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    1. #76
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    2. #77
      The Blue dreamer bluefinger's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dreamhope11 View Post
      Dude... this is TV... it is entertainment... the fact it brought up the bible as a reference for UFO sightings in antiquity already says a lot...

      What next? The end of the world will happen at 2012?
      -Bluefinger v1.25- Enter the madness that are my dreams (DJ Update, non-LD)

      "When you reject the scientific method in order to believe what you want, you know that you have failed at life. Sorry, but there is no justification, no matter how wordy you make it."

      - Xei

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    3. #78
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      Sometimes proof is met by looking at things with a different point of view.
      In the bible and other holy books it wouldn't say "Aliens from a different planet came and visited us and they gave us technology"
      Of course not they would have no idea what a alien is so they would assume they where gods because of the way they travelled and looked.
      Why do gods come from the sky?
      Why don't the gods come from inside of trees or flowers.
      Just as another poster said "We used to think the world being round was ridiculous" But hey look now we have found out it is round, maybe in 200 years time this theorey might be accepted, but untill then people who beleive this theorey would just have to wait and either get proved wrong or possibly proved right.
      But there is no need to continously argue about it, lets just accept it as a possbility.
      We could say a distant planet is made of cheese, untill all the planets in the universe have been discovered there might well be a cheese planet..

    4. #79
      The Blue dreamer bluefinger's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dreamhope11 View Post
      Sometimes proof is met by looking at things with a different point of view.
      In the bible and other holy books it wouldn't say "Aliens from a different planet came and visited us and they gave us technology"
      Of course not they would have no idea what a alien is so they would assume they where gods because of the way they travelled and looked.
      Why do gods come from the sky?
      Why don't the gods come from inside of trees or flowers.
      Just as another poster said "We used to think the world being round was ridiculous" But hey look now we have found out it is round, maybe in 200 years time this theorey might be accepted, but untill then people who beleive this theorey would just have to wait and either get proved wrong or possibly proved right.
      But there is no need to continously argue about it, lets just accept it as a possbility.
      We could say a distant planet is made of cheese, untill all the planets in the universe have been discovered there might well be a cheese planet..
      Last edited by bluefinger; 06-17-2008 at 05:15 PM.
      -Bluefinger v1.25- Enter the madness that are my dreams (DJ Update, non-LD)

      "When you reject the scientific method in order to believe what you want, you know that you have failed at life. Sorry, but there is no justification, no matter how wordy you make it."

      - Xei

      DILD: 6, WILD: 1

    5. #80
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      Quote Originally Posted by bluefinger View Post
      What next? The end of the world will happen at 2012?
      Don't forget, the Mayans made a prediction, therefore it must be true, no evidence required


    6. #81
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lucid Seeker View Post
      Don't forget, the Mayans made a prediction, therefore it must be true, no evidence required
      The evidence is clearly in the prediction. Have faith.

    7. #82
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      Quote Originally Posted by adam has a dream View Post
      The evidence is clearly in the prediction. Have faith.
      Yes, have faith in a prediction made by a civilization that couldn't even predict their own demise.


    8. #83
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      Exactly.

    9. #84
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      Quote Originally Posted by bluefinger View Post

      By the criteria I have set out, I can't accept the assumptions made here about Aliens doing whatever. Going for the gaps in knowledge is not a valid argument, as that can be used for justifying anything.
      No no no, I'm not using the gaps in knowledge argument to justify alien contact. I'm using it to justify a slightly increased probability of alien contact. And the probability doesn't increase until the gap in knowledge becomes apparant by us learning that knowledge.

    10. #85
      The Blue dreamer bluefinger's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick View Post
      No no no, I'm not using the gaps in knowledge argument to justify alien contact. I'm using it to justify a slightly increased probability of alien contact. And the probability doesn't increase until the gap in knowledge becomes apparant by us learning that knowledge.
      So you didn't read the first sentence of that post. *SIGH*
      -Bluefinger v1.25- Enter the madness that are my dreams (DJ Update, non-LD)

      "When you reject the scientific method in order to believe what you want, you know that you have failed at life. Sorry, but there is no justification, no matter how wordy you make it."

      - Xei

      DILD: 6, WILD: 1

    11. #86
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      humans and their importance. Love one another and your enemies too. Hard stuff in my book. One thing I do know. Humans are no more important in this world then all the other things in it. Did aliens make the animals too?

    12. #87
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      Quote Originally Posted by bluefinger View Post
      So you didn't read the first sentence of that post. *SIGH*
      No, I read the first sentence, but my response still stands. I'm saying the probability will increase when/if we find new evidence.

    13. #88
      The Blue dreamer bluefinger's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick View Post
      No, I read the first sentence, but my response still stands. I'm saying the probability will increase when/if we find new evidence.
      Even probabilities are not defined by lack of evidence. Science has already shown a lot on our evolution so not to need probabilities such as Aliens, because then, who created the Aliens if we were created by Aliens? Another Alien race? How far does this go back then? A probability assumes that there is a chance for the whatever event to occur (and assumes the event to be a real possibility). A hypothesis only attempts to explain an occurrence and then to provide predictions to show that the occurrence is true, no matter the probability of it occurring in reality.

      As for contact, I hold onto my criticisms concerning the perils of space-travel and the distances of space itself, until I am shown definitive and objective proof that shows me otherwise.
      -Bluefinger v1.25- Enter the madness that are my dreams (DJ Update, non-LD)

      "When you reject the scientific method in order to believe what you want, you know that you have failed at life. Sorry, but there is no justification, no matter how wordy you make it."

      - Xei

      DILD: 6, WILD: 1

    14. #89
      Xei
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      'The probability that we were created by aliens' is a completely meaningless phrase. We either were or we weren't, and there is no evidence that we were, so therefore we must accept that we weren't. Is that not right?

      I personally think alien life is incredibly likely in this universe for the obvious reasons, but there is clear evidence that evolution was a progression from very simple life forms to complex ones on this planet which rules out any higher powers really.

      There is as little point talking about this as there is talking about the possibility that there's an invisible flower pot floating above my head.

    15. #90
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      I am not saying we were 'Created' What i am trying to put accross is that maybe in the past our civilisation was visited by extraterrestrial life.
      As they started to appear ancient man proclaimed them as gods by which the way they travel and the technology they possess.
      There are many theories around this, as some people believed they geneticaly modified our DNA with theres, some people beleive thats the missing link in evolution.

      http://youtube.com/watch?v=VG9HqyMvC...eature=related
      The neding to that particular film was based on what some people beleive that we are decendants from life on mars, yes and i know its just a film.

      The following is the thoughts of the man who wrote chariots of fire.

      Civilizations from other worlds have visited our world for thousand of years. They are mentioned in mythology and scriptures from EVERY Continent.

      They are all friendly Aliens; if they wanted to take over this world, they would have done so before humans invented weapons.

      I suspect there are a multitude of Alien civilizations visiting this Earth based on the variety of space vehicles being reported.

      The Aliens could have experimented with apes and changed their genes some million years back and produced the Human Race. Take heed you creationist and evolutionist, there is a third possibility, you could both be right. And it is quite obvious that the Aliens are still experimenting with the human race because of all the abduction reports.

      The Aliens transverse the heavens in huge, self-contained mother ships, ships big enough to recycle liquid, gas (air), food, and enough power to run for centuries, or at least be able to mine the fuel from asteroids or other worlds. The mother ship is so huge that they are unable to park it on a planet and shut-down the antigravity; it will collapse under its own weight. For them to shut down the power they have to park the ship in an orbit to keep it weightless. Of course, with the mother ship come all sort of scout, work- and exploratory vehicles, which are the ones we usually see flying around our landscape. The crew of the mother ship has to be fairly large and I can imagine them to sign on for most of their life. Even traveling at the speed of light, to explore space within 25 light-years of your own world will take a long time.

      These Aliens would truly be God’s to us humans. Their civilizations could be millions of years old, they know exactly how this macrocosm works. They might have seen other worlds come and go, (destroy themselves). They know the evolutionary steps cognition has to go through, and that is the crucial point for the Aliens, they want to protect our beautiful Universe from harm. After all, when you have become God, you don’t want to see your world being destroyed. And that brings us to the crux of religion.

      As an Alien, you don’t come to Earth very often but you like to keep track of the evolution on the planet when you fly by. That is especially true when you have a race (humanity) that show form of intelligence and have developed speech. And any evolving cognizance go through certain steps in their evolution, and at what point in their development is the human race. Is there some kind of barometer that will measure cognition? YES, what better way than to give them religion, and the more the better. With religion, you have intellectual concepts, abstract ideas which is totally emotional. And as long as we humans can’t see beyond our own nose, we will be in a perpetual battle on whose religion is the right one, or the best. “I worship the only true God”, - “my religion is better than yours”, - “I worship Creation itself”, - “the Self is the Way”. You fly by our Earth once; seeing all the different temples and all the killing and wars going on, any Alien realizes very fast how primitive humanity is. We (us humans) have no respect for life, ideas, other races and cultures, we are not masters of our emotions. Unable to govern ourselves, the Aliens have absolutely no wish to show themselves openly, we could emotionally not acknowledge another species.

      And that brings me to my final point; with us humans pointing a cannon at anything different from ourselves, the Aliens will not allow us to transverse the Universe. We have an idea of how the atom works, and if we ever develop spaceships using antigravity, they do not want us to explore space pointing a cannon at everything alien to us, especially if we don’t master our emotions.

      This article came about because of a story I read in UFO*BC (2*) in which three people were abducted. Tom, one of the humans abducted, asked the Aliens “ What is the true religion on earth?” to which the Alien answered, “There is no correct religion on earth”. So after all is said, what is the purpose of religions? As I mentioned at the beginning of this article, we have four major religions. One about God, another about Creation itself, one about Self, and one about the afterlife, covering more or less all aspects of the universe. If you want to be spiritual, why limit yourself to only a small part of religion. In order to become God, (in a spiritual term) you have to understand all the religions, no one is the correct one, you have to take them all on an equal term. Then, when you understand, when you become master of your self and your emotions, then you are at our next step in human evolution: Peace and Creativity, you become God, the Bible even says so.

    16. #91
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      I like that this person talks about the specifics of alien spacecraft without ever having seen one. Complete bullshit.

    17. #92
      The Blue dreamer bluefinger's Avatar
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      When all you have is hearsay as evidence, then one must think "Wait a minute". Science has fucking shown that evolution can work perfectly fine without external influences aside from the environment. Evidence is what sets the rest of Science and all this UFO stuff apart, of which the latter has little to no evidence going for it.

      You are building this elaborate idea on what is nothing but testimonials and hearsay. Hearsay is not a reliable source of information, and a lot of the people who do 'research' into this already have pre-conceived conclusions on the matter and go out in search for evidence in order to back-up the conclusion. Such a method is not science, nor is it a process that occurs in the courtroom.

      Also, with the whole scripture thing, so what? People make stories all the time, and more often than not, they all follow distinct patterns which are either ingrained into the human psyche or are part of cultural influences. Does it make the ideas of Aliens more credible? No.
      -Bluefinger v1.25- Enter the madness that are my dreams (DJ Update, non-LD)

      "When you reject the scientific method in order to believe what you want, you know that you have failed at life. Sorry, but there is no justification, no matter how wordy you make it."

      - Xei

      DILD: 6, WILD: 1

    18. #93
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      'The probability that we were created by aliens' is a completely meaningless phrase. We either were or we weren't, and there is no evidence that we were, so therefore we must accept that we weren't. Is that not right?

      I personally think alien life is incredibly likely in this universe for the obvious reasons, but there is clear evidence that evolution was a progression from very simple life forms to complex ones on this planet which rules out any higher powers really.

      There is as little point talking about this as there is talking about the possibility that there's an invisible flower pot floating above my head.
      I'm totally not saying that aliens created us/were involved in our past - in fact I personally think that's very unlikely. We're all entitled to our personal opinions, of course, but you can't say that something is TRUE. We don't know for sure, and that's what it boils down to. Feel free to say, "personally I don't think aliens were involved in our history", but don't say "Aliens were definitely not involved in our history", because we just don't know for sure.

      And since we don't know all the answers, I'm afraid this question is subject to probability until we know for certain.

    19. #94
      The Blue dreamer bluefinger's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick View Post
      I'm totally not saying that aliens created us/were involved in our past - in fact I personally think that's very unlikely. We're all entitled to our personal opinions, of course, but you can't say that something is TRUE. We don't know for sure, and that's what it boils down to. Feel free to say, "personally I don't think aliens were involved in our history", but don't say "Aliens were definitely not involved in our history", because we just don't know for sure.

      And since we don't know all the answers, I'm afraid this question is subject to probability until we know for certain.
      It isn't subject to probability because that's not how probabilities work. If it concerns the past, it either happened or it didn't. Therefore, if there is no evidence to show previous alien contact, then you have to take into account that lack of evidence for the claim means there wasn't any such contact. Now, you can apply probabilities to future events, which in that case you'd have a more plausible argument, BUT it does not work for past events.
      -Bluefinger v1.25- Enter the madness that are my dreams (DJ Update, non-LD)

      "When you reject the scientific method in order to believe what you want, you know that you have failed at life. Sorry, but there is no justification, no matter how wordy you make it."

      - Xei

      DILD: 6, WILD: 1

    20. #95
      Xei
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      I'm totally not saying that aliens created us/were involved in our past - in fact I personally think that's very unlikely. We're all entitled to our personal opinions, of course, but you can't say that something is TRUE. We don't know for sure, and that's what it boils down to. Feel free to say, "personally I don't think aliens were involved in our history", but don't say "Aliens were definitely not involved in our history", because we just don't know for sure.

      And since we don't know all the answers, I'm afraid this question is subject to probability until we know for certain.
      But when I say 'aliens weren't involved in our history', that is actually just a shortened form of the statement 'there is no empirical evidence that aliens were involved in our history and therefore the scientific method tells us that we must believe that they didn't'.

      Some statements are true and the others are false. To me it is pointless speculating that aliens visited us, because there is no proof. As I said before, we might as well talk about an invisible flowerpot floating above my head and its implications for humanity.

    21. #96
      Xei
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      I'm totally not saying that aliens created us/were involved in our past - in fact I personally think that's very unlikely. We're all entitled to our personal opinions, of course, but you can't say that something is TRUE. We don't know for sure, and that's what it boils down to. Feel free to say, "personally I don't think aliens were involved in our history", but don't say "Aliens were definitely not involved in our history", because we just don't know for sure.

      And since we don't know all the answers, I'm afraid this question is subject to probability until we know for certain.
      But when I say 'aliens weren't involved in our history', that is actually just a shortened form of the statement 'there is no empirical evidence that aliens were involved in our history and therefore the scientific method tells us that we must believe that they didn't'.

      Some statements are true and the others are false. To me it is pointless speculating that aliens visited us, because there is no proof. As I said before, we might as well talk about an invisible flowerpot floating above my head and its implications for humanity. There's just as much evidence for it.

    22. #97
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      Quote Originally Posted by bluefinger View Post
      It isn't subject to probability because that's not how probabilities work. If it concerns the past, it either happened or it didn't. Therefore, if there is no evidence to show previous alien contact, then you have to take into account that lack of evidence for the claim means there wasn't any such contact. Now, you can apply probabilities to future events, which in that case you'd have a more plausible argument, BUT it does not work for past events.
      But since we don't know what happened for sure, we can use probabilities. And unless we build a time machine, we will never know for certain.

    23. #98
      The Blue dreamer bluefinger's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick View Post
      But since we don't know what happened for sure, we can use probabilities. And unless we build a time machine, we will never know for certain.
      "We can't know for certain whether the sun really is fusing nuclei at it's core unless we go there ourselves and see the process happening!"

      If you can't realise the absurdity of the above sentence, then seriously, don't talk to me about probabilities.
      -Bluefinger v1.25- Enter the madness that are my dreams (DJ Update, non-LD)

      "When you reject the scientific method in order to believe what you want, you know that you have failed at life. Sorry, but there is no justification, no matter how wordy you make it."

      - Xei

      DILD: 6, WILD: 1

    24. #99
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      This argument is never going to end is it....

    25. #100
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick View Post
      But since we don't know what happened for sure, we can use probabilities. And unless we build a time machine, we will never know for certain.
      A probability is defined. Since for all we know, aliens may have seeded us, and that's all. No probabilities. The best we could say right now is a vague unlikely. Possible yes, but unlikely.

      Though the very rapid evolution of intelligence is questionable. My guess is that, at the point a species has the ability to take control of evolution, from there intelligence will grow leaps and bounds over short time-scales, and it will grow exponentially as well.

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