Thread: REM Dreamer - Cheaper NovaDreamer

Wow..seems to be the same principle. Im considering actually purchasing it. Though Id hate to ever become dependant on a machine. I hear these machines are quite effecitve, so maybe Ill give it a try.

what if they break down though... they seem awfully fragile to me.

And erh won't the flashing affect the dream too much? Could be that if it flashes all the time the dreams aren't fun anymore.

if it works it beats WBTB though

We're all perfectly capable of having LD's without the aid of an machine. Why bother.

I thought it was just supposed to turn the lights on which makes the dream get brighter. Or maybe thats the other one. I dont know if I would want to go through a dream with flashing goig on!

Originally posted by Kaniaz
We're all perfectly capable of having LD's without the aid of an machine. Why bother.

Because some people find it extremly hard to have lucid dreams? Just because people have the capacity to do something, doesn't mean it's easy. Everyone can run but not everyone can run a marathon. That takes a lot of practise. The principle is the same for lucid dreaming. I think that the more you lucid dream the easier it becomes to Lucid dream because your brain is recognising the state more commonly and so it is more easily attainable. Therfore using the REM Dreamer or NovaDreamer as a training device to adjust the brain to LD'ing would mean you could stop using it after a while. I find all the talk of "It's not natural" to be a bit odd frankly. Driving a car somewhere isn't natural but it does the job more quickly than the nautural way.

yea someone buy that rem dreamer quik and let me know all about how it works before i spend money on it . and yea i agree, maybe everyone can have LD's but i personally am not too good at it and if i could put that on and have one when i wanted would be a beautiful thing

Has Anyone Bought this REM dreamer yet?

Not me! I cannot stand to have anything on my face when I sleep.
Anyway, if I had $147 to spare, I'd probably spend it on another hard drive

Ok, I'm just replying to this in the hopes that some folks new to the forum will notice this device for the first time, decide to purchase one, and report back with their results.

This looks like it has potential, but I have neither the guts nor the cash to buy one...yet.

So, any financially comfortable LD'ers here wanna help the rest of us with some reviews?

Please?

there was a thread about this at ld4all

i would be a bit scared... 1- because of the similarities to the nova dreamer, it looks like a perect clone, so you have to wonder how legally the company functions.
2- because you're basically buying it from an unknown company with a pretty cheap website... meaning it's a small company (one or two or three people making these)... MEANING it can close down at any time without any big consequence to them.. you on the other hand would be stuck without tech support, or without a mask.

also, it's not a miracle solution, it still requires time and effors, and if you can do that WITH the rem dreamer or any nova dreamer clone, you can certainly do that without the rem dreamer and probably be just as succesful...

and my last point has to be the pricing... while the nova dreamer was supporting research (so basically your money went to the lucidity institute so they could buy equipment, etc)... these clones are just cash machines... they take about 20$ to make, so you HAVE to understand when buying one of those you're basically getting ripped off... their intentions are not offering you a good lucid dreaming research tool or continuing research, they're just interested in milking the money... so you have to question the quality of the mask.

now, i'm not saying i wouldn't get one hehe. if i would have the money i would, why not. but if it takes a financial effort to put your hands on one, they're certainly not worth it.

Ok, well let's see here:

1. Yes, it's obviously a similiar product but that doesn't necessarily make it illegal or unethical. If people didn't find ways to clone and improve upon other people's products we would all be driving slow paced, unattractive cars with terrible fuel efficiency. Competition inspires progress. I hope more companies decide to take on the Nova Dreamer in a free market.

And yes, it would seem the company is small. But then the first airplane was invented by two men in a bicycle shop of all places. So when it comes to technology, size does not always matter.

2. Maybe it's not a mircale solution. I'm not looking for one anyway. I'm looking for assistance in training myself to have lucid dreams, like many other folks here. If LaBerge could do it without his invention and believed he could teach others to do the same, why did he invent it? Hmmm I wonder...

3. I can't believe you're going to sit there and say that if a lucky few of us can manage to part with $500 for a Nova Dreamer that's fine because it supports LaBerge's agenda. But if a much larger percentage of people are able to access the same assistance for much less money, they're being ripped off?!?

What if I don't feel charitable and just want to help myself have lucid dreams? How does giving LaBerge my money do me any favors? If the other folks make more cash off it, but charge me less, I think I'll be able sleep at night.

To me, the real irony is that if, as you say, the machine only costs $20 to build, and LaBerge is such a humanitarian, why is he catering to the upper class with unnecessarily high cost equipment and Lucid Dreaming seminars in Hawaii?

How many times have you seen someone say, "I would buy a Nova dreamer if I could afford one..." ?

If he's so interested in furthering the cause of lucid dreaming, shouldn't he be doing his best to help more people become lucid dreamers so they in turn can tell others how wonderful it is? Seems to me, if the technology works, he should want everyone to have a chance to utilize it, not to further his personal glory as a scientist.

[/RANT]

Wow.. I'm almost afraid to admit I own a NovaDreamer - I can feel the flames already!

Do I regret purchasing it.. not for a second (I paid $219.00 for mine back in 1998). I had my FIRST lucid dream the first time I wore it.

Not to say that will happen for everyone but it did start me on my journey. Also a "NovaDreamer" does not guarantee success without EFFORT (I think I was just lucky in that my subconscious is very open to suggestion and I respond pretty well).

You still have to do reality checks regarding noticing lights in your waking life so that you'll recognize lights in your dreams. There are also lessons to do and practice. There was also a book to read by LaBerge and a cassette tape that you listened to that helped you relax and get in the proper mindset while wearing the mask.

Let's not forget that you also have to adjust to sleeping with a mask (that does have a tiny bit of weight) on your face. What made this a real challange for me was that I had always slept on my side.

Now my NovaDreamer also came with a FULL REFUND GUARANTEE if I decided to return it so I really had nothing to lose by getting it and so much to gain if it worked. It's been 6+ years and it still functions :-)

I did stop seeing the cues after a couple of months (and was able to LD on my own).. but was it an investment I personally would make again.. yes, without hesitation.

I don't know anything about the mask you're thinking of buying but, if it was me and I had the money to spare, I'd go for it (cuz if I didn't, I'd always wonder what would have happened if I had).

ok.. Let the flames begin!

P.S.. If you have seizures.. you probably should stay away or clear using such devices with your doctor.

You'll get no flames from me Clarity.

I'm happy for anyone who can afford a Nova Dreamer or achieve LD's naturally. I just want to maximize my own chances for LD's as well as other folks like me who don't have the spare $500.

But I appreciate your posting your experience, cuz it helps me feel even more inclined to get the cheaper version. I just really wanna see a couple reviews first...

In the mean time I'm strongly considering buying a Strobe Light and a Timer at Walmart for like $30 and seeing how that goes. I just hope my wife doesn't mind...

As a rule of thumb for all you people, always research something and consider it as much as you can if it's upwards of $100.

Originally posted by Pandragon
Ok, well let's see here:

1. Yes, it's obviously a similiar product but that doesn't necessarily make it illegal or unethical. If people didn't find ways to clone and improve upon other people's products we would all be driving slow paced, unattractive cars with terrible fuel efficiency. Competition inspires progress. I hope more companies decide to take on the Nova Dreamer in a free market.

2. Maybe it's not a mircale solution. I'm not looking for one anyway. I'm looking for assistance in training myself to have lucid dreams, like many other folks here. If LaBerge could do it without his invention and believed he could teach others to do the same, why did he invent it? Hmmm I wonder...

3. I can't believe you're going to sit there and say that if a lucky few of us can manage to part with $500 for a Nova Dreamer that's fine because it supports LaBerge's agenda. But if a much larger percentage of people are able to access the same assistance for much less money, they're being ripped off?!?
[/RANT]

well, the problem with the small company is not that it's wrong or dangerous to buy from one... but take for instance Wellness Tools... it's ONE GUY making those light and sound machines and selling them for hundreds... What happened in the past? He went bankrupt MORE than once, people did not get their devices, they did not get their money and were left in the dark. Just look it up and you'll see Wellness Tools, as a company, has a VERY BAD record. So i'd keep away from that too (and the Dream Maker clone, which doesn't even appear anywhere on his site, where are pictures of the product?). AND there's no mention of the Lucidity Institute site for a collaboration with him (as the guy claims)...

This is the only reason i say keep away from these small companies, unless you KNOW FOR CERTAIN it's a trust-worthy company.

And i didn't say it wouldn't work, i'm sure it does (i built my own Kvasar mask, and I've been toying with home made light machines and stuff like that as well... i wouldn't if i would think it's a waste of time)... I'm just saying for some, it doesn't as easily as for others...

As for the third point, I don't think spending 500$ on anything to help you with lucid dreaming is a good idea (unless it's a pill that will make you lucid dream at will for the rest of your life, guaranteed and without effort on my part)... The nova dreamer went for about 300 from the lucidity institute, 250$ or so... the reason it sold for 800$ was because of the retailers... which is another rip off. They basically pay the institute 250$ (some 200$ worth of profit) and they make 200% profit on their own, FOR NO REASON other than re-selling you the mask... which is really absurd.

Of course it makes more sense to buy it for 150$ rather than 250$ (or 300$)... and i mean 150$ is not even THAT much. I'd just be worried about the company going away one day. The nova dreamer at least was attached to an institute that has a history and I doubt they'd try to rip off people. IF however I'd have the money to spend, I'd rather pay the little extra and buy one from the lucidity institute. The hawaii part need not apply... they make profit out of that too, so the nova dreamer doesn't necessarily cover for that. Lab equipment however is very very expensive... Maybe they were used to that when they priced it that high. If you're working in medical labs where a simple electrodermal meter is 1000$, selling your product for 250, 300 or even 400 doesn't seem like much... Of course, from there to how much the retailers charged for it... yeah.

To me, the real irony is that if, as you say, the machine only costs $20 to build, and LaBerge is such a humanitarian, why is he catering to the upper class with unnecessarily high cost equipment and Lucid Dreaming seminars in Hawaii?[/b]

If you think about it... the money you pay for the seminar in Hawaii mostly covers for the plane ticket and the housing there. Yeah, you pay a good chunk to the guy and surely he gets a trip to hawaii for free... And I'm not saying he's the most sensitive guy when it comes to other people's money... But at least he wrote decent books and he's beed such an important figure in lucid dreaming that without him you probably wouldn't even be here... For that alone I think he deserves a Hawaii trip once a year.

Anyway, I feel my point was taken the wrong way... I wasn't saying don't buy it... I was saying when you DO buy it, KNOW you're still getting ripped off (in that the price you're paying is much more than you should have to) and if you're ok with that, that's fine. I know i get ripped off with a lot of things, and i still buy them (call me impulsive hehe) And KNOW when you do buy it that there's a risk you might never get the mask... or get the mask and have it not work... where you'd have to find out just how good their tech support is.

All i'm saying is it's a risky thing to do, and I'd wait until the REM Dreamer has a bit more history and a wider market. This way you'd know the chances of paying for nothing are less. I've heard of many people getting tricked through the internet, and it's not hard to do... a webpage on a public server, registered through an annonymous e-mail account and a P/O box for money orders and cheques is quite the annonymous thing... I could be selling my own version of the nova dreamer, for 100$! Pre-order today, the first batch will be shipped in 3 months... If i get 10 orders (1000$) I can just dissapear and you'd never know who you paid the money to. And I'm not saying that's the kind of people the makers of the REM Dreamer are... I'm just saying be careful since it seems all they did was take a nova dreamer, clone it, and sell it.

I have nothing against owners of the Nova Dreamer either. I'd actually get one if I could afford it, knowing I may be getting ripped off... And I'm very happy for those who DID order an REM Dreamer, recieved it in working condition... and did the trick for them... Thing is, i haven't heard of anyone yet, so until then I wouldn't want to try it out.

either ways, all this will be worked out when microsoft or apple get into lucid dreaming... then you'd pay 30$ for the machine (that would then cost 5$ to mass produce) and make mr gates that much richer... which in itself is still a sort of rip off, but a much cheaper one for the consumer (probably a lot more morally wrong though).

You know, it would be tight to use one of those timer micro chips and program it to turn on those LEDS at whatever time interval you want. That way the device would be wireless!

Originally posted by ErikW
You know, it would be tight to use one of those timer micro chips and program it to turn on those LEDS at whatever time interval you want. *That way the device would be wireless!

I think the idea of Nova Dreamer is that it's watching your eye movement, and recognizes when you get into REM-stage. It would be practically impossible to program a timer so that the light's are on when you dream.

Originally posted by hate+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hate)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-ErikW

You know, it would be tight to use one of those timer micro chips and program it to turn on those LEDS at whatever time interval you want. *That way the device would be wireless!

I think the idea of Nova Dreamer is that it's watching your eye movement, and recognizes when you get into REM-stage. It would be practically impossible to program a timer so that the light's are on when you dream.[/b]

if you signal every 90 minutes, chances are very high that by morning you'll hit a REM period... of course it's not very reliable, but it's very cheap to build.

if you go in the research forum, we're making significant progress with a device that will (hopefully) be able to signal REM by means of electrodermic activity across the skin. right now the device uses wires. It connects to the computer in the spirit of the GSR2, but we'll have a bit more dream-research oriented functionality to it. check it out, it's pretty cool... and if it works, we'll eventually try to make it wireless.

Someone's currently selling one on ebay, if you're interested (still at a high price).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ssPageName=WDVW

its doable trust me. Plus if you have it go off every half and hour you can be sure that it might go off during your dream... plus the circuit is very simple. One problem... did you know in NREM your eyes move too. I took a phycology class and they said REM is not where your eyes move, but where they move faster than normal, so its called Rapid Eye Movement not Eye Movement.

Oh also this chip is called the 555 timer chip by the way. Go here to learn about it: http://www.sxlist.com/techref/logic/555s.htm
Now all you need is a soldering iron, some wires, a wire stripper, some solder, a testing board, then one of those circuit boards from radio shack with holes. Then pin 7 and 8 connect to a battery. Seems that web site does not explain it well, but im sure theres some chip out there where you can have the time delay in hours.

I'm thinking i'll wait it out until price drops down to $19.95 and I see it on a television commercial.

Originally posted by Lucky27
I'm thinking i'll wait it out until price drops down to $19.95 and I see it on a television commercial.

it's most likely going to be three simple payments of 19,99 and if you call in the next half hour they'll include not ONE!!! BUT THREE REM DREAMERS !!! (even if you only want one)

Originally posted by MeusOpusMagnus
if you go in the research forum, we're making significant progress with a device that will (hopefully) be able to signal REM by means of electrodermic activity across the skin. right now the device uses wires. It connects to the computer in the spirit of the GSR2, but we'll have a bit more dream-research oriented functionality to it. check it out, it's pretty cool... and if it works, we'll eventually try to make it wireless.

Yep - watch out for the release of the new DreamCatcher glove/mask
Meus and me are working together to bring you a decent alternative to the high prices and discomfort
And to boot, you get a whole bunch of extra research-capable features that the novadreamer does not offer

Thanks for working on a reasonably priced alternative guys. Will you be creating a version that does not have to connect to a computer?