This topic is for Christians only! (Jesus is my savior, etc.

[Abstraction]

I'm being VERY serious here... Don't use this topic to express your religious views or whatever. This is a Christian asking other Christian only what they think. By that I mean the kind that have had their lives changed by becoming a Christian.... those that live the life.... not walk the walk only.

Anyway... my fellow bros and sisses in Christ,

I'm wondering what you all think about this. I noticed there is a lot of "new age" influence with this spirit seeker stuff and all that... Seems like something Wiccas and cults would really be interested in.... and while I'm highly intrigued by lucid dreaming, I just want to be very careful.

Also, I'm looking to be adopted by a strong Christian who has a good grasp of how to LD in a couple weeks.

Thank you.

[bradybaker]

Welcome to DV!

As a very strong Christian, I believe that lucid dreaming is evil and if this activity is intentionally continued, you will burn in hell for all eternity...in hell.

[Abstraction]

Originally posted by bradybaker
Welcome to DV!

As a very strong Christian, I believe that lucid dreaming is evil and if this activity is intentionally continued, you will burn in hell for all eternity...in hell.

Wow! Thanks for taking my topic seriously and respecting my clearcut request!

[/sarcasm]

[bradybaker]

Not the answer you were looking for?

[Rakkantekimusouka]

Jeez, bradybaker, you may be an atheist, but don't be an AH. This was just rude. I apologize on his behalf, Abstraction.

^^;

[hysteria]

I'm a born again christian and I believe there is nothing wrong with it. long as you don't use them for evil what harm could it be? I mean...do you daydream? sure you do, everyone does. it's just like daydreaming only much, much more vivid.

[dream-scape]

I nearly fell on the floor laughing when I saw the title of this, before I even opened it... not about it being a Christian only topic, which the idea of in itself seems very un-Christian...

But when I saw the part, "Jesus is my savior, etc." I just couldn't help but laugh... Jesus is my savior, etc....

Image someone trying to gather a group of people saying "c'mon christians only... Jesus is my savior, etc..." I couldn't help but chuckle.

Thanks, I needed a good chuckle after a hard day :D

[hysteria]

yeah the whole "etc" at the end makes it pretty hilarious.

[Howie]

Dreaming is a natural activity for the mind/body. Lucid dreaming is mearly the fact that you become aware of this natural activity which renders it in itself as natural.

It is a normal function that has nothing to do with an occult or witchcraft.

[dream-scape]

I'm really not sure where this line between lucid dreaming and wicca comes from... I once had a roommate and when I mentioned something about lucid dreaming his was response was, "Oh, yeah I've heard that's used in wicca alot." While I'm not sure if that in itself is true or not, for some reason it breeds the false assumption that all people who have lucid dreams must be involved in wicca.

A may be used in B. Therefore anyone doing A must also be doing B. :?: I don't follow the logic there.

[Seeker]

I want to assure you brother Abstration, there is nothing evil or wrong with lucid dreaming. I was born again in March of 1973 and although I have strayed many times, I also am a strong believer.
Do not let some of these others rattle you! Lucid dreaming is an ability that is a part of everyone, just like dreaming. It is true that most of the world thinks of things like this a New Age, or Satanic, but that is just ignorance.

Let me pose this to you: In much of the old and new testiment, prophets or apostles would have dreamsn and visions. I am totally convinced that they were lucid dreams authored by God!

I have been a lucid dreamer for over 13 years now and still hold to my faith!

In two weeks, I would be proud to adopt you!

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by Rakkantekimusouka
Jeez, bradybaker, you may be an atheist, but don't be an AH. This was just rude. I apologize on his behalf, Abstraction.
Whoa, sorry. But honestly, read that title. How could I resist?

It should be a sin to be so serious about everything all the time.

[Joseph_Stalin]

Brady, I'm surprised in you...although mildly amusing, this was a pretty serious topic. Let's leave sarcastic comments to theists in the Philosophy boards, instead ;)

[Rakkantekimusouka]

Originally posted by Joseph_Stalin
Brady, I'm surprised in you...although mildly amusing, this was a pretty serious topic. Let's leave sarcastic comments to theists in the Philosophy boards, instead ;)

Couldn't have said it better myself! Kudos, commrade, I second that!

[Abstraction]

I know the topic title was a little weird O_o... I only phrased it like that because there are plenty of "Christians". I just wanted people who actually lived out what they said they believed instead of just in name only... in short... people who are ACTUALLY Christians.

I express my thanks to those of you who were mature about everything and respected my beleifs even if they do not coincide with yours.

I wasn't referring to so much lucid dreaming as I was OOBE.... It seems like some people might think they can go outside of their body and screw with people or something... or actually have some kind of supra-natural ability with demi-god-esque abilities, or beleive in a spirit seeker.... That is more what I'm talking about.

BTW, if you're not a Christian, and you're offended, what do you expect me to say?:P After all, you were warned before you came in here foo'!

[Seeker]

What are your concerns about OBE? I've never experienced one myself, but am sure that no harm will come to me if I ever did.

[Alex D]

I know that this is comming from an agnostic, not what you wanted, but OBE's, in my opinion, are just dreams, perhaps not even lucid dreams. In an OBE, the dreamer believes that they have left thier body and are 'Floating' in the room. But please, consider this, our memories are very powerful things, it's not unlikelyy that you mind could re-create the enviroment arround you, in this dream. People who claim to have left thier body in a lucid dream, turning it into an OBE, seem to have lost thier lucidity, rather than reached somthing higher than it. OBE's have been reported in intense lucid dreams, perhaps the mind cannot handle that much lucidity, thus the subconsious tries to take back control, changing the dreamscape.

This is just a theory though.

[Abstraction]

Originally posted by Alex D
I know that this is comming from an agnostic, not what you wanted, but OBE's, in my opinion, are just dreams, perhaps not even lucid dreams. In an OBE, the dreamer believes that they have left thier body and are 'Floating' in the room. But please, consider this, our memories are very powerful things, it's not unlikelyy that you mind could re-create the enviroment arround you, in this dream. People who claim to have left thier body in a lucid dream, turning it into an OBE, seem to have lost thier lucidity, rather than reached somthing higher than it. OBE's have been reported in intense lucid dreams, perhaps the mind cannot handle that much lucidity, thus the subconsious tries to take back control, changing the dreamscape.

This is just a theory though.

Yeah... I know a lot of people believe in them... I didn't want to insult all the OOBE people... buuuut since we're on that note, I feel like it's a buncha hoohaa, and that if it were actually real (as opposed to a vidid creation of the imagination) then surely by now there would've been extensive testing where an individual was able to manipulate an object previously impossible to manipulate... like a safe with paper and pen where you don't know the combination. That's why when someone wrote earlier that they had an OOBE, and that when they tested it on their dogs... their dogs reacted... well I was thinking "If you believed you were seeing dogs in your dream then duh, your mind is also capable of making them react in your dream."

Has anyone done studies on group or coupled dreaming? Where two people meet in a dream, do a test in their dream, then write about it without talking to one another and compare? I am a huge skeptic, but I would find that interesting.

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by Joseph_Stalin
Brady, I'm surprised in you...although mildly amusing, this was a pretty serious topic. Let's leave sarcastic comments to theists in the Philosophy boards, instead
I thoroughly apologize for my unbelievable insensitivity. In the future I will thoroughly consider the feelings of any and all hardcore theists before attempting to write any statement designed to amuse myself and other DV members. I am now aware that any form of sarcastic tone in a comment regarding theism is a full out assault on the Lord Almighty, Jesus Christ, the Holy Trinity and all who have had their life saved by these entities. I hereby repeal all of my previous statements in this thread and will revert to my previous form, a lowly atheist whose comments and opinions are naturally of lesser value than those who have a background in some form of theism.

Me --> :bowdown: :sniper: <-- Jesus

[Abstraction]

bradybaker, I asked that only Christians enter, because I knew that non-Christians would obviously be offended. I can't believe how rude you've been making a topic mocking mine, and continuing to post in here, despite the fact that the initial post itself asks that only serious Christians enter and discuss.

This was supposed to be a place for me to express my thoughts to other Christians... those that believe what I do, not for a puerile troublemaker to come in and intentionally mess up the topic just because you want to let the world know that you reject God's existance.

Have a shred of respect.

The best thing you can do is NOT respond to this, and stay out of my thread because I'm sure there are millions of religious discussion threads that you can hijack somewhere else.

[Rakkantekimusouka]

I guess the only thing to do now is ignore him, Abs...

Again, I apologize on his behalf. Please, continue with your thoughts...

[dream-scape]

Originally posted by bradybaker
designed to amuse myself

This forum does not exist so you can amuse yourself at the expense of others. If you want that, start your own forum, and then watch it gradually turn into nothing more than you being an asshole to yourself.

[justme]

this migth help. i was in a lucid dream once and i asked a pastor if lucid dreamin is a sin and he said yes. well then a strom was mixing up and a tornado appered out of no where! and i said God if u want me to lucid dream then let the tornado not wake me up. then the tornado passed rite though me. so i think gods fine with lucid dreaming. hope that helped.

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by Abstraction+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Abstraction)</div>The best thing you can do is NOT respond to this[/b]
Well, that was the original plan....until you said this,
Originally posted by Ramu@
I guess the only thing to do now is ignore him, Abs...

Again, I apologize on his behalf.
And I apologize to me on your behalf for being so passively agressive.

<!--QuoteBegin-dream-scape
This forum does not exist so you can amuse yourself at the expense of others.
Sure, take the one byte out of my post that is most codemning and display it for the world to see. Who are you? Michael Moore?

[dream-scape]

Originally posted by bradybaker+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bradybaker)</div><!--QuoteBegin-dream-scape
This forum does not exist so you can amuse yourself at the expense of others.
Sure, take the one byte out of my post that is most codemning and display it for the world to see. Who are you? Michael Moore?[/b]

It was not really all that out of context... and shhhhh.... don't tell :wink:

[irishcream]

I'm in the process of re discovering my faith. I know i believe in something, but at the same time, i don't want it to rule my life, i want some kind of control, as in, i don't hear a voice in my head saying 'you should do this'.
I make my own decisions.
If as somebody said, dreaming is natural, then what's wrong with lucid dreaming?
Is there a theory that these dreams come from some kind of outside source?
In keeping my dream journal, i have discovered that my dreams are 90% of the time a reflection of what is going on in my waking life, simple as that, there's nothing really bizarre going on, the images may be different, but the underlying theme is the same, and i think that's what you have to look for in interpreting it, look for the symbols and events that match your waking life.
So, to sum up.
I don't believe that lucid dreaming is evil, i certainly don't believe i'm going to burn in hell for it.
What i believe is this: When my time comes, God, or whatever's out there, will judge me accordingly.
Let's face it, we can't know for sure that God exists, cos no one's ever come back to tell us!
Jesus is a different matter, there's scientific evidence for the man, but there's no proof that he had anything to do with god.
There is a thought that he was a political activist, who wanted to make a point.

Now then, i hope i haven't offended anyone.
there seems to be a lot of bad feeling in this thread. :shakehead2:

[wasup]

I don't think people should have freaked out :| It wasn't that big of a deal, if you make a "serious" thread, it's bound to get at least one not "serious" post.

[Seeker]

Originally posted by wasup
if you make a \"serious\" thread, it's bound to get at least one not \"serious\" post.

OK then, this thread has had it's share. Let's get it back on topic. Abstraction is not the first Christian that has expressed concern about this. Let's work it through to the end.

[irishcream]

so, we're going to agree to disagree, and stop acting like kids in the playground?
not that everyone's not entitled to their opinion, but personally i think it was getting a bit daft

[Amethyst Star]

I've grown up in a Christian home and have tried my best to live according to God's word all of my life. Here's my take on what you've mentioned.

For the most part I agree with what Alex D said. I'm a bit of a skeptic, but I'm not ruling out that OBEs or dream sharing might, in fact, exist. I don't doubt God's power to have those occur if it's within his will. Not to mention, I'd love it if dream sharing were possible! Imagine what witnessing would be like if we could slip into someone's dream and tell them about Christ and "show" them what He's done for us. I believe, though, that too many people simply want them to exist so bad that they delude themselves into thinking that what was a normal dream was something more. That's where I find it hard, being that dreams sent by God could be ignored, though that is unlikely.

Anyway, that's my take on things.

-Amé

P.S. I tend to avoid the Philosophy section for obvious reasons.

[syzygy]

Why limit yourself to what Christians believe? God is all around you, in every person, and everyone has something to tell you if you really want to listen, even those who appear to have nothing to say. How do you even know that someone who calls themself a Christian is actually a Christian? Anyway...

I do not consider myself Christian more than any other religion, because I think they all have something equal to give, which in their essence is the same thing. I just take Christianity more symbolically than most, which makes much more sense if you look into it.

Lucid dreaming is a very interesting thing, which can have a dramatic effect on how you view reality. You are you in your waking life, but you are also you in your dreams, and in deep sleep, so who is the real you? If you are conscious while awake, what is wrong with being conscious in your dream state? The only difference is that in your dreams you don't have to wait for time to change what you want, it happens immediately, and you are also not bound to physical laws because you are the only one experiencing it. Some people are born with the ability to lucid dream, so it is a very natural thing, nothing to be scared of. You do not need the acceptance of other Christians to know what is right, ask yourself, for within yourself is where God resides.