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    Thread: fogelbise's Dream Control and Stabilization Workbook

    1. #1
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      fogelbise's Dream Control and Stabilization Workbook

      I would like to use this as a place to compile my DC&S notes but I also welcome comments and suggestions. I will lean more towards my stabilization notes at this time.

      Pre-DEILD

      From my Something Every Newbie Should Read IMO thread:

      Sageous said something that helped me on a number of occasions, when he said: "For DILDer's, and everyone else, the process is there as well: simply continue paying attention to your environment after the dream fades, and your current REM cycle ends, and do so (here's the tricky part) without following your body's normal path to awakening..." quoted from this post: NREM reality checks . It just clicked for me in a way that helped me realize that I should not expect that I am waking up and it helped me build more successes from any fades or trips to the void. I previously had success extending dreams through focusing on DEILD and also just through the suggestion of there being a thing called the void, but I am currently still using the mindset that I may not have to wake quite yet even if it feels like I am losing the dream...simply hovering in the space between dreams. Vigilantly watching for false awakenings is another method, but the mindset of staying in dreamland and not expecting to "exit" as in DEILDs seems to stick in my head with much less effort. I think that I was affected early in my adult lucid dreaming practice by reading about other people's brief lucid dreams, despite the experiences of my first lucid dream in childhood or decades later of my first lucid dream in adulthood, which were not super short. (Maybe I can say that more succinctly later.)

      Recap of Stabilizing (as in staying in dreamland) methods mentioned above:
      • Pre-DEILD primary method - not following the path back to my waking body
      • expecting the void rather than waking
      • expecting an FA rather than an actual awakening


      Also used in past:




      Spoiler for Non-DC&S notes that were helpful to me:
      Re-review DJ's 5/4 to 5/24/14 so far.

      I am doing my version of SSILD and periodically break off from it to attempt to drift toward sleep but returned to the cycles several times. / Weirdness induction. / Anyway I start to nudge on the vibrations but then remembered my plan to remain patient through them and I can tell that they are the stronger kind, the pre-dream kind. From: http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/fogelbise/5-19-5-24-time-stopping-dild-romantic-girl-friday-session-wild-57931/

      Got a great balance of self-awareness and dream environment attention and vividness! / Assuming possible HH's are HH's / From: 5/4 & 5/5 Epic Awesome (Personally), TOTM And Beyond - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
      (Enough for now, I better post before I risk losing this. I may edit this post to add more or create a new post depending on what seems better.)
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    2. #2
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      YAY!!!

      I like seeing you here! I didn't realize you broke 400 LDs... That is freaking awesome!!!

      I love enjoying a dream scene.

      Also! WALK CONTROL! One problem with it is that it isn't as enjoyable at the time since you can't focus on it, there are some higher levels of walk control I shall tell you about later if you start working on it.
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    3. #3
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      Thank you Sensei! When I was at 399 I was thinking that I want #400 to be special and it was pretty good, but not epic.

      I do actually use walk control for actual control all the time, so the higher levels of it you mentioned would be interesting! When I mentioned it above, it was in using that same mindset for stabilization. I think I got the idea of using walk control or a walk control like mindset for increasing LD length from you.

      And congratulations on breaking 1,000!!!
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    4. #4
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      Let me echo a hearty congrats my friend on #400, that's awesome!

      I really like the "avoid taking the standard route back to your body" advice. I've done this a few times but not consistently (holding out my hand asking a DC to "pull me back in"). It of course is highly individual, but I wonder if you could give an example of how this "feels" to you: what is different between the "surrendering to waking" vs. avoiding it?
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      “May I awaken within this dream and grasp the fact that I am dreaming, so that all dreamlike beings may likewise awaken from the nightmare of illusory suffering and confusion.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    5. #5
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      Vigilantly watching for false awakenings is another method

      expecting an FA rather than an actual awakening
      true, this mindset got me to the ''void'' few times, need to go there again asap
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    6. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by fogelbise View Post
      Thank you Sensei! When I was at 399 I was thinking that I want #400 to be special and it was pretty good, but not epic.

      I do actually use walk control for actual control all the time, so the higher levels of it you mentioned would be interesting! When I mentioned it above, it was in using that same mindset for stabilization. I think I got the idea of using walk control or a walk control like mindset for increasing LD length from you.

      And congratulations on breaking 1,000!!!
      Awesome! I shall type some stuff up real fast. I have mentioned walk control in the past in the forum and made a "podcast" about a year ago (in lucid living with Sensei... Man, I had just had a kid at that time! lol) but never wrote it out like I have now in that post.

      So...
      Walk control PART !@#!$!%!@$%*2...
      Some fun things to do with walk control. Do to the fact that walk control has been perceived as kind of... boring by some (mainly me), I have found ways to spruce it up to enjoy it more, some of it works with other controls, while there is one that is really more fun than all due to the fact that it can yield... more ridiculous results.

      WALK CONTROL TELEPORT (training wheels)
      Since I focus heavily on teleporting, this is basically using Walk Control with Universe Control. If the thing you are struggling with is something like "energy movement", "fire control", "transforming into a wolf/dolphin", or "making love to women" (do you see the plural on there? I put it on there after reading some of your dream journal) instead of just walk controlling and missing out on all of the fun. With something like wolf/dolphin it won't matter as much since the "transformation" isn't the goal, "being transformed" is the goal. So what you would do is walk control there if you need to (to a place that this should be accomplished, Goku, Natsu, Crazy witch, playboy mansion) and instead of just doing whatever you feel when you get there, keep the walk control mindset up until you accomplish the task a couple of the times, and then do it without the walk control.

      WALK CONTROL DEVICE (the technological romance)
      I have only done this a little bit, but the idea is quite simple, this is the device control like last time and is similar to the training wheels lesson, instead of teleporting there, you summon things with walk control and have it work a few times and then do it without the walk control.

      PROGRAM YOUR SOUL (BAM!)
      Walk control a program that comes back at you. It might be a wee bit complicated, so you might want to try some easier programs first. A program with the end of it being turning me into an anime, allowing me to control fire, making me fly, teleporting me to oz, exploding my body! The cool part is that it you can stop the walk control after you let the program loose, "fetch me my coffee and come back and kick me out of my dream body" then just wait for your coffee and BAM! It happens while you are no longer in the "walk control" mindset.

      SHEOL HAS BROKEN LOOSE (leaving the nest)
      This one is a little more reckless than the last and can lead to the best results (by best, I mean hilarious), start out something with walk control and then just... stop. flying with walk control, and stop. Try and do it without walk control, hope you figure it out before you hit the ground!

      Walk control Mjolnir until you are in the middle of a battle.

      Control all 4 elements like the avatar... then stop the walk control.


      Speaking of which, I think that walk control is very similar to the avatar state.
      Patience108 and fogelbise like this.
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    7. #7
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      Where's walk control part 1?
      FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
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      “May I awaken within this dream and grasp the fact that I am dreaming, so that all dreamlike beings may likewise awaken from the nightmare of illusory suffering and confusion.”
      "...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS

    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      Where's walk control part 1?
      Active Vs Passive (Lesson 1)
      I will be on hiatus again, if you have any questions, then read these threads and PM me after.
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    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by FryingMan View Post
      Let me echo a hearty congrats my friend on #400, that's awesome!

      I really like the "avoid taking the standard route back to your body" advice. I've done this a few times but not consistently (holding out my hand asking a DC to "pull me back in"). It of course is highly individual, but I wonder if you could give an example of how this "feels" to you: what is different between the "surrendering to waking" vs. avoiding it?
      Great question, especially since it helped me to solidify the process in my own mind. I have described it as making different unusual, animal-like movements or as surfing the space between dreams but I think one way to describe it that more people could relate to would be swimming. Think of it like nearing the surface from below the water in a comfortable, large body of water...but then you realize you want to swim some more and decide to duck back down into the depths of the water exploring some more. So you can make that movement and just keep swimming It may take some time for your eyes to adjust (as a new scene forms) but you are ready to swim some more!

      Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
      Awesome! I shall type some stuff up real fast. I have mentioned walk control in the past in the forum and made a "podcast" about a year ago (in lucid living with Sensei... Man, I had just had a kid at that time! lol) but never wrote it out like I have now in that post.

      So...
      Walk control PART !@#!$!%!@$%*2...
      Some fun things to do with walk control. Do to the fact that walk control has been perceived as kind of... boring by some (mainly me), I have found ways to spruce it up to enjoy it more, some of it works with other controls, while there is one that is really more fun than all due to the fact that it can yield... more ridiculous results.

      WALK CONTROL TELEPORT (training wheels)
      Since I focus heavily on teleporting, this is basically using Walk Control with Universe Control. If the thing you are struggling with is something like "energy movement", "fire control", "transforming into a wolf/dolphin", or "making love to women" (do you see the plural on there? I put it on there after reading some of your dream journal) instead of just walk controlling and missing out on all of the fun. With something like wolf/dolphin it won't matter as much since the "transformation" isn't the goal, "being transformed" is the goal. So what you would do is walk control there if you need to (to a place that this should be accomplished, Goku, Natsu, Crazy witch, playboy mansion) and instead of just doing whatever you feel when you get there, keep the walk control mindset up until you accomplish the task a couple of the times, and then do it without the walk control.

      WALK CONTROL DEVICE (the technological romance)
      I have only done this a little bit, but the idea is quite simple, this is the device control like last time and is similar to the training wheels lesson, instead of teleporting there, you summon things with walk control and have it work a few times and then do it without the walk control.

      PROGRAM YOUR SOUL (BAM!)
      Walk control a program that comes back at you. It might be a wee bit complicated, so you might want to try some easier programs first. A program with the end of it being turning me into an anime, allowing me to control fire, making me fly, teleporting me to oz, exploding my body! The cool part is that it you can stop the walk control after you let the program loose, "fetch me my coffee and come back and kick me out of my dream body" then just wait for your coffee and BAM! It happens while you are no longer in the "walk control" mindset.

      SHEOL HAS BROKEN LOOSE (leaving the nest)
      This one is a little more reckless than the last and can lead to the best results (by best, I mean hilarious), start out something with walk control and then just... stop. flying with walk control, and stop. Try and do it without walk control, hope you figure it out before you hit the ground!

      Walk control Mjolnir until you are in the middle of a battle.

      Control all 4 elements like the avatar... then stop the walk control.


      Speaking of which, I think that walk control is very similar to the avatar state.
      Thank you for that great response! Some great seeds there! I am especially intrigued with the possibilities of "Program Your Soul" and "Sheol Has Broken Loose!" Yes, I do think that I first heard about walk control on your podcast. Thank you again Sensei!
      Sensei and Patience108 like this.

    10. #10
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      Have fun with all of that. I generally see myself as going "down" to a dream. When I DEILD (which isn't as much any more unless I am looking for dream goals) it always seemed like that swimming thing you were talking about. I would feel waking and sleeping in my grasp and slowly start feeling my body. Then I kick off of my body and go to a dream. I never thought of it like swimming, but yeah, if it is the same thing, then it seems like swimming is the right word for it.
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    11. #11
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      More dream control:
      • phasing through object as if it wasn't there, the more you think that you are passing through "something" the more you may have to "try." For me it is flying straight out of a house or building as if there was no roof. I have gotten away from this though.
      • Another dream control is the Jedi mind trick which is very useful and surprisingly easy most of the time.

      Recently experimenting with strong self awareness during WBTB which seems very promising. Last night I had a very waking-life strong self awareness moment in the middle of a dream that made me lucid. Holding onto it would be great for DC&S.

      Release technique also helped with self awareness during WBTB and also (projected my consciousness) just above and forward of my forehead for a very peculiar feeling. Hard to describe.

      Non-DC&S notes that were helpful to me
      FA=GOOD WAKING MEMORY? perhaps waking memory including planned tasks is better in FAs in general and perhaps this is because FA's often occur in a familiar surrounding that serves to wake up those memories of waking life more easily. Basic and Advanced(?) TOTM - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

      Focusing on DEILDs or FAs tends to help catch more lucidity, more FAs, but not without pre-DEILD being the primary focus. Good Vibrations, Summer Sensations DILD +chaining - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
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