Thread: Thoughts, Questions

Originally Posted by Expatasapien

thirdly I have come to believe (based on personal experience) that Lucid dreaming is only the first in a sort of many leveled progressive ladder of perceptual states, and was curious how many others share this view, and how much progress if any anyone here has made toward progressive levels in this system.~Ex

Okay Expat.. firstly, I share your view.. but..

I have to say that DV is not the forum for you. You want to "progress", and by that I take it to mean that you would like to go beyond the general level of LDing portrayed here on this site.. you seem to have realised that the "LDers" here (I use the term lightly) don't really do much with it, aren't actually very good at it, and generally use it to fulfil their shallow physical desires. I liked your "Nintendo Wii" analogy BTW. Spot-on.

So what the hell do you do? Where do you go? I wish I could recommend a site for you, but I can't. All I can say to you is that you should leave the Internet, and go off for a few years and read Castaneda from start to finish.

You may already have realised that so-called "LDers" are split into two basic groups: those who believe that it's "all in-the-head" and those who believe that it's "real". Of course, in-between these two are many who just aren't sure one way or the other..

You'll hear the first stance from most here, but to acquaint yourself with the other view, you should read Castaneda..

And then, MAYBE, you'll start to "progress"..

All the best to you.

Originally Posted by Expatasapien

Hello,

I have some questions and some curiosities about LD experiences I have had which seem non standard, and was hoping for some feedback on what some of this might be. I would prefer logical feedback however as I am not a very spiritual person by nature and much of that sort of thing doesn't seem to translate for me.

I would suggest that you not be too strict about sticking to 'logical feedback' or you may miss out on a lot of valuable info. Your own intuition can be your best guide here.

Firstly I have noticed a distinct sensation of intense electricity flowing through my body esp. mouth and tongue during my LDs, and was wondering if this is the norm, what that might be caused by (in neurochemical terms) if it is common etc.

Haven't experienced this first-hand but have read about it in the writings of Robert Monroe and others.

Secondly I have been able to make the transition to and from my LDs more uniform and gradual, in such a way that the result is a sort of blending of regular waking consciousness and dreaming consciousness at the edges, and am pursuing the lengthening of this "transition period" from the dream state to the waking state in the hope that I can eventualy develop a sort of augmented reality state, and I was curious if anyone else is doing this in the interest of sharing progress and method.

I have been paying attention to the transition from dreaming to waking and have experienced some interesting hybrid states, but I haven't been able to directly manipulate them as they happen - mainly just observe. That said, I have read that simply developing the awareness of these transitional states, along with dream lucidity, represents significant progress in the development of conciousness.

thirdly I have come to believe (based on personal experience) that Lucid dreaming is only the first in a sort of many leveled progressive ladder of perceptual states, and was curious how many others share this view, and how much progress if any anyone here has made toward progressive levels in this system.

thats all for now

~Ex

I very much agree with you here - beyond lucid dreaming I have been able to cultivate OBEs and have experienced shared dreams as well. I know that I have only gotten my toes wet; that there are endless realms of awareness open to the intrepid explorer.

I agree with Oneiro about Castaneda - he's got a lot of great info related to dreaming. The 'Seth' books by Jane Roberts are a gold mine for anyone with your interests. There are plenty of other authors out there that deserve consideration. I've found lots of worthwhile books on Amazon.com's 'Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought' lists.

It seems that you have pretty highly developed dreaming skills. I would like to hear more about your expreiences and any techniques that work for you.

Nemo

Originally Posted by little nemo

I would suggest that you not be too strict about sticking to 'logical feedback' or you may miss out on a lot of valuable info. Your own intuition can be your best guide here.

I have BEEN following my own intuition, I can do that completely on my own.
The only reason for me to be going on a forum at all is for something other than my own intuition. I have really taken that as far as I can take it for now.

Haven't experienced this (sensations of electric current) first-hand but have read about it in the writings of Robert Monroe and others.

Ok, not having read these source materials can you give me the short version of what this is or is believed to be?

I have been paying attention to the transition from dreaming to waking and have experienced some interesting hybrid states, but I haven't been able to directly manipulate them as they happen - mainly just observe. That said, I have read that simply developing the awareness of these transitional states, along with dream lucidity, represents significant progress in the development of conciousness.

Well of course it does, but without application in waking life it becomes a means to it's own end, which is something I would like to avoid. Have you heard of anyone extending the capacity for LDing into metaprogramming applications or something like that?

I very much agree with you here - beyond lucid dreaming I have been able to cultivate OBEs and have experienced shared dreams as well. I know that I have only gotten my toes wet; that there are endless realms of awareness open to the intrepid explorer.

I would like some sort of a definition of OBE if you would. I realise that many believe they are (actualy) leaving their body to roam around turning furniture into naked women....this is not a view I share. It is my view that all of it takes place inside the mind and that it stays there. SO, supposing I am right about this is then an OBE different from a LD in any other distinct ways. This is what I would like to know. I suspect that it is and even suspect that I may be doing nothing but OBEing. My Lds do begin with myself in my bed, where I do experience first brief SP followed by an exertion of my own will from which I do seem to get out of my own body...however I simply concluded that this was an unconscious manifestation of my awareness that I had not actualy left the bed. So if thats an OBE, then thats really all I do at this point. I have also discovered another dimension of dream beyond this. which I might talk about later on.

I agree with Oneiro about Castaneda - he's got a lot of great info related to dreaming. The 'Seth' books by Jane Roberts are a gold mine for anyone with your interests. There are plenty of other authors out there that deserve consideration. I've found lots of worthwhile books on Amazon.com's 'Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought' lists.

Ok I will do some reading then. Thank you for the advice .

It seems that you have pretty highly developed dreaming skills. I would like to hear more about your expreiences and any techniques that work for you.

So far the single most significant progress I have made was the discovery of new and totally different state which it is possible to access from within what you call the OBE state. But I am really hesitant to discuss it because I haven't got any evidence to support my claims. I would need someone else to corroborate it's existence privately before I would feel comfortable discussing it on the forum. Anyone who has extensive skill with OBE and would like to help me corroborate my theory is welcome to PM for cooperative testing.

Originally Posted by Oneiro

Okay Expat.. firstly, I share your view.. but..

I have to say that DV is not the forum for you. You want to "progress", and by that I take it to mean that you would like to go beyond the general level of LDing portrayed here on this site.. you seem to have realised that the "LDers" here (I use the term lightly) don't really do much with it, aren't actually very good at it, and generally use it to fulfil their shallow physical desires. I liked your "Nintendo Wii" analogy BTW. Spot-on.

That's too bad...I was hoping it wasn't exactly spot on.

So what the hell do you do? Where do you go? I wish I could recommend a site for you, but I can't. All I can say to you is that you should leave the Internet, and go off for a few years and read Castaneda from start to finish.

Probably not the worst idea. Still I think there might be some useful information here somewhere. I will read some however, thats good advice.

You may already have realised that so-called "LDers" are split into two basic groups: those who believe that it's "all in-the-head" and those who believe that it's "real". Of course, in-between these two are many who just aren't sure one way or the other..

I am generally in the camp of those who believe it is purely a psychological experience, however this doesn't preclude my conviction that it is a spiritual experience. Also I have different views on what spirit is than most spiritual types would agree with.

You'll hear the first stance from most here, but to acquaint yourself with the other view, you should read Castaneda..

And then, MAYBE, you'll start to "progress"..

All the best to you.

I'm already progressing a bit actually, the problem there is corroboration as I said before. I haven't got any bench-mark.

Originally Posted by Oneiro

I have to say that DV is not the forum for you. You want to "progress", and by that I take it to mean that you would like to go beyond the general level of LDing portrayed here on this site.. you seem to have realised that the "LDers" here (I use the term lightly) don't really do much with it, aren't actually very good at it, and generally use it to fulfil their shallow physical desires. I liked your "Nintendo Wii" analogy BTW. Spot-on.

I kind of agree, kind of disagree. LDing as it is on this site is the start to what is possible. Or at least one aspect of changing consciousness. I don't think you need to believe in some transcendental reality to progress further. But you do need to see dreams as more than a bit of light entiertainment.

Its not wrong to want to use LDing only for your basic desires. But, I do get annoyed when people here can't see why anyone would want anything more than that.

Expatasapian,

I will reply to your post later - I'm getting a sore wrist from too much mouse use and typing so I need to cool it for a bit. Check back in a day or so.

Nemo