LD personal o2: WILD happens, when we learn how to fall asleep consciously

[adraw]

Before i started my wild attemts. I could fall asleep withouth problems. After i started. I was nearly successfull. Maybe becouse i didnt add to much thought into it. After some unsuccessfull attempts, i found out, that i cannot fall asleep well. And now. I read one topic and idea came to me: We shouldnt learn how to remain awake, we should learn how to fall asleep. We should learn how to consciously shut ourselves down. I know, that this is written everywhere in this forums. But lot of people {including me} think, that we should remain awake. What do you think?

[FreeOne]

We shouldnt learn how to remain awake, we should learn how to fall asleep. i agree

[Noin]

Where's the manual for that

[Yoshu]

Nice, that's actually a really good idea.....how the hell didn't anyone say before Anywayz....now you have to figure out how! If you get any news on this please PM me Thanks Yoshu

[Noin]

Alright, in order to figure out how to fall asleep, we need to know what falling asleep is. Know thine enemy, that is. So from my experience falling asleep is lying down, closing eyes, and waiting, next thing i know is im either in a dream or awake in the next morning. But what the hell happens in the part we don't remember, the part we're just about to fall asleep. grah

[Abra]

This is a perfect phrase for those that find themselves restless during WILD attempts--myself included. For those that end up falling asleep too soon, just invert your suggestion, and it will apply to them, too!

[FreeOne]

how the hell didn't anyone say before i did figure it out

[CiD]

Alright, in order to figure out how to fall asleep, we need to know what falling asleep is. Know thine enemy, that is. So from my experience falling asleep is lying down, closing eyes, and waiting, next thing i know is im either in a dream or awake in the next morning. But what the hell happens in the part we don't remember, the part we're just about to fall asleep. grah Our memory shuts down! Had to say it. Anyway, Que the psych major.

[Yoshu]

i did figure it out Oooooo, sorry, didn't realise But yer, how are you ment to realise when your body is shutting down. We need to have some way of realising that we are going into the sleep world. Any tips on what you guys do just as you fall asleep, and I mean literally JUST as your about to fall asleep? Hopefully we can crack this one, or one of you lot Speak soon Byee

[adraw]

i did figure it out Sorry about that. I should mention the topic for better reference. In future i wont be so selfish.

[adraw]

Oooooo, sorry, didn't realise But yer, how are you ment to realise when your body is shutting down. We need to have some way of realising that we are going into the sleep world. Any tips on what you guys do just as you fall asleep, and I mean literally JUST as your about to fall asleep? Hopefully we can crack this one, or one of you lot Speak soon Byee I think we cannot crack it. We will have to fight our own fight, till we realise {i meen deeply realise}, that it has no sense to fight. And we do it on our own. Maybe the worst quesion is to ask: HOW?. As if we didnt do it every night. What real importance has an answer in forums for us? We may acknowledge and taken it for a good hint, but no more. We should ask: WHY NOT? Its all about the new culture. We want it now. And hola. I know. Becouse i found myself talking this way last night on DV CHAT. But as soon as we align ourselves, we find out that all the techniques are simple. But we actually dont want to perform them as they are written. We want to speed them up. And we are ruining our sleep. And ..... Whats your opinion on this mesh?

[Yoshu]

Yer I get what you mean, and that has actually got me thinking, what if everyone did everything slower, things would be so much easier. Also I think no-one should set time limits on themselves as it will just lead to dissapointment. Thanks for the insight adraw! Peace, Yoshu.

[CiD]

Ever get really close to falling asleep and suddenly be 100% awake? I get this every now and then, and it normally feels like I'm falling off of my bed even if I'm in the center. It usually scares the shit out of me, and my Sometimes ill kick my feet as I become alert, as some sort of reaction to the feeling of falling like im going to catch myself. Anywho, almost every time this happens to me I can recall what I was thinking before I became alert. It is usually some sort of crazy random thought that I don't remember thinking before I fall asleep. Most of the time it is someone telling me something that would shock me and then I become aware and realize that what they told me was bullshit. The only one I remember is the most recent one (This would make a good section in dream journal). I was imagining that I was skateboarding. For some reason I am almost certain there was some sort of visualization to this. Anyway, I attempted something simple and I fucked up the motion and the board went behind me in the air. Then I became alert and got that feeling of falling. I looked at the clock and it wasn't more than 10 minutes after I last looked at it as is usually the case when this happens. From these experiences I can conclude that they happen in the very beginnings of sleep, and the sudden shock is a result of the reversal the shutting down of some of the bodies functions. The feeling of falling is probably an unexpected return of the perception of gravity. My guess is that before we sleep our thought pattern becomes infinately random and our imagination sort of runs wild. I wish I could remember some more of these since I have been experiencing them for as long as I can remember. The problem here is that we cannot conciously be aware of this state without accidently becoming 100% aware and awake. Actually, the most recent one happened while I was listening to Idoser's Lucid Dream dose. This was the worst one. I don't remember what I was thinking but it was the biggest shock in the world. Since Idoser runs off a computer, it has a tendency to glitch (for example, the sound may stop for a split second and make some other odd noise). I fell into this state of half dreaming and half awake then it glitched. This was enough to bring me back reality and it wasn't fun. My heart started racing so fast and I broke into a pretty intense sweat. I wish I could describe in some other way cause my words don't do it justice. It was intensely shitty in a scary sort of way. That's the best I can do. Glitches by themselves can scare the shit out of me. Considering that I am blasting white noise into my ears, a glitch can be quite disturbing. Towards the end of the lucid dream file, I can normally control the volume of it with my mind. It is possible that this is just one of the auditory hallucinations associated with listening to long durations of white noise at high volume. But whenever I let my wander and stop focusing on it, I can reduce the volume to about 25% of what it was originally. I believe this may have some link to lucidity so I try to practice this when it starts to happen.

[adraw]

Ever get really close to falling asleep and suddenly be 100% awake? I get this every now and then, and it normally feels like I'm falling off of my bed even if I'm in the center. It usually scares the shit out of me, and my Sometimes ill kick my feet as I become alert, as some sort of reaction to the feeling of falling like im going to catch myself. Anywho, almost every time this happens to me I can recall what I was thinking before I became alert. It is usually some sort of crazy random thought that I don't remember thinking before I fall asleep. Most of the time it is someone telling me something that would shock me and then I become aware and realize that what they told me was bullshit. The only one I remember is the most recent one (This would make a good section in dream journal). I was imagining that I was skateboarding. For some reason I am almost certain there was some sort of visualization to this. Anyway, I attempted something simple and I fucked up the motion and the board went behind me in the air. Then I became alert and got that feeling of falling. I looked at the clock and it wasn't more than 10 minutes after I last looked at it as is usually the case when this happens. From these experiences I can conclude that they happen in the very beginnings of sleep, and the sudden shock is a result of the reversal the shutting down of some of the bodies functions. The feeling of falling is probably an unexpected return of the perception of gravity. My guess is that before we sleep our thought pattern becomes infinately random and our imagination sort of runs wild. I wish I could remember some more of these since I have been experiencing them for as long as I can remember. The problem here is that we cannot conciously be aware of this state without accidently becoming 100% aware and awake. Actually, the most recent one happened while I was listening to Idoser's Lucid Dream dose. This was the worst one. I don't remember what I was thinking but it was the biggest shock in the world. Since Idoser runs off a computer, it has a tendency to glitch (for example, the sound may stop for a split second and make some other odd noise). I fell into this state of half dreaming and half awake then it glitched. This was enough to bring me back reality and it wasn't fun. My heart started racing so fast and I broke into a pretty intense sweat. I wish I could describe in some other way cause my words don't do it justice. It was intensely shitty in a scary sort of way. That's the best I can do. Glitches by themselves can scare the shit out of me. Considering that I am blasting white noise into my ears, a glitch can be quite disturbing. Towards the end of the lucid dream file, I can normally control the volume of it with my mind. It is possible that this is just one of the auditory hallucinations associated with listening to long durations of white noise at high volume. But whenever I let my wander and stop focusing on it, I can reduce the volume to about 25% of what it was originally. I believe this may have some link to lucidity so I try to practice this when it starts to happen. I dont know, if i get you well, but maybe. I am not wrong if i say, that this is one of the experiences we all have pretty often. I can remember the state, when i was falling asleep and then suddenly some noise came. Pretty scary experience. It is pretty a big shock. But what may couse this. You gave some explanation, but still. What couses us to react so much when a little noise comes. {I guess its not only about noise. It is about pretty each unexpected auditory change, maybe even not auditory} I read some text about our senses working much better when falling asleep. I dont know, why this happens. Maybe it has some link to our deep past, when we have to be pretty carefull where we actually fall asllep {eat or be eaten rule}. . Who knows. This topic starts to be pretty interesting. We moved from falling asleep into half dream state. I guess its good and it isnt too off topic.

[CiD]

I wish I could find this reply someone gave on another topic. Something to do with why children always have the falling dream. Something about entering a dreamstate sets something off in your brain to make you think you are falling. Maybe I should take up pyschology. This could be the affect that I, personally, get. To be honest the affect that I get doesn't always result from some external stimulus. Something in my head doesn't click right and I wake up feeling like I'm falling. This never happens to me in deep sleep. Always when I'm in that half and half state. Any pysch people know anything about this stage? Would probably help the original question. I read some text about our senses working much better when falling asleep. I dont know, why this happens. Maybe it has some link to our deep past, when we have to be pretty carefull where we actually fall asllep {eat or be eaten rule}. That is interesting. I didn't know that. Good thought though, I bet it is in our genes somewhere. I wonder if it is in our genes to throw poo at people, too?

[Yoshu]

Well, the simple explanantion for our senses becoming more aware when we fall asleep, is because when you lose one of your senses, in the sleeping case/dreaming case, you lose your sight (with the eys closed an everyhting) all the other ones 'get' that senses 'power'. I'm explaining this really childishly for all the teenagers on the forums but that is basically it. We all experiance enhanced senses when falling asleep because we become more aware. By the way guys and girls, I was looking on another thread and a really good RC if you don't want to move your physical body is to block your nasal passages with your muscles. Hope this info help you Yoshu

[adraw]

Well, the simple explanantion for our senses becoming more aware when we fall asleep, is because when you lose one of your senses, in the sleeping case/dreaming case, you lose your sight (with the eys closed an everyhting) all the other ones 'get' that senses 'power'. I'm explaining this really childishly for all the teenagers on the forums but that is basically it. We all experiance enhanced senses when falling asleep because we become more aware. By the way guys and girls, I was looking on another thread and a really good RC if you don't want to move your physical body is to block your nasal passages with your muscles. Hope this info help you Yoshu So..I sense some slight contradiction {or maybe two different factors of enhanced sensing} in your words: 1. Closed eyes - diminished sight. As a compensation. Mind enhances other senses 2. More aware = better senses. Do you mean that this two factors {compensation and awareness} are making enhanced senses phaenomaena? Thx for response.

[adraw]

I wish I could find this reply someone gave on another topic. Something to do with why children always have the falling dream. Something about entering a dreamstate sets something off in your brain to make you think you are falling. Maybe I should take up pyschology. This could be the affect that I, personally, get. To be honest the affect that I get doesn't always result from some external stimulus. Something in my head doesn't click right and I wake up feeling like I'm falling. This never happens to me in deep sleep. Always when I'm in that half and half state. Any pysch people know anything about this stage? Would probably help the original question. That is interesting. I didn't know that. Good thought though, I bet it is in our genes somewhere. I wonder if it is in our genes to throw poo at people, too? About what I wrote in upper topic. I'd better not be absolute about the history. Was just a suggestion. Maybe it is so, or maybe the right relyes somewhere else. Who knows. Maybe we should concentrate, how we can utilise this knowledge in our attempts. Any suggestions?

[Yoshu]

So..I sense some slight contradiction {or maybe two different factors of enhanced sensing} in your words: 1. Closed eyes - diminished sight. As a compensation. Mind enhances other senses 2. More aware = better senses. Do you mean that this two factors {compensation and awareness} are making enhanced senses phaenomaena? Thx for response. Yes, compensation and awareness are making enhanced senses phaenomaena, that is what how I understand it all but you just put it in better words Also I have no idea on how to use the knowledge in our attempts to 'make a breakthrough'. Maybe if we could find a way to perhaps, make our bodies less aware of these senses? Hopefully it helped, and maybe you should start a new thread with a title that actually states what we have come onto nw, (just a suggestion) Thanks, Yoshu EDIT: and yer, slight cintradiction, didn't notice, sorry!

[adraw]

Yes, compensation and awareness are making enhanced senses phaenomaena, that is what how I understand it all but you just put it in better words Also I have no idea on how to use the knowledge in our attempts to 'make a breakthrough'. Maybe if we could find a way to perhaps, make our bodies less aware of these senses? Hopefully it helped, and maybe you should start a new thread with a title that actually states what we have come onto nw, (just a suggestion) Thanks, Yoshu EDIT: and yer, slight cintradiction, didn't notice, sorry! OK. I am making another thread about this topic right now. Still not sure where to post it. We could somehow support research forum as it is not getting enought attention, but i would first make a starter post in this forum and lets see what happens. NOW. LETS FOCUS ON OUR ACTUAL TOPIC: Learning about how to fall asleep consciously. Let me summarise. where we have come so far {for those, who are only starting with this thread} We started talking about the question Noin was interested in what happens, in part of falling asleep process when we are not conscious. Abra saw some use of the question for users who are restless while falling asleep. Yoshu initiated discussion about a way, how find out, when we are asleep. I tried to move focus of the discussion from HOW? into WHY NOT? After this change, discussion resembled into point, that if we do things slower and dont care about the results, things would be better {Yoshu} CID mentioned a state, when we move from nearly asleep into 100% awake suddenly. This led the discussion to interesting topic of senses in half dream state, where Yoshu, CID and me tried to put our knowledge on this topic. We ended the discussion with recognition, that we dont really know how it works {but there were points, which might actually have something in common} Now after the summarisation. Lets move deeper into the topic a little. So we are in a middle of discussion about transitional state between reality and dreams. I would suggest moving on, and answering some of new questions : 1. What is the level of wakefullness, when we shouldnt even try to wild 2. What to do, when WILD attempts makes us more awake, then sleepy? {whats wrong with the attempt} 3. You would see a noob in WILD. Imagine some steps, how to bring him to fall asleep consciosly {optional} If you have some suggestions for more questions, please ask them. More questions, more answers. Thx.

[Yoshu]

Nice summary adraw, now in answer to your questions : We cannot really 'say' the level of awakeness, we should first figure out (going back to the original goal) what causes us to fall asleep, then we can put them in categories. I think a WILD attempt that makes you more awake than sleepy is caused by your REM cycles, WILD's seem to only work (for most people) after about the fourth REM period. So if you try to WILD before then (it will be different considering the people) your brain will be almost saying "Oh my god, why did you wake me up, I have been resting". But after the 3rd or 4th REM period it's like "Oh well I have had enough sleep but I might aswell stay shut down and do what they say!" To answer number three I think anyone who actaully wants to initiate WILD should read Clairity's WILD Technique! http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=37749 And as adraw said, any other questions and we (well atleast I) will ahppily answer them to the best of my knowledge. Peace, Yoshu!

[adraw]

Nice summary adraw, now in answer to your questions : We cannot really 'say' the level of awakeness, we should first figure out (going back to the original goal) what causes us to fall asleep, then we can put them in categories. I think a WILD attempt that makes you more awake than sleepy is caused by your REM cycles, WILD's seem to only work (for most people) after about the fourth REM period. So if you try to WILD before then (it will be different considering the people) your brain will be almost saying "Oh my god, why did you wake me up, I have been resting". But after the 3rd or 4th REM period it's like "Oh well I have had enough sleep but I might aswell stay shut down and do what they say!" To answer number three I think anyone who actaully wants to initiate WILD should read Clairity's WILD Technique! http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=37749 And as adraw said, any other questions and we (well atleast I) will ahppily answer them to the best of my knowledge. Peace, Yoshu! Thats nice. Well I like, how you actually rephrased my second questionl. After the end of this topic, i will write another set of question which seem to be more accurate than first ones. I read wild technique, you mentioned. But i guess i will read it once more. It seems to be more and more informative each time i read it. Now to what i like the most about your topic. The rem stages. Hmm. This interests me further. We should research what happens, when we awake in different parts of night. I guess we will need expert help. So now. The questions rephrased and corrected: 1. What causes us to fall asleep. {Which factors cause increasing of wakefullness and which decreasing?} 2. REM phase happens in time interval. What happens when we take a WILD attempt at the start of REM phase, what in the middle of REM and what after the REM period? Whats the difference in what we might experience? 3. And thats pretty much all. I thing, this questions seem to be less abstract, and should be easier to answer. Thx again for your patience and answers.

[Yoshu]

Thanks, I like it when I get compliments There is something you must learn about me (going straight off subject) I reply to posts very quickly between 4pm and 9pm (GMT UK) Back to the point, yes, we will need expert help in the different stages of REM compared to WILDing. Also, I had a thought, if we look at some examples of things that are made to make us go to sleep such as , drugs (but I don't want to do drugs for a LD) and hypnotism, basically concentration and mental forcing is used in hypnotism so how can we concentrate that much? Any answers to that would be appreciated Thanks, Yoshu

[CiD]

I will volunteer for any experiments involving drugs. Would like to discuss but need to catch up on work. I will just point out useful information on the homepage. From this information, I will try and do some experiments with Idoser. Idoser has an alpha, beta, delta and gamme files.

[Yoshu]

Nice although we don't want any drug charges brought against dreamviews I-doser (know I know what it is) looks quite cool and so I am downlaoding now of a website, *cough* www.download.com *cough* Sorry if I don't reply much in the next few days as I have too much coursework and stuff, for those who are not english it is basically higher level homework!! Yoshu