Thread: I am a shaman

Originally Posted by sivason

I could have done much better and said much better with this thread.

I feel you have communicated very clearly and soundly today, enough so to deserve an apology. I am sorry I took your first post as confusing and needy. I am sorry if it made you feel alienated. It was rude of me, and I am sorry for that.

I will admit that I was drinking when I made my posts, and that makes me less sensitive to how others will take my comments. But, your first post was weird, so perhaps like me you are more sober or sound today than the day you posted it? Either way, good job on explaining yourself today. The example you gave just now of how your post could have gone actually sounds good. I know you are being sarcastic when you say it, and I deserve that, but actually why the sarcasm. The thing you just said would have led to open non-snide discussion.

Ahh yes I was too drinking a bit at the time, hence the whole ideal behind the topic, I mean, why not have your crisis while drinking and meditating.
Sorry if I took the sarcasm overboard I was trying to be quick about it and not sound obtrusive but I wanted to capture as much of the post as possible and well, it was a mess honestly.
And perhaps I was a little butt-hurt by your comment because well, you're a mod and it resonated a lot more than most posts.
I appreciate the apology immensely and while yes, even if my original post seems crazy I do stand by it more or less. And yea, it wasn't really explained well, I was just venting how I felt and was really really hoping nobody replied on it. I just wanted to permanently vent and DV is the most accepting beautiful community I could think of.
Again, sorry for the sarcasm, it's hard to detect who is actually being a troll for the sake of it and who just thinks your crazy. Too much internetz.

What a happy ending!

Originally Posted by Nhuc

While Shamanistic beliefs can be brought into a religious light, It would be best for everyone to wave the idea and instead focus on the core ideals and stray away from what spirits, or the afterlife is unless it can be explained in scientific terms, not only for the promotion of ideals through the board but also for easier peer to peer relationships.

I brought in the religious aspect because B12 was being very mystical. I am pretty fluid in terms of looking at the world from different religious points of views and also secular ones. I agree that it is healthy to look at shamanism with secular glasses. But I disagree that it should be limited to a scientific view. I think that thinking with more "religious" views sometimes have real practical benefits but I do encourage doing so with healthy skepticism. I often tell myself "You know nothing" in a friendly way. The way I see something, my believes, they affect me but not the truth and I always remember that. That's why I am always listening to what different views have to say about one thing.

Anyways, I am happy you clarified your feelings to us. It was a fun/inspiring read. My response is the same as the first, a friendly:

You know what to do then!

(May you become what you were meant to be!)

Originally Posted by Occipitalred

What a happy ending!




I brought in the religious aspect because B12 was being very mystical. I am pretty fluid in terms of looking at the world from different religious points of views and also secular ones. I agree that it is healthy to look at shamanism with secular glasses. But I disagree that it should be limited to a scientific view. I think that thinking with more "religious" views sometimes have real practical benefits but I do encourage doing so with healthy skepticism. I often tell myself "You know nothing" in a friendly way. The way I see something, my believes, they affect me but not the truth and I always remember that. That's why I am always listening to what different views have to say about one thing.

Anyways, I am happy you clarified your feelings to us. It was a fun/inspiring read. My response is the same as the first, a friendly:

You know what to do then!

(May you become what you were meant to be!)

\\

Ahh I don't mean to lessen your voice, but since shamanism does derive from animism, it in itself should be limited. It isn't nearly as refined as say, Taoism or the like, and being such a primal ideology focusing on how it relates to the physical realm would probably be the best course of action. Even though in itself it is extremely spiritual. Thank you for taking the time to comment and read and for the encouragement.
Ps. If we are to talk about shamanism from a religious standpoint I feel like anybody not extremely knowledgeable on the point would feel confused. And it would all seem very odd to everyone involved lol.

You would be better served by just walking the walk and not talking the talk.

Spoiler for My Worldview and Stuff:

Originally Posted by Nhuc

Since shamanism does derive from animism, it in itself should be limited. It isn't nearly as refined as say, Taoism or the like, and being such a primal ideology focusing on how it relates to the physical realm would probably be the best course of action. Even though in itself it is extremely spiritual.

Animism is a religious worldview (by my definition) and I have been impressed by the effects of seeing the world through those glasses at time. It has also helped me understand other religions, especially something my Krishna Consciousness teacher had told me. I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying since you say animism is not as refined as Taoism because this should not be relevant. Let me further explain... This is my personal philosophy. See this picture with the arrows:

Spoiler for Arrow Image:

Well, there's only one picture, just the way that there is only one truth in this world. However, we can either see black arrows pointing left or white arrows pointing right. You may just see one image first, and it will be harder to see the second image but if you try, you will. In the same sense, I think every worldview is like a perspective of this optic illusion. There are many worldviews. None is the truth. But all are part of it. And whichever way you see the world will affect how you behave in that world and how you feel within yourself.

So although I don't think animism is true in the sense that there literally is a soul in every object and animal, it does have real practical benefits when I view the world that way.

Now, in the case of shamanism. If you decide that you can only evaluate it in terms of science, well that seems impossible to me. Science is not a worldview, it is a compilation of repeatable observations that give us power of prediction. Spirituality is mostly introspection (I believe) and introspection is not considered science.

Maybe what you meant was to use a materialist worldview in which the world is solely made of matter and energy and that consciousness arises from that. Sure. It's a simple philosophy. I think it's the default philosophy I use when talking to people. It's easy to relate to because it makes very few assumptions. As far as I am concerned, I don't find many more benefits in it than that.

Anyways, to put all in perspective, I only started talking about this because B12 said we couldn't understand this thing a shaman said and then I assumed it must have been a non-scientific statement or else there would of been no reason not to say it. So I gave an anecdote of a religious person who shared the name of her god not to give understanding but to purify people. I was hoping B12 would share more of his knowledge, if he felt like he could purify us by telling us. Personally, it makes little sense to me that we would be purified by hearing any word, but I think that if people at least say something, there is more chance that we will ever understand it. And although I don't follow Krishna Consciousness, I have started repeating "Hare Krishna" sometimes because I like the taste of it in my mouth and the way it resonates in my ears. It's become a mantra that brings about a sense of self-awareness in me. And although I've tried to make myself a neutral mantra, it never works as well as this one, because this one has history.

Originally Posted by Nhuc

PS. If we are to talk about shamanism from a religious standpoint I feel like anybody not extremely knowledgeable on the point would feel confused. And it would all seem very odd to everyone involved lol.

I spoiler-ed this conversation because I'm not even too sure it is relevant to what you were saying. I completely agree with you, that you wanted to express how you felt, and there's no better place than the internet. Obviously, we all come off as arrogant on the internet, because we are mostly talking with ourselves in front of a computer. We talk differently than with real people. It's good. It gives us the ability to open up more. Too bad it's hard to see that when we read other people's comments and think how weird that would be if someone said that in real life. Obviously, I see why you would say that your experience does not rely on any religious belief. That makes total sense, I wasn't trying to say otherwise.

Being evil, I really don't care that people that aren't extremely knowledgeable on the point might get confused. The internet is very tedious. I can barely find any information about different worldviews on it. So if anyone on a forum is willing to give their complicated worldview, I will be excited to hear it. It's better than a crossword puzzle. If people don't get it, well too bad. (we can just re-explain if they truly want to understand).

To conclude I understand that you might not want to use another worldview than the materialist worldview to describe your experience to us since materialism is the reference worldview that everyone can understand without additional assumptions. However, if you are still feeling like venting and talking about yourself, I am genuinely interested to learn more about your exploration of mysticism. I would be interested to hear some experiences or even a worldview that you use to explain this to yourself. In any case, I might be able to use what you say as new glasses to see the world. I love collecting those perspective glasses. And yes, you might be scared to sound dumb but that's the consequence of writing on a forum. I know that what you will write will merely be a simplification of your experience so explaining your experience will in no way taint or blemish the truth of your experience, it will merely make you a better communicator of it. I invite you to tell us more, if you are comfortable. (And too bad for anyone who can't follow)

Originally Posted by Nhuc

Thank you for taking the time to comment and read and for the encouragement.

Thank you

I'm not sure how to use the spoiler tag to hide long quotes so I just won't quote so I hope you'll see this anyway. I pretty much can see and agree with everything you've said because well, that was possible the most well thought out and spot on reply i've seen ever.
To focus just on your conclusion yea, I feel like most of my actual thoughts sound insane and well... crazy. Not that I mean them to be, but, I'm sure the people who believe in the Illuminati Lizard uprising honestly believe what they say.

I'm not too sure where to start so I'll try to make it brief and summarize unless you want me to talk more. My grandma was a practitioner of the sort, and well, realizing she was getting older she tried to take her youngest daughter under her wing but her daughter had two kids and a husband at the time, working most of the day, plus she was a devote catholic. She instead turned to my dad but he was always a child in an adults mind. While I was left to be raised with my grandparents she focused on me instead. It was all small things, how to handle a specific situation with the family, how to treat people. Then she started introducing me to drugs to "raise my perception." Not heroin or anything of course. But how to drink correctly (which I still don't do lol.) for example, How to guide people through hallucinogenic trips, and what to look for when your on them. She talked to me about her dreams and about mine. I had always been interested in mysticism. For example I've read the Gates easily 20 times, and the Tao te Ching hundreds. I've always been open to others beliefs and I do think we all stem from the same ideas. I'm not to sure how to explain what I do. I've let people live with me, and helped them get their lives together. I've given people apartments to stay at. I never charge anything and usually the nights are full of small rituals and trips for them while I sit, guide them, and talk. Recently I've been in a slump and haven't been doing much of anything except focusing on school and it really bothers me. I know I could be doing something to help the people around me who need it but, recently I can't find it in me. It's a sickening feeling.
As for what I believe, since well.... this is the extended discussion so I guess I can lay a few things out.
For what I understand of Quantum physics and taoist ideals. Which I suppose might be nothing
The first is that regardless of what I do now, it will have no real effect on anything impact-full, so I could never do enough good.
The second, When I die at the only death I will fully experience, I think It'll be just like my calling. I felt the greatest sense of doom. Doom. and then, i can't even say I didn't care. Because there was nothing for me. I wasn't floating, I wasn't anything. I just knew for the smallest degree of a second that I wasn't done. But, at that moment I won't be able to continue.
The third, it's easier to do the correct thing, than the right thing.
And for now the last, I really don't know anything and i'm more likely than not to be a complete idiot because my perception on the world doesn't match even a percent of everyone else. So while it may be true for me, in everyone elses eyes, it's not.

If you have any questions ill be glad to answer them but, I think that's enough from me for now, I'm sure the mods are already eyeing me pretty hard for being crazy lol. but then again, that might just be me thinking I'm more special then I am to warrant it. Ahhh, how difficult things can be made out to be.

Thanks for the insight Nhuc.

I am too busy this period of the year to discuss this much. But I am happy I read it.

(Surely, you will have an impact given everything in the future has a cause in the past, and you are one of these causes) Follow your destiny!