Thread: The Nature of Dream Control

Originally Posted by Wicked

OK, the part about schemes was clear, even though I don't see how that's relevant to LDs. But the AI part... it's like it's Chinesse.

I was trying to show the various types of links that are made in relation to things you focus your attention on in dreams. For any object, person or concept, you attach to it a great many associations in order to define it.

For whatever main elements you are fixated on in a dream, it's these associations that begin to appear in the dream. This happens weather it's a normal dream or a lucid dream.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Anyone have any thoughts on weather emotions are something that require your attention to exist, or whether they they are independent entities?

Judging something when emotions are in play is quite difficult. Every time that I fight I feel a sense of exhilaration and invincibility that is just beyond words to describe. I feel like i am ultimately powerful. At that moment there is no such thing as defeat. It does not exist. There is only my blazing heart.
I certainly feel like emotions need attention, but there is also something other, something that i really can't put my finger on yet (these things come to me pretty soon if i intend them to).
Maybe emotion is a different kind of focus? One that is more centered "within" the observer (the point of consciousness that I feel as the source of my senses), or in this case the feeler.

Originally Posted by Soldier

you've had alot on your mind I'd advise people not to skim over this, I had to read that 3 times to grasp what your saying and you've opened the door on a few subjects. emotions- I never really thought that would have effects on your dream, I'll use that to my advantage. attention tech- one thing I've had trouble with is boobs, I like your bad teeth example because that ties in with my problem. when I go to fuck a girl I take off her shirt and her tits are terrible not just small but oddly shaped, the more I'd look at them the worse they would get. I've yet to solve this problem and I think you have the answer but how do I look at the good side with them?

Haha, no luck. I think that is rather odd actually.

i think the answer would be to have an expectation of good boobs before taking off the shirt. and not just, "i don't want them to be ugly" - negatives work the same as you saying "her boobs are ugly". imagine the most beautiful pair of boobs alive that would make even the dalai-lama cry.

Tonight i experimented how emotions affect the dreamscape. I was in a semi-lucid state while running through a corridor with a corner after every 5 meters or so.
First I used fear: I became very fearful of what might lay ahead in the hallway. Sure enough, monsters started popping up (who i then dispensed with a "will projectile").
When i had enough of this and two very menacing beast-humans appeared, I changed my mood into happy. INSTANTANEOUSLY, the 2 beastmen turned into my best friends with smiles on their faces
After that I became fully lucid.

Good stuff Anomanderis, I'm glad to see you're getting the hang of it.

I had a normal dream the other night, in a grocery store where the customers were shopping peacefully. Then I started beating up this illuminati guy, and they all started rioting and looting. And that's when the werewolves showed up...

Strong emotions have a humongous impact on dreams. That probably deserves it's own rule.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

I would like some feedback on this. I could go on and on, but if nobody cares, I'll keep it to myself.

One of the most interesting reads I had on lucid dreaming in a while, so don't hold back with your information, you really seem to know what you're talking about. Anyway, this will be very useful for me when dreaming, just what I was looking for

Thank you Cusp! This is all understandable (even if a takes a few readings), important, useable information. I read this thread last night, decided to simply be mindful of how my attention and emotion affect the dream scape, and already I am seeing serious possibilites.

If you have any more ideas or more indepth explanation I'd love to hear it.

It is so nice to read something well thought out, thought provoking, and useful. I'm subscribing to this thread.

Thanks for all the positive feedback, I really appreciate it. It takes me so long to write out these posts (This measly post took almost 4 hours!).

Real World Applications

For the past month or so, I've been observing how these principles apply to the real world as much as they do to dreaming. But it comes with an extra layer of complexity in the waking world, namely other people. The potential each one of us has using these techniques is phenomenal, and when you consider there are billions of people influencing the world in this manner, the possibilities for conflict or resonance are mind boggling. It would seem that the waking world is just one big shared dream!

So lets start off simple, with an example that happened to me today. There was a dog chained up out back of the neighbour's place where I was working. It seemed friendly and curious, so I let it come up to me and sniff me, no problems, it didn't seem a threat. Then I noticed a sign in the window that said "Beware Guard dog". The moment that sign registered in my mind and I though "Guard dog? Oh oh..." it's demeanor completely changed. It became mean, growled, and tried to bite me. It's like that sign created a link or association to the dog's corresponding behavior. I've been seeing dozens of examples of this daily.

Now to recap my three basic rules in a RL context.


1. Everything in your dreams requires your attention to exist.

I've used this rule effectively in dreams in what I would call a "banishing". Simply ignore something in dreams, put it completely out of your mind, and it will cease to exist.

This type of banishing works in RL too, but people don't cease to exist, they just wander off. Completely ignoring someone is a little rude, but very effective. I've also been using this to ward off unwanted conversation topics, and it works like a charm.

2. The more attention you give to one element, the more detail it creates in relation to what you are focused on.

Carl Jung, the Anti-Freud, had a method where he would write a letter to someone and then not send it. This would invariably result in his target sending him a letter in response to what he had written, even though he never sent it. He was also the one to coin the term "synchronicity", which I believe is a fantastic example of this rule in action.

I have countless examples of this principle in action, as with the incident with the dog I detailed above. There are so many possibilities here, it's almost impossible to properly explain how it works.

Thus far, I've broken this section down into two schools of practice.

A) Achieving specific goals: This is basically what the movie "The Secret" is about. I can't really give specifics on how to do this, as each individual had their own set of associations created through a lifetime of experience. Learning what the main influential associations are to you through dreaming will help you apply this to the real world.

B)Eliminating negative thought patterns: This has been the main focus of my efforts lately. Instead of dwelling on the negative aspects of my life, I do my best to ignore them. According to the first rule, they disappear and cease to create bad situations in accordance with this second rule.

The old saying "The straw that broke the camel's back" applies here. By not dwelling on the things that get on your nerves, you don't get that build up of straw that weighs you down.

Basically, this involves gaining control of your random thoughts that arise during the day, by either consciously directing them, or just putting a stop to the negative ones (which is so hard to do!). Most people arrogantly assume they are in complete control of their thought process, but this couldn't be farther from the truth.

3. Strong emotions have a devastating effect on everything around you.

I've decided to include emotion as a separate rule. I'll come up with a better way to sum it up eventually, but that's pretty much the gist of it for now.

Just look at how you react in the presence of people exhibiting strong emotions, or how other people react to your own strong emotions. Do most people really have a choice in how they react to these emotions? It's like there are unwritten social rules on how we are supposed to react. Even when you think you're masking or hiding your emotions, they still influence people's behavior.

One might think that people are responding to subtle body language, but that's not the case. Now I'm a recovering rageaholic, and I've had a few instances where I was in a room alone and foul mood took ahold of me despite my best efforts. The people in other rooms invariably begin to curse loudly, as if in response to my foul mood. This is the kind of thing dream characters are prone to doing.

Overview
I've had about 6-7 months or so of exploring this in my dreams, but have only been working on the real world applications for about a month. The more I look into it, the more the real world behave like a dream. And of course you know the first thing most people do once they realize they are dreaming is to have lucid sex.

Well, I'm no different. I'm realizing the world is my oyster, or at least a bearded clam. I've been using these principles to get women like you wouldn't believe. The thing is, the type of women that are attracted into my life seem to be influenced by the porn that I watch (Not that I'm complaining!). The real test will come tomrrow when I ask out the girl I'm totally in love with. According to my theory, it should go well, since she's been constantly on my mind.

Now the RL applilcations open up a lot of possibilities for control, but with all the people in the world, there are bound to be people with a will opposed to yours. What happens when two people try to manifest opposing intents? Even in a RL scenario, this brings us into the realm of shared dreaming, which is where I learned all about this.

You don't think I came up with this all by myself do you? Nope, I discovered this after making a challenge in the "Night Stalkers, Dream Walker" thread here: http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=37621
The very reason I think these were shared dream was the mastery these visitors had over attention. A lot of those Night Stalker dreams never make it into my dream journal because they are so difficult to describe. I've been loathe to mention it thus far, lest it undermine the points I'm trying to get across. I do have much more to go into, I just need to find a way to broach the subject properly, plus I have so much to experiment with, I just don't have enough time.

Originally Posted by anomanderis

Tonight i experimented how emotions affect the dreamscape. I was in a semi-lucid state while running through a corridor with a corner after every 5 meters or so.
After that I became fully lucid.

Actually, exploring this seems to induce semi lucid states. I've had dozens of related dreams that I wouldn't exatly call lucid, but seem to be experimenting with these concepts.

I think I might've had the longest lucid to date this morning. But I also think I was mostly semi-lucid for a long while and then in the end became fully lucid.
Here's what was new: when I became fully lucid, I felt a connection with the dreamscape that I had not felt (or noticed) before.
As soon as i started consciously taking over control (trying to take flight, so i could get to the roof, because a dragon with whom i intended to do battle was fast approaching), I felt a weakening of that same connection. And for the first time ever, i failed at flying. I just couldn't do it. It felt wrong.
I think this is an example of a how-to-become-and-be-lucid thread Billybob posted a while ago, where he said that taking conscious control of the dream (forcing control) only serves to separate yourself from the dream and thus shorten lucidity.
Although I couldn't fly, i could still bounce, but when i started using my powers, i lost control over the dreamscape. It started slowly fading out. Then I woke up.


I hadn't really thought of physical "reality" as a shared dream, though I've used the Law of Attraction in my advantage for a while now.
Thanks!
This is something that will help me be more aware in my waking state as well, which I have tried to do in the last few days. (Did you know that snakes will bite those with the mentality of only-a-dead-snake-is-a-good-snake with a much higher probability?)
I think i once broke a bus, because i was in the deepest fit of rage i have ever been in . Plus the fact that in winter it snowed every time i was with my ex-gf or i went into a trance.

(Good luck with the girl. I got my ex-gf with the help of LOA )

First of all, let me apologize for any spelling or grammar errors I may miss. I'm taking cold meds and am a bit out of it.

My goal of simply being obesesrvant of these rules in action during my dreams had interesting results. This is a blow-by-blow rundown. Feel free to scan through, it is kind of dull, but full of detail.

1. I was in a crowded room full of long benches in rows, similar to a church. I wanted to sit by myself. The first few benches I went to had people on them. I became worried and afraid that I would not find an empty bench. And my fear came true. Further I worried that I may have to sit by someone I didn't like, which also came true.

2. A guy is walking behind me with his arms wrapped around me, like he is my boyfriend. I comment that he is stuck to me like glue. Then he holds me even closer, even grasping my wrists. When I become interested in something else and forget about him he dissapears.

3. I and a group of recurring DCs are practicing to put on a musical. I realize I don't know the songs or dances (normally I'd just "give" myself this knowledge in an LD, but as an observer, I don't) and worry that I will mess up. And I do, horribly.

4. We are now performing the musical for an audience. I'm still worried about messing up and embarassing myself. So of course I do. I start to sing at the wrong moment. The DC next to me tells me to shut up. I feel guilty, everyone glares at me. However, interestingly, the "director" or the musical seems more angry at the DC who told me to shut up than at me.

5. I notice an offensive note on a bullitin board. It pisses me off. When I look around there more and more!

6. I'm crawling through the mud trying to steal some water. I notice how deep and sticky the mud is. Immediatly I get stuck. I'm trashing around getting angry, but also kind of having fun when this georgious black guy comes along and pulls me out.

Okay, I could give several more dull examples of these three rules in action, since I had 8 dreams last night, but I think that is PLENTY!

Tonight I'm going to try to use them. Thanks, Cusp, you rock. HARD.

Woul you be willing to say, the Cusp, that both the physical world and dream world abide by the same basic rules?
Only that in the dream world we are godlike.
It has seemed, for me, to be this way after I realized I was using the same technique, the same focus for manipulating the dream world and the physical world (psychokinesis).

At first I found this very interesting and then had to skip through the last few posts. Applying some of this to real life just DOESN'T WORK.

Some of you were saying, if everybody in the world doesn't focus on one thing then it doesn't exist. That's complete stupidity. Sorry, but this world is not a dream, it is not created by our minds. When people talk about us creating our own world (people meaning scientists and philosophers and not crazy 'the secret' people) they are talking about what Cusp was saying in his initial posts; like how he focused on yellow and so later he started noticing everything else that was yellow. You aren't actually MAKING more yellow, just SEEING more yellow.

The Secret talks about all this bs positive energy that influences every living thing.

With the dog getting angry, they are very good at sensing emotion, that's why they are such good companions, they are basically empathetic organisms. The second you felt scared of the dog, you would have sub consciously taken a threatening pose or showed some signs of distress, which the dog would take as a threat or become scared.

This topic started out scientifically, if it's going to take a turn for the paranormal, let me know so I can back out now.

Yes indeed good point. But I think like you say, this isn't bullshit, your MAKING bullshit, by only SEEING the bullshit.

Maybe you need to try and see this from another perspective. Everything you perceive is a dream based on the real world. This dream in your head can be manipulated the same way as you manipulate a dream. And these rules are very similar to alot of selfimprovement and meditation techniques. How far our dream of reality effects reality is another question. But the only way to manipulate reality is through manipulation of the dream of the mind. This dream you see all the time is only an interpretation of reality of your mind. Our physical bodies are what control this world. If yu want to control this world, you need to control the dream that controls your physical body first. This dream is our only connection to reality.

Every single piece of information that is not yet discovered is seen as "paranormal" because it doesn't belong to the normal. This doesn't mean it is false or magic or hocuspocus or anything. The only criteria I use to believe in this, is that it works for me irl too

Originally Posted by anomanderis

Woul you be willing to say, the Cusp, that both the physical world and dream world abide by the same basic rules?
Only that in the dream world we are godlike.

I'd say we are just as godlike in the real world as in dreams. The only difference is that in dreams, there is nobody else to interfere with your will. In RL, there are billions of other godlike people as well. So if you wanted to fly, there are billions of other people who say "No, you can't do that.", thus making it impossible for you to do so. You're just outnumbered.

Tommo, all I can say is you have to learn to see this happening in dreams before you can see in in RL.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

I'd say we are just as godlike in the real world as in dreams. The only difference is that in dreams, there is nobody else to interfere with your will. In RL, there are billions of other godlike people as well. So if you wanted to fly, there are billions of other people who say "No, you can't do that.", thus making it impossible for you to do so. You're just outnumbered.

I also thought about that, but I think its a bit far fetched to believe that if there were no other humans (assuming we are the only intelligent race in the universe, which is far fetched in itself) we'd be able to manipulate physical reality as we wished.
Although, certainly, the mental conditioning of you-can't-do that we have been fracked with since birth, is a bit of a bother....

I don't argue with all facets of the godlike aspect, just the power issue. A bit more work is required than just falling asleep and becoming lucid...

Originally Posted by anomanderis

I also thought about that, but I think its a bit far fetched to believe that if there were no other humans (assuming we are the only intelligent race in the universe, which is far fetched in itself) we'd be able to manipulate physical reality as we wished.
Although, certainly, the mental conditioning of you-can't-do that we have been fracked with since birth, is a bit of a bother....

I don't argue with all facets of the godlike aspect, just the power issue. A bit more work is required than just falling asleep and becoming lucid...

Mankind has always manipulated physical reality as we've pleased. It needn't be through mental super powers, but can come about from science and technology. Any technologically advance people would seem like gods to primitive people.

The development of science could be said to follow these rules as well. Paying attention to a problem or question until you begin to uncover related detail.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Everything you perceive is a dream based on the real world. This dream in your head can be manipulated the same way as you manipulate a dream.

I agree with this, if I understand correctly, that our 'reality' IRL is based on our perception of reality. Correct?

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Every single piece of information that is not yet discovered is seen as "paranormal" because it doesn't belong to the normal.

If it isn't discovered how can it be labeled?
I think you mean everything that isn't explained is seen as paranormal.

Originally Posted by anomanderis

I also thought about that, but I think its a bit far fetched to believe that if there were no other humans (assuming we are the only intelligent race in the universe, which is far fetched in itself) we'd be able to manipulate physical reality as we wished.
Although, certainly, the mental conditioning of you-can't-do that we have been fracked with since birth, is a bit of a bother....

Exactly. Of course the mental conditioning such as parents saying "You're never going to be a famous rapper!" or something, for most people, is going to make them believe they will never be able to do so.

People saying "You can't fly" isn't going to make a god damned difference, because you can't fly anyway! Except in dreams of course.
Gravity prevents us from flying, you can't change gravity with the will of your mind.
Think about it, why would every person in the world believe they cannot fly without machinery in the first place? Because they have tried and it failed. Monkeys saw a bird and thought, I'll try that, those monkeys died. Even though they had no pre-conditioning to the fact that they can't fly.

I think what the Cusp meant with reality as a shared dream was that you don't need to be conditioned for you to fail at flying. When there are a bunch of others, who "create" the universe, then even though you might not be conditioned, you will still be held back by their disbelief.


Seems like my work has started to bring fruit - this morning i managed to have ~4 lucids in 30 minutes or so. I first gained lucidity in school, where there was a Night Event, meaning that only those who are students and were lucid could come there.
In the fourth (I think, my memory is a bit sporadic) and last lucid, I was supposed to fight 5 parents of students, starting with the weakest.
The first one I scared off with willpower alone, but lost to the second.
The objective was to get past him. Our hands were locked and I was trying to phase through him (since i only needed to get past him), but I couldn't do it. I was focusing on his body (which was a weird biostone) and imagined feeling myself passing through, but still..nothing happened.
What the heck, I thought and tried another tactic. I grabbed hold and threw him over me (nelson?) onto the ground, where he managed to keep me pinned and then started chewing on my hand. So I surrendered.

There were 2 things that bothered me about this:
1) Why couldn't I phase through him? Was it because I was focusing too much on his body, thus making it more "solid"?
I though about this after waking up and I think i did focus too much on the body. When I phase through walls, i never focus on the walls themselves, but beyond them.
2) I surrendered way too easily. Had I been semi-lucid, there could have been no way i would have done it. All or nothing, never surrender.
Yet while I was fully lucid, it was different...
Or maybe just because I couldn't get through him, i maybe unconsciously thought that i couldn't beat him.

And btw: my voice is very weird inside dreams! Much weirder than listening to a recording of it.

Thank you Cusp, I thoroughly enjoyed your post(s) and hope you continue posting especially using examples in real life.

Also, that Carl Jung "letters" is very interesting, can you provide a link or tell me more about it?

Originally Posted by tommo

I agree with this, if I understand correctly, that our 'reality' IRL is based on our perception of reality. Correct?

Yup, thats how I see it. Just like a computer can translate binary information into a 3D game, so does our brain translate reality information into a dreamworld.

Originally Posted by tommo

If it isn't discovered how can it be labeled?
I think you mean everything that isn't explained is seen as paranormal.

Yes indeed thats what I meant :p

Originally Posted by anomanderis

1) Why couldn't I phase through him? Was it because I was focusing too much on his body, thus making it more "solid"?
I though about this after waking up and I think i did focus too much on the body. When I phase through walls, i never focus on the walls themselves, but beyond them.

Perhaps you were focused too much on your opponents and not enough on your goal of getting to the other side? Like they say, "Keep your eye on the prize".

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Also, that Carl Jung "letters" is very interesting, can you provide a link or tell me more about it?

Actually, I can't find a link to that at the moment. Letter writing being the main form of communication at the time, a search for "Jung" and "Letters" brings up a ton of other letters, mostly between him and Freud.

Trying to find it, I kept coming across terms like "causal" and "acausal", which would seem to fit, but I'll need to research it more in depth, which will take some time.

Here's another example from Jung in the meantime:

"A young woman I was treating had, at a critical moment, a dream in which she was given a golden scarab. While she was telling me this dream I sat with my back to the closed window. Suddenly I heard a noise behind me, like a gentle tapping. I turned round and saw a flying insect knocking against the window-pane from outside. I opened the window and caught the creature in the air as it flew in. It was the nearest analogy to a golden scarab that one finds in our latitudes, a scarabaeid beetle, the common rose-chafer (Cetonia aurata), which contrary to its usual habits had evidently felt an urge to get into a dark room at this particular moment." [The Collected Works of Carl Jung, Volume 8, page 843]

ANother incident where he was walking in the woods with a woman who was telling him a dream she had about a fox. Just then a fox appeared on the path ahead of them and walked ahead of them for a few minutes.

Looks like my training is really paying out. 2 records in 3 days. First the lucid dreams per night record (4), now the duration. I never could hold lucidity for more than a minute, but today i managed to do it for at least 3 -4 minutes.
If i implemented all that i had read from guides: engaging the senses, not moving too fast, i could easily hold lucidity. I found that when i made sharp or sudden turns with my "head", the world started blurring. By using slow movements and always keeping my "eyes" focused on the dreamscape, I was able to keep myself in it.

Yet still, in another lucid i had this morning, I fought my homeroom teacher, but couldn't punch through him like I wanted to. Guess i'm still a noob at dream control...
First comes attaining, then retaining and after that i can put your advice into action, the Cusp