Thread: The 13 Moon Calendar: A tool for "lucid living"

Ahem. One, the Mayan 260 day calendar means absolutely nothing. Their other calendar was remarkably accurate, but their religious calendar has absolutely nothing to do with everyday life. NOTHING. And to the stuff about turtles and dolphins: Sure. So a turtle has 13 inner marks and 28 outer marks. Magnificent. That proves what? And a dolphin's gums and teeth. I'm ABSOLUTELY sure that they spend all day looking in a mirror, counting the 28 ridges on their teeth so they can find out what day it is.
EDIT: I'm also fairly certain that Augustus Caesar had nothing to do with the fact that August has 31 days. The stuff about "That not being fair" seems like too trivial a reason to give one month another day. Also, if he just took a day from February and gave it to August, September should have 31 days too.

Other than that, the 13 month moon calendar is very interesting and makes sense. But I don't try to read too much into it.

Hey Tsen..

Firstly thankyou for replying.

My main interest in sharing this knowledge, is to get people to start questioning their use of the Gregorian calendar, and to at least consider the *possiblity* of "natural time". The thing is there are stronger forces in the universe than our little selfs. You only need to go out and about in the ocean, and swim around in the waves for a while to realise that. Interestingly, it's the movement of the moon in relation to the earth, that is infact responsible for the tides. A surfer for example, knows the power of the waves, and rides with them. This is very much what we are trying to do by following the 13 Moon Calendar, allowing ourselves to ride a deeper, more universal current of energy...

Of course, when the idea of the 13 Moon Calendar is mentioned, most people's gut reaction is to FEAR the idea. After all we've been following the Gregorian Calendar for hundreds of years now, and nobody ever asked us to stop and think about the preciousness of TIME, and what the study and exploration of that might mean for our lives. Instinctively, we feel we need to support the dogma that is the Gregorian Calendar, or at least put to the rest any idea that there may be such a thing as natural time.

So yes. I'm glad at least you can agree, on a purely logical basis, that

13 Moons of 28 Days + 1 Day Out of Time

makes alot more sense than

12 Months of Unequal Measure (31 days, 31 days, 28 or 29 days, 31 days, 30 days, 31 days, 30 days, 31 days, 31 days, 31 days, 30 days, and 31 days)

Now of course, it's my belief, that if they were right about this simple fact, perhaps there are other things we can learn from the cultures which have been following the 13 Moon Calendar, for so long. The Lakota Indians, for example, have been following the 13 Moon Calendar for over 5000 years:

Originally posted by Author Jamie Sams
Associated with the powers of endurance and longevity, the ancient vertebrate Turtle has 13 scales on its shell.\"The first calendar that North American Indians ever had was Turtle's shell...The Earth Mother, who was represented by the most fertile creature of our planet, the Turtle, showed our Ancestors how to mark the passing of each moon cycle. Turtle's shell bore the 13 moons of the year inside of a frame that formed the circle we call the Sacred Hoop, or Medicine Wheel - representing the relationship of all life to all life.

There are all kinds of patterns in nature, but don't you think it's just a little interesting, that some of them just keep on reooccuring. We only have to look to our DNA, to know the power of natural forms. So surely the fact, that this 13 Moon 28 Day Cycle is embedded in the form of the turtle and the dolphin, while perhaps not 100% conclusive (hey. I'm not a dolphin right), gives at least a little cause for deeper exploration.

EDIT: I'm also fairly certain that Augustus Caesar had nothing to do with the fact that August has 31 days. The stuff about \"That not being fair\" seems like too trivial a reason to give one month another day. Also, if he just took a day from February and gave it to August, September should have 31 days too. [/b]

Now to answer this question. Actually it's true. Augustus Caesar, did name August after himself, and he did take that extra day from February. Previously the month we know now as "Augustus" was called "sextilius" (i'm not sure if I have the spelling right), meaning the "sixth" month. In actuality of course, it's the eighth. That confusion still colours the Gregorain Calendar. September, October, November, December all represent the words for the 7th,8th,9th and 10th months, whereas in actuality they are the 9th,10th,11th, and 12th. The Gregorian Calendar, is literally composed of tale after tale of revisions, and some of them are very funny indeed!



Nick

PS. Also with regards to your comments about the Mayan 260-day Cycle, it's fair to say that it does have a more spiritual theme to it, however the fact is that it does also connect to actual physical cycles as well... In his own work, John Major Jenkins, shows how this connects to the Venus cycle, and the precession of the equinoxes, amongst others.

Originally posted by John Major Jenkins
\"Tzolkin is the 'key' to both terrestrial and celestial processes. It's kind of the common modulator or common denominator of the two realms. This is how we can understand Mayan astrology. They discovered the numerical and ritual key. Most important in the astrology is the reference to the human gestation period of approximately 260 days. As such, our own basic and shared rhythm of unfolding is seen to be intimately related to the cycles of the planets, moon and sun. This is more than just planets \"influencing\" us - rather we share the same rhythms of unfolding that the planets do because, ultimately, everything springs from the same source. Everything, on some level, has been imparted by the same rhythm of unfolding and is therefore related by a form of synchronistic correspondence.\" -Author John Major Jenkins

It's important to note here that the 13 Moon Calendar, is not actually the Mayan Calendar, but a modern planetary application of the universal time science of the Maya. The interesting thing about the Tzolkin, or Harmonic Module, is that it provides a lens through whioch we can explore the passage of time, and learn more about ourselves, and the changing patterns of the world.

It's a little more qualitiative in nature, but hey, so is Lucid Dreaming! If we simply reduced everything we experience to a purely mental analysis, it's not half as much fun! And this again, is the joy in followin the 13 Moon Calendar. It's experiential; you get back what you put in. It's a way of aligning your intention with the world at large, and can help us to manifest our deeper wishes. It's a tool by which we can empower ourselves, and regain awareness of life, as dream.

Nick

Well this sounds nice and everything, but what exactly does this "moon calendar" have to do with the moon?

1 lunar phase cycle takes 29.53 days to complete, not 28. To match the lunar phases up to a year and create a calendar of months based on lunar phases and year on the earth's motion around the sun, you would need to use a 19 year cycle.

yeah 13 28-day months + 1 day makes a nice symmetrical calendar, but the months have no more real connection to lunar phases than our own.

For a real lunisolar calendar see the Chinese calendar or the Jewish one

For a strictly lunar calendar see the Islamic calendar

BTW, the actual name for this "13 moon" calendar is the International Fixed Calendar and the purpose in creating it has nothing to do with lunar phases or astronomical cycles. 13 moon calendar?? where do people come up with this crap?

Well, ideally the 13-month calendar follows the lunar phases, but like you said, the Islamic, Chinese and Jewish ones are more accurate. The calendar would fall out of synch with the moon phases within a month or so. And even if we DID decide to change our calendar to suit a more logical choice, it would be nearly impossible to pull of the change. The US tried to switch to metrics in the 80's, but everybody was too used to empirical to make the switch. I posted a while ago about how the French tried to institute 'metric time' but gave up soon afterwards. Changing small things, like from gallons to liters, is much easier than changing entire calendars. People LITERALLY plan their days around them.

Hiya dream-scape!

Yes. You're right. The synodic lunar cycle (new moon to new moon) does measure roughly 29.5 days. The 13 Moon Calendar, while primarily based upon the solar rhythm, brings us into recognition of the simple fact that there is always a 13th lunar cycle which transits from one year to the next. The vast majority of the 13 Moon Calendar's show the new moon, and full moon dates, and thus allow us to extend our awareness to encompass both the lunar and solar cycles, and remember our true place in nature.

As the source of energy and life on Earth, the sun is responsible for the passage of the seasons, and is thus usually associated with the energies of outward manifestation. However, the sun does not move alone, it is engagaged in a dance with the moon, which as a reflector of the sun's light is traditionally associated with the more receptive and intuitive elements of our being.

It's important to remember that the 13 Moon Calendar does not claim to replace the "Chinese calendar or the Jewish one, or even the Islamic calendar, but rather provide a unified template, by which all the calendar's can synchronise to one another.

The claim that the actual name for this 13 moon calendar, is the "International Fixed Calendar, is however incorrect. Yes, you are right in thinking that there was a move to implement the 13 Moon Calendar. As early as 1923, the forerunner to the United Nations, the League of Nations, called for proposals to reform the Gregorian Calendar. After all, why should our everyday social arrangements rely on such an irregular measure?

More than 500 proposals were received. Of these three were shortlisted. The 13 Moon 28 Day Calendar was by far the most popular - 98% of 1,300 businesses supported it. The 13 Moon Calendar, known as you suggest as the "International Fixed Calendar" was represented by Mr.Moses Cotsworth and supported by people such as Eastman Kodak, and the International Chamber of Commerce. The League of Nations promised the world a new calendar by January 1, 1933, yet the Vatican Church gathered thed supported it needed to defeat the movement., claiming that a "Day Out of Time" would destroy the cycle off the seven-day-week and bring chaos anarchy to the world. It's funny then, that in a world surrounded by the threats of war and terrorism, that the Day Out of Time is now celebrated as a Day of Global Celebration of Peace Through Culture.

The 13 Moon "Dreamspell" Calendar aims to reintegrate man and woman with nature, and is unique because it is synchronised with the 260-day count, first used by the Maya. The 13 Moon Calendar Change Movement is first and foremost a "Peace Movement", which aims to replace the ethic of "time is money", responsible for the greed and self-interest so dominant in today's culture, with one where "time is art"...

In acknowledging that "people LITERALLY plan their days" around a calendar, we also recognise the vast potential that is available, to humanity, to release the paradigm of fear and separation which governs the world today, and replace it with one more centered around the basics of equality, trust, and love. After all, you vote once every four years, but we use a calendar each and every day. The 13 Moon Calendar, provides a mechanism, by which even the most ordinary of people, can signal our intention, for peace, and acknowledge the ongoing journey that is embedded in such a commitment.



I think it's fun, but of course, it takes a bit of getting used to!!

The 13 month calendar was defeated by the League of Nations, when the World Calendar was submitted to them. The 13 month calendar gained favor among businesses at first because at the time it was the most rational and simple plan.

However, most businesses are based on quarter years, and 13 months is not easily divisible by four. This leads to fractional months in the business world, which is really inconvenient. It is also really not all that practical or applicable (it is a pretty drastic change to go from a 12 month to a 13 month).

To solve this the World Calendar was drafted, which aims to be simple and stable like the 13 month calendar, but to be practical and applicable as well. Also a perennial calendar, it is comprised of 4 equal quarters of months of 31, 30, and 30 days. The end of each year has a Worldsday or World Holiday and a Leapyear Day at the end of the second quarter on leap years (designated by a W, not a numbered day -- this keeps it perennial).

This calendar provided the simplicity and stability of the 13 month calendar, but also overcame its downfalls to not really being practical or applicable. Thus it gained much favor over the 13 month proposal. That is why the League dropped the 13 month calendar and in 1937 submitted only the World Calendar to various nations for their opinions.

*Edit* I am just pointing out here that it was the League's decision to stop pushing the 13 month calendar, and that decision came primarily not as a result of the Vatican, but as the result of a more practical and applicable calendar being drafted. The decision came in light of a calendar draft submitted to the League by the government of Chile, that was designed to fix the problems that the 13 month calendar has with the modern world.

Wow... anyone who uses that many exclamation marks when opening a new thread has me questioning their sanity. Ok so I don't know much about the calendars etc, but say if someone switched to this cycle, then what? I don't know about you but I really dont' plan that many things in months.

"And here's somethign cool. I've always found the fact that dolphins and turtles have the 13 Moon 28 Day cycle built into their form, amazing!" Im quite sure that turtles and dolphins do not have these things 'built into them'. If you look hard enough, you can find many coincidences in nature. Any disposition that these animals have to following 'a 13 month calendar' stands to reason - just about every species of animal follow lunar cycles - it's their only means of keeping time. It does not mean that they follow some supposed calendat.

Augustus Caesar can kiss my ass..

Wow Tsen, can you have an open minded conversation? It seems that you disregaurded that information about the 13 Moon Calendar before you read it. Ok so what if Dolphins and Turtles carry the natural cycle in one way or another. Did you ever think that woman carry the cycle? You can't alter their natural cycle. Every woman on Earth naturally keeps the cycle..13 times a year they have their period... Is that proof enough?

In my beliefs, I am going to be straight foreward. I hate religon. Hate is such a strong word..but look what it causes. Just like Nationalism causes problems, Religon is the mother of all problems. Once again the power of the "Church" screwing with the natural order of things. Hey people everyone will realize eventually that religon is just a bunch of grass chewed by a cow...and excreted...and you people that dont realize it eat that shit every day. (No Offense thats just how I feel and it seems to be a popular belief with the younger generations nowadays)

You all should consider going to the Library or stopping over at Barnes and Noble to get this book that will make you think for a long long time. The book is Bringers of the Dawn, by Barbara Marciniak.

Other good Books/Authors:

Ramtha
Barbara Marciniak- Bringers of the Dawn, Family of Light, Earth, The oath to Empowerment
Barbaba Hand Clow- The Pleidian Agenda, The heart of Christos
Eckert Tolle - The Power of Now
Deepak Chokpra- A ton of Books

I highly recommend all but to really boggle your mind Read Barbara Marciniak!!

The 13 Moonth Calendar....hmmm
I mean c'mon people the Moons have a shitload to do with how we act at any given time. Us humans are made up of 75% water give or take...The moon does have an effect on us...just as it effects the ocean tide. Heres the really shitty thing, for thousands of years us Humans have been more and more cramped into a tiny tiny box. Whats in this box? Well for one thing TV, Microwaves, Houses...etc. How can we fit so many things into a box? Who knows. But as we speak we are breaking free...and eventually (by 2012, the Winter Solstice, December 21st) we will uncramp ourselves out of these boxes.

People that are in the box say OMG thats nonsense, thats this thats that, anything but sane. What is sane? That goes against my religon and everything I beleive...blah blah blah. How are these people going to get out of the box if they are lost in their Televisions and their Cars, and their Bank Accounts...which will all be trivial sooner than later...Well I'll tell you..take a look at mother nature, A living breathing entity. It loves all of us, and we shit on it. As you can see Earth is cleansing itself, its disgustingly filthy...and this is what will shake up people and their boxes to the point where they will question everything. (The following is from a religous nut who is in a box)
Recently after the Tsunami, a mother who lost all her children to those waters is questioning everything...

She says "I dont understand...I listened to the Bible...and it says this and that and cursing is bad, so I never cursed, and blah blah whatever...Why did this happen to me and take my 3 children away? WTF! " If she questions only a biut further she will realize that Religon only gives people faith for times that are not faloling apart. What will happen when things start falling apart rappidly? What is your religon going to do for you than? Absolutely Not a thing. And this will spark something in Us Humans (The ones who want to Evolve) And if you dont want to come for the insane ride...if you're "Not Game" than you will simply leave this 3D plane. But this will spark a search. A worldwide search for something that actually makes sense...at this point people are going to want to beleive anything after eralizing that waking up early for church on Sundays, every year of their life just missed them out on...Lucid Dreams !!

The entire world is completely insane. Whats going on with the Earth as we speak? Why Earthquakes, and Blizzards, Landslides, all of which cause mass casualties, and scare the shit out of people. Well people unfortunetly its only going to get worse! How do you get a species out of the habitat its been living in for thousands of years? In our case a box... Shake it up and rip it apart, and thats exactly whats going to happen. How do you get people to start questioning reality, and to start questioning everything. Who are we/I am why the hell am I stuck in this tiny box? I guess we'll all find out

These are my beleifs (totally) and I felt like sharing. About 2 years ago I had an Amazing experience that is Unexplainable..no words can describe it. After doing research but on a higher level just knowing undoubtedly...

I've been through the open-minded discussion before. I do have an open mind. But a dolphin's teeth have absolutely NIL to do with time. I'll be back in a half hour or so to edit this. School's almost out now, so I'll have to finish at home.

EDIT:

Well, I'm back now. Took longer than I thought to get home, so I had to wait until today to get online. Anyway, here goes the rest:

Most of those things are coincidental or irrelevant. Dolphin's teeth and turtle's shells for example. The point you made about women's natural cycles was better, but still not a fully applicable reason. After all, most all animals don't have a cycle exactly equal to (or even porportional to) the lunar cycles.

Also, remember that this calendar doesn't fit the lunar cycles perfectly anyways, so it wouldn't matter in the end.

Next, the thing about water in our bodies and the moon.

The tides only occur because of the moon's gravity pulling on it. Now, let's think about this: Our bodies ARE made up of lots of water. But does gravity ONLY affect water? No! It doesn't have any different of an effect on liquids or solids.

Also, it's more likely to affect the blood flow rather than the water in us. Even then, the effects aren't that great--After all, the effect it has on the ocean isn't relatively large, and the only reason it's visible at all is because the ocean is so huge. The effect on our body would be minimal-almost indistinguishable, even with today's equipment.


Now, the final point. Even if you don't take my word on anything else I've said about the moon's gravity, this is the part where your theory gets royally screwed.

See, this calendar is based on the moon's cycles. That is, how much of the moon is visible at any given time from the earth. Now, does gravity care how much of the moon is visible? No. Does gravity care if the earth is between the moon and us? No. So, the moon would affect us 24/7, not just when we can see a full moon or a new moon or a crecent moon or any other phase you can think of. It's always there, it doesn't just dissapear every night.

Get it yet?

Most of those things are coincidental or irrelevant. Dolphin's teeth and turtle's shells for example[/b]

Firstly there is no such thing as a coincidence! Every time you bump into someone you havent seen in a while in a random place or you realize some things that are really strange...this is no coincidence, you have things to find out. Most people simply disregard these occurences...but If you simply realize they exist and get the information you need life becomes funner and easier. Why do people simply brush off these \"Coincidences\" is b/c of their Ego. Most people are embarrased to go and say something to an old friend.

The tides only occur because of the moon's gravity pulling on it. Now, let's think about this: Our bodies ARE made up of lots of water. But does gravity ONLY affect water? No! It doesn't have any different of an effect on liquids or solids[/b]

.

Ok, gravity effects any type of liquid and basically anything. But as you stated it doesnt matter where the moon is between the earth and sun that makes sense but did you think that if the moon is over by China and we are getting a pull in a different direction it could effect our attitudes and for that matter life in general? I.E. If your hanging upside down and you get the blood rush to your head, yes you will prolly get a headache. If the moon is to our left yes It can have a different effect than if its on the right. Every little thing effects us small or not.

Here is the main thing. Time as we know it is relative. It simply doesnt exist. What do I mean? Well "Time" was originally measured by the Mayans and the time between full moons. Thats how the created that "Crazy, Loony" calendar. If its so crazy and loony why would Pope John the 13th want it? Doesnt anyone else think its strange that it was the 13th pope? 13 Moonths. 13 is an unlucky number in our society? Coincidence? Of course not! Theres no such thing!! Its so simple..."Time" was measured by "time"between moons...its simple once you have a foundation like that...you have 13 Months...easily broken down into more "time", Weeks, than Days, than Hours...its simple...

*sigh*

You don't get it, do you?

You were using the moon's gravity as an example in favor of this calendar. It may affect us, I won't deny that. But it won't have anything to do with a lunar calendar. The moon orbits the earth more than once a day. Therefore, using it to support a calendar based on the moon's cycles isn't logical. It doesn't affect us according to what day it is, or what month it is.

Now, that thing about the Mayans. First, the Mayans didn't invent time, as it existed before them. You make it sound as if they invented it as some clever gismo, or that it never existed to begin with. It does exist. Whether you like it or not, time's here and it will be. True, time is relative. But do you really understand what that means? Motion is relative. Does that mean that motion does not exist? Time was around before the Mayans because there was a history before the Mayans. Things happened before they showed up on this Earth. The Chinese had a calendar before them. A more accurate one, I believe, too.

Anyway. I get sidetracked easily, so it's hard for me to stick to a point. Sorry if anybody gets lost in this mess...

Relativity in time has to do with the frame of reference that a person is observing from. On this earth, since our frames of reference are all moving fairly slowly, time doesn't change much from person to person. If we could move at 25,000 mph for a few months without slowing down, we'd only alter our frame of reference by a second or two.

Now, about that "Crazy, Loony" calendar again. Now, do you understand that the Mayans had two calendars? One was very accurate, and represented the true passing of a year. The other was a religious calendar and had almost nothing to do with the year. This was where the Mayans got their idea of the world's beginning and end. The whole December 21 thing is based on this calendar. The only significance of that day is that it's the same on both calendars. That's it. Big woopdie-doo.

The Mayans had one good calendar, and that's the one that you're reffering to as the lunar calendar. This one I'd say is fairly correct, but not insanely clever or even superior to our calendar. The other calendar is the one that I'd refer to as "Crazy and Loony" or whatever. This one has absolutely no real meaning. But that isn't what this discussion is about, as it doesn't have anything to do with the moon's cycles.

Well, I'll read over this in a sec to make sure I didn't leave anything out. Sorry for the jumbled mess.

If the Mayan Calendar means nothing why would Pope John the 13th take it and "Tweek" it...?

Pope John XIII? When did he perform said "Tweaking"? Give me a link to the info. Anyway. I never said the Mayan calendar didn't mean anything, I said that one of the two meant nothing. Please confirm which of the two you are referring to. Their religious calendar, or their astronomical calendar?

Er...coincidentally, what's with that? You seem to believe in the December 21 dooms-day deal, but you hate religion. Yet the whole doomsday was concieved by a religion. You're a walking contradiction.

I got bored and decided that somebody out there must of compiled a list of dates that the world was supposed to end upon. And I found one!. Among the other two hundred or so dates there, the Mayan calendar plays a part. God I will so savour the day everybody goes outside antcipating some sort of magical comet to hit us in the head or whatever, then nothing happens. I will just sit there, laugh and get completely pissed while everybody is outside in the freezing cold wondering why they've been had. Oh yes.

Hey just a quick question, Kaniaz.

Did anyone actually say in this thread, here that 2012 was the apocalypse, or the end of the World?

I don't remember it.

They have now. Dammit.

Hehe yes. Indeed they have..

Common sense shows that the pope did take and manipulate the calendar. If it was 28 days 13 months....what is it now?? Thats the "tweek"

Originally posted by explora
Hey just a quick question, Kaniaz.

Did anyone actually say in this thread, here that 2012 was the apocalypse, or the end of the World?

I don't remember it.

Nope, but everybody parades the Mayan calendar as being the end of the world type thing. So what the hell.

I think this is a trick. I accept that it has some sense. But this calendar is also not perfect as the Gregorian one.

Each civilization of this world has their own unique calendars. Now the scientists emerged from those civilization/culture/religion are arguing that their's is the best.

And the reason why I hadnt became a member of ld4all is that their webpage is based on this concept. And the webpages about the 13 moon concept are talking like the Oracle in Matrix trilogy.

Now I got a wonderful idea. I am going to promote the traditional hindu calender in a same way. haha

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_calendar

It is complex aswell as accurate than 13 moon calendar. Howzaat ?

can you say that the world is not ending kaniaz? u think your feet will walk on water. it could be nearer than thought an im not gunna save yoo dumb ass. viva LA motha earth!