Thread: On the validity of OOBEs

The following discussion was begun in the thread: [url=http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25932]Weir First Experience and began as comments about OOBEs:

Dust Motesaid:

Korittke: You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, and I guess that should include being free to disagree with another point of view, like mine. There are many people who, having heard about Lucid Dreaming, will vehemently deny that any such thing is possible. These are usually people who have never had a Lucid Dream. And there is a lot of discussion that goes on about the “truth” of OOBEs. And it is usually the people who have never had one that have “other” explanations for what has occurred. *

There is a delicate balance in maintaining your own point of view and yet allowing others to have different opinions. Is it possible the universe could be operating differently for different people, or is there only one way?[/b]

Korittke said:

It doesn't have anything to do with "point of view". It's a matter of whether or not what you say is possible or makes sense at least. What you proclaim could have happened it totally impossible. You're in sleep paralysis while you're in a dream, so obviously you will not run around, especially not consciously. All you said is non-sense and impossible, and that's not my point of view, that's a fact. And no, the universe doesn't work different for different people, that's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard in a debate. If this argument would have any validity, everyone could use it as they wish and soon enough this world would be going down the drain because of ignorant shitheads interpreting life like it was some stupid super market novel. I'm really sick of indoctrinated people like you who grew up with no scientific education and now go all pissy about their spiritual ways. There are loads of scientific researchers who had OOBEs, I did, others from this forum did, LaBerge did, Tholey did. None of them believe that OOBEs are real because it's just a plain stupid thing to assume.[/b]

Korittke, I know almost nothing about you, as you know nothing about me, but I have come to the conclusion that you posses an unshakeable sense of conviction in your beliefs. Strength of conviction is admirable as long as it doesn’t lead to planting letter bombs in my mailbox.

First, I will tell you that from the ages of 12 to 22 I was a very much of the scientific point of view. Both biology and physics were majors I persued in college.

You're in sleep paralysis while you're in a dream, so obviously you will not run around, especially not consciously[/b]

Where does sleep walking fit into this?

There are loads of scientific researchers who had OOBEs, I did, others from this forum did, LaBerge did, Tholey did. None of them believe that OOBEs are real…[/b]

You do realize that this in not a scientific proof? None of them “believe” that OOBEs are real. This is called arguing from authority. If scientists don’t believe it, then it must not be true? How many people who believe in OOBEs would I have to quote for you to believe it?

And did La Berge, Tholey, and other members of this forum who have had OOBEs, also say that: “it’s just a plain stupid thing to assume?”

What you proclaim could have happened (is) totally impossible.

All you said is non-sense and impossible, and that's not my point of view, that's a fact.

And no, the universe doesn't work different for different people,…[/b]

If you are going to defend the scientific method, don’t you think you have better use? One of the main principles of the scientific method is to remain open to all possibilities. Once you say that something is impossible you have lost the scientific way and now rely on the strength of your conviction (belief) to make your point.

. If this argument would have any validity, everyone could use it as they wish and soon enough this world would be going down the drain because of ignorant shitheads interpreting life like it was some stupid super market novel. I'm really sick of indoctrinated people like you who grew up with no scientific education and now go all pissy about their spiritual ways.
emphasis minr[/b]

“Shitheads”: Are you farmiliar with the term “ad hominem”?

“Indoctrinated”: I find that somewhat ironic, and am so tempted…

“Pissy”: I don’t feel pissy. Do I really sound pissy?

I don’t have any hidden agenda, nor am I upset with you in any way. And I would gladly engage in a discussion regarding the possibilities, or lack thereof, pertaining to OOBEs. However, I will not engage in a pissing contest.

The ball is in your court.