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    Thread: Long Haul (Lesson 2)

    1. #1
      Vagabond


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      Long Haul (Lesson 2)

      So this is a thread more for what you might be wanting to do with your LDs in the "long haul" some of it is pulled from different sources, and a lot of it is an expansion of what I have talked about before.

      A lot of this is going to be talking about progress and picking up where you left off, as well as things that I haven't heard from other people, so YOU CAN ONLY FIND SOME OF THIS HERE!!!!


      A lot of this is troubleshooting problems in a dream and is going to branch off of my previous lesson. I shall use words that I used there in defining things, so you might not know what I am talking about if you haven't read this thread:
      Active Vs Passive (Lesson 1)

      CTRL + S

      So lets say that you learned a new skill. To go off of the previous thread, that new skill was all things fire (remember, this could be flying, teleporting, expanding, leaving your body, turning into a balloon, eating a dream character, any skill). What if I want to do it again without going through the trouble of relearning it? Why should it be easier the next time? Here is something from one of my teachers back in the day
      - 'Saving' your powers for the next dream.

      Thread here
      So you discovered a new type of power. Maybe you learned to throw fireballs. Maybe you got this awesome killer gaze. (I'm just saying.)

      You wouldn't want to start at level 1 again, now would you? So when you acquire a new ability, you have to make it permanent. It's sort of like a scar, once you get it, you learn to live with it. When you learn a new ability, you have to consider it as 'permanent', like something likely to stay on you forever. Get used to having it all the time, and you will have it in each of the following dreams.
      This is what I would call a form of Universe Control!!!
      "But Sensei, how is this universe control, what if I did this in my living room?"
      Calm down and let me finish. Think of the dream world as its own universe. This is why when you first start lucid dreaming you are told "everyone flies in a dream!!!" and you fly, or "everyone has trouble stabilizing" and everyone has trouble stabilizing. The world works just like you have told it works. Every time you go to sleep you go to your "dream world" when you go back to the lucid, think of it as going back, now you can just pick up where you left off. Of course if you use Universe control like going to Kame house in order to learn Kamehameha, then you need to think of it as that universe when there, then after the dream when you wake and the next time you go into a dream, think of it as being in the dream universe last time. Make sense? Good.

      Persistent Realms, Characters, and Items
      I almost quit lucid dreaming, but then I learned about persistent realms. This is the whole reason I stayed:
      Persistent realms and other lucid dreaming techniques I use. - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

      So, this is an amazing read, but I find plenty of problems with it and minor things to change. So we grab a few things from it and change it.
      Thinking it is real.
      This is a good way to keep a persistent place, character, or item. Items are nice because you can leave them in your pocket or on you. Characters are interesting because you can just think of them as persistent or "real" and they might show back up. It is interesting because they will be in some places and not others. Sometimes just appearing when least expected. That is pretty cool.
      Persistent places.
      Now if you want a persistent place to be perfectly persistent and "real" then it will need a set "entrance" or something similar. You cannot just find yourself there. You need to specifically go there. Or it breaks the persistence. If you are looking for a realm that is like a waking place or like a fantasy place. I have a realm called Zodra, that is a "dream realm" it follows the rules of dream, but has a few rules. So I don't have to teleport there, because it can be like any dream. The rules are that any control I gain in Zodra I keep for good. Anything that I can do in a dream, I can do there. Any DC that knows it is a dream can have the same powers as a dreamer and becomes persistent, I can make persistent places within Zodra if they have an "entrance" that entrance becomes persistent with Zodra. Basically by adding the word dream in the definition, I ended up with a lot better way for me to make it to Zodra often since I don't always remember my dream goals (probably 1/2 of time I do remember). Don't forget to customize everything to yourself and what you want in a dream world.

      Redoing Goals
      This is not the same as the CTRL + S thing, as when you "save" something for later, you plan on just using it in a different situation, like a swiss army knife. I like finding a goal that I can do a bunch of times over and simply getting to know that goal. I once had a goal to teleport to Aincrad. After a while I realized that I wasn't great at teleporting, but every time I was in a dream, I started thinking about teleporting and I would just look around and think of a new way to teleport if I couldn't think of an old way. This is why I have that thread about teleporting. I simply teleported about 70/100 LDs and landed in aincrad about 15 times of that (I have been back since then). This made it so that, not only was teleporting something that I was good at, but something that was second nature, and that no matter if one way didn't work, I could easily find another way. I have other "repeatable goals" like fighting, adventuring, talking with persistent DCs, learning about Zodra. That I do from time to time as well, but focusing on one goal for a long time, something easy and repeatable in any situation, seems to be something that helps you to enjoy LDs and get a little more familiar with it.

      Picking a Starting point
      Now I don't recommend anyone doing exactly what I do, mainly because that is the opposite of what I do. I try to find something specific to me that I find will help me out and help me move forward in a dream I like the idea of starting every lucid the same. This is similar to the last one, but instead of being a "goal" it is a "starting point" I have noticed that if my lucid dreams start a certain way, I usually have better awareness and remember my goals. So for the month of November, my goal was to start all of my lucid dreams that way. I think that it is a good thing as it gives me time to stabilize and get comfortable in my dream world. Doing something many times in the same way is a sign of comfort and habit, and I believe it is a good way to get lucid as well, since you might "know you are dreaming", but not slow down enough to "know that you know that you are dreaming". But if every time that you realize you are dreaming, you write a little note in the sky "I am dreaming, what are my goals", you might just be writing in the sky one day and be like !OH YEAH! I am DREAMING!

      I Suck at This
      This may seem counter intuitive, but I think that this is one of the best ways to get good at dream control. After you are getting lucid pretty often and have some things that you do in lucid dreams, I recommend finding some things that you have trouble doing in a lucid dream, and making them a goal, maybe even a repeatable goal. There is literally no difference if your mind is controlling fire or ice, it is all in your imagination, but for some reason, one is harder than the other for you. Then do that one and master it. Screw this dream! I can do any type of dream control.

      There is Another
      Alright, so you have gone through everything that you want to do in a lucid dream, now what? Do it again! This time, differently. If there is anything that you "naturally do one way" or you struggled with it and found one way that works for you. It took me about 40 LDs to fly (70 LDs into my journey, 40 tries) and I finally found a way that works. After that, I had to do something very specific in order to fly. After a while, I got sick of this since it took a while to get started, but I couldn't seem to get past it. Then my DG taught me how to "zoom fly" and I applied it to while I was taking off as well. grab a point and just zoom over to it (might help if you blur your vision the first few times), so now I just pick a place in the sky and I zoom to it, then I am in the air flying and I can fly at whatever speed I want.
      This idea is kind of like creating a box where dream control is easy for you and then busting out of it so that dream control is hard again.

      Full Control
      If you have ever had full control, then you might have thought that this is the limit, I simply think that the limit is your imagination and if you can control everything that you can imagine, then you need to improve your imagination in order to get better at dream control at this point. The way to full control is usually the "spoon method" It is basically becoming aware of the fact that everything is in your head and that there is nothing that is not you.
      Simple Method For Total Control - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
      ^Usually something like this

      Notes on Semi-Lucid Control
      So you have probably had this, happen before. You struggle with X, but during non lucid dreams, epic (present, long) dreams, and semi lucid (aware, not 100% present) dreams, you easily do X. For some reason you find it amazingly easy to do these crazy things. The reason being is that you are doing "universe control" to the fullest, since you fully believe that you are in that place and are doing that thing, of course you aren't going to fail. It is a good thing to note that there is nothing actually stopping you from doing anything in a lucid dream, not your unconscious or your "subconscious". The only problem is your lack of awareness, or awareness.
      lack of awareness of the fact that everything can be under your full control
      If you raise awareness, you can fix this usually. (see previous part "full control")
      Awareness of previous mistakes or of how the "waking world" works
      Being aware of the fact that you are not usually able to throw fireballs, or the fact that you have struggled with throwing fireballs in the past lucid dreams. This is what semi-lucids or epics lack, that memory. It doesn't make them better, just different. You must be able to forget your mistakes from the past or be able to think of a reason (real or otherwise) that it will work now when it didn't work before. The reason that it works now and not in waking is because this is a dream. The reason that it works now but didn't work in other dreams is because you are better now, is because that lamp makes it easier to use fire, because now I am naked, because now I have full control. This part of a shifting blame control I have mentioned in the past. Making a reason as to why it will work now.

      TATA For Now!
      So this is all that I have for now. Good luck with your endeavors, stay out of the box. Feel free to make a box for yourself and then break through it, instead of just trying to live without boxes.
      Last edited by Sensei; 11-25-2015 at 10:25 PM.
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    2. #2
      Vagabond


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      Imagination Movement
      This is what I call the movement of any type by "imagination" as opposed to feeling it.
      Here is a quick exercise:
      Look down at your arm and move it to your face. (Normal movement)
      Look down at your arm and try to will it to move to your face. (imagination movement)

      In waking life, your arm won't move unless you move the muscles on your arm. In a dream, just imagining it moving should make it move. This is an easy way to do some simple things like running fast, hitting harder, etc. After you do it a few times, you should be able to "flex" the muscles and move them without it being in imagination control. It might throw you off for real life running though. This is good when fighting, and I think it is a lot of what is happening, since in a dream fight you are not usually concerned with things you would be in a waking fight. You usually are more concerned with where your opponent is and dealing damage. In a real fight, you need to be more concerned with where you both are and stopping him from damaging you. So this outward focus leaves your body, footing, balance, stability (in dream), and movement all to the imagination. Even a lot of your moves are just being fired quickly and without thought for the movement. I usually try to switch fights to more of a standard movement control. Jason has taught me how to be more connected to your dream body and care more about what happens to it during a fight.


      The Art of Letting Go
      This is something that I think will be accomplished differently for everyone, but here is something that I do often. I didn't think of it before as dream control, but more as "stability".
      Remember that for this, I need to think of stability as a form of dream control.

      So when I do a WILD, I will often start seeing things before anything else. This will give me a false sense that the dream has begun. I have to let it go like you would if you heard a sound. For me, nothing is stronger than my visualization, so I start seeing things way early. I wait for it to become more solid. My dream body will even start getting involved in a dream, I act just like I would if it was a non lucid dream. I allow my body to go wherever it wants, until I hear/smell/feel/taste something. Then, since two senses have become involved, I have what I need to attempt moving. Instead of just moving my arm and trying to move it, I use "imagination" control and move my hands to rub together, stabilizing the dream. I then stop and think about dream goals like I would in a normal lucid dream. Until that moment, I don't consider it a lucid dream, more like a lucid daydream.

      I originally did this when I was doing DILDs as well and kept waking from them. It seemed like as soon as I did something out of the dream logic (the dream that I became lucid in), I would start destabilizing. So think of it this way:
      I am the commander of my ship, people come to me and I give them all their orders. I am in charge and I treat my men roughly because they don't need to be coddled by their captain, because the sea will not coddle them, and neither will pirates. Everything is very strict. I then realize I am dreaming, and instead of being mean to the men, I decide it is time for a feast. I wake up as soon as I go towards the kitchen doors.

      This break from the original story used to make me lose stability all the time, not trying to give you bad schema, but for some reason I got this idea in my head. I then decided to go with the story while gaining awareness, which would make the dream go more like this:
      I then realize I am dreaming and I decide it is time for a feast. I decide to wait a little bit and let the dream continue while I gain awareness. I am repeating "I'm dreaming" over and over in my head while I think of goals and ways to accomplish them, my dream body is still barking orders at soldiers, and I can feel it and know that I am in charge of what he is saying, but I am just letting him in control of my body while I get a better hold on the mind. When I feel that the dream is completely stable in spite of the fact that I am dreaming, I walk over to the kitchen and feast.

      Now I am not saying that this is something that you should do (an idea for stability if you struggle with it), but I am saying that being in control of things doesn't mean you are better, choosing what you control is best. I often will give control back to my feet for running so I don't have to pay attention, lost control of my body while I just enjoy the taste of the food. This isn't completely confined to your body either. You can be in full control of a dream and give it back. I have troubles with trying to give control to dream characters. Some DCs are not as easy to give control to as others. In Zodra I don't mess with control, since it is persistent, if I give control to a non aware DC, it will mess with how that world works.

      Sometimes when you are trying universe control, it might be good to lose some control and gain it back. Lose control so that you can feel yourself doing an attack or ability, and then take control back and do it again.

      If there is a code that you want to break in a dream, this might be the way. If you want to type in a dream, instead of just trying to hit the buttons, just look at the screen and let go of your hands and just let the typing go while you concentrate on what to type.

      Does this make sense? I forgot to add it earlier.
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    3. #3
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      Thanks Sensei! I will deffinatelly read through again ~ both - there is much to ponder here ...but the second one really had me drawn in, my attention captivated... Something concerning the way you talk about gaining control ... Explaining the way you observe all the many things going on in your dream...allowing the now Lucid dream to continue its way to continue playing with you in it and an observer...knowing they are all you aswell as knowing you are taking a step back reminding yourself of goals and how you might accomplish them ~ all this before you take the dream in a cirtain direction of your choice... well - it's awsome to think about being at that level - mindblowingly cool Very inspiring!

      And the imaginary moving is really great to think about too.. Do you think practicing this kind of movement in WL could help ...aswell as in the night if one is awake in bed, If so could you elaborate on that a little more? Thanks
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    4. #4
      Vagabond


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      Quote Originally Posted by Patience108 View Post
      Thanks Sensei! I will deffinatelly read through again ~ both - there is much to ponder here ...but the second one really had me drawn in, my attention captivated... Something concerning the way you talk about gaining control ... Explaining the way you observe all the many things going on in your dream...allowing the now Lucid dream to continue its way to continue playing with you in it and an observer...knowing they are all you aswell as knowing you are taking a step back reminding yourself of goals and how you might accomplish them ~ all this before you take the dream in a cirtain direction of your choice... well - it's awsome to think about being at that level - mindblowingly cool Very inspiring!

      And the imaginary moving is really great to think about too.. Do you think practicing this kind of movement in WL could help ...aswell as in the night if one is awake in bed, If so could you elaborate on that a little more? Thanks
      I am glad you liked it! Feel free to comment more if you have any new ideas from it!

      The best place to practice would be in dreams! lol. However, the second best place to practice would probably be in your imagination. I like visualization, so it would be similar to visualizing yourself doing something. This can help you get the idea of imagining things happening without actually doing them.
      When I visualize, I think that it is funny what different things are difficult to visualize. Like movements that I do not see very often. A lot of times when visualizing myself moving, I will keep spinning when I turn and completely overshoot my target. I am guessing that this is different for everyone, but I find visualizing to be very fun and helpful for this!
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    5. #5
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      I like this lesson. Way more than the first one. i just couldn't do this much with it...
      A lot of usefull informations that one need to process and intigrate somehow into his business.
      no lesson like: do this to get that more a mindset and think about it lesson^^
      i will read it again and see what i can take with me. i might write you some questions but in the moment it seems clear

      I see a lot of things you mention that i already expirienced by myself like trying to hard and not letting go or your notes to semilucid powers.

      the redoing goals,persistant DC/Items and picking a starpoint is especially interesting for me right now and i will see how to incorporate it into my lucids.
      i like the idea of items but i just cant get an idea what item i might need or want... will see^^
      and the example with typing the textmessage and to let go and give up some control was very good and enlightening before that i didnt get it 100% what you wanted to tell me with "walking control" or where i might use it

      Well done!
      Last edited by RelaxAndDream; 11-26-2015 at 03:39 PM.
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