Is it against the law to share your multimedia with friends? [Archive]

Crucible

12-10-2004, 02:12 PM

Now I mean by inviting them over to watch a movie you bought or listen to a CD. You could even have them come over to play a computer game with you. Now what if you want share something that you payed for but have them be at their own house? Is it suddenly against the law because it is in another house? What If I just built a giant 500 by 500 mile house. Would it then be illegal to share songs between rooms? People create this music and these movies knowing they will be pirated. It does not come to them as a suprise. Isn't it also legal to lend someone a DVD or VHS or a movie? You could do the same with a music CD you payed for. So why can't you do this online? Instead of being on a tape or dvd it is on a hard drive.

It is actually quite funny. The only reason this can happen is because of this digital revolution. Before this pirating would literally be stealing. I mean people would be taking a product away from someone that they cannot infinitely reproduce as we can today. As for software pirating, that will go away in time. Eventually all products will require a constant online connection to work. (steam for one...) You could probably say the same about any other type of media.

Now lets slightly change topic. How about those movies and songs that are made? Look at movies for a moment. How much to actors get payed? Lets not forget all those overpayed people who sit at desks pretending to work. The (top) actors are getting millions of dollars a movie. The executives are getting up to millions of dollars a year for hardly any work. I have a better idea to fix piracy. Lets stop over paying all of these people. I bet if they did this they could sell their products for 60% less and still make the same profit. Do these people really diserve millions of dollars for a years worth of work? If anyone diserves that kind of money it is refuge workers and janitors. Their work is by far harder.

Like many people I still buy games and movies. If it was not for this 1% of the population owning 98% of the wealth I don't think things like this would be a problem. So now does this make piracy okay? I guess it depends on who it is being taken from. The problem with this is that the people that are really affected by this are the crew and other workers that don't make the bulk of it. I would love to just say anyone making over X dollar amount needs to be killed, but then that would not be fair, would it? They are after all killing people every day. Think about all those poor who die of starvation and other similar means. I mean if you suddenly won millions of dollars or got into a job paying you a lot you would not do this. I would not either. I guess what I would really love to see if a government enforced maximim wage. There is a minimum one, why not a max one? You could even have it be something like 100k a year. That is plenty enough for anyone. That is also what I believe to be the most anyone diserves. It is just, the way things are going, things will only get worse. Karl marx saw this coming. Something will have to change.

bradybaker

12-10-2004, 07:39 PM

You're whole post can be summed up in one statement, "It's ok to steal from rich people." Yeah sounds good to me, hell why stop at piracy? Let's all just go break into their houses and take all of their valuables, they can afford it right?

As for the capping income, what are you? Some kind of communist? The reason that you are sitting in a warm house typing on a nice computer is because capitalism works. If you're so worried about the starving children of Africa why don't you get off your ass and do something?

If you're going to argue copyright laws, I suggest you learn them first.

Joseph_Stalin

12-10-2004, 08:24 PM

*big smile appears on face*

If you ask me, capitalism does not work. In fact, this is why we have piracy. If we shared everything among everyone, everybody would be happy. And don't go off with all that nonsense about "no work-iniative or motivation, no competition to make better products, etc., etc.". The system does not work.

Doctors, Lawyers, Garbage Men, Police Officers, Teachers...we are all equal. Education means nothing. Every job is as important as another. The only reason we think it's unfair is the lousy human condition of being spoiled and thinking everything must work for them. Wrong. People should work for each other. Money itself promotes violence and social decay. If people knew they depended on each other, without being sensitized by television and their own mental "global map" of how the world is graphed and how things work, they would realize things could be better. Don't kill comrade Bob because he's the local doctor, and don't kill comrade Joe because he's the janitor. Social injust could be eliminated if we could destroy the image that is being burned into people's minds of how things should be fair, and that people should be paid more here, etc, etc.

If you had the chance to mold a fresh generation into these ideals, they would turn out to become perfect embodiments of the ideals. Constantly preach that all are equal, that the strong and the weak (physical or mental) are the same, and they will start to believe it. The problem today is with the people of last generations continuing the culture of past generations, of capitalism and their societies.

bradybaker

12-10-2004, 11:22 PM

I know it sucks for you to admit. But communism doesn't work man. Human nature doesn't allow it to work. It is the perfect system in theory but cannot be applied to humanity. It's been tried as we all know.

Rakkantekimusouka

12-11-2004, 09:27 AM

Hey, I use Shareaza. Knowledge -- and multimedia -- belongs to the world. The RIAA are a bunch of greedy, effed-up bastards. Anyone ever seen the South Park episode Christian Rock Hard (http://www.spscriptorium.com/Season7/E709script.htm)? Seriously...like anyone really suffers.

I stand by the educated-guess that for everyone that has a good net connection and downloads music and videos, there's at least ten other people who aren't as fortunate to have such technology, and go and buy the CDs and stuff for their discmans.

Don't try to convince me otherwise, trust me, you'll be wasting your energy.

bradybaker

12-11-2004, 10:08 AM

Hey don't get me wrong, I download like a mofo. But at least I admit that it's wrong.

Joseph_Stalin

12-11-2004, 12:05 PM

Which brings us to a future thread in this forum section--people who learn the world through sitcoms and cartoons...

Without exaggeration, I have met too many people like that :shakehead2:

On topic though, I must have at least 80 gigs worth of downloads in movies and games, but I think the factor that makes people believe in that this is right, is because the digital information is not real in the sense that the average person takes it for. In terms of the conscience, people think that only stealing physical objects is wrong, because, in the internet, you are simply copying a file, and not taking a "one of a kind" object from someone. To them, the owner still has it, it still exists.

Crucible

12-11-2004, 07:54 PM

If you think it is so wrong then why do you do it? Obviously you have some way to rationalize what you are doing to make it right. How is this... I don't think it is wrong and I could really care fucking less what you have to say about it because you are, to put it simply, wrong!

bradybaker

12-11-2004, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by Crucible+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crucible)</div>If you think it is so wrong then why do you do it? Obviously you have some way to rationalize what you are doing to make it right. How is this...[/b]

We as humans do many things that we know are wrong. It's human nature. We slack off when we know we should work hard, we may take a candy bar from 7/11, we may cheat on our taxes or cheat on our spouse. We know it's wrong, we do it anyway (I'm not saying I personally partake in this behaviour, but it's obvious that many people do). Ignoring the conscience is not a difficult thing to do, especially when we have something to gain from it.

<!--QuoteBegin-Crucible
I don't think it is wrong and I could really care fucking less what you have to say about it because you are, to put it simply, wrong!

I guess that's one way to rationalize it, get angry and make a statement with absolutely no thought to back it up. Good job.

Crucible

12-12-2004, 12:49 PM

I am just sick of having to back up everything. Anyways, I had a bad day that day. I seriously thought I was going to kill myself so I figured it would not matter. Anyways, I am better today. I just look at this world differently than most people. I don't see like as being important. I see our actions as whatever we want them to be.

bradybaker

12-12-2004, 06:53 PM

Just because you see the world differently doesn't make your actions right.

Joseph_Stalin

12-12-2004, 08:04 PM

Nor do they make them wrong.

(that's the "ah...ha.." moment ;) heh, I am really tired...)

bradybaker

12-12-2004, 09:23 PM

Well that's material for a whole different thread. I meant in the eyes of law.

Umbrasquall

12-12-2004, 10:34 PM

The law could say slavery is good.

Just adding to the back and forth 1-line arguments lol.

EDIT: So much for extended discussion. :roll: I don't feel like commenting on the original topic but I suggest getting back to it. (Yes I'm a total hypocrite, sue me :)).

EDIT2_#%@#3: Okay I spelt orginal wrong.

EDIT3#$(=+$4: Damn it I spelt it wrong in the EDIT. BTW this is actually the 4th... or is it 5th edit cause I orginally didn't want to... and came back... I... Jebus I'm tired.

EDITONCEAGAINSOBS: OMFG I spelt originally wrong AGAIN.

EDIT: Oh shi... I just realized 'spelt' isn't a word.

EDITPROMISETHISISTHELASTONE: Added color to make it pretty. :D I'm going crazy...

bradybaker

12-12-2004, 11:02 PM

But it doesn't.

Ok, someone get this back on topic.

Rakkantekimusouka

12-13-2004, 08:44 AM

Like I said, knowledge -- and multimedia, which is a kind of knowledge -- belongs to the world, every person. The RIAA should know this!

dream-scape

12-13-2004, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by Crucible
Isn't it also legal to lend someone a DVD or VHS or a movie? *You could do the same with a music CD you payed for. *So why can't you do this online?

The type of "sharing" online you are talking about, you are not lending anything to anyone. Keeping with your analogy, what you are doing is making them a copy of the DVD or CD and giving them the copy, while keeping the DVD or CD that you paid for.

There is a type of "sharing" online though that fits with the example you gave above though. iTunes is the perfect example of this. If you are on a network (like in a campus dorm or something), you can view other people's playlists if they choose to share them. You can listen to their music all you want, but you cannot download it. I.E, no illegal copy is being made.

bmx-life™

12-25-2004, 01:07 AM

ok my 2 cents:
The rate in which humans share information is geting faster all the time just look at how fast things have gotten over the past 30yrs in a technological form, I mean its only natural that it will happen. The only thing in the way of this evolution is ethics an morales. Somewhere down the line its going to get closer to everyone being conected on the same level.

Ok did that get ya thinking.

Kaniaz

12-27-2004, 05:51 PM

Is it against the law to invite your friends over to listen to music, or to let them watch a movie, etc? No, of course not. There's no point in even bothering to make a law because you'd have alot of trouble enforcing it anyway, without being like "Big Brother" in 1984 (all-seeing).

I guess it is a grey area, this argument. On one hand you've got people that believe sharing multimedia via p2p programs isn't (shouldn't) be illegal, and it's quite fine to do so. Then you have the people that expect you to pay for it.

Let me list up all the pros and cons of file sharing, then the pros and cons of buying the actual thing itself.

File Sharing

Pros
[list]It's really quick to do. You can click a button, wait a few minutes and bam, the latest song is on your computer for you to listen to at your hearts desire.
You can't get it damaged or lost. If you delete it, just re-download it.
It's free.[list]

Cons
[list]It is quite obviously illegal.
You deprive people of the money which, quite frankly, they worked for and deserve. Singing isn't an easy job, even though must people hate to admit it (no, you are not the next Elvis Presley). Programming is also very hard, in the sense of games.[list]

Buying It

Pros
[list]You support the guys that made it. They get to put food on the table.
It's nice to just have a physical thing you can look at, and display in collections, etc.
You get techicnal support, etc.
No dodgy crack-warez type stuff.
Legal.[list]

Cons
[list]It takes longer than file sharing to do in some cases. You could just click and download, or take a 30 minute drive to the store and back to get it.
You can lose it or damage it.
It costs money.[list]

The main factors which help file sharing become such a large, common thing to do nowadays are convience and cost. Face it, some games and music songs and movies *are* ovepriced and overvalued, and aren't worth what you pay for. You could say that when they get greedy like this, downloading the stuff is making them get what they deserve. But you forgot - nobody was forcing you to buy it in the first place, were they?

File sharing is basically the same thing as walking into, say, Brittney Spears room where she's just spent alot of work making a new single and she's quite proud of it really, and you nabbing a copy under her nose and running off. It's stealing - face it, you are simply taking what you didn't pay for. There's no other way around that. You are a thief. Just because you do it from the comfort of your own room in a chair by clicking that "Download" button dosen't make it any different from stealing it under their nose. They worked, they should get paid.

Sure, maybe singing and programming and movie-making people shouldn't have $30 million or god knows what else, but once again, nobody asked you to buy it. They just made a good song, because people bought it. So let them get what they deserve to earn.

I suppose none of us here are famous worldwide musicians, with millions of fans, but I know if I was one, I'd be extremely upset with all the people that file shared. You can say "yeah, yeah, they lost their precious millions!", but so what. They just happen to be in an business which is currently earning *alot* of money. Stop being jealous and actually buy the stuff.

Notwithstanding, I am a music-downloading-whore anyway. Writing this has made me feel quite guilty, but if I was to see myself going in a store and stealing a CD every time I downloaded a song, I'd probably stop. That is all I'm doing at the end of the day...

And I suppose the last, faint factor is popularity. There are a couple of places I know where filesharing "makes u the cool.".

Yep. Whatever. Go use iTunes to overcome the convinence factor.

Crucible

12-29-2004, 08:57 PM

I wouldn't buy the crap anyways. Before I knew about filesharing I watched everything on TV. I never listened to music... How am I stealing something I would not buy anyways. It is not like I am stealing a hard copy of something. I still buy many games, and that is all I ever have bought and it is all I ever will buy except for a select few movies. This has never changed, and filesharing made it no different. When I download something how am I stealing it if I would not buy it anyways? If anything I am slowing other people's downloads down thus saving them money. I have never once bought a single CD and I have only bought a few movies. Even years after filesharing became widely available I did not download music because I did not want to. I eventually decided to download it because it was free. I never would have bought the music. Oh, and one last little thing about music. It is not hard for most of these people to sing because all they are selling is their image. Spears and other artists similar to her don't even sing. They just say words and have their voices altered so much to the point where it is not even them singing it anymore. Do you really think I care if I am stealing from these people who are overpayed? Those people and others like them are the reasons people are dying in other countries because they are so poor. The rich live off of the poor. Personally, I think garbage people should get payed more than these so called artists.

dream-scape

12-29-2004, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by Crucible
When I download something how am I stealing it if I would not buy it anyways?

I don't have any plans to buy a house for some time, so I guess then you won't mind if I take yours, since by your logic that wouldn't be stealing because I have no plans to buy one. Great! I'll be moving in tomorrow, and I expect you to be the hell out!

Alric

12-29-2004, 10:39 PM

The fact is your stealing. It doesn't matter if you wouldn't buy it anyway. You can try and argue they are not losing any money, and you may be right, but the fact is you are gaining something which you didn't pay for, which is stealing.

Rakkantekimusouka

12-30-2004, 09:31 AM

Filesharing is like religion -- filesharers are to people who believe filesharing is wrong as religious people are to atheists (or is it vice-versa?). Likewise, it's a very controversial topic, and money and morals are inevitably involved.

Alric

12-31-2004, 01:09 AM

By the way some people really do think its wrong but they are to lazy or cheap to buy it so they do it anyway. Its like jaywalking. Sure you know you shouldn't do and theres a chance that you might get ran over, and if a cop happens to drive by you will get a ticket, but the next crossing walk is 5 blocks down which is out of your way!

Joseph_Stalin

12-31-2004, 02:29 PM

Here's the plan. If you download something and like it, go out and buy two CDs. And if you don't, buy one. Now that's industry logical. :wink:

daydreaming

06-05-2005, 06:41 PM

i don't think it would be illegal

Gwendolyn

06-06-2005, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Rakkantekimusouka
Like I said, knowledge -- and multimedia, which is a kind of knowledge -- belongs to the world, every person. The RIAA should know this!

This is so true. Knowledge should be free. Lets face it, only the "One hit wonders" get hurt by downloads......Bands that have cult followings, or are really good bands don't have problems with their sales of music and merchandise. Guess what? If a movie is a good movie, a lot of people who've seen it by downloading it, will go see it at the cinema. If a book is good, and someone downloads it, a lot of times they will also go and buy the hard copy. Same for games.I know this from experience. The RIAA is trying to tell us what to listnen to by restricting us. What about the bands whose music is no longer sold/printed/in the production circuit? They'll eventually be forgotten, eroded away along with the sands of time. The sharing of it keeps it in the multimedia stream. But, on the other hand, if you want to keep it legal (and inexpensive) go to http://allofmp3.com/ and pay a few cents per song. It's pretty easy, and woth it. It even has a lot of the most obscure music.

bradybaker

06-06-2005, 11:43 PM

A friend of mine is the lead singer of the metal band Dreamtheater. Perhaps some of you have heard of them? They have a very strong cult following and are not a "one-hit wonder".

Illegal downloading personally cost him over $300,000 last year alone.

You might say, "oh, well what's 300 grand to a rock star?". It's the same as 300 grand is to you.

He isn't a crazy celebrity driving around in Ferraris and buying homes in several countries. He's a pretty regular guy with a nice house in a small town and a Ford Explorer. And he's down $300,000.

Illegal downloading is stealing. There's no way around it.

A Lost Soul

06-07-2005, 12:29 AM

Nice topic.

I’m a pirate. I admit it. I download music like it’s crack. I’ll buy an album if I feel that the musician has proven that they deserve my hard-earned money. I can’t afford to buy an album for one good song and eleven shitty songs. I download single songs to enjoy (or in the ‘old days’ I’d record a cool song as it played on the radio—it’s the same idea). I’m not redistributing this music. I’m not robbing anyone and I’m certainly not depriving anyone of their third mansion in the Bahamas. Some artists have earned my respect and my money, others haven’t.

For example, I will always purchase new material by Nine Inch Nails or Tori Amos because I enjoy their work and I feel that they’ve earned my money. I don’t even have to hear a thing off of their new albums because I know that they won’t let me down. I will not, however, buy a damned thing from Metallica anymore or Madonna (I hate her anyway) because they are so vehemently opposed to my previewing their material before I decide to make a purchase. (Aside from that, Lars was extremely rude to a friend of mine who met them backstage... but that's another issue altogether). I’m sorry, but if your album has one song that doesn't suck, I’m not buying it. I'll download the song and that's that. CDs are too expensive nowadays, especially when you’re a starving artist pinching pennies.

Aside from all of that, I think it’s also good publicity for new bands. I can think of a few bands local to New England (Godsmack being a major one) that have gotten recognition because of p2p programs. Hell, I paid to see Godsmack in a bar before anyone outside of New England knew who they were. It was a great show, too, and they are very friendly guys. Word of mouth and filesharing have boosted a lot of bands' popularity.

Also worth noting: I pirate a lot of songs that will probably never see the light of day here in the States. I love L’Arc en Ciel, but I have yet to find one of their albums here. It’s a lot of trouble and money to ship something from Japan to the US, and even then I run the risk of it not working properly in my media players. Thus, I download (although when I head on over to Europe, you bet I’ll be looking for their CDs).

Anyway, that’s my two cents on piracy.

Oh, to answer the question in the subject line: I could be wrong, but I think it's only illegal in America. Don't quote me on that though because, like I said, it could be wrong.

Kula

06-07-2005, 06:24 AM

Over the years i've downloaded over 200 songs from kazzaa. However, i only downloaded single songs (not entire albums) that would be expensive if i wanted to buy all the singles. Now that i've got a job, and i can afford to buy them, i've re-downloaded all my songs form Tiscali (a pay site).

Kazzaa actually helped me find obscure European bands like Flying Steps and Music Instructor. After downloading Bomfunk Mc's second album, i liked it so much that i bought a copy from eBay.

The same goes for my sister. She's a big fan of Japanese bands like Dir en Grey, Malice Mizer and L'arc en Ciel. She can download songs and purchase the ones she really llikes, because it would be inconvenient to import a cd, only to find that she doesn't like it.

So basically i felt guilty about downloading songs illegally and now pay for them.
Sometimes my legal downloads don't work, so i can use limewire to download it again.

So P2P programs aren't all that bad. :)

Merck

06-07-2005, 07:58 AM

I can't speak for all of the contributors to this thread but it seems to me that all this is really simply another facade, and class warfare is the real issue. People who don't have lots of money always find it so easy to compare how much they spend a year with the salary of affluent people. Its almost as if people want to penalize the rich for their higher level of success. When are people going to realize that THIS is wrong. Just because someone else has more money than you doesn't give you the right to steal from them (though America's progressive tax system may show otherwise). And about the comment having to do with the rich living off the poor, that's the most absurd comment I have ever seen. Here's a little fact to think about: The top 5% of income earners in the United States, pay 53.25% of ALL federal income taxes. I guess it would be interesting to see how things would be if all the evil rich people weren't around. Wealth distribution is wrong. Anyway, I'm finished with the tangent.

bradybaker

06-07-2005, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by A Lost Soul+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(A Lost Soul)</div>I’m not redistributing this music. I’m not robbing anyone and I’m certainly not depriving anyone of their third mansion in the Bahamas. Some artists have earned my respect and my money, others haven’t.[/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-I
A friend of mine is the lead singer of the metal band Dreamtheater. Perhaps some of you have heard of them? They have a very strong cult following and are not a \"one-hit wonder\".

Illegal downloading personally cost him over $300,000 last year alone.

You might say, \"oh, well what's 300 grand to a rock star?\". It's the same as 300 grand is to you.

He isn't a crazy celebrity driving around in Ferraris and buying homes in several countries. He's a pretty regular guy with a nice house in a small town and a Ford Explorer. And he's down $300,000.

A Lost Soul

06-07-2005, 12:04 PM

... and?

You seemed to missed a lot of what I said. I'm not robbing your friend (hell, I don't even like their songs enough to download), nor am I robbing anyone else. If anything, if I bought an album for one song and found out that the rest of the album sucked--THEY have robbed ME.

It's business, and I am going to continue to download singles and buy albums as I see fit to spend my hard-earned (and very sparse) money.

Kula: I friggin love L'Arc en Ciel! And you can't find their music here in the States. I also like Dir en Grey, Maaya Sakamoto, and HIM (another European band). I've noticed that we're starting to get HIM's stuff over here more and more.

For those of you pirate nazis, I'll have you know that I own one HIM album and a t-shirt so far. ^_^ They're becoming more and more popular in the US and I'm working on getting the rest of the albums, although that probably won't happen until I'm actually in Europe. (Luci and I are also going to try and catch a show). Judge me as you will, but I'll repeat what I said before: some bands have earned my money and others have not.

Daeraug

06-07-2005, 12:25 PM

Hey Brady,

just a sec *FLAME ON* :mad:

Much better, first of all when you go an quote someone don't pick out the one tid bit that makes your point stand out. It is called halve truths. Bad form. Very bad form.

Second of all not all pirates are bad. I download MP3s to see if I like a song or band, then O go out and buy the CD or whatever. Honestly, the labels are the ones that make money off the CDs. The bands makes thier money on tour. I am not condoning piracy, as in download an album and not buy the CD. Did you notice quite a few bands encourage downloads and even provide them. Hell, bands have been discovered that way. There was a small badn named The Greatful Dead, maybe you heard of them. They encourage bootlegs of their albums because they wanted their music to be listened to and circulated.

Honestly, I never heard of Dreamtheater, maybe I can tune in an AM station and here them or something. But I am sorry to hear your supposed friend is down 300 grand. Breaks my heart really. I wish I could worry about that much, honestly, he does provide a puplic service. I wish getting shot and having my back fractured would pay that much, but I get by on the poverty level pay.

Also, final point, no one every bitched about recording off the radio. Honestly, it is just a new form. Take it or leave it. It isn't going away, and it does help many artists. So download and if you like it, go buy the album and support your bands. If it sucks, those CDs make awesome coasters for my beer when I watch hockey.

Besides, usually the music I download isn't even availible in this country, same goes for LS. I know she downloaded some music from NiN, but she also bought the friggin' Uber version of the CD as soon as it was availible.

Finally, case in point. Downloading music is not illegal. It is illegal distribute it to others. :evil:

*flame off*

:happyme: And have a nice day. :wink:

Yume

06-07-2005, 09:16 PM

Even though Brady went a little out of line I do not agree with pirating music. You may not like a whole album and only a few of the songs, but downloading it free off of the internet still cheats people of the money that they wanted for their product. I will not judge anyone, but people lose money because of it no matter what you say.

There are bands who want thier music out there, but a majority of bands do not. Those bands created the original product. They want the money which they are supposed to get. For someone to gain something they must give something of equal value. Law of Equivalent Exchange. Pirating music does not fufill that law. You may not think that they deserve the money, but if you want to fufill the law you must give them what they ask for.

A band that I like called Gob has been very angry because people do not buy their CD's anymore. They have now refused to come up with anymore music until they get more money. They even announced they were coming out with a new CD. That went down the drain because many people felt like downloading their songs. Why I have to pay for what the people who downloaded did I don't know.

The bands that don't give consent to let people download their songs for free are being stolen from no matter how you look at it. I wouldn't be mad about the money as much as the fact that people felt like stealing the music from me. It's mine and I want to get what I deserve for making the product.

You can continue to pirate and not care about people who made the product being angry at you, but you are not keeping the Law of Equivalent Exchange. They want something for their product and if you want it you need to give them what they want. It's a basic concept.

I want to point out that I am not attacking songs that are bought off the internet with consent, but downloading without consent in case you haven't already figured that out.

I am not saying that pirates are bad people, but they are making many artists unhappy.

A Lost Soul

06-07-2005, 10:09 PM

Touka koukan, eh hon? LOL Does that mean someone besides me is geeky enough to quote Fullmetal Alchemist! *tease* ^_^

I totally understand where you’re coming from, but I reiterate: I do not download entire albums! I download singles and, like I said, if I like what I hear then I’ll buy the album. It’s the same idea as listening to the radio or watching MTV. Also, like I said before, if I buy an album and it sucks asshole, I feel that I am the one who has been robbed.

Not that I need to defend myself here, but If one were to take a look at my mp3 playlist, they would see a bunch of songs from albums I already own (i.e. a ton of Nine Inch Nails), and even more songs by bands that are virtually unknown in the US (or obscure video game music). Believe me, if I like a band, I support them and buy their CDs, concert tickets, and various other items. If I don’t like a band, I don’t give them anything. It’s that simple. Someone else who enjoys their work can spend the money for their entire CD. It’s all a matter of opinion and personal taste.

Also, I think everyone is getting mixed up with the levels of piracy. What hurts the wallets of the band (more accurately, the wallets of the record labels) is when people download entire albums and don’t buy the disc, don’t attend shows, and don’t buy band paraphernalia.

I AM NOT ONE OF THESE PEOPLE.

Is that clear?

And I’m glad you don’t think I’m bad. My family line goes all the way back to the Vikings and they were the best pirates ever. :mrgreen:

Yume

06-07-2005, 10:28 PM

I know where you are coming from and I see it, but in the end I side with the band. I just see that if people aren't given consent by the owner to have it they shouldn't have it. I am more angry at those who download games and computer programs more. People shouldn't get Photoshop for free. They need to pay the real $100.

I really don't care what you do, but in the end I see the owner of the product is entitled to whatever he or she wants for his or her product.

I practice "Touka Koukan" as much as I can these days. It's hard to find others that do when you have human nature running around unwatched. My geekiness goes down deep levels. Most of the concepts I believe in have come from watching endless hours of Anime and reading many Mangas and see how to apply the storyline to create a better belief system that would benifit the human race. When you watch a movie or read a book you can see the answers to many problems today. People like watching the problems get fixed, but are too lazy to do anything about the same thing on their own. Now before I go off topic I love Anime. :P

Gwendolyn

06-07-2005, 10:30 PM

If a musician is only a musician for the money, he's in the wrong damn buisness. This goes for writers, artists, or any person who produces entertainment......As a writer, I'd rather have people Download my stuff than not read it at all....

bradybaker

06-07-2005, 11:13 PM

Ok, time to get down to brass tax here ladies and gents.

I download music, I download movies, I download programs.

I download singles, I download entire albums.

I distribute music, I distribute movies, I distribute programs.

In fact, just today I downloaded 1 movie, the new Oasis album and the new System Of A Down album.

But one thing I don't do is try to pretend like I'm innocent. I steal the creative works of others, I admit that I steal the creative works of others and I'm ok with that. I don't lay a whole bunch of flimsy rationalizations on the table and try to justify my errant ways with it.

Like it or not, when you click the download button in Kazaa, you are breaking the law. There is no way around it. If you were brought to trial, you would be found guilty. The judge wouldn't care about any of your bullshit logic.

Let's not tip toe around the issue here folks. You're all damn theives. Accept it.

That being said, my current policy is: If I like a band enough to download their entire album, I buy it. I follow this policy most of the time.

For example, I also purchased the new White Stripes and Gorillaz albums today.

Originally posted by Daeraug
But I am sorry to hear your supposed friend is down 300 grand. Breaks my heart really. I wish I could worry about that much, honestly, he does provide a puplic service.
Fuck off. I am many things, but I am not a liar.

And for the record, all I did with that quote was reiterate a counterpoint that I had brought up earlier in the thread. So just chill out.

A Lost Soul

06-08-2005, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by Gwendolyn
If a musician is only a musician for the money, he's in the wrong damn buisness. This goes for writers, artists, or any person who produces entertainment......As a writer, I'd rather have people Download my stuff than not read it at all....
I have to agree with this. I have no problem with people downloading my work to enjoy. (Claiming my work as their own and redistributing it as such is another topic altogether.)

Also, I think it’s an American thing, too… I mean, what if ‘they’ catch me downloading music when I’m living in the Netherlands? Am I going to be deported and thrown into an American jail? Will I be exiled from the US for enjoying someone’s music? I doubt it.

I never said I was totally innocent, only that downloading music for free is not illegal. Do a search sometime and see what you come up with. There are many, many free legit and legal sites that have a variety of songs available for download, along with album and artist information, should one so desire to make a purchase.

Brady, why do you so enjoy picking fights? :lol: I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree because I don’t believe that at all.

Merck

06-08-2005, 06:20 AM

As far as trading files over the internet that consist of copyrighted music, movies, or software, its illegal in the United States. There isn't anything to debate. As far as whether the individual thinks its right or wrong, well that's up to them. Either way they are breaking the law. I have never paid for songs to download but since the peer-2-peer programs have been pretty shitty as of late maybe I'll look for a decently priced pay site.

Rakkantekimusouka

06-08-2005, 09:31 AM

Kula

06-08-2005, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by Yume
People shouldn't get Photoshop for free. They need to pay the real $100.

$100 (£55) for Photoshop? It costs £500 ($915) in the UK! If you could show me a copy of Photoshop for £55, i'd gladly buy it.
I'll admit that i have a pirate copy of PS. I use it sometimes to colour my sketches, but the fact is, i don't want to pay £500 for it.

A Lost Soul

06-08-2005, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Yume+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Yume)</div>They need to pay the real $100.[/b]
<!--QuoteBegin-Kula

$100 (£55) for Photoshop? *It costs £500 ($915) in the UK! * If you could show me a copy of Photoshop for £55, i'd gladly buy it. * *
I'll admit that i have a pirate copy of PS. *I use it sometimes to colour my sketches, but the fact is, i don't want to pay £500 for it.
Yeah, where can you get Photoshop for 100 US bucks?! Not anywhere in the US, that’s for sure. A friend who admires my work had a company copy and burned it to a CD for me because the goddamn program is 900 US dollars and he knew that I couldn’t afford it. If it hadn’t have been for him, I’m not sure where my art would be right now.

So… that’s all I’m going to say about that.

YARR!

Daeraug

06-08-2005, 12:05 PM

:chill:
:aphiusiscrazy: :muffin: :banana: :cheers: :dancingcow: :yumdumdoodledum:

Yume

06-08-2005, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by A Lost Soul

Yeah, where can you get Photoshop for 100 US bucks?! Not anywhere in the US, that’s for sure. A friend who admires my work had a company copy and burned it to a CD for me because the goddamn program is 900 US dollars and he knew that I couldn’t afford it. If it hadn’t have been for him, I’m not sure where my art would be right now. *

So… that’s all I’m going to say about that. *

YARR!
Ahh. You have 7.0.

I have 6.0 which I got for $100 new at Amazon. I would be pretty annoyed if 900 dollars were taken out of my paycheck. People take these programs too much for advantage.

Gwendolyn

06-08-2005, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by bradybaker
Ok, time to get down to brass tax here ladies and gents.

I download music, I download movies, I download programs.

I download singles, I download entire albums.

I distribute music, I distribute movies, I distribute programs.

In fact, just today I downloaded 1 movie, the new Oasis album and the new System Of A Down album.

But one thing I don't do is try to pretend like I'm innocent. I steal the creative works of others, I admit that I steal the creative works of others and I'm ok with that. I don't lay a whole bunch of flimsy rationalizations on the table and try to justify my errant ways with it.

Like it or not, when you click the download button in Kazaa, you are breaking the law. There is no way around it. If you were brought to trial, you would be found guilty. The judge wouldn't care about any of your bullshit logic.

Let's not tip toe around the issue here folks. You're all damn theives. Accept it.

That being said, my current policy is: If I like a band enough to download their entire album, I buy it. I follow this policy most of the time.

Oh, I know it's against the law.....I never tried to pretend it wasn't much like yourself. And also, I follow the same policy of buying a lot of works from the industry I've stolen from. But, I still disagree with the law. I know that it doesn't matter weather I agree with it or not...But I still think that it's wrong to restrict information.....I'm not even referring to music (although I do think it should be included in the info. category), but books, software, etc. That's one thing I love about Linux and Free BSD OS's.
Anyway, as far as music goes, why don't the people who produce music just sell their music over the net without having a record company manage their albums? Like, give samples of he music on the net, and sell copies of the albums for a reasonable price by DL? The musician would get a lot more money, and a lot more good bands would be avalible to society. Just a thought...

syzygy

06-09-2005, 02:56 AM

Most bands don't even make money from record sales, it all comes from tours and merchandise. First they have to pay back the loan, which often never happens, and then after that they get about $1/record. Big record companies need to be brought down, they are ripping off the musicians and the fans.

Gwendolyn

06-09-2005, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by syzygy
Most bands don't even make money from record sales, it all comes from tours and merchandise. First they have to pay back the loan, which often never happens, and then after that they get about $1/record. Big record companies need to be brought down, they are ripping off the musicians and the fans.

Couldn't have stated it better myself. We need to get rid of the Record Companies....

spoon

06-09-2005, 09:57 PM

I skimmed the whole thing, sorry if this is already posted:

[also edited to add] i see i just repeated what the last 2 people said. sigh[/]

I personally have about 80gig of music. 2 years ago I didnt know what jazz or funk was. Now I have about 50gig of that music in those categories. Sure it's illegal, but I'm not taking anyones money - I wouldnt have ever bought them without filesharing. I do buy some (very few) CDs, the same I did before filesharing. Only now I know a hell of a lot better artists to spend my money on.

Good things can come of (illegally) downloading music. As I said, you get more of a taste for the music you truly like (and are more willing to buy). You recommend bands to people who might buy CDs. You definately go see more gigs than you would have otherwise. You don't have to listen to the radio anymore :D.

The one part of this whole pirating fiasco that really pisses me off is the record companies. Just becasue a new medium of distribution has come along and invalidated their profession we have to put up with all this bullshit. Fine, they don't like filesharing. Then why don't they put their billions of dollars to use creating an ifrastructure where musicians can upload their own music and recieve direct payment (minus a modest fee) when a song is downloaded. Why don't they? Because they stand to make less money.

I know the above scenario can work, both because I'm a programmer and can see the simplicity (thats a relative word :D) of extending the current p2p framework to accomodate this. And well..... because it already does work (http://www.mindawn.com/).

Since the thread has been one long rant, im sure you didn't mind one more
-spoon

[edited to add]brady, cool friend. very jealous

Rakkantekimusouka

06-11-2005, 12:50 AM

Well, I don't try and "act like I'm innocent" -- I don't give a damn. Like I said:
Originally posted by Rakkantekimusouka+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rakkantekimusouka)</div>...knowledge -- and multimedia, which is a kind of knowledge -- belongs to the world, every person.[/b]
and also
Originally posted by Rakkantekimusouka+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rakkantekimusouka)</div>Filesharing is like religion -- filesharers are to people who believe filesharing is wrong as religious people are to atheists (or is it vice-versa?). Likewise, it's a very controversial topic, and money and morals are inevitably involved.[/b]

To reiterate another emphasized, good point:
<!--QuoteBegin-A Lost Soul@
<!--QuoteBegin-Gwendolyn
If a musician is only a musician for the money, he's in the wrong damn buisness. This goes for writers, artists, or any person who produces entertainment......As a writer, I'd rather have people Download my stuff than not read it at all....I have to agree with this. I have no problem with people downloading my work to enjoy.

Fine, I won't download the music of lesser-known bands to whom three-hundred thousand dollars is on par with three hundred dollars of my own money. Frankly, I'm an ideal Socialist. Given the opportunity to live in a true Marxist Communist society with about ten other people on an island somewhere, you bet I'm there. Money means little or nothing to me. I make sure I don't forget that it's what the money is getting me that is important, not the bills and coins themselves. So three-hundred thousand dollars probably means more to them than it does me. But I digress...

RIAA lawsuits are BS. The RIAA is BS, frankly.

If I'm a thief, then so be it. So was Robin Hood, if you want to split hairs. (And don't give me "Yeah, well, Robin Hood took money from the rich barons and gave it to the poor people, you're circumventing money going to blah blah blah..." I didn't mean it as an exact analogy, OK? Just a casual observation.)

OK, rant over...for now.

Gargen

06-11-2005, 10:38 PM

technically it is illegal its basically kazaa but with a group of friends but if you just let someone burn a few cds it will be illegal but no one will care

Rakkantekimusouka

06-11-2005, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by Gargen
but no one will care
Or in the present tense: no one cares. That's the bottom line.

skwerlfish

07-07-2005, 09:42 PM

In my opinion, piracy can't really be stopped. No matter how hard organizations like the RIAA try, it just won't happen. I heard on the news a while ago that the Grokster network and some other one were shut down, which will probably happen to more P2P networks. Even if P2P networks like this get shut down, there are always about a hundred others.
Also, P2P doesn't always have to mean illegal. There is plenty of non-copywrited content on these servers. For example, anti-piracy organizations want to shut down bit-torrent, and I have never seen an illegal torrent in all the time I've used the program. Also, I have used LimeWire to download open-source software and trial versions because of the massive traffic some sites get.
As for downloading games, if companies want to avoid warez/p2p sharing, then they should just release their game for a console, like xbox or ps2.
As for software, most of it isn't really worth what you have to pay, and you don't even have to pirate it most of the time. For example, I know someone who got the full version of Adobe Photoshop for free straight off of the adobe website. Also, many programs use the serial number activication, where all you have to do is use google and get the software.
Also, most of the songs I have downloaded, I already own. I just download them so I can put them in a playlist and not have to listen to the other crappy songs in the albums.
By the way, don't download P2P programs unless you really know what your doing, because most will trash your computer, and don't get cracked versions of steam, because most have really annoying spyware/trojans.

P.S-i'm sleepy so my words might not make sence.
PP.SS.-i am not responsible for people that illegally mod their xbox or get limewire and get caught just because they read about it in my post.
PPP.SSS..-communism isn't good
PPPP.SSSS.-microsoft used warez while making windows media player codecs
PPPPP.SSSSS.-can someone tell me how your really supposed to add more P.S's?