Thread: Map of the Inner Reality

interesting, but thus far i fail to see how it is anything but exploring the possibilities of the lucid dreamscape...

i've registered on the forum you linked out of curiousity though. i did find out about consciously experiencing dreamscape with the label "astral projecting" first, so i owe it another look at least.

I agree with Asher in part, but I'd assume you're delving deeper into your mind in order to attain a higher spiritual understanding. However what I do not understand is F3 - Afterlife stage. You clearly aren't trying to kill yourself, and you can't physically go there, which means it is just another invention of the mind. We do not know whether there is an afterlife, and if so, what type, so any afterlife seen in lucid dreams must be a complete fabrication, and not an accurate representation of it. Is the sole purpose of the F3 stage to have something which you believe to be the afterlife, in order to progress to F4?

I have my opinion on all these forms of consciousness.
they do not coencide too much with yours.
With all due respect, what are your sources? Any aside from, The Astral Pulse?

I didn't get to F3 because I went out last night. F3 is entirely different than F2. F2 is liquid. IN F2 can you can change the landscape by just thinking about it. However F3 (the after life ) is not liquid at all. It is more liquid than the physical (F1), but nowhere near the moldability of F2.

F3 is where you can meet deceased people and bring back verifiable information. I don't want people to BELIEVE me, I want someone that is adept at Lucid dreaming to try and get to the 3d blackness and then move on to F3. Then they will KNOW what I am talking about. This is not theory, this is from personal experience, and I consider myself a skeptical person.

I have my opinion on all these forms of consciousness.
they do not coencide too much with yours.
With all due respect, what are your sources? Any aside from, The Astral Pulse?[/b]

Are your opinion based on experience or theory? Just try it and then get back to me. Honestly, I think you will be amazed. I left Astral pulse because the people there failed to realize that when they projected they were actually projecting into their subconscious mind and not a fantasy place called the "Astral". They would come back talking about a guide telling them that they were the Omega (the return of Christ). What they failed to realize is that the guide was created by their own mind and told them whatever they wanted to hear. However, Frank (a moderator there, that also left) understood this and was probably the foremost researcher in this area besides Robert Monroe. Before listening to Frank I too would fly around and just have fun, now I take a different approach.

interesting, but thus far i fail to see how it is anything but exploring the possibilities of the lucid dreamscape[/b]

this is simple to answer. You haven't gone far enough. You will know when you exit F2 (dreamscape) and enter the Fzero (3d blackness) and go on to F3 (the after life). You will know by the properties of the environment. Trust me


Try it,
Luke

Have you met deceased people? If so, what do they look like?

like they do when they were alive (i think), but most people seem to retain the "best" self image. For instance, you rarely, if ever, see people that are like 80.

Just see for yourself

i find it hard to believe that if theres a mystical gathering place of all deceased people they would have any need for bodies, since the physical body exists only in the physical world.

I think what he's saying is that in this afterlife (like another layer of the astral plane), is where the dead gather, but as they have no bodies, and are only spirits, they retain their best self image.
Imagine if you were stuck as a spirit in the astral plane, if you had the option, you'd choose to look your best.
Would this afterlife be another layer on top of the real world? I.e there are places that exist in both (e.g Britain or USA exist in the afterlife, and the spirits just roam this other layer of the world)?

Personally, I don't believe that this is physically or scientifically possible, however as I have no proof for or against, I can't make a sure judgement.
Though it would be quite cool if the afterlife was like an infinite lucid dream.

I will update my first post with more information, but I don' t want this post to turn into people posting their theoritical belief systems. This is not theory, this is a road map for anyone to wants to EXPERIENCE the wider reality. Everyone here is only staying within Focus2, and maybe occasionaly FZero. I want you guys to experience more.

What I want is for someone, obviously other than me, to follow this information and post their experiences. So, if their is anyone that is able to lucid dream/astral travel and is up to test out this map let me know. I know that as with any forum on this topic their is only a select few that actively LD/ Astral travel, and this post is for them.

Try it,
Luke

I think I can understand what you mean by '3d blackness' to an extent, sometimes it looks like hypnogogic imagry, but it is much more defined and tactile, very odd

Care to post some of your experiences?

I think I can understand what you mean by '3d blackness' to an extent, sometimes it looks like hypnogogic imagry, but it is much more defined and tactile, very od[/b]

Not quite, but you are very close. I think I know what you are talking about. Before a WILD/(phase) and you are looking at the blackness behind your eyelids you will notice the blackness becomes "textured". For instance, I might see silverish squiggly lines(kind of like motor oil when mixed with water), or little red dots in the distance. This is a guide post that you are on the right track. True FZero (3d blackness) is when you are IN the blackness floating around. To me this blackness has little dots of light all around. It kinda looks like I am floating in outerspace. Many times you can accidently get to Fzero from the dreamscape simply because the dreamscape just simply ends, and you are stuck in Fzero for a time until you either fall asleep or you simply create another dream scene (go back to F2), or transistion onto Focus3

I am now going to give you other guidepost in which to look for after the "texture" stage and on up into entry into Focus 2, then read about T2 (transition stage 2) in order to get to FZero:

:----Texture stage----->

1. MABA (mind awake/ body asleep). I love to feel this stage. It comes on with your body feeling like you are falling, then you mind "pops" into a crystal clear thought. Much, if not all, the diologue in your mind falls away, and usually you feel detached from your physical body.


2. To transition into Focus2 you can do many things like wait for sleep paralysis, or you can just simply phase into F2. I will briefly describe the steps in a phase. What you do is create scenery in your mind and look at yourself from a third person perspective. Have this 3rd person perspective of yourself interact with this environment. This scenery HAS to be interesting, enough to capture your complete focus. Use all of your senses. Feel the sand beneth your feet, then sun on your back, the scent of the ocean air, etc. Then, transition your consciousness into this representation and continue to use your senses from a first person perspective. You willl know you phased when you are completely interacting in the dream environment.

3. Do the Transition 2 (T2) to get to FZero (FZ)

I will give an example from the inventor Nikola Tesla's autobiography then give an explanation of what he is doing.

Then I instinctively commenced to make excursions beyond the limits of the small world of which I had knowledge, and I saw new scenes. These were at first very blurred and indistinct, and would flit away when I tried to concentrate my attention upon them. They gained in strength and distinctness and finally assumed the concreteness of real things. I soon discovered that my best comfort was attained if I simply went on in my vision further and further, getting new impressions all the time, and so I began to travel; of course, in my mind. Every night, (and sometimes during the day), when alone, I would start on my journeys -- see new places, cities and countries; live there, meet people and make friendships and acquaintances and, however unbelievable, it is a fact that they were just as dear to me as those in actual life, and not a bit less intense in their manifestations. This I did constantly until I was about seventeen, when my thoughts turned seriously to invention. Then I observed to my delight that i could visualize with the greatest facility. I needed no models, drawings or experiments. I could picture them all as real in my mind. Thus I have been led unconsciously to evolve what I consider a new method of materializing inventive concepts and ideas, which is radially opposite to the purely experimental and is in my opinion ever so much more expeditious and efficient.[/b]

1."Then I instinctively commenced to make excursions beyond the limits of the small world of which I had knowledge, and I saw new scenes. These were at first very blurred and indistinct, and would flit away when I tried to concentrate my attention upon them."

-----What he is talking about here is HI (Hyp imagery), this is the first thing you will notice before moving into F2

2."They gained in strength and distinctness and finally assumed the concreteness of real things. I soon discovered that my best comfort was attained if I simply went on in my vision further and further, getting new impressions all the time, and so I began to travel; of course, in my mind."

-----What he is talking about here is Phasing/WILD. He is now entering Focus2 (dreamscape), or he is phasing past focus2 and going directly into FZero which sometimes happens if you don't create a scene to phase into. Later in his book he describes the exact phasing process as:

"These luminous phenomena still manifest themselves from time to time, as when a new idea opening up possibilities strikes me, but they are no longer exciting, being of relatively small intensity. When I close my eyes I invariably observe first, a background of very dark and uniform blue, not unlike the sky on a clear but starless night. In a few seconds this field becomes animated with innumerable scintillating flakes of green, arranged in several layers and advancing towards me. Then there appears, to the right, a beautiful pattern of two systems of parallel and closely spaced lines, at right angles to one another, in all sorts of colors with yellow, green, and gold predominating. Immediately thereafter, the lines grow brighter and the whole is thickly sprinkled with dots of twinkling light. This picture moves slowly across the field of vision and in about ten seconds vanishes on the left, leaving behind a ground of rather unpleasant and inert grey until the second phase is reached. Every time, before falling asleep, images of persons or objects flit before my view. When I see them I know I am about to lose consciousness. If they are absent and refuse to come, it means a sleepless night. To what an extent imagination played in my early life, I may illustrate by another odd experience."


3. "Every night, (and sometimes during the day), when alone, I would start on my journeys -- see new places, cities and countries; live there, meet people and make friendships and acquaintances and, however unbelievable, it is a fact that they were just as dear to me as those in actual life, and not a bit less intense in their manifestations"

-----What he is talking about here is Focus3 (not the dreamscape). You can tell because he is phasing past Focus2 into Fzero (3d blackness, or greyness), then into F3 (what he calles the second part. He explains here:

"Then there appears, to the right, a beautiful pattern of two systems of parallel and closely spaced lines, at right angles to one another, in all sorts of colors with yellow, green, and gold predominating. Immediately thereafter, the lines grow brighter and the whole is thickly sprinkled with dots of twinkling light. This picture moves slowly across the field of vision and in about ten seconds vanishes on the left, leaving behind a ground of rather unpleasant and inert grey until the second phase is reached"

4. "This I did constantly until I was about seventeen, when my thoughts turned seriously to invention. Then I observed to my delight that i could visualize with the greatest facility. I needed no models, drawings or experiments. I could picture them all as real in my mind. Thus I have been led unconsciously to evolve what I consider a new method of materializing inventive concepts and ideas, which is radially opposite to the purely experimental and is in my opinion ever so much more expeditious and efficient"

----He is talking about using Fzero, with an overlay of F2 to work out experiments, and new inventions. This is very possible in FZero. I have created beautiful classical music in Fzero, but I dont know how to write or indentify notes so it is usless to me (although beautiful). He further explains:

"The moment one constructs a device to carry into practice a crude idea, he finds himself unavoidably engrossed with the details of the apparatus. As he goes on improving and reconstructing, his force of concentration diminishes and he loses sight of the great underlying principle. Results may be obtained, but always at the sacrifice of quality. My method is different. I do not rush into actual work. When I get an idea, I start at once building it up in my imagination. I change the construction, make improvements and operate the device in my mind. It is absolutely immaterial to me whether I run my turbine in thought or test it in my shop. I even note if it is out of balance. There is no difference whatever; the results are the same. In this way I am able to rapidly develop and perfect a conception without touching anything. When I have gone so far as to embody in the invention every possible improvement I can think of and see no fault anywhere, I put into concrete form this final product of my brain. Invariably my device works as I conceived that it should, and the experiment comes out exactly as I planned it. In twenty years there has not been a single exception. Why should it be otherwise? Engineering, electrical and mechanical, is positive in results. There is scarcely a subject that cannot be examined beforehand, from the available theoretical and practical data. The carrying out into practice of a crude idea as is being generally done, is, I hold, nothing but a waste of energy, money, and time"


Einstein was said to also have phased and used Focus2 to come up with his theory of realativity. Riding upon a lighting bolt in his mind.

Interesting stuff,
Luke

no doubt very fascinating,

I think you need to refine some technique for others to attempt your theory of this fzero to see if it is possible to obtain, and the success rate and factors therin

This sounds very interesting. To "phase" in F2 is it like a WILD? As in, you wake up in the mddle of the night, "wake up" your mind a little, and then get back in bed? When you get back in bed you begin to "phase" (imagine the scenery from a 3rd person view). Do you experience weird sensations such as HI, sounds, or vibrations? (These are what drove me away from WILDing in the beginning).

If you dont experience any of those sensations id be willing to try at it and post my results. Very interesting by the way.

i think you are supposed to be in a lucid dream first, and then do something to go beyond. WILD is only for getting into the lucid dream to begin with.

This sounds very interesting. To "phase" in F2 is it like a WILD? As in, you wake up in the mddle of the night, "wake up" your mind a little, and then get back in bed? When you get back in bed you begin to "phase" (imagine the scenery from a 3rd person view). Do you experience weird sensations such as HI, sounds, or vibrations? (These are what drove me away from WILDing in the beginning).

If you dont experience any of those sensations id be willing to try at it and post my results. Very interesting by the way.[/b]

Phasing is the same as a wild to a certain extent (WILD is more broad). You usually do hear auditory sound but you phase into F2, or the dreamscape. In an OBE you will feel the "Vibes" and wake up into something that looks like your immediate physical surroundings.

The reason I think the researches came up with the tern WILD is because they wanted to study the OBE/Astral projection phenomenom, but didn't want to get laughed at by their peers. Plus, OBE/AP terms have a bunch of mystical, religious, and other crap heap upon them. This is the same reason I use the Terms F1, F2, F3, F4. I use these terms because F2 is really the dreamscape or the Astral, but too many conotations have been heaped upon these terms. In order to research these different focus areas it is best not to delve into your subconscious mind with too many preconceived notions, because they will always come true (at least in F2). I find that lucid dreamers have a better grasp on this area than the "astral projection" crowd. Although, the lucid dreamers have no idea what lays beyond. They only play in F2 and are blind to what can be explored and accomplished.

Luke

The theory sounds promising, but I feel it is too linear. A more accurate map would be spherical with your conscious mind at the direct center. When you dream and reach different stages you would be choosing from an infinite spectrum of directions, though it would still be the same metaphysical distance from an given stage. In reality, this map would probably be more of a recursive fractal expanding indefinitely both inward and outward. But an interesting theory nontheless.

// cybereality

you speak of us 'playing in F2", and failing to go beyond...that we should be careful not to pull our preconceptions into F2 (where they will invariably come true).

one could just as easily view your arbitrary distinctions between F1, 2, 3, 4 as preconceptions which you drag into your dreamscape. it is an interesting system, but it is ludicrous to speak of it as inherently more worthwhile than 'playing in F2'.

.

In an OBE you will feel the "Vibes" and wake up into something that looks like your immediate physical surroundings[/b]

i have this frequently. actually, virtually every time i WILD. i am unclear what the distinction you were trying to make...or if you just prefered to use OBE instead of WILD in this instance for some reason.

What he is talking about here is Focus3 (not the dreamscape). You can tell because he is phasing past Focus2 into Fzero (3d blackness, or greyness), then into F3 (what he calles the second part. [/b]

about ten times i have WILDed into this 3D blackness. however, usually i then transition into either my bedroom, or i wake up. once i found the imagery of my front yard, and began a lucid there.


i find the phasing model to be interesting, but ultimately insubstantial from what i've seen. and i will tell you why.

it is the transition between Fzero and F3 that seems completely arbitrary and subjective. i have been in Fzero (if that's the label we are presently using) before, and then, as i stated above, transitioned into either my bedroom, or once into my front yard.

were these scenes in F3? i am assuming you will say "oh, no, you were in between F2 and F3, and transitioned back to F2 instead of F3". but ultimately, what's the difference?

what scene would i have to transition to from Fzero before it would jive with your subjective model of F3? a mostly stable realm where dream characters spoke of being deceased, and i could interact and even befriend them? something that 'feels' more 'real'? this is where you lose me..

It sounds like Fzero is simply a blank, 3 dimensional canvas. and you are trying to say that F2 is just surface paint, but if you go 'though' the canvas, you'll come to F3, which is somehow deeper, and less subjective.

F3 must have a canvas too. perhaps certain lucids are just so detailed, stable, and 'deeper', that you fail to see it, and so believe these lucids are on 'another level' than F2 experiences.


that is where this model breaks down for me. i am guessing you will say something vague like, "try it for yourself", or "you'll know when you experience it", but you have given no definitive criteria which separate F2 and F3.

perhaps you could elaborate on what you believe to be the difference between these two phases...

one could just as easily view your arbitrary distinctions between F1, 2, 3, 4 as preconceptions which you drag into your dreamscape. it is an interesting system, but it is ludicrous to speak of it as inherently more worthwhile than 'playing in F2'[/b]

Playing in F2 is fun, I know I've done my share. However, you play in the dream scenery you are given. If all you want to do is play in F2 I recommend first going to Fzero then creating any scenery you want and then phasing into it (which will be back in F2). It is very easy to distinguish F3 from F2. I have never been to F4 so I can not comment on that.

have this frequently. actually, virtually every time i WILD. i am unclear what the distinction you were trying to make...or if you just prefered to use OBE instead of WILD in this instance for some reason[/b]

The Wild term you guys use is more broad than the terms I use. Wild encompasses both phasing (astral projecting) and OBE'ing. So you are right.

about ten times i have WILDed into this 3D blackness. however, usually i then transition into either my bedroom, or i wake up. once i found the imagery of my front yard, and began a lucid there[/b]

In my initial post I posted a link to a discussion on another forum about what is possible in Fzero. If you don't know how magical this blank canvas is then you probably will phase anwhere because you will think it is boring just sitting there doing nothing.

it is the transition between Fzero and F3 that seems completely arbitrary and subjective. i have been in Fzero (if that's the label we are presently using) before, and then, as i stated above, transitioned into either my bedroom, or once into my front yard[/b]

Get there again and then try the transistion technique I posted in my first post. It works, you will know when you are going to F3 because a tunnel will open up, and the scenery will be nowhere near as liquid.

what scene would i have to transition to from Fzero before it would jive with your subjective model of F3? a mostly stable realm where dream characters spoke of being deceased, and i could interact and even befriend them? something that 'feels' more 'real'? this is where you lose me.. [/b]

First you will go into some kind of portal. With in F3 the possiblilties are endless, but yes you will most likely run into deceased people that usually want nothing to do with you. It is like going down the streets of New York and trying to start up a conversation with someone. At least this has been the case in some of the experiences I have had. The people there after transitioning to their respective area created societies, with government, money, Churches (yes, churches!), biblical law, etc.

No real "wierd" stuff happens like zombies, devil, etc following you, people aren't doing absolutely rediculous things, etc. Also, you can meet people here and have them tell you verifiable information about there past in F1. Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen talk alot about this.

It sounds like Fzero is simply a blank, 3 dimensional canvas. and you are trying to say that F2 is just surface paint, but if you go 'though' the canvas, you'll come to F3, which is somehow deeper, and less subjective. [/b]

True. It is also a more stable collective environment (which I assume gives it it's stability) just like F1.

that is where this model breaks down for me. i am guessing you will say something vague like, "try it for yourself", or "you'll know when you experience it", but you have given no definitive criteria which separate F2 and F3.[/b]

The only thing I can say is try the transistion technique and after a few times you will know the difference. It is not like I am charging anything for this, it only takes trying a few times to understand this. However, first try and get to the 3d blackness again and try out the cool stuff that is possible in this place. Look at the links in my first post. Good luck partner

Luke