... :D

[Lucius]

In *MY* eyes (but who am I) that is indeed morally wrong. Not only do I believe in two actual (and equal) realities, I also believing in absolute loyalty to your lover. Doesnt matter if that lover is over here or over there..dont cheat, over here or over there. All the same in my eyes.

You state "" that deosnt really exist" , makes me question if you do believe in another plane of existance? Oh if you materialize or summon a girl then she probally doesnt really exist, but then, if you are truely believe in another reality I think you can see what people(better said spirits) over there are real and who are not..or rather,feel.

[Seeker]

Even if you do not experience another reality, here is something to think about...

Before you had lucid dreams, you had no control and were therefore innocent of your actions.

Learning to LD is like eating the apple, you are no longer innocent. You have to ask yourself, "Can I live with myself doing things in a dream that I wouldn't do when awake?"

I am not trying limiting you, but remember, your mind is your mind whether awake, having a lucid dream, or inhabiting another reality.

You have to decide what is right for you :)

From my personal experiences, I choose to conduct myself in a civilized manner when I am not awake. :)

[nerve]

Hm...let's let a woman say something.

I have a boyfriend. I would not like him having another girlfriend in ANY reality.

[GestaltAlteration]

going against what I said in the dream ethics thred since I've currently discoverd these alternate universes I think that your spirit is there and your body is its recall point so in other words. Watch what you do there before you get yourself in deep shit. (who knows what could happen if you anger "them")

[Ev]

Originally posted by Seeker
Even if you do not experience another reality, here is something to think about...

Before you had lucid dreams, you had no control and were therefore innocent of your actions.

From my personal experiences, I choose to conduct myself in a civilized manner when I am not awake. :)

Hmm, but this images are created by YOUR mind. Nobody have planted this images into your mind (forget the matrix :lol: ). So it must be your personality acting. Or at least some part of your personality.

[Ginko]

Originally posted by Seeker
Even if you do not experience another reality, here is something to think about...

Before you had lucid dreams, you had no control and were therefore innocent of your actions.

Learning to LD is like eating the apple, you are no longer innocent. You have to ask yourself, \"Can I live with myself doing things in a dream that I wouldn't do when awake?\"

I am not trying limiting you, but remember, your mind is your mind whether awake, having a lucid dream, or inhabiting another reality.

You have to decide what is right for you :)

From my personal experiences, I choose to conduct myself in a civilized manner when I am not awake. :)

Don't forget i forgot about you.
Will meet again ;)

As for your problem EVE. I feel the same way as every 1 else does. I mean it kinda like being cheated on, by some 1 thats made up. Plus, HOW WOULD YOUR DREAM CHARECTER FEEL ABOUT IT.


The only way i could see justifying this action, is if you confonted bother girls about this.

I'm 100% seriouse.

As lame as it seems, maybe if they both agree.

More power to ya

[Ev]

Originally posted by Seeker
Even if you do not experience

As for your problem EVE. I feel the same way as every 1 else does. I mean it kinda like being cheated on, by some 1 thats made up. Plus, HOW WOULD YOUR DREAM CHARECTER FEEL ABOUT IT.

More power to ya

hmm, the meaning evades me. - is it about cheating on your girlfriend/boyfriend in you dreams?
Or about someone "playing yourself" in your dreams and making you think it's you acting?

[Ev]

Originally posted by GestaltAlteration
going against what I said in the dream ethics thred since I've currently discoverd these alternate universes I think that your spirit is there and your body is its recall point so in other words. Watch what you do there before you get yourself in deep shit. (who knows what could happen if you anger \"them\")

So true, the problem is that you dont know what is wrong. You can think

of a "normal" human morals, but they may not be applicable. there can

be much worse sins and they look innocent.

I'll provide an example, but it's not from the LD. It's from my recent drug

experience. I was tripping and had some closed eyes visuals. But they

were hazy and I decided to create imagery by myself (like in a LD).

So i decided to visualize a rocket which will take me to other realms

(remember, i was tripping hard)... So i started with a foundation. I

imagined engines and started moving up... But something started to

disassemble my rocket! I wondered what is it, and i saw/felt 2 small

entities/beings. They were just erasing my creation...

After they finished, they telepatically explained to me, that i invaded

their realm and started to create my rocket from them (from their bodies/

energy).

I felt like... Whoa!!! It cant be true.... yet it was. this 2 little energy things

spent some time showing me how to create stuff "peacefully", without

agressively disturbing their habitat/themselves.

It was just an example of "non-human" moral values/laws....

[Ev]

what I'm trying to say is - by breaking "human" rules you can feel guilty

for yourself, yet you dont know anything about the rules of the world you

are visiting...

But dont expect that all universes will have the same rules...

[Ginko]

AND I QOUTE

Don't forget i forgot about you.
Will meet again ;)

As for your problem EVE. I feel the same way as every 1 else does. I mean it kinda like being cheated on, by some 1 thats made up. Plus, HOW WOULD YOUR DREAM CHARECTER FEEL ABOUT IT.


The only way i could see justifying this action, is if you confonted bother girls about this.

I'm 100% seriouse.

As lame as it seems, maybe if they both agree.

More power to ya

[Lucius]

Human morals..spirit morals..

Who the hell wants to be cheated on?

I know the laws over there are quite diffirent then they are over here, but whatever the laws I would not even WANT TO cheat on the given person(spirit or human). If you want more then 1 lover then apearently you dont love him/her enough and/or your not satisfied, thus you should break up anyway because
1- Your lover isnt good enough for you
2- You do not talk about the problems, instead you cheat on him/her
3- Your relationship is (in your eyes) "boring"
4- You think the sex is shit, but sex with somebody you love is never shit,its a mental orgasm when you really love somebody

And people in so called "free relationships" who can have sex with whoever they want, they are fools to. Apearently their partner isnt good enough for them aswell.

So what im trying to say is, regardless of what reality, what dimension, what matter of person(spirit or human)...

DONT CHEAT, ITS SHOWS HOW EXTREMELY STUPID YOU ARE.

Thats my little opinion

[nerve]

I like that opinion...

[adroid28]

I agree! Real love makes you feel complete, if you dont its not real love.

[Dino]

I've been cheaten reacently...HELL...HURTS !!! I forgave her. (no SEX she says)
I've cheated once...kissed a girl when I had a girlfriend (I was 15)
Now...
I believe in true love and I hate cheating...
One thing noone likes about me...I don't believe in God...
I am going off topic...

Control your self in a dream...
Think about this...You get so drunk and end up sleeping on the street...
You wake up...you feal something is wierd...your think you'r entering Lucid dream...You think nothing is real and you are in control...Imagine you start doing all crazy things you'r mind can imagine...then you realize your dream check was wrong...It is real !
LUCID DREAMING IS ALL ABOUT CONTROL !!!
DO WHAT YOU DO IN THE REAL WORLD !!!

[Kaniaz]

I wouldn't want any girlfriend of mine to be having an affair with a 'dream' boyfriend. I mean, that would be like going out with yourself, because the "boyfriend" is created by your mind, and is controlled by yourself...

...And it would just be, well, weird.

[nightowl]

....and kinda desperate. It kinda give the other person the thought "What?! Am I not good enough for you"

[Ev]

Originally posted by Kaniaz
I wouldn't want any girlfriend of mine to be having an affair with a 'dream' boyfriend. I mean, that would be like going out with yourself, because the \"boyfriend\" is created by your mind, and is controlled by yourself...

...And it would just be, well, weird.

Are you sure the dream characters are controlled by yourself? I mean

they behave totally normal and you cant control them, exept for psychic

abilities like read mind/feel emotions and telepathy

[Dino]

My girlfriend is just here and she can't LD...
In her dreams there is a lot cheating...she says that I am mostly the one who cheats, but sometimes she is the one...
I wish she culd stop dreaming that shit...

[WerBurN]

wow...didnt really expect this topic to get this much attention...i was jus wondering what yer guys' viewpoints are...i always browse these forums at ungodly hours so im often not quite all there when i think these things...but its funny, cause in my LD i can always manage to change whoever i would be cheating with to whoever it is i would have just been cheating on...but thats only if i notice im dreaming...the problem is i dont control me until i realize its a dream, one of my dream signs is that i often find myself doing terrible things i would never do while awake, then i realize, hey, i'd never shoot that guy IRL...i must be dreaming! i was jus wondering cause i often cheat before i realize im dreaming and am able to change whats going on...my GF said shes fine with this tho, which is wierd O.o

[Kaniaz]

Originally posted by Ev+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ev)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Kaniaz
I wouldn't want any girlfriend of mine to be having an affair with a 'dream' boyfriend. I mean, that would be like going out with yourself, because the \"boyfriend\" is created by your mind, and is controlled by yourself...

...And it would just be, well, weird.

Are you sure the dream characters are controlled by yourself? I mean

they behave totally normal and you cant control them, exept for psychic

abilities like read mind/feel emotions and telepathy[/b]

I'm not sure how to explain this. I mean, your entire dream is controlled by your mind, even if you aren't aware of it when in the dream. And so are the dream characters, they are created by your mind, and controlled by it...I think. They might act like another being, but they don't have their own brain, and aren't capable of thinking for themselves. Your mind kind of subconciously controls these dream characters.

[Lucius]

Mabey...or mabey not :wink: well you know what I think, and I refuse to explain over and over and over again what I think about the dream world and its inhabitants..^_^ lets all just belief whatever we want

[nerve]

Originally posted by Kaniaz+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kaniaz)</div>Originally posted by Ev@
<!--QuoteBegin-Kaniaz
I wouldn't want any girlfriend of mine to be having an affair with a 'dream' boyfriend. I mean, that would be like going out with yourself, because the \"boyfriend\" is created by your mind, and is controlled by yourself...

...And it would just be, well, weird.

Are you sure the dream characters are controlled by yourself? I mean

they behave totally normal and you cant control them, exept for psychic

abilities like read mind/feel emotions and telepathy

I'm not sure how to explain this. I mean, your entire dream is controlled by your mind, even if you aren't aware of it when in the dream. And so are the dream characters, they are created by your mind, and controlled by it...I think. They might act like another being, but they don't have their own brain, and aren't capable of thinking for themselves. Your mind kind of subconciously controls these dream characters.[/b]

...makes me think of my story..The Mare...this girl gets SO good at lucid dreaming, she's like...a lucid god. she creates a mansion and lives there when she dreams. she also creates these 5 characters..3 anthros and 2 humans. I do have a prose written, it was actually a RP so half was written by a friend of mine. in the prose called Sorrow, his character who is also a lucid dreamer, meets Mistress. it gets really interesting...

[Serinanth]

But what if your mind creates those characters so fully that they become self aware...

You can ask a person in your dream if you are dreaming, most of the time they will say no of course not, because they themselves are real.
If I ask somone in this reality the same question I will get the same answer.

You can debate in both worlds, but you can never fully know if it is true or if that person is just programmed to say that.

There are the rarer occasions where you find people that agree, this happens in both worlds as well.

Yes, we are dreaming.

[Berserk Exodus]

A dream is your down-time and evaluation of the world. Enjoy it.

[Serinanth]

For some yes =)
Others no

[ShadowNightWing]

I believe its really hard to tell for me that is. Wether is all just a frabrication of your mind or some other plane. Anyway I do believe that at all cost you should conduct yourself in a civilized manner and respect the dream or plane.


Moral ways within the plane= Respecting that plane.
Moral ways within the dream= Respecting Oneself.

[Lucius]

For those who experience that other plane..we know, its something you cannot prove or explain..its just something..well your just KNOW. It just gets to certain levels and..well some things are rather personal but there are certain things out there that prove to me that the astral is a stand alone reality, but that doesnt mean your mind doesnt influence it..the astral projects your mind an your personality.

But of course there are always outside forces that one doesnt control or even influence.

[Kaniaz]

its something you cannot prove or explain[/b]

No kidding.

[Blissful]

Well, with all this talk about cheating and such, I have to agree with Lucius, if you cheat something is wrong but I also believe that if two people decide that they love each other and leave their relationship open, then who are we to judge whether they have true love? Everybody is different. Me personally.. hha haaa, no one believes me when I say this.. I am told that I'm beautiful, I work out, and get asked out a lot and have met guys that confessed later that I scare the crap out of them and therefore they would never ask me out (fear of getting hurt). People who don't know me ASSUME I'm married or with boyfriend but I've been single for 6 years (dated a few inbetween but realized how EMPTY the experience is) and have abstained from sex until I meet not just my soul mate but my TWIN FLAME.

Ya.. let that marinate folks. Twin Flame!! If you don't know you better ask somebody. I believe it's the only true form of COMPLETE LOVE. Apparently, when you are with your Twin Flame you are complete and the issue of cheating.. well, it doesn't exist. PERIOD.

Wish me luck. I'm still searching.... (who knows, maybe all the ld and oobe will aid in my search).

[Lucius]

Twin flames..gues I call just call em twin souls but yes..

"who knows, maybe all the ld and oobe will aid in my search"

Possible..it did for me. ^_^

[Serinanth]

Twin flame.

One that is about as close in resonance to your own spirit as is possible?

[A Lost Soul]

Originally posted by Serinanth
Twin flame.

One that is about as close in resonance to your own spirit as is possible?
Is this even possible? I mean, sure we can all find someone who is closely akin to our souls, even someone who's life path is parallel to our own. The path can get a bit lonely, I admit... But true loves and twin flames and soulmates? Do they really exist or are they the last remaining horror of Pandora's Box, like hope, there purely to drive us to insanity?

Serinanth, do the people in your dreams actually tell you that you're not dreaming when you ask? Whenever I ask, I always get weird looks. Like I sprouted another arm or something. The only people who have ever said "Yes, you're dreaming" have been those who claim to also be dreamers. And even that is interesting. Am I just creating them in my own mind, perhaps because I desire someone to relate to--and who can relate to me? Or are they truly dreamers, like me, exploring what that world has to offer. We shared a dream. I'm still not sure exactly why, but we did. So, even if no one else on this forum believes it's possible, you and I do because we have experienced it. Along that line of thought, it's quite possible that there are others out there who can walk the Dreaming in complete awareness, searching for other dreamers.

[Seeker]

Lost Soul, I was skeptical at first, but now am a believer.
Also, I am actively working on this with others. Nothing as close and personal as with you and Seri though.
Maybe just a handshake and a hug and an exchange of information so that we can verify the experience back on the forum.

:( Been at it for over a month now without success :(

[Lucius]

True love..soul mates..twin flames.. yes they do exist I think..but im weird ^_^ LS you want me to pm you about this matter? You mind find it interesting if I tell you the entire story that makes me belief in the concept and how..its a long story but, care to know?

just tell me if you would, and I tell you my story.. ^_^ and if you dont..then I wont i gues lol

EDIT: ill just pm

[Sesquipedalian Dreams]

This question is hard on many different levels wow.

[Serinanth]

Is that even possible?

come on look who your asking that =)

I think it is possible, highly unlikely? Yes most definatly

Because we both know that it is possible to be in the same place at the same time in the dream world I think that it is possible for others to do the same. Also those that have finaly shed the physical existance, they stay in the dream world on a long term basis, so perhaps they just call themselves dreamers because that is what they were and it makes it easy for us to relate to them.

When I tell people I am dreaming
For the most part no, they all argue with me just as you people here do =P But there are the few that say yeah WE are dreaming, and there is something different about them, i cant place it but I think you know what i mean.

In that class I taught a while back, I faded for a moment into the waking and then fell right back where I was, the class seemed confused, then I realised what was happening, I was Dreaming, but this place these people they were all real, They seemed to understand I think, a few were wondering how I was teaching and I was just a dreamer,


That is the one think that I lack, Stability, I have a very hard time trying to stay in the dream world when I want to. But then at other times, I cannot escape it...

Seri=confuzzled

[Blissful]

Originally posted by A Lost Soul+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(A Lost Soul)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Serinanth
Twin flame.

One that is about as close in resonance to your own spirit as is possible?
Is this even possible? I mean, sure we can all find someone who is closely akin to our souls, even someone who's life path is parallel to our own. The path can get a bit lonely, I admit... But true loves and twin flames and soulmates? Do they really exist or are they the last remaining horror of Pandora's Box, like hope, there purely to drive us to insanity?
[/b]

Here's a website where you can get more info about Twin Flames. Basically, chances of getting a twin flame (the other part of you that was split in half) are very very slim. The purpose of them coming together is to serve a purpose...TOGETHER.. I truly believe that if two people on are the same path spiritually, and you are in your last life and will "self actualize" before you die, then chances are, if you work really hard on manifesting it, you will find your twin flame. You have to be ready.. and so does your "other half". Most will end up with soul mates (which is essentially, a person who has the same karma to work out as you do).

Makes sense.. go to the website for more info: http://star.goddess.tripod.com/twinflame2.html

Also, if you just type in "twin flame" in a search engine, you can find tons of info on the world wide web!

Blissful

[A Lost Soul]

Thanks for that info. I'm going to remain skeptical about the whole love and soulmate thing until I see solid proof--which would be me experiencing my own soulmate/true love. I thought I found him, but I guess I was wrong. Now I just figure that it's such a waste of energy to pine over someone who probably doesn't exist. *shrug* Anyway, Seeker, I admire your dedication and effort for trying to contact other dreamers in the Dreaming. You don't have to have the same sort of... err... experience that Serinanth and I had. :oops: Like I said before... I just figured "Hey, it's a dream. When will I ever get this chance again?" And... um... the rest, apparently, is dream history... Ok... Well... My point is that you don't have to have a close spiritual bond with someone to share a dream with them. It helps, I'm sure, but it isn't a requirement. Keep us posted on your experiences, ok? :)

[Seeker]

Originally posted by A Lost Soul
Keep us posted on your experiences, ok? :)

OK, but as of now, batting a big fat ZERO.
Thought I had one last night. I posted it in Lucid Experiences, but alas, No-go.

Luckily I have friends here like you to encourage me and to give advice and pointers. But hey, I figure I've got another 40 years or so to try!

[Blissful]

Originally posted by Serinanth
Is that even possible?

come on look who your asking that =) *

I think it is possible, highly unlikely? Yes most definatly *


That is the one think that I lack, Stability, I have a very hard time trying to stay in the dream world when I want to. But then at other times, I cannot escape it... *

Seri=confuzzled"

Seri,

It IS very possible to meet your twin flame in the awake word and yes it IS highly unlikely as well. It's like winning a multi-million dollar lottery. But, I'm searching because my clues are strong. :fro:

And the fact that you seem to loose control in either dreaming case (wanting to stay in and can't, wanting to get out and can't) is my first REAL understanding of why everyone here says "be careful" but until now, no one really said EXACTLY why. This loss of control can be dangerous. I don't want this problem. I'd rather fight a demon (cause it's easy to stand up to a bad boogie man in a dream) than to be stuck or having a sense of yearning for more (cause this stuff can be very addictive).

Am I making sense here?

Blissful

[Seeker]

Blissful,

You are coming in loud and clear! I understand. :)

I believe I have found my twin in this world. It's really uncanny!
I can understand the yearning and heartache of finding your twin flame in another reality and fellig like you had to do all in your power to be with him/her.

[Blissful]

Originally posted by Seeker
Blissful, *

You are coming in loud and clear! *I understand. :)

I believe I have found my twin in this world. *It's really uncanny!
I can understand the yearning and heartache of finding your twin flame in another reality and fellig like you had to do all in your power to be with him/her.

How about finding your twin flame in the physical world? I am under the impression, due to the nature of the spiritual world, that finding a twin flame there may be easy. I'm talking about a twin flame here in the physical. Just think, if you found your true "twin flame" then you can save all your adventures in the "spiritual" world for other things (like helping others poor lost souls here in the physical world) rather than going there to feel complete.

Blissful

[Lucius]

It doesnt really matter, you can go vice versa aswell..you can help people over here in the pshysical aswell..helping other trough the astral is extremely hard, at least those who are not astral beings.

Also it combines..

[Seeker]

Originally posted by Blissful
if you found your true \"twin flame\" then you can save all your adventures in the \"spiritual\" world for other things (like helping others poor lost souls here in the physical world)

That is what I entend to do. I help here in this realm, and with the help of friends(*all you great people here*), am on the path to helping others in my dream world(and also learning quite a bit about myself in the process YAAAAY!! :D )

[Serinanth]

Troo dat seeker trooo dat!

Yes blissfull you are 100% right, I would rather fight a balrog then to be stuck somewhere... But in time, you learn to live, and that becomes the reality, like Ive said elsewhere if you dont, and you fight it and keep wondering if its real or if its a dream you go bonkers.

Now is real, no matter where you are, because "YOU" are there is what makes it real.