Thread: Close your eyes. What do you see? About visualization.

May I as what the point to that was? I think mine is level 5, wanted to say 6 but the colour wasn't bright enough.

6?

6.5 i'd say =P

I got a 3D Triangular prism. I spun it around and the shading worked properly too =O

I'll be watching this though. I wanna see where the average falls. Its important for a visualization-oriented guide h'm trying to write.

Ahh, now I finaly understand what visualisation means. Bah I can't see a triangle. Every time I try, something else appears (but that happens eaven if I don't try to visualize). I don't eaven have enough concentration to keep a red triangle in mind for more then 5 seconds. How do you do it!? Isn't this like inducing hallucinations or something? I always thought that visualisation means "seeing something" inside your head, not actually seeing it.

I can get a triangle, that looks like it's bend in neon. Red. Not any colour inside it thought, just the neon-lighting like outlines. However, it's not very convincing or amazing.

Level 3/4 for me.

Can't see anything; for the record, I have absolutely no hypnagogic imagery either (even in successful WILDs). I'm keeping the developing vivid visualization tutorial in a bookmark to eventually work on that (even if I don't really see the point...)

6

Meh, i might be hijacking this a little but i wanna expand on it =O

for those of you who CAN do the triangle try these two:

Something a little more complex. Can you visualize say.. A rubber ducky?

Then, if you can do that, can you do something really complex like fire? This ones hard for me. It always looks like cartoon fire in the end and just sorta squiggles to show burning. Its an artsy fire XD

Then, lastly.. is there anyone here who can visualize with their eyes open?

I deeply think dream control has to do with this

The ability to form the image, to keep it stable (e.g. not moving) make it more bright and vivid, trying to move it with your will, trying to move it with your imaginary hands, making the image go far fro myour and come back, and then finally make the image disappear without have it coming back to your mind.

If I'm not mistaken, dream yoga has to do with this. Rox, I say



@ arby:
it isn't impossible to visualise with your eyes open. But the image you see and the image you visualise will be completely different and apart. You can't merge them both (at least not without a silly deal of experience).

it will be as if the images were in different layers.. almost like when you daydream with your eyes opened

nice thing it is

Originally Posted by Kromoh

I deeply think dream control has to do with this

Damn! I never thought of that. I was like 'wtf is he saying?'. But now I think of it: It makes complete sense! Yeah. What really is the difference between 'summoning' a Ferrari in your dream, and -awake- summoning the image of a Ferrari when you close your eyes.

It has more to do with attaining lucidity then anything. With strong enough visualization (and not just with sight! sound and others too) you can WILD practically anywhere.

as for visualizing something with eyes open.. I'm not quite sure what you mean by image and visualization will never be the same. 0.o When i'm in the right state of mind, i can do it by will. earlier I was able to do the triangle. I'm not at the stage yet to be able to do it well though and its really unstable and I can't sustain it for any considerable length of time.

What it looks like? just like it does when you close your eyes pretty much. After, i was wondering if my eyes did actually stay open then i tried again just to make sure. =O

you can probably relate. Every gone into a trance-like state where you are totally zoned out and are looking into space with "unseeing eyes". Thats pretty much what it is.

I don't get anything. Its very unstable when I try to picture it. I can get any where from 1-5.

I have a question and it follows onto bonsay's post,
Are we talking about actually seeing it behind the eyelids, like inducing a hallucination? or visualizing it in that part of your head where visualizations form :\.
I can visualize rubber duckies, fire and triangles without much of a problem, nice colour too, I can also interact with them in my mind.. When I open my eyes I can visualize them also, but its not possible to confuse visualizations with the real world, it doesnt appear to me to be a part of the real world, its still being formed in a different location in my head if that makes sense. I think the brains quite good at not confusing the two thankfully.

Originally Posted by RooJ

I have a question and it follows onto bonsay's post,
Are we talking about actually seeing it behind the eyelids, like inducing a hallucination? or visualizing it in that part of your head where visualizations form :\.
.....
When I open my eyes I can visualize them also, but its not possible to confuse visualizations with the real world, it doesnt appear to me to be a part of the real world, its still being formed in a different location in my head if that makes sense. I think the brains quite good at not confusing the two thankfully.

Well, I don't reffer to actually seeing as being from real word (or like from the hallucinations which are happening during sleep (dreams)).
I have read some documentation about how mental imagery works.
The brain imaging technology shown that the mental imagery and actual perception are very similar. As far as I understood, the visualized image is "created" into the same part of the brain which is used to receive the image from the eyes (visual cortex), but somehow the brain knows that the image was created by itself, and this prevents confusing what's from "inside" and what's from "outside".
Here are some studies which describe this:
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neur...3/Mintzer.html

http://www.sparknotes.com/psychology.../section1.html

The most interesting thing for me is the only difference between a vivid mental imagery and an hallucination is that the brain knows that the image comes from "inside".

Here is a very interesting article:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/431517_4

Paul

Very interesting read, this is the first ive heard about mental images being processed just like normal imagery. Its strange I havnt read this already because for a long time this subject really interested me.
As far as my imagery, ive mentioned before that I went through a phase of trying to increase my abilities to visualize. I came up with a simple technique and after a week or two could visualize really well, to the point were the images could shock me like strong hypnogogic imagery does. I believe Its well within everyones grasp to increase visualization skills.

3 - To be honest I thought you were a bit mental, expecting to see a triangle infront of you with your eyes closed:p. I never really expected to see a thing. Although it was very unstable and "flickered" (for want of a better word) in and out of view.

Originally Posted by arby

Meh, i might be hijacking this a little but i wanna expand on it =O

for those of you who CAN do the triangle try these two:

Something a little more complex. Can you visualize say.. A rubber ducky?

Then, if you can do that, can you do something really complex like fire? This ones hard for me. It always looks like cartoon fire in the end and just sorta squiggles to show burning. Its an artsy fire XD

Then, lastly.. is there anyone here who can visualize with their eyes open?

BINGO! I can't visualize for SHIT when my eyes are closed, but when they're open I can visualize for some reason REALLY well. When they're closed, I guess the darkness is just extraneously overwhelming and crowds my thoughts with other things.

Well actually I managed to see the triangle, but it was yellowish instead of being red. I've just noticed that if I "visualize" it in a black colour, it instantly forms as a number 3 on your scale, as a hallucination behind my eyelids. It seems that colours make it form longer and it's harder to keep in mind because of the black background. Which is also probably why black ones from instantly.

Originally Posted by RooJ

As far as my imagery, ive mentioned before that I went through a phase of trying to increase my abilities to visualize. I came up with a simple technique and after a week or two could visualize really well, to the point were the images could shock me like strong hypnogogic imagery does. I believe Its well within everyones grasp to increase visualization skills.

Can you tell me what technique did you used?
Did you used Image Streaming or something else?
Please describe your technique or give us a link to it's description.
Paul

To be honest it was nothing special, it just worked for me.. 2 steps I used:

Firstly every now and again when I got chance throughout the day I would attempt to visualize, just a minute or so at a time so as not to interfere with work (kinda like how you fit random reality checks into your day). During this stage i found that out of all of the things i tried to visualize the image of a lions face was easiest. This was an accidental discovery but I used it to my advantage with most of my shorter visualization practices being focused on lions... that and apples :\.

Id then have 1 more longer visualization attempt after work or sometimes while laying down before going to sleep or both. This was nearly always centered around trying to visualize desert islands. As i found it so hard at first i would visualize and feel the white sand first (when I first started it was more feeling with my hands while struggling to visualize it), sometimes I would get sudden glimpses of sand in macro closeup but lose it just as quick... Id attempt to add in water, and other peices.. Id try to see the colour turquoise, and a deep blue sky, Id even use memories of posters and items of clothing that I could 'borrow' the colour from as it seemed easier to visualize real memories.
I suppose It was like building a jigsaw in the beginning, id build up the scene seeing each part seperately and sometimes they would cross over... without starting from smaller parts i would just get fragmented peices, sometimes really clear but surrounded by fuzzyness etc.

I can't really explain it but its like a pulsing imagery at first, I saw a flash of the sand, then i would lose it to fuzzy darkness, then i may get a flash of the sand again but maybe water washing over it, id then lose this to darkness. These images didnt appear 'fullscreen', they appeared as small peices of my vision surrounded by chaos and fuzz. At some point in the pursuit my brain would just take over and gift me with a full screen perfect scene of the island for a few seconds, its like the really bright flashes of hypnogogia that shock you, its completely unexpected when it happens and excitement kicks in.
The more i practiced the easier it got and the better my normal everyday visualization skills became.

*as far as the longer visualization goes Id always make sure i was somewhere quiet, and somewhere dark, even if it meant putting my head under the bed :\.

I may have to write up the stages i went through in a more guide-like fashion at some point, maybe in a journal if i ever decide to create one. There was definitely a pattern to each of the longer attempts I had.

I get 5.
The triangle is clear and distinct but I can't make it red. Closest I get is a rusty colour.

I found an interesting article [pdf] about objectively measuring vividness of visualization (i.e. finding strong correlation between reported visualization vivdness and the measurements (using magnetic ressonance imaging) on visual cortex).
Also, in the article it says:
"We measured participants’ vividness of visual imagery (VVI) with a
standardized battery of visualization questions (Marks, 1973) which are
listed in the supporting online material. The average of the vividness rat-
ings of the 16 questions was used. Note that a low VVI score means vivid
imagery and a high score means vague imagery.
We measured participants’ vividness of visual imagery (VVI) with a
standardized battery of visualization questions (Marks, 1973) which are
listed in the supporting online material. The average of the vividness rat-
ings of the 16 questions was used. Note that a low VVI score means vivid
imagery and a high score means vague imagery."

What I would like to see is the list of questions which was asked to the participants.
It might be this?

{EDIT}
I did another search and I found on wikipedia, that VVIQ test was published in 1973, by Marks. So, the answer on the last question is "yes".

Now, I am searching for some vviq result statistics on general population. This would be very interesting to find out.

Paul

This is easy, I can't see how people can get lower then 6.
I would rate myself as a 7 as I can expand it really large without loosing the colour with my eyes open.

Originally Posted by wendylove

This is easy, I can't see how people can get lower then 6.
I would rate myself as a 7 as I can expand it really large without loosing the colour with my eyes open.

Of course you would. You're just beyond perfect.