Question for athiests...

[kingerman]

You still try to justify that Adam and Eve exist~ Do you have biological evidence Julius Caesar existed?

[O'nus]

From gotquestions Thank you for referencing.. I honestly have no problem with it at all and think it is a good thing. Liberal scholars and fictional authors like to purport the idea that the gospels of Thomas and Peter (and other long-disputed books) contain truths that the church vehemently stomped out, but that simply has no basis historically. It is closer to the truth to say that no serious theologians really cared about these books because they were obviously written by people lying about authorship and had little basis in reality. That is one reason why a council declaring the canon was so late in coming (397 AD), because the books that were trusted and the ones that had been handed down were already widely known. I do not understand what this is in response to. So.. this admits that there was mixed authorship and editing.. and it does not defeat the fact that it is wrong about Adam and Eve - which is an integral part of the entire foundation of Christianity (original sin and atonement). Can you elaborate..? Do you have biological evidence Julius Caesar existed? I find this an odd objection. Let me first tackle the question; - We know that Julius Caesar existed because of the prolific historical documents - We know that he was cremated and spread amongst St. Angelos Castle in Rome but the Visigoths ruined it when they invaded. - The Julii family line can be traced. In other words, his relatives can be traced as well. Aside from that, I do not see how it holds relevance to Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve are said to be the first two people on the planet. It is impossible for that to be true. How is that even remotely analogous to Julius Caesar? This is not a proper analogy. ~

[kingerman]

The Bible is perfect, hundreds of prophecies that come true, and sure you can look up "Bible contradictions" and get plenty of stuff, but those are from people only looking for contradictions, every one can be disproved by either reading the rest of the passage or just taking the time to study it. Before i came to Christ I looked up hundreds of contradictions. Eventually i could no longer deny the truth

[O'nus]

The Bible is perfect, hundreds of prophecies that come true, What the hell are you talking about? I just showed you already that Paul's prophecies were to happen in his life-time.. and they did not. It is not a contradiction - he is simply wrong. The only prophecies that came true were the ones that already happen. Do you honestly think someone is a prophet if they can recount history to you? In that case, google is God. and sure you can look up "Bible contradictions" and get plenty of stuff, but those are from people only looking for contradictions, every one can be disproved by either reading the rest of the passage or just taking the time to study it. Before i came to Christ I looked up hundreds of contradictions. Eventually i could no longer deny the truth Why are you completely ignoring the point about Adam and Eve? You're smart. I know you are. Why are you dodging this fundamental problem? ~

[kingerman]

What the hell are you talking about? I just showed you already that Paul's prophecies were to happen in his life-time.. and they did not. It is not a contradiction - he is simply wrong. The only prophecies that came true were the ones that already happen. Do you honestly think someone is a prophet if they can recount history to you? In that case, google is God. Why are you completely ignoring the point about Adam and Eve? You're smart. I know you are. Why are you dodging this fundamental problem? ~ Paul speaks about his own presence at the last day only hypothetically.[93] They point out Paul later states the Day of the Lord comes like a thief (1 Thessalonians 5:1-2) which is a word Jesus uses himself (Matthew 24:43-44) expressing the impossibility of predicting His second coming (Matthew 24:36).[94] Paul prophesied in 1 Thessalonians 5:2-11: "For you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, Peace and safety, destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape." In 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Paul prophesied that the Man of sin would sit in the temple of God declaring himself as God. The Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE. Adam and Eve The Jews in the Scripture traced their lineage right straight back to Adam and Eve.They were the parents of Cain,Abel,and Seth.If you don`t believe in them,you could`t believe in Enoch,Abraham,Noah,King David and the others,as Adam and Eve were the first to bear children.We too could trace our heritage back to them given the resources,as the gentile people are descendants of Japeth,which was one of Noahs three sons,who in turn was descended from Adam and Eve.New Testament writings traces this lineage.

[Black_Eagle]

Have you ever heard of self-fulfilling prophecy?

[dostoevskyblue]

i live in northeast pa, in my 33 years of existence,ive only had two personal encounters with hardcore christians pushing their beliefs on me,as far as christianity is concerned,i think of it as walmart,their the biggest chain,not going away anytime soon,if the shoppers are happy,i wont convince them to go elsewhere...and hope i dont get a shitstorm of criticism from atheists

[kingerman]

That's what God ultimately wants, huh? Diagnostic criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following: (1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) (2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love (3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) (4) requires excessive admiration (5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations (6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends (7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others (8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her (9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth Edition. Copyright 1994 American Psychiatric Association http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/di...issisticpd.htm God demands, seeks and requests our worship because He deserves it, because it is the nature of a Christian to worship Him, and because our eternal destiny depends upon it. That is the theme of redemptive history: to worship the true, living and glorious God.

[kingerman]

First of all, thank you for completely ignoring my earlier post and then just repeating the arguments I defeated. I will attempt another round of this. As for the "perfect fit" thing, homosexuals have two holes and two hands with ten fingers each. Use your imagination. I don't see the relevance of your argument any way. An orange doesn't fit perfectly in your mouth. You have to be inventive and either cut it up or peel it. Are oranges the work of Satan? Explain how belief is a choice. How can one choose to believe something that truly seems illogical to him? Assertion is not the same argument. Back up what you are saying. Can you choose to believe that hamsters invented the airplane? You forgot to say, "Excuse me while I change the subject." I would also like to see proof of your tangential argument. So, you assume atheists are really theists having temper tantrums with their eyes closed and hands on their ears and going, "La la la la la, God is not really there! I don't acknowledge God!" Do you think there is even one person in the world who honestly doesn't believe God exists? I challenge you to answer my questions and counter my points this time. If you don't, I am going to know why. The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God. God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that people become homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27) and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger/rage, does that make it right for him to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true with homosexuality. However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13).

[Baron Samedi]

Haven't read the rest of the posts so I'm sure it's been said. I can't get married because of the religious right. Christianity also made me suicidal as a teenager for being gay, it also stops scientific progress through stem cell research and other lines of research because of "playing god". I feel that. I have a family member that was suicidal over guilt from masturbation. Thanks, Christianity.

[Universal Mind]

God demands, seeks and requests our worship because He deserves it, because it is the nature of a Christian to worship Him, and because our eternal destiny depends upon it. That is the theme of redemptive history: to worship the true, living and glorious God. Thank you for acknowledging me. I am much more interested in your responses to the arguments concerning God's existence, but at least you responded to a theological argument I made. Why does God deserve praise to the point that anybody who doesn't give it to him deserves torture? Does God have Narcissistic Personality Disorder? There are people like that, and we call them arrogant assholes. The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God. God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that people become homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27) and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger/rage, does that make it right for him to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true with homosexuality. However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13). Thanks for acknowledging more of my arguments. Those points don't counter the arguments I made or answer the questions I asked.

[kingerman]

Thank you for acknowledging me. I am much more interested in your responses to the arguments concerning God's existence, but at least you responded to a theological argument I made. Why does God deserve praise to the point that anybody who doesn't give it to him deserves torture? Does God have Narcissistic Personality Disorder? There are people like that, and we call them arrogant assholes. Thanks for acknowledging more of my arguments. Those points don't counter the arguments I made or answer the questions I asked. Isaiah 43:7 says that God created us for His glory. In context with the other verses, it can be said that man “glorifies” God because through man God’s glory can be seen in things such as love, music, heroism and so forth—things belonging to God that we are carrying “in jars of clay” (2 Corinthians 4:7). We are the vessels which “contain” His glory. All the things we are able to do and be find their source in Him. God interacts with nature in the same way. Nature exhibits His glory. His glory is revealed to man’s mind through the material world in many ways, and often in different ways to different people. One person may be thrilled by the sight of the mountains, and another person may love the beauty of the sea. But that which is behind them both (God’s glory) speaks to both people and connects them to God. In this way, God is able to reveal Himself to all men, no matter their race, heritage or location. As Psalm 19:1-4 says, “The heavens are telling of the glory of God and their expanse is declaring the work of His hands; day to day pours forth speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words; their voice is not heard. Their line has gone out through all the earth, and their utterances to the end of the world.” What are the questions?

[Universal Mind]

What are the questions? The ones you quoted.

[kingerman]

I feel that. I have a family member that was suicidal over guilt from masturbation. Thanks, Christianity. While the Bible nowhere explicitly states that masturbation is a sin, there is no question as to whether the actions that lead to masturbation are sinful. Masturbation is nearly always the result of lustful thoughts, sexual stimulation, and/or pornographic images. It is these problems that need to be dealt with. If the sins of lust, immoral thoughts, and pornography are forsaken and overcome, masturbation will become a non-issue. Many people struggle with guilty feelings concerning masturbation, when in reality, the things that led to the act are far more worthy of repentance.

[kingerman]

The ones you quoted. The Bible sees the denial of God as the true delusion, and this delusion extends to the atheist’s view of humanity as “good,” all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. A sober assessment of human beings recognizes that we lie, cheat, steal, lust, complain, become embittered and resentful, envy, hate, forget, and are careless, ruthless, disrespectful, and loveless. Not only do we do all these things on a daily and hourly basis, but we do them naturally from our birth. This is what God’s Word means when it says, “There is no one who does good” (Psalm 14:3). This does not mean we never do anything positive, like obeying our parents or giving money to a church or charity. It means that we are so obviously sinful that it is silly to call human beings “good.” Nobody teaches children to lie; they do it naturally. Nobody teaches teenage boys to lust; they do it naturally. Nobody teaches the employee to resent his boss or spread malicious gossip about the coworker with whom he is competing for a promotion; he does these things naturally. Nobody teaches the wife to unjustly criticize and complain about her husband, or the husband to neglect and condescend to his wife; both do these things naturally.

[Universal Mind]

How does that answer my questions or counter my points?

[Baron Samedi]

While the Bible nowhere explicitly states that masturbation is a sin, there is no question as to whether the actions that lead to masturbation are sinful. Masturbation is nearly always the result of lustful thoughts, sexual stimulation, and/or pornographic images. It is these problems that need to be dealt with. If the sins of lust, immoral thoughts, and pornography are forsaken and overcome, masturbation will become a non-issue. Many people struggle with guilty feelings concerning masturbation, when in reality, the things that led to the act are far more worthy of repentance. Thinking about sex sex sex sex is perfectly normal. No one should feel guilty for it. You think about sex all the time. Women's naked bodies are amazingly beautiful. You are thinking about having sex with the same sex our the opposite sex right now. How do I know? I keep talking about sex. It's okay. I know, because you are human. We are biologically wired that way. That's why there are so many billions of us on the planet. We like to have sex a lot. Ponder this paradox: Thinking about having sex with someone is a lustful thought, or a sin, unless you are married to them. But, you would never get married to them unless you were sexually attracted to them. It's impossible to be sexually attracted to someone, fall in love with them, without thinking about wanting to have sex with them. It's a tragedy that people in church who are gay will want to kill themselves because they feel guilty for being gay. It's a tragedy that people in church will want to kill themselves because they think about having sex with the same sex. *** Oh, and by the way, on the subject of sex, it says in the Bible that if a man rapes a woman who is betrothed, his punishment is to give her father 50 pieces of silver and he must marry her, and may not divorce her all of his days. (Yeah... and I never in all my 25 years of church, never heard that scripture preached on. I came across because I was so devout I read the Bible five times.) Lovely. What a brutal punishment. Now, this sick fuck gets to rape her over and over again for the rest of her life, but it's not considered rape by society because they are married. And, she is forced to marry her rapist, because she did what? Oh, she was born a woman, and women are property to be bought and sold like cattle. If you don't know the scripture reference, then you don't know your Bible well enough. It shouldn't be too hard to find.

[Raven Knight]

The verse is Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. Now that is some sick shit! Oh, and by the way, on the subject of sex, it says in the Bible that if a man rapes a woman who is betrothed, his punishment is to give her father 50 pieces of silver and he must marry her, and may not divorce her all of his days. (Yeah... and I never in all my 25 years of church, never heard that scripture preached on. I came across because I was so devout I read the Bible five times.) Lovely. What a brutal punishment. Now, this sick fuck gets to rape her over and over again for the rest of her life, but it's not considered rape by society because they are married. And, she is forced to marry her rapist, because she did what? Oh, she was born a woman, and women are property to be bought and sold like cattle. If you don't know the scripture reference, then you don't know your Bible well enough. It shouldn't be too hard to find.

[Bonsay]

Is it because I'm Asian? Most definitely. Also black people. You can never trust those.

[kingerman]

Most definitely. Also black people. You can never trust those. That's quite racialist.

[Indecent Exposure]

Religion is inherently dangerous, it always has and always will spark mass conflict, also, its a load of bollacks that is preventing our advancement as a spieces.

[O'nus]

Paul speaks about his own presence at the last day only hypothetically.[93] They point out Paul later states the Day of the Lord comes like a thief (1 Thessalonians 5:1-2) which is a word Jesus uses himself (Matthew 24:43-44) expressing the impossibility of predicting His second coming (Matthew 24:36).[94] If you would kindly read the quotations I gave you earlier, he explicitly states that it is within his lifetime. Furthermore, even if it was hypothetical, why are you basing your beliefs on a hypothetical scenario. Paul prophesied in 1 Thessalonians 5:2-11: "For you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, Peace and safety, destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape." In 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Paul prophesied that the Man of sin would sit in the temple of God declaring himself as God. The Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE. Aside from the fact that I have already quoted Paul as saying it would occur in his lifetime, how come you are now saying that it is to happen suddenly when before you were saying that you were seeing signs of it coming and it is "obvious that the rapture is soon upon us". Adam and Eve The Jews in the Scripture traced their lineage right straight back to Adam and Eve.They were the parents of Cain,Abel,and Seth.If you don`t believe in them,you could`t believe in Enoch,Abraham,Noah,King David and the others,as Adam and Eve were the first to bear children.We too could trace our heritage back to them given the resources,as the gentile people are descendants of Japeth,which was one of Noahs three sons,who in turn was descended from Adam and Eve.New Testament writings traces this lineage. Genetics proves you wrong - there was no adam and eve, they never existed, and we are all related to to Polyp. ~

[mowglycdb]

OK I'm going to start with this the catholic christian religion had very very dark ages during 5 centuries they tried to control human beings by telling them what to believe. That they should "ignore" there intuition to decide for yourself, when people tell you that it's to change your believes and use you, there's nothing else to it. AND PLEASE "ATHIESTS" don't confuse God with what a religion says about him/her usually they're all just saying a part of it to control others, most people that spread a religion are doing that. God exists either ways of what any religion says. God is the union of all conciouness of everything there is, a Creator is another thing which I think the bible tries to talk about. It's just that thing that I don't like about what athiests think, ohhh look what their religion says, so God musn't be real, you can say that what they say God is, is a big fat lie. On another note, you don't really have to worry about what kingerman thinks , you don't have to proove him wrong , when he dies he'll see for himself what's gonna happen

[O'nus]

OK I'm going to start with this the catholic christian religion had very very dark ages during 5 centuries they tried to control human beings by telling them what to believe. That they should "ignore" there intuition to decide for yourself, when people tell you that it's to change your believes and use you, there's nothing else to it. Precisely - a country of self-policing civilians is the best populus. Who's a better slave than one that willingly slave themselves? AND PLEASE "ATHIESTS" don't confuse God with what a religion says about him/her usually they're all just saying a part of it to control others, most people that spread a religion are doing that. God exists either ways of what any religion says. God is the union of all conciouness of everything there is, a Creator is another thing which I think the bible tries to talk about. I realize that "God" is still a concept that can still be proven - much like Unicorns of Fairies. However, I am arguing the reliability of the bible and it's teachings so far in this thread. It's just that thing that I don't like about what athiests think, ohhh look what their religion says, so God musn't be real, you can say that what they say God is, is a big fat lie. "Is man a creation of God? Or is God a creation of man?" Pretty much sums up my response to this quotation. Unfortunately, the traits to show that man has created God is overwhelming. A simple view at the parallel's between all God's and it's importance as an attachment relationship can demonstrate this. On another note, you don't really have to worry about what kingerman thinks , you don't have to proove him wrong , when he dies he'll see for himself what's gonna happen Maybe you should consider that I am worried about lives that go to waste much like they believe I will die in hellfire forever. Some Atheists do not care to debate - but I do. ~

[mowglycdb]

Maybe you should consider that I am worried about lives that go to waste much like they believe I will die in hellfire forever. Some Atheists do not care to debate - but I do. ~ I understand, I'm not saying I don't care =), if people ask me I can give help. The thing is each person chooses what to believe is true, and where their life is going , no one is doing something "WRONG" , I think this way ( it's hypocrite sometimes but I'm trying xp) they know what they're doing, to tell someone is wrong is to not trust in them, he is creating his own life, that's how I choose, but I'm not saying anyone should copy me or stuff xP , the idea is calming down and deciding what we really want. So sorry xp