5 months in and still struggle with stability and waking quickly

Hi, I have a question for the more advanced dreamers. How long did it take for you to stop losing clarity and or waking up quickly when lucid dreaming? I've had about 43 lucid dreams in 5 months including some (5-6) longer dreams of maybe 15-20 mins. Most only last about 3 mins though and they have been particularly short the last few weeks. I've tried all of the well known stabilizing techniques which sometimes work. I don't feel I'm getting too excited and usually have a goal I'm working on. I find my vision often comes and goes fading in and out of darkness and I'm able to bring it back by touching things a few time before waking. Once awake I'm fully awake. I really try not to focus on the dream ending when dreaming but that is challenging. Is this normal at this still somewhat new stage of practice and does it get better? Thanks

One thing that helped me was having gentler induction techniques. I find that when I focus hard and become lucid, I have a bit more clarity but wake up soon after (no matter what I do to stay in). If I use something a bit gentler (like SSILD) I may have less mental acuity but the dream can last longer as well.

I had success with the technique of looking at my hand, then around at the dream then at my hand again. Had a fairly long and stable LD last night using this method. Was also going to try the method of holding an object in my hand as someone suggested and I've had success with it before but forgot,

I have trouble with stabilization too! I've had 1400+ lucid dreams in 4+ years but I don't think I've ever had any last longer than 10 minutes. Most of my lucid dreams are about 1-3 minutes in length.

I think my stabilization problem stems from me being a light sleeper. It is more difficult for me to stay asleep in general, so it is more difficult for me to stay asleep in order to keep the dream going. My non-lucid dreams have always been fairly short as well. I don't remember having a non-lucid dream lasting more than 20 or 30 minutes.

I've been thinking of approaching stabilization from a physiological perspective. The stabilization technique should involve the things needed to be maintained in order for the dream to be maintained. For example, the stabilization technique should involve staying asleep because we need to be asleep to keep the dream going. It should also involve keeping REM sleep going.

Doing a bit of research, I read that REM sleep activation involves acetylcholine. Acetylcholine plays an important role in arousal, attention, and motivation so these things should be involved in a stabilization technique. I also read that that REM deactivation involves noradrenaline. Noradrenaline is involved during situations of stress or danger so these things should be avoided in a stabilization technique.

It sounds like stabilization of dreams is a matter of keeping the mind motivated while keeping the body asleep. The "Lie down, hold still, and wait" techniques used during WILD are used for this purpose so perhaps mental aspects of them can be used as stabilization techniques during dreams.

Hi dolphin, now that must be frustrating. I'm a light sleeper as well. I do take galantamine occasionally which in an acetylcholine reuptake inhibitor so it gives you longer more stable dreams. I do find it helpful and haven't had any side effects except lots of micro awakenings in the morning.

I did have a long 10 plus minutes LD the night before last. I tried the technique of looking at my hand, back at the environment then back at my hand. I did this every couple of minutes and it did seem to increase my visual clarity each time I did it. I also had several goals I was focused on which also seemed to help.

Last week I was able to stay in a dream after my vision faded to black (several times), by crawling on the ground and rubbing the dirt and grass each time my vision faded. Seems like staying with the tactile sense kept me in. I really felt I would wake up any second.

Another long LD I had a grabbed an object and held onto it throughout the dream again for the tactile sense. I've had instances where these techniques did not work at all as well.

Do you have a goal in mind when you go to sleep? Have you tried any of these stabilizing techniques? Can you think of anything that was different about your longer LDs?

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Originally Posted by Azaleaj

I do take galantamine occasionally which in an acetylcholine reuptake inhibitor so it gives you longer more stable dreams. I do find it helpful and haven't had any side effects except lots of micro awakenings in the morning.

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That is fine and good but I'd rather not spend money if I don't have too.

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Originally Posted by Azaleaj

I did have a long 10 plus minutes LD the night before last. I tried the technique of looking at my hand, back at the environment then back at my hand. I did this every couple of minutes and it did seem to increase my visual clarity each time I did it.

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I have tried the hand technique but it did not increase the length of the dream. Perhaps I did it with the wrong mindset. I did not do it with the mindset you use of stabilizing in order to start over with a clean slate, effectively stacking lucid dreams on top of each other so to speak. I like this strategy and will try it.

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Originally Posted by Azaleaj

Last week I was able to stay in a dream after my vision faded to black (several times), by crawling on the ground and rubbing the dirt and grass each time my vision faded. Seems like staying with the tactile sense kept me in. I really felt I would wake up any second.

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I have saved myself from waking as well. However, I don't think I have saved myself from waking multiple times. I like the idea of holding on to the tactile sense until the visual sense comes back.

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Originally Posted by Azaleaj

Another long LD I had a grabbed an object and held onto it throughout the dream again for the tactile sense. I've had instances where these techniques did not work at all as well.

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I have tried holding an object for stabilization. However, I only tried it once because it did not work the first time.

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Originally Posted by Azaleaj

Do you have a goal in mind when you go to sleep? Have you tried any of these stabilizing techniques?

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I do have a goal in mind when I sleep. However, I usually only have one goal in mind. I can see how having multiple goals in mind would be better because I could effectively stack lucid dreams to make one longer one.

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Originally Posted by Azaleaj

Can you think of anything that was different about your longer LDs?

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My longer LDs usually consist of me DEILDing, or saving the dream in some other way. Some of my longer LDs also involve me being in many different places throughout the dream.

Now that I think about it, it might be not be the light sleeping that causes the short dreams, but rather the subconscious expectation that the story of the dream is over so therefore it is time to wake up. I occasionally become lucid in dreams due to not waking up when I expect to. I'll think something like "The story of the dream is over. Why haven't I woken up yet? Wait! The story of the dream. I guess I'm dreaming. :lol:"

I'll try the dream stabilization and clarity tutorial again. I guess I just need to really believe I'm in control over when I'm going to wake up.

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Originally Posted by Azaleaj

Hi, I have a question for the more advanced dreamers. How long did it take for you to stop losing clarity and or waking up quickly when lucid dreaming? I've had about 43 lucid dreams in 5 months including some (5-6) longer dreams of maybe 15-20 mins. Most only last about 3 mins though and they have been particularly short the last few weeks. I've tried all of the well known stabilizing techniques which sometimes work. I don't feel I'm getting too excited and usually have a goal I'm working on. I find my vision often comes and goes fading in and out of darkness and I'm able to bring it back by touching things a few time before waking. Once awake I'm fully awake. I really try not to focus on the dream ending when dreaming but that is challenging. Is this normal at this still somewhat new stage of practice and does it get better? Thanks

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Hi Azaleaj. I am male. I had my first adult self-induced lucid dream 41 years ago. Most (90%+ approx.) of my subsequent LDs have involved short periods of lucidity (from 1 to 10 seconds approx.). Believe you me, despite internet anecdotes, lucidity that lasts three minutes, let alone 15-20 minutes, is a blue moon experience. For me, even today, 90% approx. of the lucid part of my dreams lasts just seconds, so I don't think that there is a definitive answer to your question. I have found no 'curve of progression' as it were, more like periods of doldrums, then leaps and bounds, followed by more periods of doldrums. The fact that I am male may have some bearing - info that I read once stated that lucid dreaming is easier for females than for males, due to differing temperaments. I make no claims about that one way or the other - I just put it into the mix.

Please understand that I'm not stating that you won't necessarily 'improve' - I certainly did, periods of lucidity-wise and clarity/control-wise. It's just that such longer periods of lucidity have been rare, in relation to my still-usual lucidity that lasts seconds. That's a shallow sleeper for you. Heh.

BTW It took me 6 years to go from lucidity of 1-5 seconds to a lucid of 60 seconds approx.

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Originally Posted by Azaleaj

I had success with the technique of looking at my hand, then around at the dream then at my hand again. Had a fairly long and stable LD last night using this method.

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Good that you tried this and had success with it. It's been a mainstay of my practice since 1975.

Apart from the ground/earth, I wouldn't 'touch' anything, lest my attention (lucidity) slips, which it will do if I touch things, in my (male) experience.

I'd also like to add that all anecdote is just words (mine included) - it is one's own empirical experience that will sort out the wheat from the chaff.

All the best to you and good luck with it all.

EDIT:

QUOTE Oneiro: "Apart from the ground/earth, I wouldn't 'touch' anything, lest my attention (lucidity) slips, which it will do if I touch things.."

This should read: ""Apart from the ground/earth, I wouldn't 'touch' anything, lest my attention (lucidity) slips, which it often (but not always) does if I touch things.."

I've been LD'ing for over 20 years and it wasn't until recently that I stopped having troubles with waking up early. What did I do? I threw out the window all the stabilization techniques and the need for stabilization. Instead of worrying about stabilizing I would just get on with it. I would only try to stabilize if the dream was actually fading. This eventually led to me having longer lucid dreams.

I remember one night my lucid kept fading and the only thing I could do to stop it was to sit down cross legged on the ground. When I sat down and put my hands on the floor I would feel the surface with my hands to stimulate the sensation of touch. I had to sit down about 5 times in the same lucid dream it was pretty ridiculous but hey it worked. Bit hard to do if you're in the middle of flying though.

Another thing I did once was went to sleep in a lucid dream, I then entered a new lucid dream and when that one faded away I was back in the previous lucid dream where I had gone to sleep. It created a sort of buffer zone from waking up IRL. I then went to sleep again and had the exact same thing happen about 3 times over! I'm not sure if this was just pure luck or if this could be a new technique? I only tried it one more time on a different occasion and it didn't work out.

I have this problem too. I have a ton of lucid dreams because for some reason I randomly realize that I'm dreaming every night, but no technique stops me from waking up within ten seconds. The only one that comes close is spinning, which usually causes a false awakening, but I wake up shortly after. Rubbing hands does nothing for me. Looking closely at objects and shouting for lucidity to increase work a tiny bit. It's probably because I get so excited when I realize I'm dreaming. Maybe I just need some techniques to calm myself down...

The tactile thing is Gold for me. In one of my longer lucids I was walking my dog, holding him by the collar and leash, I walked a couple blocks for what seemed like several minutes. Usually I wake up fast and I was wondering why my dream was lasting so long.