Thread: Lucid Dreaming gets harder with age?

I can't say much personally after the teenage years because I'm still on my late teens, but I know as a child I could lucid dream pretty frequently without trying, and I know of older members on this board who are able to lucid dream well.

The reason behind it is R.E.M. sleep (Rapid Eye Movement) in which we dream, it gets a bit shorter with age, and R.E.M. sleep as a young child is very active. Though I don't think its a big amount that decreases as we age. I'm not sure how accurite it is but this page shows graphs of diffrent stages of sleep, http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/sleep_age the two graphs still confuse me, its hard to tell exactly what two age groups they are refering to in it, but my guess is people over 50 (the lower graph) and young adults (the upper graph).

i sure hope not lol, because i plan to devote a lot of my time to learn how between 2009 and 2012... and i'm in my early 20s. i figured it would have more to do with your imagination, but i really don't know much about lucid dreaming, yet.

I have heard this too, but not any scientific proof or any sources, just the rumor.

I never LDed when I was little (or at least never remembered), I started having them three years ago, about 2-3 a year. It has only been in the past 4 months that I've had ~30 of my lucids, around my 20th birthday. It seems to have gotten MUCH easier for me. I think if you stay dedicated with your journals and reality checks that it won't make a difference how old you are. My mom is 50 and she's started having lucids too since I'm always talking to her about it and reminding her to do RCs. She's never kept a DJ though. I keep telling her to imagine how many she could have if she just would!

I wouldn't worry about it. Even if natural ability does decrease you can make up for that with practice.

Originally Posted by seinfeld55

Hello, I was just reading a wikipedia article that had some kind of tutorial for lucid dreaming, and it said that lucid dreaming gets harder as you get older. It said that it gets harder during the teenage years and after. Is this true? I know that wikipedia isn't always legitimate, but I've been lucid dreaming for several years, and I'm a little freaked out about this. Does anyone know what this is about?

Harder as in? I don't remember having many if any LDs when I was a boy. But have gotten more recently because I tried and I'm way past teenager.... It's both..brain chemistry and the awareness of lucid dreaming. The training or techniques actually alter brain chemistry by changing the way we percieve reality over a long period of using them. Things like reality checks during the day is one major alteration. I used to have issues doing them cause I'd get mental strain but after a long time I gotten used to doing them and the strain is minimal. So I don't believe it has to do with age.
IMJ

Originally Posted by imj

The training or techniques actually alter brain chemistry by changing the way we percieve reality over a long period of using them. Things like reality checks during the day is one major alteration.

whoa can you have a link to any references on that? I'd never heard it but it sounds very interesting! I'd like to learn more about that!

Originally Posted by Shift

whoa can you have a link to any references on that? I'd never heard it but it sounds very interesting! I'd like to learn more about that!

Those reality checks and questioning "Am I Dreaming?" when you obviously know your not is creating Obsessive Compulsive thought patterns. And the disorder Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is linked to brain chemistry so in other words doing those checks and asking if we are dreaming or not on a regular basis is changing the normal brain chemistry to an OCD one to a small degree. The more you believe that you may be in a dream, the deeper the mind is in the Obsessive Compulsive state and will enter into dream state because it has become a high priority aka genuine to check if he or she is in the dream state or not. It's safe as long as the person still knows he's doing the checks to get into the habit of doing them but that reduces the effect that will carry into the dream. As for techs like WILDing, VILD, FILD..etc are more toward the meditative state. You can do a search on a Dr Herbert Benson and a Dr James Austin about the brain when in meditative/relaxative state.

IMJ

Trusting the things on wiki, kills the wonders of facts..

I've lost a lot of abilities as I've aged when it comes to visualization, meditation, etc., AND I must admit my most vivid lucid happened when I was much younger. I was in grade school, middle school, or MAYBE early highschool. Can't recall when it happened. However, while it was my most lucid, it was the only one I recall having then. I didn't have another for years. I freaked, woke myself up, and wasted it. I wasn't terribly frightened, but perhaps a little. Mostly, it was the surprise of it. I didn't have another LD for years. In fact, I don't know if I had another one until I was either an older teen (nearing the end of my teen years) or even in my 20's. After I was in my 20's, I started having them ocassionally. So while they aren't as lucid, they are more frequent. And I just had one when I was younger, so maybe it being more lucid wasn't relevant to age, but something else. I didn't have enough then to make a judgement on whether age made a difference in the degree of lucidity and the vividness. Hopefully, I'll have a more lucid, more vivid one again. Point is, I've had more as I've aged. So, it doesn't seem age necessarily affects this negatively. ALSO, I met a man recently who said he LD'd from time to time and LOVED it. He said he didn't do it when he was younger. It started as he grew older. It seems it developed for us, with age.

Obsidian I am curious, do you use techniques to have LDs or wait for them to happen on their own? If so, what sort of techniques do you use to have lucids?

Originally Posted by Shift

Obsidian I am curious, do you use techniques to have LDs or wait for them to happen on their own? If so, what sort of techniques do you use to have lucids?

Hey Shift! Well, I've only had LD's spontaneously and infrequently. My first one was VERY lucid, but the shock brought me out of it fairly quickly, unfortunately. Usually now I'm only semi-lucid or have semi-control, but I seem to have them more now than I did when I was younger. They are sparse, and they are always spontaneous, with one exception. I sort of caused myself to have one, but it wasn't exactly a conscious choice. I didn't intend to have a lucid dream, but something I chose to do consciously, caused the LD.

I woke up from a dream and decided I didn't want to leave it, so I didn't move and just tried to return to the dream. When I did, I realized I was dreaming to some degree and tried controlling things. It worked to some extent, but not flawlessly, and I remember thinking, "What?! This is MY dream, I should be able to do what I want!"

If I go back to sleep, and float into an LD, is that a WILD? Usually when LD happens, I don't even know why it happens.

The first LD I had which was the most vivid was a DILD, though. I didn't do any reality testing, but suddenly thought to myself that something in the dream would NEVER happen....and it hit me. It was a dream. However, the thing that tipped me off was not very odd, honestly, though it was slightly unusual. It was, however, plausible and possible. When stranger things happen, I didn't think it all that odd, so I kept thinking it was a dream. So, it's weird how something small happened to tip me off, really.

Anyway, I've been trying a bit to do LD. Recently, I decided to try to LD or AP. I tried a relaxation technique, then said to myself, "I will lucid dream or astral project tonight" over and over again. I've been told, however, that with AP I should say "I am" and not "I will" and with LD I suppose asking, "Am I dreaming" might be more affective than the mantra I chose.

Well after the relaxation and mantras, I meant to catch myself in the hypnagogic state, but I actually caught myself not in hypnagogia, but as I was falling deeper away into sleep. It suddenly hit me that I was falling asleep and I tried to halt the progression. I meant to stop myself right there and try to hover in that mind frame and AP, but it brought me a bit closer to a waking state, which sucked. I tried a pull out motion method in an attempt to AP, which seemed to give me some subtle sensation of movement. I didn't AP or LD that night, but got a little tingly, which I'm told is a good sign as far as AP goes.

I think it didn't work for LD because I wasn't focused solely on that. What are your methods for LD'ing?

BTW, I love your '"...Who will stop me" signature quote.

Thanks for sharing!!

Originally Posted by ObsidianWraith

If I go back to sleep, and float into an LD, is that a WILD? Usually when LD happens, I don't even know why it happens.

That can be either DEILD, WILD, or both, depending on whether or not you were conscious the whole time. I am certainly not an expert in WILD (I've never done it, not once! ) Sounds to me like you WILDed via DEILD, though. It kind of depends on what you were doing as you fell back to sleep.

Originally Posted by ObsidianWraith

The first LD I had which was the most vivid was a DILD, though. I didn't do any reality testing, but suddenly thought to myself that something in the dream would NEVER happen....and it hit me. It was a dream. However, the thing that tipped me off was not very odd, honestly, though it was slightly unusual. It was, however, plausible and possible. When stranger things happen, I didn't think it all that odd, so I kept thinking it was a dream. So, it's weird how something small happened to tip me off, really.

My first lucid was very similar! It was pretty extreme at first, a friend and I were on a trip that wasn't supposed to occur for months, and we were being chased by a woman with a knife because we'd stolen her car Funnily enough the cue I became lucid to is when I realized that that wasn't how you got to our vacation destination, that the road had changed! The brain is a very strange thing I don't think anyone has figured out why in some lucids you know all the way down to your bones that you are in your own dream, and sometimes it is hazy and you simply suspect it, or why the craziest things can be ignored and the slightest oddities cue lucidity. All I know is that if you follow the advice on this site you can absolutely improve your LDing ability!

Originally Posted by ObsidianWraith

Anyway, I've been trying a bit to do LD. Recently, I decided to try to LD or AP. I tried a relaxation technique, then said to myself, "I will lucid dream or astral project tonight" over and over again. I've been told, however, that with AP I should say "I am" and not "I will" and with LD I suppose asking, "Am I dreaming" might be more affective than the mantra I chose.

I'm not sure about APing and what phrasing you are supposed to use to AP, but for lucid dreaming MILD is definitely an effective technique, especially when you combine with autosuggestion like you did. I think as long as your mindframe is in the right place that the words are pretty irrelevant, as long as it is some derivative of "I want to lucid dream. Next time I am dreaming, I want to remember that I am dreaming." but I may be wrong. I have read in EWOLD that you don't want to say "I WILL HAVE A LUCID TONIGHT!" because then if you don't, your faith in yourself may falter. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Originally Posted by ObsidianWraith

I think it didn't work for LD because I wasn't focused solely on that. What are your methods for LD'ing?

For LDing I keep it to dream journals (which I've been slacking), reality checks, and I just rely on DILDs. I haven't been able to successfully WILD yet but I haven't really dedicated myself to the task. I do use autosuggestion and some VILD but like I said, the VILD has never worked for me. Sometimes I'll get non-lucids about slightly related topics to what I visualized, though.

Originally Posted by ObsidianWraith

BTW, I love your '"...Who will stop me" signature quote.

Thanks, it's a quote from the book The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand

I would think it meant that there is a lesser chance of becoming lucid without trying when you get older...

Shift,
Thanks for explaining that to me. I remember thinking it might have been a DEILD now, but I'd forgotten about that. I wasn't very familiar with the diff. types of inducing lucid dreams because I'm still learning, so I'd forgotten about it.

Also thanks for the advice on using suggestions and MILD. I'll look into that. And thanks for the advice to say "want" instead of "will".

I have never read Ayn Rand, but I believe that is the author my friend was praising. I should look into their work.

By the way, I slack on my dream journal, as well. I was recording sporadically and wish I had continued, but I quit. I need to start again, including recording old dreams that I still recall to one degree or another.

Originally Posted by Shift

Thanks for sharing!!
My first lucid was very similar! It was pretty extreme at first, a friend and I were on a trip that wasn't supposed to occur for months, and we were being chased by a woman with a knife because we'd stolen her car Funnily enough the cue I became lucid to is when I realized that that wasn't how you got to our vacation destination, that the road had changed!

I know what you mean. I mean, I have dreamed of monsters, being able to fly, etc. and I dont' realize I'm dreaming. Often with flying I realize it is special, but I think I just have an amazing gift and woohoo, magic is real! Or something along those lines. Once, I thought demons shouldn't be real- at least not corporeal- when dealing with some zombie like creature in my dreams (and thinking he was a demon), but I didn't realize it was a dream. Often I don't even realize things are that strange.

In my first lucid dream, I was just hanging out in a store I was in fairly regularly, and this girl had been talking to me, and had decided to stay all night with me that night. After she walked off to do her thing before stopping by my home, and to leave me to do my browsing in the store, it dawned on that this particular person would never stay all night with me. Then it hit me. I was dreaming. Truth is, it wasn't that far out of the realm of possibiliy, but it triggered a suspicion that it wasn't really happening and suddenly I was very aware, consciously thinking, and knew it was a dream. Unfortunately, the surprise caused it to end shortly afterwards.

Originally Posted by Shift

I don't think anyone has figured out why in some lucids you know all the way down to your bones that you are in your own dream, and sometimes it is hazy and you simply suspect it, or why the craziest things can be ignored and the slightest oddities cue lucidity.

Yeah, it is truly odd. I also wonder, why certain things stick in our memory- simple things, sometimes insignificant things, it seems- and yet, other things do not, even though they seem more like things one would recall.

By the way, I tried to AP last night, but I fell asleep. I was so tired, and I was using a relaxation technique and visualization. I planned to give myself conscious suggestions later, but had yet to start giving myself any other than "relax''- and I fell asleep. When I woke up, I didn't feel tired even though I hadn't had enough sleep, so I tried to meditate again, hoping to AP, but I fell asleep again and slept for HOURS. LOL. I was afraid I wasn't relaxing enough, but maybe I was mistaken!

Originally Posted by ObsidianWraith

I have never read Ayn Rand, but I believe that is the author my friend was praising. I should look into their work.

By the way, I slack on my dream journal, as well. I was recording sporadically and wish I had continued, but I quit. I need to start again, including recording old dreams that I still recall to one degree or another.

Glad I could help Ayn Rand has some very interesting books, I think everyone ought to read some of them. They really make you think

I started keeping my dream journal again, and instantly starting having long vivid dreams with all 5 senses again. I can't believe I slacked off, I will never do that again

I have noticed that l've been lucid dreaming less than since I was about six.

I hope it doesn't get much worse.

like muscle, if you don't use it, it atrophies.

if on the other hand, you keep working out, you get stronger as time goes by.

REM sleep in a zombie population declines with age; because the zombies don't
access theta and they don't have any real use for inter-hemisphere communications which they ignore or choose to see as "not real" anyways.

IE; if you never listen, eventually, the subconscious mind takes the hint and quits bothering to try to speak.

All that such statistics prove is that the USA population is mentally caged.
It doesn't have anything to do with human potential, its simply a reflection
of social and cultural norms which have relegated "spirituality" to the province of con artists.

Yeah, it is truly odd. I also wonder, why certain things stick in our memory- simple things, sometimes insignificant things, it seems- and yet, other things do not, even though they seem more like things one would recall.
-------
The neural networks happened to favor the one memory via random chance.
ie, your ganglia were having a party at the site you had a memory at and they
were sleeping or absent at the site you didn't.

You use lots of big words.

making me the subject is a convenient way to miss the point.

smoke screen arcade? huh?

Well, i guess we know the limits of your attention span.

but, just so you know- reading a dictionary isn't any harder than reaching level
43.

Originally Posted by seinfeld55

Hello, I was just reading a wikipedia article that had some kind of tutorial for lucid dreaming, and it said that lucid dreaming gets harder as you get older. It said that it gets harder during the teenage years and after. Is this true? I know that wikipedia isn't always legitimate, but I've been lucid dreaming for several years, and I'm a little freaked out about this. Does anyone know what this is about?

Well, I can't say it's gotten harder for me as I age (I am in my 30's). It's actually gotten easier, only because I didn't know I was lucid dreaming when I was younger.

My earliest memories of lucid dreams are when I was in the 5th grade. I remember knowing I was dreaming, and being able to make myself fly, but that was the extent. I didn't know I could control my dreams, or that I was indeed "lucid".

About 5yrs ago I found out that what I was experiencing had a name, and many people did it. I researched it, and have gotten a lot better at it, especially with techniques and such.

I'm not sure if it's the same for everyone, but for me, it seems to be easier to become lucid than when I was younger. I have LD's about 4 to 5 times a week, whereas, when I was younger, it was about once a month, maybe more, I can't really remember.

So, in my exeperience, it has become easier. I just hope it doesn't get harder.

Originally Posted by prometheuspan

like muscle, if you don't use it, it atrophies.

if on the other hand, you keep working out, you get stronger as time goes by.
.

I'm not sure I agree with this, but you could have a point.*shrugs*

I think I went about six or seven years (about the time I gave birth to my children) without giving much thought to my LD's. I did have them. Far and few between. I don't think my LD's ever "atrophied", though. There have been times where I really work at them, but crap happens. And there are the times where I don't give them a second thought, and I get lucid every damn night of the week.

I don't know. I guess, each individual is different.

'm not sure I agree with this, but you could have a point.*shrugs*

I think I went about six or seven years (about the time I gave birth to my children) without giving much thought to my LD's. I did have them. Far and few between. I don't think my LD's ever "atrophied", though.
---------
Its not the LDs that atrophy, its the strength of the alpha level mind.
remember lucid dreaming is just a bell curve or set of bell curves;
arbitrary measurements mostly.

As usual, i'm at a loss as to how anybody could fail to appreciate what i see
as self evident. If you don't agree, i guess, i'm curious as to why.

-------------



There have been times where I really work at them, but crap happens. And there are the times where I don't give them a second thought, and I get lucid every damn night of the week.
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This is attributable to several different causal factors. The atrophy rate is very slow, so you have to be 50 years old to notice it.
---------

I don't know. I guess, each individual is different.
---------
Each individual is somewhat different but for the most part the general principles remain the same.

IE there are clear laws at work in the universe and they are constants.

Understanding those laws allows you a doorway of opportunity to create
a technological application of them; for instance, lucid dreaming. The more you understand, the better your applications are going to be.

Lucid dreaming like most of reality is all about cause and effect. Just because most people don't know enough to see the underlying causes doesn't mean that they are not there, or, that they are not more or less universal to everyone.