You too can be a God (want to continue BB's post of 2/19)

[think green]

First, if you and other interested parties are still out there, I'd kind of like to continue the topic.

I thought it was a pretty neat post, but I don't believe the idea that dreams are just junk, radom images created by your mind while your body heals itself. I'm a firm believer that dreams have meaning and I have reasonably good success analyzing dreams. So, I guess, my question is, if you have complete control of your dreams, aren't you wiping out any agendas that your subconscious would otherwise have had? Is that why you kind of had a period of sort of "blank dreams?" Maybe it makes more sense to work with your dreams co-operatively than to try to control them completely.

Dreams that aren't Lucid are from our subconscious. Those dreams, in my opinion, are gifts from a part of our mind that observes, senses, judges and communicates things differently than our conscious mind. Wouldn't it be better to partner with our subconscious rather than to completely control it?

Any thoughts? Opinions?

[BillyBob]

In the topic I did say control gets boring and that even though you know you can control it you can just let your subconcious take over while you continue to know if your subconcious were to throw godzilla your way you could always make him disapear.
in other words the knowledge of how to control your dreams could help you in examining and interpreting your dreams while your having them

about dreams being random images...
I do believe you can interpret dreams to help yourself out. But if you think about it you can examine anything for self help. for example. If I were to look out my window right now and see 3 birds, two of them are enjoying themselves mating () the third though is just standing to the side watching. (this is just one thing out of hundreds thats happenning outside my window) now if I were to look at the birds like i usually look at things id say "that bird should go get a mate" or something like that, but if I were to look at it like you look at your dreams I would say "how could seeing these three birds relate to my life personally" I could then think "Im the bird thats mating with the female and my friend is slowly becomming a social outcast" and then I think of one of numorous friends and find that Joe fits the bill. or I could have thought "I'm and outcast in society, I need to go live a little instead of watching from the sidelines"
all that mind opening information was brought about not from my subconcious, but because I chose to look at my life as an observer and think differently than normal, abstractly. I personally believe that this same thing takes place when one observes their dreams, your subconcious isnt purposefully sending you messages, your just decifering a jumbled up alphabet
-- --
also, the reason I head a period of quick ending LDs was because I didnt see why any of the stabalization techniques would work, (if you know anything about LDing than you know the only reason anything works in a dream is because you expect it to)

[think green]

Yeah, I know a little about LDing and agree, things happen because you expect them to happen or believe they will. If you don't believe you can make yourself fly, you can't. Confidence goes a long way. Same is true in life. (LDing is life--just on a different level.) I was working at a shoe store years ago, an obnoxiously super-confident person told me when she had to get up in the crowded display window to get one pair of shoes, she invariably would knock other shoes down only if she thought she was going to knock them down. Makes sense. Self-fulfilling prophecy. The Little Engine who could didn't say, "I can't. I can't. I can't."

We disagree on dreams' meaning. The darn thing is, I respect you, man, even the morning after, man. I'm just kidding. If you only see a jumbled alphabet, that's all there is. If you look, there's a hell of a lot more to it. Like a code. You get used to the language.

You could turn it around on me and say, "Well, if you look, it's there. Of course, your gonna find it."

I've got a literature degree and some psych background, so it's totally second nature for me to look for symbols.

Anyway, I like your photo of the bathroom and your ideas. I like the visual aid. But I am not getting this analogy of the 3 birds.

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by think green
You could turn it around on me and say, "Well, if you look, it's there. Of course, your gonna find it."

Thats pretty much what i was trying to say with the bird thing

Originally posted by think green
I've got a literature degree and some psych background, so it's totally second nature for me to look for symbols.

i'm not saying its bad to look for symbolism in your dreams and other places, If you look for a message you will most likely find one, and that message may help you to lead a richer and fuller life, but I personally just dont think that the subconcious gives us a coded message with every dream we have.

(if you know anything about LDing than you know the only reason anything works in a dream is because you expect it to) [/b]

yeah, sorry if you took this the wrong way, I just read over it and it sounded like i was implying that you knew nothing about LDing

[think green]

Don't worry about offending me about LDing. I haven't had a real Lucid dream in 20 years. That's why I put myself down as a beginner. If you don't keep up with this stuff--life gets in the way and your lose it. LaBerge is right. Afternoon is the best time to LD. Damn, damn f*cking America for not having siestas.

But I am gonna hammer you about dream interpretation. K?

You think dreams are nonsense? Look at language.

We, English speakers, in America, use certain idioms, you go to another country and idioms are different. You get to know another culture in America and idiom. silmile, metaphore can all be just incomprehensible as a dream.

Do these expressions make sense? They won't to a foreigner.

He was so mad, he it the roof.-- Did he literally hit the roof?

He is full of hot air.-- What does that mean literally?

Took you for a ride.--He doesn't even own a car.

Your pulling my leg.--Say this to a Spaniard. They say, "No, no, I'm not. I never touched you." A Spaniard says, "You're teasing my hair." Say that to an American. What the hell does that mean?

Walking on air.-- What am I? Christ?

Skating on thin ice.-- I don't even know how to skate and I live in the South where the ice is never thick enough.

Bad egg? Get under my skin? What are you a maggot? Get one's back up? Huh? Pain in the ass? Set my teeth on edge? Needle me? Rule with an iron hand. What happened to your hand that it is made of iron? Couldn't they give you a better prosthesis? Turning beet red? But I am very dark skinned. I don't turn beet red. But I am Native American. My skin is naturally red. Is there a problem with red? She is as pretty as a rose? If I saw a human being with a face of a rose, it would be a nightmare. Ditch someone. Did I throw them in a ditch? Hedge a bet? What does betting have to do with gardening? Rat out? I hate rats. They are filthy disease spreading aminals. I have nothing to do with rats. Beat a dead horse. I, I love horses. Why would I beat a dead animal? Close shave? I am a woman. Drop like a hot potato. The country I am from has no potatoes. I never saw a potatoe until I came America and I swear I never touched you. Do you have a fever? You feel blue? You look white, red, yellow, black. Are you dying from lack of oxygen? Leg work? Take a powder? By the skin of one's teeth? Bent out of shape? Am I a paper clip? He turned as white as a sheet? But he is from the Sudan.

You say these things to a foreigner who is just learning English. English makes no more sense than dreams.

You think dreams don't make sense? This is literally the pictoral language of many dreams. My hypothesis is that dreams are objective. They cannot lie. But interpretation is subjective. I can try. I can take an educated guess.

I just just had to say that to someone. And you take this stuff seriously. Even if our perspective is different.

Anyway . . .

[think green]

Incidently, it isn't just common, middle-class, whitebread Americans who have no idea what these combinations of words mean. Little white American children who are just learning to speak will be horrified by some of these very common images--pictures--and pictures are often what our dreaming mind sends us. You speak ing front of a little kid and you may omit every profane work that you'd like to use to express your anger and all you say is, "I could just skin him alive" or "Blast him." See what happens. See what pictures there dreams draw. Same pictures our minds draw.

That is why I am so disturbed why I read that people want to do dumb things during LDing like feed bird antiacids to stomachs explode; or chain every female member of Gulligan's Island to a tree and force sex on them. Or even "destry a building with your bare hands." For Christsake, (agnostic expression), I can do this crap in my daydreams. We think the human race has evolved?

[think green]

I apologise for my typing I didn't proof. I'm like a drunk native on a reservation 20 years ago before crystal meth. My religion has been polluted. Oh poor me!

[think green]

YOU, BB, can call me "Mom" though you'd probably want to f*ck me like every other, and I mean EVERY OTHER stupid human being on the face of this planet. I should have chosen the name "MOM." But I am environmentalist and a gardener. I've got a 9x12 porch with rosemary; oregano; basil; lavender; okra; spinach; strawberrry; tomato; mint; garlic; pepper; chives; echanacea; etc. Barley room to walk. Not to mention all the pansies and petunias, dahlias and roses. And all the wildlife who come to visit for a drink of water and get something to eat. Environmentalism is dead in America.