• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




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    1. #1
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      LD personal o1: Dream-saturated mind.

      This is one of my observations lately. Everytime i have Lucid dream, i have pretty nice and vivid recall. I feel somehow joined to dreams. And at the same time. It makes me no problems to concentrate on one idea when I perform WBTB. I trully dont know, whats the connection between this phenomena, but would like to find out.

      I call this state dream-saturated mind. It consists of following parts:
      1. Better dream recall
      2. Better connection to dreams
      3. OOB occurencies increased
      4. LD occurences increased {often in chain}
      5. No problems to wake up at night.

      --Did you ever had dream-saturated mind?
      --Hows your experiences, when you have LD night?
      --How would you describe your state of DSM?
      --{speculative} What are the factors (in your opinion), creating that kind brain state?

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      i have had nights kinda like this. nights with like 5 LDs in a row, and much better recall. This didnt happen when i did a wbtb though. Everything felt like a normal night. Just with an explosion of LDs out of nowhere was the only difference i noticed sorry im not being much help here XD
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      Quote Originally Posted by adraw View Post
      This is one of my observations lately. Everytime i have Lucid dream, i have pretty nice and vivid recall. I feel somehow joined to dreams. And at the same time. It makes me no problems to concentrate on one idea when I perform WBTB. I trully dont know, whats the connection between this phenomena, but would like to find out.

      I call this state dream-saturated mind. It consists of following parts:
      1. Better dream recall
      2. Better connection to dreams
      3. OOB occurencies increased
      4. LD occurences increased {often in chain}
      5. No problems to wake up at night.

      --Did you ever had dream-saturated mind?
      --Hows your experiences, when you have LD night?
      --How would you describe your state of DSM?
      --{speculative} What are the factors (in your opinion), creating that kind brain state?
      its called you are a natural dreamer, same for me. i can chain dreams without even trying. I could chain lucids even if i wanted to. my dreams are so weird that i just never choose to be lucid.

      I also have an ability that most people here don't. i automaticly know when i am dreaming. i can't explain how it works, it is just something i do.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Lordalmar View Post
      its called you are a natural dreamer, same for me. i can chain dreams without even trying. I could chain lucids even if i wanted to. my dreams are so weird that i just never choose to be lucid.

      I also have an ability that most people here don't. i automaticly know when i am dreaming. i can't explain how it works, it is just something i do.
      Thats superb response. I would add one thing, to move deeper into the topic. You said, that you have the ability many people dont have... Maybe yes, maybe not. I know the experience. My lucids were never from reality check, but from that special kind of DSM. I thing thats enough to awake lucidity in person. Hmm. But whats that. Awakening of critical faculty, some chemical disbalance, or just feeling of not wishing. Please add into this topic. This seems to be core of my experience. This special state. If you know it, or if you want to know more about it. Tell me. I would like to inform you or be informed equally.

      Enjoyed till now. \
      Adraw

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      freefire FreeOne's Avatar
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      this DSM definatly seems the key when you think about it. There are the nights where you have lucids for no reason at all, then there are nights where you are doing something so out of the ordinary and crazy like when your face looks like a horse in the mirror, or you see someone with super powers, or people tell you to reality check. And you still miss becoming lucid!

      Thats why i prefer WILD. no DSM or whatever it is needed.
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      Quote Originally Posted by freefire View Post
      this DSM definatly seems the key when you think about it. There are the nights where you have lucids for no reason at all, then there are nights where you are doing something so out of the ordinary and crazy like when your face looks like a horse in the mirror, or you see someone with super powers, or people tell you to reality check. And you still miss becoming lucid!

      Thats why i prefer WILD. no DSM or whatever it is needed.
      Thats why i prefer to learn WILD to. But i thing, thats not the only thing. DSM is a special state of mind. I am wondering if it could be learned. This could be the question for dream guider of for lucid naturals.

      I thing, that This state {or state like this} is needed to perform wild successfully. The state of full concentration. But at the same time. The state of carelessness.

      I know it can be achieved only with experience. But is writing about it not a part of that experience? So we should move further. Specify it. Look at it. Make it naked.

      And now. I was in search for mechanism to induce DSM. Not Lucid dreams. Just DSM. Becouse i wish to remember my dreams. Wether they are Lucid dream or not. And DSM helps with it.

      Now two scenarios:
      >>> I wake up fully conscious and i directly remember my dream. No problems. Recall is fantastic. Dreams are vivid

      >>> I wake up conscious, but my head is empty. I can only think about "tabula rasa". Nothing happening.

      Where is the difference. Are you sure I shouldnt do anything at the evening?

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      Where is the difference. Are you sure I shouldnt do anything at the evening?
      Nope. Im not sure.

      The thing is, i know what you are talking about. I have experienced it. But i, like you have no idea what causes it. What causes our recall to go from very great, to very poor in just one days difference? It must be a state of mind, cause something physical wouldnt really help the memory much. Are we just more conscious on these great recall days? focused, in control of our thoughts and surroundings, and do we just know whats going on in our head and around us on these days? I dont know. I havent ever speculated the difference between the good recall nights and the good LD nights from the bad recall nights and the bad LD nights. I couldnt be much help on the mass LDs a night part either, as in DILD has left me a long time ago

      But i can however help with the recall part. Recall must be hooked in with this DSM, and if we can solve the easier problem of what makes good recall, then we can move onto the bigger and better stuff.

      Maybe we shouldnt be looking at just the evening. I mean what is one thing everyone here agrees will get your recall to go up? a Dream Journal. And when do we write in our dream journal? In the morning. Maybe its the mornings we should be focusing on. Or maybe we should focus on both evenings and mornings.

      And look up the effects of B6 on dreams. B6 doesnt really help with lucidity (well for me anyway) but it helps with recall and vividity alot. Why is this? what does it do to the brain? and could we mimic the effect without B6?

      so many questions lol. we should probably get some more people in on this.
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      wow this is a very interesting topic. I fully agree with you guys about DSM however I don't believe it happens to only the "naturals". Everyone here has had nights where they have so many dreams they can't count them and then nights where they hardly remember a thing. I think this is something to be researched...
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      Quote Originally Posted by freefire View Post
      Nope. Im not sure.

      The thing is, i know what you are talking about. I have experienced it. But i, like you have no idea what causes it. What causes our recall to go from very great, to very poor in just one days difference? It must be a state of mind, cause something physical wouldnt really help the memory much. Are we just more conscious on these great recall days? focused, in control of our thoughts and surroundings, and do we just know whats going on in our head and around us on these days? I dont know. I havent ever speculated the difference between the good recall nights and the good LD nights from the bad recall nights and the bad LD nights. I couldnt be much help on the mass LDs a night part either, as in DILD has left me a long time ago

      But i can however help with the recall part. Recall must be hooked in with this DSM, and if we can solve the easier problem of what makes good recall, then we can move onto the bigger and better stuff.

      Maybe we shouldnt be looking at just the evening. I mean what is one thing everyone here agrees will get your recall to go up? a Dream Journal. And when do we write in our dream journal? In the morning. Maybe its the mornings we should be focusing on. Or maybe we should focus on both evenings and mornings.

      And look up the effects of B6 on dreams. B6 doesnt really help with lucidity (well for me anyway) but it helps with recall and vividity alot. Why is this? what does it do to the brain? and could we mimic the effect without B6?

      so many questions lol. we should probably get some more people in on this.
      Of course we should. Maybe we are pointing just wrong. Maybe it is really dependent on too many factors. but maybe not. Maybe we are thinking too much about it. Maybe we wont be able to change it anyhow. But i think, we should first take as many observations of this state as possible.

      So if i may suggest we should now discuss what makes up the DSM state. What does it consists of. So my points are { i am repeating myself}
      1. Better dream recall
      2. Better connection to dreams
      3. OOB occurencies increased
      4. LD occurences increased {often in chain}
      5. No problems to wake up at night.


      I would add one word which comes directly to my mind. I would say...
      6. Freshness.

      Full of internal energy, yet somehow still. Interesting state.
      And as i came to the word freshness. It is about the internal vitality and maybe about supplies of energy we have. Maybe it has something in common with how we fall asleep. I can clearly remember falling asleep with peace that nights. {sorry about my english}

      Now to your response freefire: First. Thank you a lot. Second. The recall part. Well should be worth experimental research. {These days. I have poor recall, so this resarch fits my needs}.

      I will tell, how I will do my research in next post:
      Who else is in?

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      Now to that research:

      1. I plan to do evening relaxation which will take about 20 minutes, lying on my back, while listening to music from sky FM. {new age}. This exercise always cleans up my mind and makes me tired. I always lye on a floor, so i dont fall asleep.

      2. Next would be i move to my bed, my mind should be pretty relaxed and body should be pretty stressed about lying on a floor. So i should fall asleep pretty fast. Mantra I will repeate will sound I will wake up after a dream

      3. I will do a WBTB and see what comes....

      4. Will report here.

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      What fascinates me about recall is that there seems to be a two second time period where you remember nothing after waking; no matter how vivid the LD. Even in my most OBE type LDs when I choose to wake up there is that two second feeling of "oh crap, where did it go?" then I slowly feel it being impressed on conscious memory; and in such a horrid manner. The reality and beauty of the dream is not preserved as well as one would like in this process.

      This leads me to believe that there are two kinds of memory involved; though I could not even begin to explain it. You would think that because one is conscious, that conscious memory would be imprinted as the LD progresses, but this is not the case until after we wake up. What gives? It is almost as if the brain is no match for the consciousness. The best recall then, is generated by desire to remember and zero loss of time in doing so. The more the seconds go by, the more is lost to the subconscious; perhaps forever.

      That aside, I think the best way to raise the critical faculty in dreams is through Dream Yoga. It is a constant awareness that life is a dream; and as such the dream world immediately becomes more vivid and fools you less:

      http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=34263

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      Quote Originally Posted by adraw View Post
      Now to that research:

      1. I plan to do evening relaxation which will take about 20 minutes, lying on my back, while listening to music from sky FM. {new age}. This exercise always cleans up my mind and makes me tired. I always lye on a floor, so i dont fall asleep.

      2. Next would be i move to my bed, my mind should be pretty relaxed and body should be pretty stressed about lying on a floor. So i should fall asleep pretty fast. Mantra I will repeate will sound I will wake up after a dream

      3. I will do a WBTB and see what comes....

      4. Will report here.
      What exactly Are trying to prove here?
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      I used to have that sort of mindset, I guess. Where I was obsessed with dream recall, meditation, and WILDs. For whatever reason, it subsided. I found myself still highly mindful of dreams, but not as a hobby. More as a habit or a ritual. Dreaming is one of my qualities, be they lucid or not, all are important.

      But now, I have a different type of saturation. A saturation with waking life, if you will (they are two sides of the same coin, after all). I find myself using dream-immersion techniques in real life. Out of the blue I'll become conscious of details in all five senses, even repressed emotion. As in a dream, I can twist my perception and create contentment out of thin-air. A handy skill, if you ask me. I am now as happy to exist in this way as I am happy when in a lucid dream.
      Abraxas

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      Quote Originally Posted by lespaulsRcoo View Post
      What exactly Are trying to prove here?
      Not exactly a proof. It should be an experiment, how mental freshness while falling asleep affects mentioned state of mine. And it seems to be working somehow. Now i am in a middle of WBTB and could remember vivid details of my dream, becouse i didnt feel tired. Pretty interesting. I should make it more often to see the variations of this experience.

      Thanx for asking.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Abra View Post
      I used to have that sort of mindset, I guess. Where I was obsessed with dream recall, meditation, and WILDs. For whatever reason, it subsided. I found myself still highly mindful of dreams, but not as a hobby. More as a habit or a ritual. Dreaming is one of my qualities, be they lucid or not, all are important.

      But now, I have a different type of saturation. A saturation with waking life, if you will (they are two sides of the same coin, after all). I find myself using dream-immersion techniques in real life. Out of the blue I'll become conscious of details in all five senses, even repressed emotion. As in a dream, I can twist my perception and create contentment out of thin-air. A handy skill, if you ask me. I am now as happy to exist in this way as I am happy when in a lucid dream.
      Pretty nice outcome of your LD experiences. It seems you are building your sense of reality.

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      Hmm... This is a very interesting topic. I too have had nights like this where I'd have 4 LD's in a row for no reason. The closest thing that I can equate your DSM to is the "zone" that athletes talk about all the time. Where your at the peak of your performance totaly focased and such. Maybe DSM is being in the zone while lucid dreaming where your mind is perfectly intent on becoming lucid. Now if these two phenomena are similar to you should be able to research what causes a zone mindset and that may give you a place to start some serious work in finding out what DSM is and how to induce it. I think your experiment on mental freshness and its effects on DSM also kinda ties in with my observation because I seem to remember about the zone always being accompanied by some sort of mental focas like meditation. Hope that helps you
      Last edited by Spiderman_859; 01-20-2008 at 07:46 AM.

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      This is a really interesting topic, I've had this happen a few times as well, it would be interesting to see if there's any pattern to it after all.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Spiderman_859 View Post
      Hmm... This is a very interesting topic. I too have had nights like this where I'd have 4 LD's in a row for no reason. The closest thing that I can equate your DSM to is the "zone" that athletes talk about all the time. Where your at the peak of your performance totaly focased and such. Maybe DSM is being in the zone while lucid dreaming where your mind is perfectly intent on becoming lucid. Now if these two phenomena are similar to you should be able to research what causes a zone mindset and that may give you a place to start some serious work in finding out what DSM is and how to induce it. I think your experiment on mental freshness and its effects on DSM also kinda ties in with my observation because I seem to remember about the zone always being accompanied by some sort of mental focas like meditation. Hope that helps you
      Wooo. Thats fantastic. I am doing martial arts. And this state of mind has lots in common. I never thought that way. But yess it makes sense. It is something what sometimes happens in a middle of a training. When mind feels to be on peak.

      It has lots in common with motivation and happiness I thing. And as "proven" {sorry to use that word in this context}. By my latest experiment.

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      Quote Originally Posted by adraw View Post
      Now to that research:

      1. I plan to do evening relaxation which will take about 20 minutes, lying on my back, while listening to music from sky FM. {new age}. This exercise always cleans up my mind and makes me tired. I always lye on a floor, so i dont fall asleep.

      2. Next would be i move to my bed, my mind should be pretty relaxed and body should be pretty stressed about lying on a floor. So i should fall asleep pretty fast. Mantra I will repeate will sound I will wake up after a dream

      3. I will do a WBTB and see what comes....

      4. Will report here.
      1. OK. Here are the results for my "kindof" experiment.
      I made that relaxation technique for about 15 minutes. Music from sky fm. Lying on a floor. My mind got somehow aligned this time. And was opened to much, much more positive "suggestions". I even read my journal, which filled me with joy. And fell asleep pretty sure about the success {last nights I was never sure about anything}.

      2. I moved into bed and done as described

      3. I woke up having a nightmare or such a thing. But still pretty happy about the results. Then i was awake for about two hours spending my time on DV chat. After a WBTB i wrote one dream and then fall back asleep. Then. When i woke up in the morning. I could remember one fragment of dream. It was pretty an interesting fragment. As i was writing it in my journal, it started to invoke other memmories, so it resembled into seven dream scenes.

      Now i know. That the relaxation at the evening opened my mind to further experimentations. And that it gave me sort of DSM. Still. It will need at least one more proof from my side and maybe some proof from different sides. So we can be sure about the effects of evening preparation to DSM.

      Any constructive feedback welcome. And dont forget to ask question. We all gain more when asking...

      Thx till now.

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      Great I'm happy to help you out a little. I hope that you can really get this thing nailed down. Tell me if you need some one for feedback or a for a test subject. Its really promising that you are already making progress after 19 posts good luck.

      "Nothing is true, everything is permitted."-Altair

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      Quote Originally Posted by Spiderman_859 View Post
      Great I'm happy to help you out a little. I hope that you can really get this thing nailed down. Tell me if you need some one for feedback or a for a test subject. Its really promising that you are already making progress after 19 posts good luck.
      Glad You responded in that fashion. It would be superb if you thinked out some method how to achieve that state. Maybe some different views on this topic could prove helpful.

      /// now litttle aside.
      I have had one more observation. As far as i know. My mind was tired and I moved it into clearer state. I felt warm, so i went out to breath some fresh air at the evening, just before lying down. This state made me feel wonderful, i felt, that my body is starting to feel good. And that made as a result some psychological feedback.

      I cannot absolutise now, so I will make another attempt in such fassion today. And will be happy to present results next day.

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      Hi. There. I am bringin' some new results from research field. Well. I have some interesting info to share. I tried the same experiment as the last night. And it seems to be working for me. As long as i prepare my mind for good sleep. It comes and it brings recall positive DSM. I didnt report any lucid dreams, but i mentioned earlier, I am not aming at lucid dreams right now. Just the recall seems to be important.

      I am planning to continue my research on DSM. Plan to do the experiments few more times. And plan to move on with the research. Any suggestions would be welcome.

      P.S: I thank you for your superb tips. If you have more. Let me know about them.

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      now that i think of it, it has to be my personality that is whats needed. i am a logic/order freak. and ALL my dreams seem to be the complete oppisite of my personality.

      I keep my personality when i dream, so it is not any challenge for me to be lucid when i want. I will try tonight, and see what happens. I can even chain dream anytime i want, so i could chain lucids no problem.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Lordalmar View Post
      now that i think of it, it has to be my personality that is whats needed. i am a logic/order freak. and ALL my dreams seem to be the complete oppisite of my personality.

      I keep my personality when i dream, so it is not any challenge for me to be lucid when i want. I will try tonight, and see what happens. I can even chain dream anytime i want, so i could chain lucids no problem.
      I am not sure what you mean by the impact of personality. Could you please specify further?

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      Quote Originally Posted by adraw View Post
      I am not sure what you mean by the impact of personality. Could you please specify further?
      its easy, i can put things together piece by piece, instead of looking at the big picture. Since my mind pieces things together, i can notice things before others.

      its the same in my dreams, the things others would not even think about i would notice easily. its about logic and observation. using both you can see though almost anything even in a dream.

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