I'm an atheist, but....

[Universal Mind]

I take it back. Atheists have to have the biggest imagination of all to avoid their own foolishness. Albert Einstein was not an athiest. He was more a mathematician. He didn't have time to preach atheism he was too busy seeking and making practical use of his knowledge. Sorry but no-one is more useless than an athiest. History proves it. You need to read the link I posted so you can see how wrong you are about all of that, except for the fact that Einstein did not "preach" atheism. Most atheists don't preach atheism. They just don't believe in God.

[Mystic7]

go back and read my post I added some for you. As I knew you would complain after I posted it. Your a preaching atheist. And don't deny it. I've read your posts.

[Universal Mind]

go back and read my post I added some for you. As I knew you would complain after I posted it. Your a preaching atheist. And don't deny it. I've read your posts. I know that not everybody on the list was an atheist. But look at the ones who were. I only preach atheism in places where there are willing participants. I never argue it to anybody who has not signed up to learn my point of view. What is your point? Einstein was an atheist. Was he useless? Here is another list of useless morons... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists

[Mystic7]

According to my definition Einstein was not atheist. A scientist maybe. But that isn't atheism. Atheism is not scientific. I'm not saying atheist are useless morons. But I am saying that no-body ever made history for very long being one. Because they just arn't that smart. Sure you can gather together all the people who have being atheists. But I would argue that they didn't contribute anything that will allow them to be remembered for a very long time about anything that significant. I only preach atheism in places where there are willing participants. Are you sure about that? You still preach it, rather than prove it.

[Universal Mind]

According to my definition Einstein was not atheist. A scientist maybe. But that isn't atheism. Atheism is not scientific. I'm not saying atheist are useless morons. But I am saying that no-body ever made history for very long being one. Because they just arn't that smart. Sure you can gather together all the people who have being atheists. But I would argue that they didn't contribute anything that will allow them to be remembered for a very long time about anything that significant. Are you sure about that? You still preach it, rather than prove it. Are you sure you have looked at the lists? You can't pick out some names of people who have been and will be remembered for things that are significant? This is ridiculous. If you want to debate the existence of God, start a thread in the religion forum. Also, read the arguments I have already posted. They are not mere preachings. However, I don't even know your argument for the existence of God. Have you ever even stated it here? Start a thread on it. Let's see what you've got.

[Cyclic13]

I would say, holding a belief in absolute atheism rather than choosing to remain an equally open skeptic either way would have to stem from naively ascribing to the mainstream materialistic mindset which ultimately comes from one having a lack of faith in one's self. Once one starts to see the world without blinders on, one would start to realize themselves as part of the splendor and the horror of the cosmos. The earth that spawned us, and the singularity that spawned it, can fundamentally be no different from ourselves. It can be perceptually different, but fundamentally it is not. We are birthed in and of the universe by the universe, so in essence we are the universe. That is, once one takes a minute to strip away that false sense of an ego enough to realize it. If there truly were no ever-evolving intelligence governing over the universe, there would be no need to have the intelligence enough to be able to question it. It's self-defeating really... Believing in everything as just some cosmic coincidence is as far a leap in the wrong direction, as someone with an equal amount of blind faith believing it's due to an invisible man sitting at some throne watching over us 24/7. Both of those perceptions lack rational and go solely on giant leaps of faith, or a giant lack thereof. Without an initial spark of thought, there'd be nothing to think about... Without an initial sparked question, you can have no answers... Stepping out of the ego and causality... should leave you only in wondrous questioning thought... Terence McKenna- Culture is your operating system

[wendylove]

Believing in everything as just some cosmic coincidence is as far a leap in the wrong direction, as someone with an equal amount of blind faith believing it's due to an invisible man sitting at some throne watching over us 24/7 Does any atheist here believe the universe is a cosmic coincidence, because I am a atheist and I don't. Obviously when we have the theory of everything we will know why, however the laws that govern the universe are not coincidences. Gravity for example is not a coincidence or quantum mechanics is not a coincidence. Without an initial spark of thought, there'd be nothing to think about... Without an initial sparked question, you can have no answers... Stepping out of the ego and causality... should leave you only in wondrous questioning thought... Sorry, I watched the link however I didn't understand any of it. Shame, that your questioning of thought has lead to the belife that atheist think everything is a coincidence. That the same belife creationist say evolutionist have, that they believe that evolution just happen and it random and a coincidence.

[Kromoh]

Coincidences don't exist. (read my thread about determinism) Mystic: what is your definition of atheist then? To me, it means someone who doesn't believe in a god. I wonder what is your definiton (and don't come with "atheists are all people that are fools" like last time). To my (and the majority of people's) definition, Einstein was atheist. Btw, when you experience ego loss, you understand that things happen just for happening - there is no hidden significance behind it. "The answer is that there is no answer" (quote made by me and probably some other known philosopher)

[Taosaur]

Coincidences don't exist. (read my thread about determinism) Mystic: what is your definition of atheist then? To me, it means someone who doesn't believe in a god. I wonder what is your definiton (and don't come with "atheists are all people that are fools" like last time). To my (and the majority of people's) definition, Einstein was atheist. Dude, I don't know where you got this idea or if you just assumed, but Einstein was not an atheist. He made several references to his belief in a higher power he called 'God,' most famously in his rejection of quantum mechanics, ''God does not play dice.''

[wendylove]

But I am saying that no-body ever made history for very long being one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._H._Hardy one of the greatest mathematician was a atheist. And if you do your homework your find out that he made history by advancing pure mathematics. Russel the famous mathematician and philosopher was a atheist, you know Russel paradox. Again, Einstein was a atheist he said it himself http://www.infidels.org/library/mode....html#einstein I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it. It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. Albert Einstein He made several references to his belief in a higher power he called 'God,' most famously in his rejection of quantum mechanics, ''God does not play dice.'' That comment had been taken out of context. He didn't even reject quantum mechanics, if you look it up he believed that their was something hidden in quantum mechanics that made it deterministic. According to my definition Einstein was not atheist. A scientist maybe. But that isn't atheism. Atheism is not scientific. I'm not saying atheist are useless morons. But I am saying that no-body ever made history for very long being one. Because they just arn't that smart. So let me get it, Einstein said he didn't believe in a personal god and yet he is not a atheist. Genius! Seriously, speaking. Einstein is not going to be forgotten any time soon, or is Richard Feynmen or G.H. Hardy or Russell. It a shame that I willing to accept that you can be smart and religious like Newton or Alexander Grothendieck, however you cannot except Einstein or Richard Feynmen. I guess calling the other side stupid is easy, next time I will try to be more lazy. Are you sure about that? You still preach it, rather than prove it. You cannot prove atheism, as your would be trying to prove a negative. You cannot prove a negative. I cannot disprove a god, you can also not disprove fairies or UFO's or invisiable unicorns.

[Universal Mind]

I am pretty sure the, "God does not play dice," comment was metaphoric. Einstein believed in the wonders of science, but he never said he believed in some conscious dude behind them. Mystic, I want you to tell me about how a few people did very little and are not going to be remembered. What kind of an insignificant role did Karl Marx play in history? I don't agree with Karl Marx's ideas, but I would never say that he was a nobody who did nothing. How about Sigmund Freud? He is only the father of psychoanalysis. Ayn Rand? She is one of the best writers ever and the founder of objectivism. James Watson discovered DNA. Would you consider that an insignificant contribution? We can start with those people, but the list is much longer.

[Kromoh]

I am pretty sure the, "God does not play dice," comment was metaphoric. Einstein believed in the wonders of science, but he never said he believed in some conscious dude behind them. Can't you see religious people are bad at understandign metaphors? -cough- bible -cough-

[Taosaur]

I guess I stand corrected--I could have sworn Einstein framed his spiritual searching in terms of God, which I always found kind of a failure of imagination, particularly in reference to quantum physics, but maybe it is just persistent misinformation.

[Half/Dreaming]

Can't you see religious people are bad at understandign metaphors? -cough- bible -cough- Exactly. The religious can't afford to take anything in their books as a metaphor. If it is not taken as fact and truth, they are believing that what god says is wrong. Then they wouldnt know WHAT to believe! They would be almost as lost as they are now. As for the topic of accomplishments of atheists, it is irrelevent if they were religious or not. Belief in god has absolutely nothing to do with potential intelligence. Mystic, it is borderline retarded of you to hint that atheists are unable to make important discoveries simply because they are atheists. That is what you were hinting at, right?

[hardly knew ye]

:p

[M-Cat]

The rest of your list is rather redundant. Sorry but no-one is more useless than an athiest. Just looking back on history you can see that. All right, so what have you done with your life? Do you think you're more useful than, say, Richard Dawkins? How does refusing to believe in supernatural beings make you useless, anyway? Your post is also deeply fallacious, quite apart from your pointless attacks. Before this century, it would have been extremely difficult for an outspoken atheist to be successful because the Western world was predominantly religious. There weren't a lot of atheists to begin with. It's like saying that the telephone is useless because it was only invented 150 years ago. You can't look back through history if you want to investigate recent trends.

[Mystic7]

M-Cat. You and I. We both know that faith drives results. The only greatness comes from our own faith. Atheists have no faith in intelligent design. They have no understanding in life and it's superior order. They have no respect for power and intelligence. How can they produce such works as those with much greater faith, which drives them to success. How can they produce anything other than failure. When they do not accept the life that gives them existence? You and I both know that atheism is a fad. Not a reality. Not something that can endure hardship. Not something that belongs to the soul of man. Anything else must surely be nothing more than a shallow lie. Non belief. How futile. But belief in what is good. How glorious. How can one fail that believes in good. How can one battle those that have such faith in such power. No match are they to those that do not believe. Believe in what? I speak of intelligence. Those that refuse intelligence shall be punished. Those that know and hold faith in what is true. They shall know what it means to experience glory. While the ignorance of atheism. I tell you with all my soul and being. It shall fail. It has already failed! Tune into the intelligence of peace and life. That which knows how and why it was created. Your soul knows so listen to it and you shall not perish with the dead that refuse and perish in their mistakes.

[Howie]

Have you ever taken into consideration that the more educated people get and the less they follow a specific religious ideology, that more atheist will begin to manifest in a free society. With science becoming the new ideology, unfolding and debunking unlikely fables, religion will become further a myth.

[M-Cat]

M-Cat. You and I. We both know that faith drives results. The only greatness comes from our own faith. Atheists have no faith in intelligent design. They have no understanding in life and it's superior order. They have no respect for power and intelligence. How can they produce such works as those with much greater faith, which drives them to success. How can they produce anything other than failure. When they do not accept the life that gives them existence? You and I both know that atheism is a fad. Not a reality. Not something that can endure hardship. Not something that belongs to the soul of man. Anything else must surely be nothing more than a shallow lie. Non belief. How futile. But belief in what is good. How glorious. How can one fail that believes in good. How can one battle those that have such faith in such power. No match are they to those that do not believe. Believe in what? I speak of intelligence. Those that refuse intelligence shall be punished. Those that know and hold faith in what is true. They shall know what it means to experience glory. While the ignorance of atheism. I tell you with all my soul and being. It shall fail. It has already failed! Tune into the intelligence of peace and life. That which knows how and why it was created. Your soul knows so listen to it and you shall not perish with the dead that refuse and perish in their mistakes. Wow. Man, you... I completely agree with you. I'm not being sarcastic. You changed my life with that post. Thank you.

[Mystic7]

Howie you speak the truth indeed. That this dogma will become a useless myth. As science demonstrates energy as the all prevailing substance. Directed by mind from a seperate order. And that matter was never solid. That zero point energy is proven. The truth shall prevail.

[Mystic7]

Wow. Man, you... I completely agree with you. I'm not being sarcastic. You changed my life with that post. Thank you. I did not do anything. It was only you that asked and recieved. What you realized is your own knowlegde and experience. Your own faith that saved you.

[M-Cat]

I did not do anything. It was only you that asked and recieved. What you realized is your own knowlegde and experience. Your own faith that saved you. Dude I was being sarcastic.

[Howie]

Howie you speak the truth indeed. That this dogma will become a useless myth. As science demonstrates energy as the all prevailing substance. Directed by mind from a seperate order. And that matter was never solid. That zero point energy is proven. The truth shall prevail. There will always be a need for a supreme being for some people. Maybe it is not useless. Just a realization that those two things bring about this change, right or wrong. Faith is having "it" in the face of "truth prevailed?" That is an impossible thing to combat, if you are combating it.

[Mystic7]

M-cat, Sarcasm has an effect. You take this seriously and your sarcasm makes a fool of both of us not me alone. One because I trust in your honestly blindly for your sake. Secondly I add to your recoil when you let me down with lies. But I'm pretty much accepting since I agree with every post anyway. regardless at the result. Since it can't be changed. But your mistakes still cut you down and are your responsibility the same as mine are. Yet a supreme being is not really a need. But a scientific certainty. If one has any common sense. One would not dare be so arrogant as to suggest they were the pinacle of creation.

[Rakjavik]

M-cat, Sarcasm has an effect. You take this seriously and your sarcasm makes a fool of both of us not me alone. One because I trust in your honestly blindly for your sake. Secondly I add to your recoil when you let me down with lies. But I'm pretty much accepting since I agree with every post anyway. regardless at the result. Since it can't be changed. But your mistakes still cut you down and are your responsibility the same as mine are. Yet a supreme being is not really a need. But a scientific certainty. If one has any common sense. One would not dare be so arrogant as to suggest they were the pinacle of creation. What are you smoking? It seems like you spend more time trying to sound deep and philosophically self righteous in your posts then actually making any sense...... Maybe it's just me.