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    Thread: Natural Dream Control?

    1. #26
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      There are very clear, rigid mechanisms at work that once understood and mastered make those "throw offs" mean nothing. They too are non-events, simply the brain functioning the way it functions. *shrugs*
      I get what your saying now but i think we are on the same page.
      -w -I was just saying to look at the big picture. Dream control isnt going to be perfect everytime.
      control is not a matter of belief, luck, or anything nearly so whimsical
      If you believe something will happen in dreams it will most likely happen. So how is belief not apart of it? Maintaining control over your dreams includes having control over your thoughts.
      Last edited by DreamCafe11; 10-05-2015 at 06:17 PM.
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    2. #27
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      Like I said, I've explained this concept countless times. Check out some of my guides and the corresponding conversations.

      Think about it this way: Dreams are simply thoughts made manifest. Controlling your dreams is then simply controlling your thoughts. Regarding thoughts, it's not necessary to believe a thought to have a thought. Adding belief to something so pure as a thought just muddles things about. So why bother with belief at all when you can deal simply in the purity of thought?

    3. #28
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      I dont need to read them. I rather talk to you about it here. Just having thoughts without belief, I never said it was wrong. Belief is what throws people off at times.Having these "pure thoughts" is not easy at times though. I mean you could think pure thoughts while getting your head smashed against the floor but you'd still be pretty distracted if your feeling dream pain. Which is why dream control might be hard. Sure pure thoughts will help but its not easy at first. Plus no one is perfect.
      "Be the best You, you can be...Relax...Listen...Imagine...*Silence*...Zzzzz"

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    4. #29
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      This really isn't a teaching thread. I'm not going to be going over basics that I've gone over elsewhere, unfortunately. Don't have the time.

      I will say this much: you're getting too hung up on the word "pure". Thoughts are thoughts are thoughts are thoughts.

    5. #30
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      I thought youd understand better if I said "pure thoughts". Also, I never asked you to teach me a thing. I dont need for you to teach me anything. Its simple enough to understand.Well whatever than. I dont think you understand what im saying so its better if we forget this conversation happened. ^ w ^
      Last edited by DreamCafe11; 10-06-2015 at 02:36 AM.
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    6. #31
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      I think the hang-up is on the word "belief" which can be problematic in its ambiguity. In one sense, "belief" means "faith" or perhaps "wishful desire." That is the definition that Mzzkc seeks to dispell, mostly because it is ineffable, unreliable, and outside of rational analysis. The other sense of "belief" or "believable" describes a thought that is consistent with other thoughts, so that it is acceptable to the unconscious mind. In that sense, we can investigate and utilize thoughts and their consistency through the use of such tools as schemata and mnemonics. That is the sense that is most useful for dream control.
      Last edited by sisyphus; 10-06-2015 at 05:35 AM. Reason: or "believable", for clarity
      I am sure about illusion. I am not so sure about reality.

    7. #32
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      I knew that already. Which is why it feels like we were going back and forth for no reason. ┐(︶▽︶")┌
      I dont think she understood which belief I was referring to either.
      Last edited by DreamCafe11; 10-06-2015 at 05:27 PM.
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    8. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by sisyphus View Post
      I think the hang-up is on the word "belief" which can be problematic in its ambiguity. In one sense, "belief" means "faith" or perhaps "wishful desire." That is the definition that Mzzkc seeks to dispell, mostly because it is ineffable, unreliable, and outside of rational analysis. The other sense of "belief" or "believable" describes a thought that is consistent with other thoughts, so that it is acceptable to the unconscious mind. In that sense, we can investigate and utilize thoughts and their consistency through the use of such tools as schemata and mnemonics. That is the sense that is most useful for dream control.
      I actually really like the way you explained this. I was thinking about what Mzzkc said during a lucid dream that I had last night: I needed to make a getaway and was trying to summon a specific DC in a specific car, but just controlling my surface-level thoughts wasn't enough to make it happen. In my parlance, I needed to more thoroughly "believe" that it was going to happen... but "believe" in the sense of making my subconscious thoughts and expectations fall in line with my conscious ones.

      Language is a funny thing. We can all be on exactly the same page, saying different things.
      Patience108 likes this.

      I pick up a half-eaten copy of a book by Neil Gaiman, and decide this is all his fault.

    9. #34
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      I am so glad you said that Samael - I was thinking quite a bit about what Sisyphus said too .. The way he said it and re reading what had been posted by Mzzck originally and others since had me really pondering the way our minds work in general and then particularly when Lucid - it makes me feel I have soo much work to do yet very happy tobe " getting" something...clarifying in someway

      And yes the same page stuff too
      Last edited by Patience108; 10-07-2015 at 10:02 PM.
      Samael likes this.

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