Thread: Tornadoes Rip Through Central Florida

So, any damage to you, friends, or family? Kind of weird getting tornado's this time of year

No. Thankfully it moved straight from west to east, right between Deltona, where I live and Daytona, where just about everyone on both my mom and dad's sides of the family live. None of us got any damage and/or injuries.
Heart goes out to those that did, though. Not only is it a strange time of year for them, but they were observed as being much stronger than what is normal in Central Florida, in general. F1's and 2's are more common.

Quite strange...glad that you and family and friends are ok. And it's sad that so many are dead/injured/homes destroyed. But I still want to see one.

Yeah I heard about it man. I live in Jacksonville about 3 hours away from there. It was storming pretty bad up here and there where some tornado warnings. It was pretty crazy.

Sorry to sound crass but Woopdie-freakin-doo. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm glad to hear nothing bad happened to you and yours but...

If the inevitability of humanity reaping what it sows is only hitting home when things like this happen, it's no wonder humanity is on the collision course with destiny that it is. I'm more surprised these kind of disasters aren't more widespread than they are currently. We, on the whole, have relentlessly destroyed environments, species, and resources with no signs of abating. Who cares about 20 stupid people? What about the 1000's of species, and ecosystems we have killed off over the last hundred years in order to get to this point? Everyone should be more infuriated, and saddened by that. Don't you think it's about time humanity re-prioritized thier idea of acceptable losses, rather than sit there in complacency and cry over spilt milk. I'm sorry, but the milk has already been spilling long before this 'tragedy' my friends, now it just a dry curdled mess on top of a mess that we conveniently choose to ignore. We value human life more than our own planet. Don't you see how stupid that is? We get nothing more than we deserve.

OMG...the poor golf courses... Now, all the rich retired consumeristic pigs can't get it on the green. Pardon me but, give me a f*ing break.

20/6,000,000,000 people...Oh, the horror

Expect things to get MUUUUUUUUUCH worse in the coming months/years. This is supposed to be the hottest year... EVER. Enjoy it! We sure as hell earned it.


If it takes millions of people to die for everyone to finally come to terms with their greedy, gluttonous lifestyles and tone it down a notch, then so be it. Because right now, we are out of control. And we really need a good kick in the ass, and wake up call...especially America.

[Edit: Thanks, Nina. And I don't blame you. A tornado is still about the most amazing thing I've ever seen, in my life. I'd like to see another one...just not one that's right on top of me. o.O]

Sorry to sound crass but Woopdie-freakin-doo.[/b]

Why apologize? You’re entitled to your opinion.

Here’s mine:

So basically, what you are saying is that because humans, as a species, can be destructive, careless, downright malicious creatures, no one should care when families’ (that you have no reason to assume weren’t tree-hugging, earth-loving hippies) lives and lively-hoods are ripped away from them in the middle of the night – when 7 year old children are crushed by falling rooftops and teenage kids wake up in the middle of the night as orphans, after three of their four family members were killed in a flurry of late-night twisters.
Since there is a war going on – one that we (and I use this as a term defining a nation, not us as individuals) are responsible for, and since we are somewhat bred to be wasteful, callous and damaging, in respect to the earth, the innocents that have lost their lives about a dozen miles from me aren’t worth being recognized?
Try to rationalize this, and simply “ignore” the recognition of your mother and/or (future?)daughter, are obliterated by a freak twister. Shed no tears for them because they are humans and it is the “human’s fault that the twister happened” so, by association, they killed themselves. So what? Fuck ‘em. Right?
Please. It’s easy to dismiss a community with 20 people dead and nearly 1000 homes destroyed (which is a far cry from your "golf course" analogy), when you have no connection to them. Obviously you don’t care about the victims of Columbine. You don’t care about the victims of pedophiles who have their lives’ ruined and/or taken daily. You could give two shits about the stray bullets that kill hundreds of men women and children worldwide. Why? Because all of these things are brought about by the recklessness of humanity. They are all reflections of our species (though certainly not reflections of us as individuals, which might actually give your argument the slightest bit of a base, and reason to play global prosecutor.)
As far as I’m concerned, your bleeding heart for the planet (which I usually respect) means absolutely shit and borders on hypocrisy, seeing as how you could care less about your fellow men, women and children who lose their lives, undeservingly, for ANY reason, be it nature or man.

I'm more of a grand scheme of things kind of guy, myself. I'm more concerned with; Are 90% or 50% of human race going to have to die because of our selfishness today? Call it what you must. Personally, I try not to get caught up in meaningless shiz. It's unfortunate that rapists, murderers, pedophiles, and other tragedies of the world exist but what is getting angry or sad about those aforementioned topics going to do to stop, or deter them? That is something found in a percentage of the population regardless of how we may feel about them.

[Sidenote: surprisingly enough, those crime numbers are almost triple in ALL catergories in America than any other country in the world COMBINED.] Perhaps, there is something at the heart of this care-free, ignorant, the-world-is-my-oyster lifestyle most americans lead, them not signing the kyoto treaty, and them being the leader in crime? but I digress...

I respect your views. Yours are just another way to look at it. Where one sees futility, another sees providence. That's cool. We all pick our battles, some bigger, and some smaller than others.

I figure, if I at least bitch enough, perhaps, somewhere there's an off-chance, someone overindulging will think twice before cranking up their AC, or forgetting to turn off a light when they leave a room. and that's a start. It's better than me biting my tongue to the obvious, and sheding a fake tear for the 20 people that died. That would have them dying in vain. I am simply asking, how many more need to die before we wake up to the real issue here? I'd rather go out screaming, knowing it wasn't from a lack of effort.

I'm sickened by peoples' complacency in their lives. Their inability to get past their own wants or desires enough to see the obvious. And even more infuriated by that being the cause of these global problems for us all. The fact that it will have to come to many more people dying before most people even begin to think..."hmm, maybe I shouldn't drive a SUV that gets 15miles to the gallon", or "maybe the last thing the world needs right now is another kid".... is pathetic.

Yea, I understand it happened close to your house and I'm sure I'd be worried if here in Japan there were a huge earthquake (as there is slated to be in my area one day). I just don't see the human cost of events like that. We are already overpopulated as it is. I see what it'll be costing us in the long run for us to keep these numbers, or continue increasing them as we are. I see the big picture of the death of Gaia, and the human race as opposed to lowly individuals. Maybe in a different time when things weren't so dire, I could've afforded the time to care, but not anymore.


In the Brazilian Amazon alone, deforestation is occurring at the rate of over 5 million acres a year (bigger than the U.S. state of New Jersey) or the equivalent of seven football fields a minute. Companies from Malaysia, Indonesia, China, South Korea, and Singapore are stripping the Amazon of its most valuable timber, such as mahogany, but they also destroy many other kinds of trees. Their main customers are the U.S., Europe and Japan


...and we sit here wallowing in our own crapulence wondering why these kinds of accidents occur, saying, "Oh, the humanity"?!
Now THAT is hypocrisy...

Who’s wondering? We know what is messing with the weather, and that we (humans) are a huge contribution to it. It simply has nothing to do with recognizing the death of innocent people in your community, or around the world, for that matter.

Your perception of being a “grand scheme” kind of guy is not much different from a U.S. government’s (accused, by many) “grand scheme” perception of of “kill 3,000 American citizen’s as a pretext for forcing peace in the Middle East, which is, we believe, the Greater Good” and yet so many “critical thinkers” believe the concept as an impossibility. That blows my mind.

That’s another subject altogether, though. My point here is that; to see the “Grand Scheme” is not to forget the ‘Independent Variables,” especially when those variables are human lives. The cost in human life that you "don't see," you don't see because it's not there to be found when looking at numbers and statistics. It's not going to be on a pie chart or in some BodyCount Almanac. The cost is charged to the people who lose everything, whether a loved one, or everything they own. It is this relativity that, fundamentally, we share with people the world over, regardless of status. To lose it all is to lose it all, a family member obviously being more important than any posession.
Not everyone in the U.S. is guilty of some sort of indifference toward Gaia and, therefore, NOT ONE person that dies any time, any place, that isn’t a direct, deliberate influence toward the destruction of the Earth deserves your type of rhetoric. Your anger needs to be taken out on those who are verifiably guilty of your accusations, not a faceless mass of men women and children, because they happen to be Westerners or "statistically insignificant."

That would be no different for blaming the civilian men, women and children killed in Iraq because they live in a population rife with Jihadists or, as a better example, no different from the indifference an Islamic Extremist shows to the victims of 9/11 because they lived within a population rife with capitalist pigs.

There is a lot to be said for the stats that you posted, but you should save the fight for those responsible, not express it by indifference to the lives of those affected by it, rendering them simply “Guilty by Association.” Empathy is so often one of those things that isn’t really experienced until you’ve been placed into another’s shoes and, like I said, let’s hope it doesn’t take the tragic loss of a loved one for you to at least recognize the value of a single human life - Let alone 20.

The U.S. goverment's trumped up war on terror has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about. What I am talking about, not a single american or human on this earth for that matter can escape blame from. I am not judging a group of people based off unfounded claims. I am angered how we sit back and let everything fall to the wayside like it has. I am baffled as to, how could we let it get this far? I really fail to see where you drew similarities to an islamic extremist. Apples and Oranges.

I like ya, though and I'm not here to argue with you or make enemies with anyone.

By watching this, I was merely reminded how America has still has yet to step up to the plate and clean up it's environmental act. and wondered just how far will it have to go before change happens. Is all.

I really am not hoping anyone die, I hope no one misconstrues it as that.

Tornado's in Florida around this time of year. no good. Oneironaut I'm happy to here you and your family are in good health and are safe. Keep your emergency plan together because even though Solskye and I don't get along he makes a point (only in regards to things getting worse, referencing nature.) The rest of that stuff he mentioned sounds like he was talking out the side of his neck-- as usual. With that being said, you and your family stay safe and stay alert for any future freak incidents as we all should.

SolSkye:

The U.S. goverment's trumped up war on terror has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about. What I am talking about, not a single american or human on this earth for that matter can escape blame from. I am not judging a group of people based off unfounded claims. I am angered how we sit back and let everything fall to the wayside like it has. I am baffled as to, how could we let it get this far? I really fail to see where you drew similarities to an islamic extremist. Apples and Oranges. [/b]

Fair enough. Allow me to explain my analogy.
By “extremist” (which was probably a poor word-choice) I didn’t necessarily mean I compare you to the Jihadists that do the killing, but to those that sympathize with their cause and fail to find any remorse for the lives of innocent Americans who are simply living by a standard that the radicals find as destructive, gluttonous, unholy, whichever and, thereby, are deserving of their deaths. That isn’t to say that you don’t have a well-intended grudge with humanity for its flaws, in respect to the earth, but to cheapen the lives of those born into this culture we have by stomping the significance out of their deaths is just cold, to me. The analogy is really much less of an insult than I suppose it seemed, although not without its intended abrasiveness.

I like ya, though and I'm not here to argue with you or make enemies with anyone. [/b]

It’s cool. I’m not out to make enemies either. Just didn’t really agree with your point of view on this particular subject. That’s all.

By watching this, I was merely reminded how America has still has yet to step up to the plate and clean up it's environmental act. and wondered just how far will it have to go before change happens. Is all. [/b]

I don’t feel it’s fair to judge America as a whole, when it comes to our policies. We (humans) are habitual creatures. Many of us are easily molded, to a level that we aren’t even aware of, and I think the influence should be recognized for where most of it lies: the upper-echelon. I mean, do you blame the brainwashed assassins for murdering the peace-makers, or do you blame the factions that spawn them? Many of us simply don’t know how to break away from our bad habits, especially when our governing Profiteers are constantly forcing those bad habits down our throats, under the guise of “freedoms,” “choices” and “privileges,” that many of us didn’t ask for in the first place, but are practically conditioned to enjoy. This is by no means an excuse (keep in mind that there are many of us Americans that fight just as hard - or harder - than you, for us to change what we are doing to the planet) but many people, of any culture, often don’t see the faults of their actions until the most pressing consequences are staring them right in their faces. Full-grown men and women suddenly changing their entire ways of life, though crucial, is not as easy as, say, giving up smoking cigarettes, which is already credited as one of the hardest habits to break.
And to think; we don’t even benefit from smoking.

Ne-yo:
Thanks, man. Much appreciated. And yeah, I’m expecting things to get much worse. The relatively calm storm season, last year, isn’t very comforting, either.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

I'm more of a grand scheme of things kind of guy, myself. I'm more concerned with; Are 90% or 50% of human race going to have to die because of our selfishness today? Call it what you must. Personally, I try not to get caught up in meaningless shiz. It's unfortunate that rapists, murderers, pedophiles, and other tragedies of the world exist but what is getting angry or sad about those aforementioned topics going to do to stop, or deter them? That is something found in a percentage of the population regardless of how we may feel about them.
[/b]

According to what you have been preaching in another forum, reality is a psychosis, and nothing exists except you. So what are you talking about in this thread?

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

SolSkye:
It’s cool. I’m not out to make enemies either. Just didn’t really agree with your point of view on this particular subject. That’s all.
[/b]

As long as we're still cool, I'll continue.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

SolSkye:
I don’t feel it’s fair to judge America as a whole, when it comes to our policies. We (humans) are habitual creatures. Many of us are easily molded, to a level that we aren’t even aware of, and I think the influence should be recognized for where most of it lies: the upper-echelon. I mean, do you blame the brainwashed assassins for murdering the peace-makers, or do you blame the factions that spawn them? Many of us simply don’t know how to break away from our bad habits, especially when our governing Profiteers are constantly forcing those bad habits down our throats, under the guise of “freedoms,” “choices” and “privileges,” that many of us didn’t ask for in the first place, but are practically conditioned to enjoy. This is by no means an excuse (keep in mind that there are many of us Americans that fight just as hard - or harder - than you, for us to change what we are doing to the planet) but many people, of any culture, often don’t see the faults of their actions until the most pressing consequences are staring them right in their faces. Full-grown men and women suddenly changing their entire ways of life, though crucial, is not as easy as, say, giving up smoking cigarettes, which is already credited as one of the hardest habits to break.
And to think; we don’t even benefit from smoking.
[/b]

To skirt responsibility in such a manner sounds exactly the same as saying, "Well, it's the shepards job to tend to his flock because the sheep don't know any better". How can one pity or respect mankind if they use scapegoats in such a way? You expect all the compassion for the valuable human souls lost, but then say people aren't intelligent enough to change on their own, anyway. By that reasoning, we would need people to die in order for anything to happen. And that's where my anger stems. I guess, I had more hope in the human condition than to let themselves be led around on a leash through every change in their simple, sorry existences. It doesn't take a self-aware genius to know that driving a SUV is wasteful and stupid, yet they are the current status quo in America. Why? Im sorry, but I don't excuse people for falling for marketing campaigns. Not when better hybrid technologies exist. We are supposedly self-aware. It's high time we acted like it. Wouldn't you say? It's passed the point of taking things lightly and awaiting policy change, change comes from within.

I can see it now...
Bling, bling baby. Ef the nay-sayers. It's time to drive in style, right on through to the apocalypse. BOOYAH. Ford Explorer...Built Tough.

(Fun Fact: The fuel economy of the average new vehicle sold fell to 20.7 miles a gallon, in 2003 models from 22.1 miles a gallon in 1988 models. Say wha?)
Turn a blind eye

Even rats know well enough not to sh*t where they sleep. What does that say about us then, when we have the cognition to know the whole world is essentially our bed?

Here are... The Global Warming Implications for Florida

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

According to what you have been preaching in another forum, reality is a psychosis, and nothing exists except you. So what are you talking about in this thread?
[/b]

While that feeling exists a lot of the time, I would cease to function properly within the hustle and bustle of society if I caused myself to feel like that all the time. If you don't purposefully get yourself caught up in distraction, you're ostracized. I'm not quite ready to be a hermit just yet. For the time being, wolf in sheeps clothing will have to suffice.

Also, the term 'you' or 'me' was the easiest way for me to relate that feeling of being connected to infinity as something one could easily verify within themselves and understand. In essence, yes, everything is of me but that doesn't mean I have to sit there and take things lying down. Even a buddhist monk would protest when encroached upon.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

As long as we're still cool, I'll continue.
To skirt responsibility in such a manner...[/b]

That’s not skirting responsibility. That’s psychology, and it’s a fact. (And one that, if I remember correctly, I said was “no excuse.”)
My saying “many” of us is simply recognition that there are those of us whose comfort zones not only control our lives, but are passed down through the generations. Changing the lazy, lethargic ideology that many of us have, worldwide, is not something that’s going to happen overnight, now matter how much anyone bitches or moans about it. It is simply not that easy. Extreme psychological illnesses such as “Stockholm syndrome” illustrate that you can’t always judge individuals so harshly for their actions, when there is damaging sensory input or ideologies thrown at them day in and day out. Acceptance becomes the only way many people know how to live, and must be fought fiercely against, to change, even if those influences are, obviously, bad.
What’s wrong with your argument (as it pertains to this thread) is that you are grouping everyone on the planet in the same class of SUV-in-the-suburbs-driving, waste-dumping ignoramuses (or simply not caring enough to acknowledge that you know that not everyone is like that). It is because of that, in my opinion, that you are in no position to make the deaths of anyone you’ve never met any less significant than the death of a member of your own family, on the grounds of your crusade against the global warmers.

Have you no feeling for the innocents killed in the Middle East? Not only in the war in Iraq, but any innocent killed at anytime, by anyone. Do you feel nothing for the blood-stained shoes and teddy bears that are shown in the streets? For the people that have no choice but to live their lives, sending their families out into murderous streets day after day? Can you honestly say you feel nothing for them? Like I said, these are all by-products of our collective imperfection, just as much as global warming is. If you’re telling me that you’re the kind of man that would hear about an Israeli shell dropping down on a beach full of Palestinian women and children, annihilating them all, and say “So what?” because of your “perspective of the Grand Scheme,” (that War, in itself, is an unfortunate attribute of human nature, at the present) I’d say you needed to do a little more soul-searching.

Yes. I know the stats. Yes, I know the score. Yes, I know the projections for a more ill-weathered Florida. None of this changes the fact that 20 people in my community, who possibly had no real contribution to the problem, lost their lives, and all you can say about it is “So what?” I understand your reasoning. I just think your apathy is misplaced.

But, hey, the last thing I want you to do is cry fake tears, for anyone. So, if you don't see my point, there is not much I can do about it.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

These things came through four counties from about 12am - 5am, on Friday morning, one of them that was at least an F3 hitting a dozen miles or so from where I live, flipping over 5 18-wheelers on a stretch of I-4 between DeLand and Daytona Beach, and closing down the highway yesterday. Some of these areas, especially the trailor parks throughout them, have been completely leveled.
As of now, 20 people have been confirmed dead.
[/b]

We had a tornado come through our small town here in South Carolina back in 1983. It still chokes me up to think about it. Lives, pets and wildlife, homes, places of business----gone! I especially remember the panic of family members trying to locate all of their family, unable to get to their loved-ones' home because of all the debris, some even parked their vehicle, ran, and climbed over fallen obstacles (so dangerous to do because of downed, live wires)'cause the street was so cluttered that they couldn't get close enough to see if their loved-ones' home was even still there. Terror. One thing I did not realize until I experienced it was how a tornado changes the landscape! Trees are gone, gone to point that you can not even recognize a once familiar area. And the small ones that are left are all bending in the opposite direction from which the winds came. Another reminder for a long time to come of the destruction.
I am glad to hear you and yours are safe!


octoberchild

I guess, there was an overload switch that went off a long time ago. I realized the balance of everything needs things like this to happen and there's no point crying or getting upset about it. Still fundamental human nature disturbs me in how blind they are to answers found directly in front of them.

I find it humerous how you would say I need more soul searching. I honestly don't see why more soul-searching would be in order for myself because of what I said. Why does having feelings for your fellow man neccessarily make you better for it? That in itself is judgemental and egotistical, if you ask me. I see everyone as the same decomposing matter, equal parts of the same confused soul. And while this is unfortunate that these individuals died, it also couldn't be helped, and is part of a necessary balance of all things. Of course your emotions are part of the balance as well so who am I to judge? I just find that when one is centered as you claim to be such emotions become trivial things because you see beyond them. I may have come across angry in the things that I typed but they were merely typed characters in order to incite thought into the current state of things.

I hate to quote Star Wars but it has become common knowledge. "A jedi is not clouded by emotion."

Again, sure, I could've chosen to go through the pleasantries that make the world go round all nice and smooth, as most people tend to do on here, but I guarantee that most people don't even know why they really do those things, either. Other than perhaps conditioning, and blind emotion. That's fine though. Necessary parts of the mask of this illusion.

Thanks, Octoberchild.
I'd driven through DeLand over the weekend, which is right up the road from me. I was just driving along and listening to the radio, having not really realized how close the twisters were. Completely oblivious, I looked around me and was speechless. I didn't even realize that a major road that I go up often had been completely decimated. Everything from the city Health Department, to the Taco Bell was destroyed. If I can get home to this side of town before sundown, after work, I'll ride through there and take a few pictures.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

I guess, there was an overload switch that went off a long time ago. I realized the balance of everything needs things like this to happen and there's no point crying or getting upset about it. Still fundamental human nature disturbs me in how blind they are to answers found directly in front of them.

I find it humerous how you would say I need more soul searching. I honestly don't see why more soul-searching would be in order for myself because of what I said. Why does having feelings for your fellow man neccessarily make you better for it? That in itself is judgemental and egotistical, if you ask me. I see everyone as the same decomposing matter, equal parts of the same confused soul. And while this is unfortunate that these individuals died, it also couldn't be helped, and is part of a necessary balance of all things. Of course your emotions are part of the balance as well so who am I to judge? I just find that when one is centered as you claim to be such emotions become trivial things because you see beyond them. I may have come across angry in the things that I typed but they were merely typed characters in order to incite thought into the current state of things.

I hate to quote Star Wars but it has become common knowledge. "A jedi is not clouded by emotion."

Again, sure, I could've chosen to go through the pleasantries that make the world go round all nice and smooth, as most people tend to do on here, but I guarantee that most people don't even know why they really do those things, either. Other than perhaps conditioning, and blind emotion. That's fine though. Necessary parts of the mask of this illusion.
[/b]

Hold the phone. Did you just seriously ask "Why does having feelings for your fellow man make you a better person?"
I don't know, man. Maybe you should ask all those people who were killed by remorseless people with the same indifference toward the lives of those around them. If we are all the part of the same miserable soul, slitting the throat of your next-door neighbor's 5 year old is really of no moral consequence, is it? The kid's just another part of the same insufferable consciousness, right?
While I belive that the direction this conversation is headed is better suited for the philosophy forum, I'll say this:
Your empathy for the Earth should be just as evenly dispersed throughout the innocents of the human population, if you ask me. You cannot speak of balance without even accepting the faults of mankind. One can not hold existence to a standard of "balance" while ranting about the wrong-doings of anyone or anything. If a true balance exists within the universe, then we are all a part of it. From the most adamant sinner, to the most enlightened soul. (By the way, I don't even recall claiming myself to be "centered" in any respect. I am who I am. Plain and simple. If you perceive me as centered, then please don't contradict that simply by saying I'm falsely claiming to be centered, because I did no such thing.)

I don't find emotions to be trivial. I feel they can be overwritten, with certain phases of self-inquiry, but I believe they are a major part of who we are, as people. To experience emotion and to be "clouded by emotion" are two completely different things. I could care less about saying what I'm saying to "make things go around nice and smooth." I say what I say because that's how I feel and, until someone can present a more valid point, (within the same context, which I don't belive you've done) I'll continue to do so.

DUDE WTF, why didn't you going running into the center of it! You would have completed this months task...JK

Glad to here you and your family is safe, thats some scary shit.

Well, perhaps I did put words in your mouth by saying you must think you are more centered, but naturally by saying I need to do more soul-searching implies that you think you have some sort of insight as who I am, and what I need to change, according to your standards. You'd have to think of yourself on a higher plateau in order to be able to offer such 'advice'. I never told anyone how they should be. I just said what happened is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, expect things to get much worse, and while I accept people's blind-sighted nature it still disappoints me.

And, in response to that, you continually seek to elicit compassion through other unrelated examples of suffering, and continually bring up a wide array of unrelated situations of how people doing heinous acts is comparable to my lack of compassion regarding this situation. Do you realize that, by making those comparisons you are seeing yourself as better than others for having compassion and, in essence, 'condemning' me to a level beneath you? I've merely been saying, it's pretty pathetic how some people can't see the obvious when it's been staring them in the face. I wholly accept, that they are who they are and nothing can change that, it's just disheartening to come to terms with what it's going to have to take to get the majority of people to see the truth.

Whether we have emotions or choose to filter them out, commit or choose to resist hideous transgressions against each other, it doesn't matter. In the end, we are ALL no better than a jihadist, a devout christian, a murderer, an old married couple, or the 5year old who gets crushed under a tree while he sleeps. We are all equally worthless. Worth is something self-imposed as a farce to give your life some sort of special meaning, just like your bank account balance or trophy wife. In the end that self-imposed worth doesn't go with you. You can say being clouded by emotion is different from what you are doing, I simply don't see it. Any emotion, (admittedly) even my disappointment, is useless and serves no purpose but to distract you from yourself. Emotions, like this 'reality', are inconsequential, and illogical distractions. period.

I may have assumed your thought process based off of how you talked down to me, but I never told anyone how they should think. I do respect that people are different, I only said it disturbs me that people are so blind to themselves they are unable to see the answer to their woes, right in front of them. Although, what's your excuse for caring? Does it do anything other than make you think you're in another class than someone else who doesn't care to hone their emotions in such a way? That's how it comes across, and that's a bit hypocritical wouldn't you say?

LMFAO @ Pastro.
Yeah, I thought it was pretty incredible that, as soon as the task of the month is set to "spawn a tornado," a pack of tornadoes show up a few miles away from my house. Freaky shit. lol.

Well, perhaps I did put words in your mouth by saying you must think you are more centered, but naturally by saying I need to do more soul-searching implies that you think you have some sort of insight as who I am, and what I need to change, according to your standards. You'd have to think of yourself on a higher plateau in order to be able to offer such 'advice'.[/b]

What I said had nothing to do with who you are as a person, ultimately. It was what I felt about your opinion on that particular subject. I see nothing wrong with feeling that you are misguided on a certain issue, and that a little more “soul-searching” may bring you a deeper perspective. That has nothing to do with where I feel you are as a person, or where I feel I am, as a person, in relation to you. I can disagree with someone without feeling that I’m better than them, so don’t get the wrong idea. There are a lot of things I still need to do a lot of soul-searching on. Doesn’t mean I think less of myself. I’m trying to learn my way through life, just like anyone else.

I never told anyone how they should be. I just said what happened is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, expect things to get much worse, and while I accept people's blind-sighted nature it still disappoints me.[/b]

The thing about this ideology is that, to be (yourself) balanced, you must apply it to all things. You must apply it to death, but joy as well. To condemn someone for their empathy for another’s death, because that death is insignificant in the grand scheme, is to have to ridicule yourself for taking pride in your art (making music) because it is insignificant, in the grand scheme. The birth of your first child is insignificant in the grand scheme. Your life, my life, is insignificant in the grand scheme. We are all but tiny cogs in the great machine - Replaceable. Expendable. - This is true. However that is something that we have in relation to each other. And it is around this point where our ideas differ.
You see us all as equally worthless. I see us all at equal worth. Half-empty / Half-full. It doesn’t change the fact that we are all born the same, and we die the same (in terms of “that we die” not “how we die.”)

The funny thing about this is that I see you go on about how zero and infinity are but different interpretations of the same value, how the “difference” is all an illusion, and yet you set in your mind that we are all worthless, and not simply “of equal worth.”
Think about that, for a moment.

And, in response to that, you continually seek to elicit compassion through other unrelated examples of suffering, and continually bring up a wide array of unrelated situations of how people doing heinous acts is comparable to my lack of compassion regarding this situation. Do you realize that, by making those comparisons you are seeing yourself as better than others for having compassion and, in essence, 'condemning' me to a level beneath you?[/b]

I speak in analogies a lot. Some of them you may agree with, some you may not. However, if you would see the comparisons I’ve made on anything further than just a superficial level, you would see that I’m simply comparing ideals.
I am not comparing you to a killer. I’m comparing your indifference toward human life to a killer’s indifference toward human life. It takes many other factors in the mind of a killer, to make them a killer, so try not to get too hung up on the fact that I used you and a killer in the same analogy, and try to actually notice what area of comparison I was illustrating. Any comparison that you want to form about the analogies, beyond that, is your own misconception. Not mine.

As far as comparing myself: You just came in here and condemned basically everyone, at once, who does not have the same Save the Planet mind-frame that you have. You may feel it makes you a better person than them, but I don’t believe people having what I perceive as faults as making me a better person than them. I believe that recognizing my own faults and trying to rectify them makes me a better person, individually, but has nothing to do with what I think of you, or anyone else. (By that logic, I could say you think you are better than much of the human species, by comparing them to rats who, at least, know not to shit where they live.)

We are all equally worthless. Worth is something self-imposed as a farce to give your life some sort of special meaning. [/b]

Not true. Worth is relative, subjective, sure, but it is very real.

Tell the child whose legs were severed in an accident that the surgeon working to help him walk again is worthless. Tell someone whose home was destroyed by a fire that a complete stranger who takes him in is worthless. Tell the flood victims of Katrina that the people that did whatever they could to save them are worthless. So I guess we should just go burn down the hospitals, then, eh?
Human life is worthless, so what’s the point of saving it? Right?

Any emotion, (admittedly) even my disappointment, is useless and serves no purpose but to distract you from yourself. Emotions are inconsequential, and illogical distractions. period.[/b]

Some of the greatest contributions to mankind were founded on emotion. As a musician, I’d figure you would know this.

I may have assumed your thought process based off of how you talked down to me, but I never told anyone how they should think.[/b]

No. You told us how everyone should think, by getting so worked up about people that don’t think the same as you, in regards to the well-being of this planet.

I do respect that people are different, I only said it disturbs me that people are so blind to themselves they are unable to see the answer to their woes, right in front of them. Although, what's your excuse for caring? Does it do anything other than make you think you're in another class than someone else who doesn't care to hone their emotions in such a way? That's how it comes across, and that's a bit hypocritical wouldn't you say? [/b]

That’s how it may come across to someone that doesn’t (seem to) care about anyone that doesn’t have a direct impact on their life. (Although, I’d have no gauge of how worthless you see your “loved ones,” other than their falling under your blanket description of “worthless.”) Do you even have “loved” ones? Does anyone mean anything to you? If so, why? What makes them so special as to deserve your love?

I care because, until given a reason not to, I treat people the way I would like to be treated. I empathize with people that lose loved ones because, having lost my dad two years ago (even though that wasn’t the start of my empathy, simply an example) I know what it’s like to live with nothing but a memory of the people you love, and not be able to continue the experience of having them in your life.
I care because I’m a father. I love my child and I feel that no one who loses a child, mother, father, brother, sister, best friend, etc. is any less prone to the kind of heartache I’d feel at the loss of the members of my family. It is nothing but an honest acknowledgement and respect for the pain someone must endure, when someone close to them dies. It often takes a lot of resilience to fully recover from something like that, and I’m simply not the type of person who would see someone devastated by the loss of their child and think to myself “Oh BOO-HOO. Suck it up, ya wuss. The kid was just as worthless as the rest of us.” Sorry. Not the way I look at life.

The way I see it, the difference between you and I, in this area, (and no, I’m not counting this as evidence that I’m “Better than you,” so let’s not go there) is that you are justifying your callousness toward your fellow man on your assumption that the afterlife even exists. You’ve fallen in line with a belief system (not one that I’m saying isn’t true, mind you) and you’ve identified with the idea so much that you have no concern for Earthly existence (whether yours or anyone else’s) because you’re looking forward to the “transition.”
In the Anna Nicole thread, the first thing you commented on someone expressing any sort of pity for her death was “Why is everyone afraid of death?” I thought this was an interesting assumption. Where, in either one of these threads about death, has anyone expressed a fear of it? Where has anyone implied that expressing condolences has anything to do with their own fear of death? This seems to be what a lot of your argument is based on.
I’m not afraid of death. I’m not completely sold on the afterlife, but I don’t deny its possibility. If it exists, hey, bring it on. That doesn’t stop me from having sympathy for a person (regardless of whether or not I know them) for the loss of a loved one.

I didn't fall in any line with any way of thinking. That's just it, Im only dancing between two sides of the same coin.

I'll tell you what, if it makes you feel better, you win. The end.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

I'll tell you what, if it makes you feel better, you win. The end.
[/b]

......Oh please, man. How insulting.

..I "win?"

What if it doesn't "make me feel better?" Do I "lose," by forfeiture?

You seem to enjoy putting words in my mouth so I'll let you fill in the gaps however you see it.

What did you expect through having this debate exactly? At least I'm being honest with myself in knowing it's all pointless anyway...all one big distraction

Originally Posted by SolSkye

You seem to enjoy putting words in my mouth so I'll let you fill in the gaps however you see it.

What did you expect through having this debate exactly? At least I'm being honest with myself in knowing it's all pointless anyway...all one big distraction
[/b]

Wow....what a disappointing twist.

I don't know what's worse; the delusion that my quoting exactly what you've said, and responding to it with (what has been clearly stated as: simply my opinion), was somehow "putting words in your mouth" (something that you've been guilty of, plenty of times, throughout this conversation) or that you were so gung ho about continuing the debate "since we were still cool," and you figured you had a point, but now opt-out on the grounds of "it's all one big distraction," without even dignifying my points with a response. Seriously, I never saw it coming. Guess I should have, though. Oh well.

It was interesting, while it lasted.
Peace 4 now.