Thread: Waking, Sleeping, dreaming, life, death, rebirth

I had a dream last night that helped me find a good way of describing Nirvana. Nirvana is not like tofu. Nirvana is liker water. Describing Nirvana is like describing pure spring water to a thirsty man. Imagine describing water to someone who has never had any? He is thirsty and he keeps trying to satisfy his thirst with soy sauce and oilve oil! And it just makes him more and more thirsty.
You say to him "You need some water."
"Water? What's that?"
"It is a clear liquid that has no taste, but only that will take away your thirst."
"Water sounds boring. I like drinking spiced rum. I like being thirsty. It sounds so meaningless to not be thirsty. What is the point in not being thirsty?"
"Just drink some water!"
"I don't want something that is clear with no flavor and no color and etc."

Dream Yoga Yay!!

All silliness aside. That is a cool Dream Dannon Oneironaut

Originally Posted by Hijo de la Luna

Dream Yoga Yay!!

All silliness aside. That is a cool Dream Dannon Oneironaut

Well, that wasn't the dream about the thirsty guy. But I dreamed of pure water that was very sparkley and clear. But I made the connection to Nirvana. Like nirvana, water can most easily be described negatively.

J.Krishnamurti said in Freedom from the known ...since we cannot know what love is thru teacher, religion, books, romance, teachers... etc. ..we can come closer to understanding what love is by undertstanding what it is not.

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao, Lao-Tzu Tao Te Ching

;oD

What is the point of drinking water when others are thirsty?

If you don't drink water and collapse how can you help those who are thirsty? (no? lol)

I found two fun videos today!










And they both pretty much end with the same message, go to sleep happy! With the last video he gives us a technique of keeping a positive image in our minds eye for ten days. If longer, even better

I'm going to try this tonight!

I am waiting for it to load. My internet connection is acting up. But, I HAVE been feeling VERY positive while going to bed and waking up and throughout the day lately!

What is the point of drinking water when others are thirsty? I don't know. Because you need to drink also? Because then you can live to go fetch some more water? So others can drink you? I don't know. Stupid question. I don't know what my point was when I asked that.

i've been to lama wenzin tengyal's (sp?) workshop on tummo
very cool guy! fun to listen to, he has a number of youtube videos

hey this is really cool stuff! very well written! i like that you included links to read more (i did used them and learned some new things)! i've read the tenzin wangyal rinpoche (you flipped a couple of letters beachgirl) book multiple times and am considering purchasing Ancient Wisdom: Nyingma Teachings of Dream Yoga, Mediatation & Transformation by lama Gyatrul Rinpoche.

I like Tenzin Wangyal Rimpoche, a very humble monk dude. However, his books are a little mediocre. That is the literary critic in me speaking. He is very prolific, which I salute him for spreading the teachings. But, his books seem too beginner for me, they can't hold my attention. But that is just me, and I am glad that y'all are inspired by him. In fact, I learned a lot of new stuff from his books. But I guess my point is that each of his books could be just a chapter in a great book. But I guess if you can take one book and make lots of books with it you make more money! Which is always good!

If you really want to learn about Tibetan Dreaming check out Chogyal Namkhai Norbu! Especially his books "Dream Yoga and the practice of Natural Light" and "Practice of the Night" and "Practice of the Day".

I agree. Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche's books are eye opening to the begginer but lacking depth.

Wow...how did I miss this thread!!?

Dannon...would you mentor me?

Perhaps one day ... a dream yoga class?

Originally Posted by Aquanina

Wow...how did I miss this thread!!?

Dannon...would you mentor me?

I would do anything for you Aquanina,
but I don't know what mentor means.
What does that mean?

Mentor = kind of like being a teacher, or an advisor. Providing guidance!

I can't believe I've missed this thread up until now too. So fascinating! I spent hours trying to find information on exactly what is Tibetan dream yoga with not much luck. And it was all right here, all along

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

I would do anything for you Aquanina,
but I don't know what mentor means.
What does that mean?

Just means...teach me, oh wise one In my Hand of God dream I thought it was interesting that I dreamed about a book called "The Practical Guide to Dream Yoga"...I had to google it and see if it exists. It doesn't, heh, but still...this is one of those things that I have wanted to study up on but has always sort of been pushed aside for other things.

OK, here is another post:

In the Tibetan cosmology there are three kinds of dreams:

1. Ordinary dreaming. Ordinary dreams can be lucid or not. More often not. These ordinary dreams arise from personal karmic traces such as day residue and unfulfilled desires, etc.
2. Dreams of Clarity. These also can be lucid or not. These arise from trans-personal karmic traces. These can be prophetic or dreams or dreams with mythic themes or cultural religious overtones. These dreams are very memorable and usually very vivid and numinous.
3. Clear Light Dreams. There is not really anything one can say about clear light dreams except that there is no duality. There is no difference between subject and object, individual and universal, body and cosmos, etc. These are always lucid.

"If one is not aware in vision (day to day experience), it is unlikely one will be aware in behavior. If one is not aware in behavior, it is unlikely one will be aware in dream. And if one is unaware in dream, one will unlikely be aware in the Bardo after Death." -The Mother Tantra

So the goal of Dream Yoga is to increase your clarity. I find that our ordinary dream practice of using a journal, improving recall, reality testing, does well for this. But I think some supplemental practices that are required are a daily meditation practice, and looking for the dreamlike quality of day to day life and memories and hopes.



I got ahead of myself. Here are the FOUR FOUNDATIONAL PRACTICES:

1. Removing Karmic Traces:
Throughout the day practice recognition of the dream-like nature of life and the same recognition happens in dreams. Upon awakening in the morning, think "I am awake in a dream." The emphasis is on you, the dreamer rather than on the objects of your experience. Remind yourself that you are dreaming up your experiences and emotions. This exercise is applied in the moment of encountering phenomena and before a mental reaction occurs (such as mind filtering all perceptions in a trance of non-lucidity).

2. Removing Grasping and Aversion:
This is essentially the same practice as above but you specifically direct the same lucid awareness to emotionally shaded reactions that occur in response to the elements of your experience. Apply as soon as any grasping or aversion arises. "This anger is a dream." "This desire is a dream."

3. Strengthening Intention:
Y'all are familiar with this one. Review the day backwards before going to sleep. Be determined to recognize dreams of the night for what they are. Contemplate the dream-like nature of memory and hopes. Determine to be lucid, pray for lucidity.

4. Cultivate memory and Joyful Effort.
In the morning review the night and try to remember all the details of your dreams and if you were lucid or not.

Once a year it is ideal to take a week off and go on retreat and remember your whole life backwards! It is hard to do. Try to remember every detail!!! It is as hard as trying to remember a dream. Contemplate how your life is like a dream. Try to remember your birth. Try to remember being in the womb. Try to remember the bardo state before rebirth. Try to remember your past life. But don't get ahead of yourself. Start with trying to remember THIS life first!

What the Tibetans meditate on in order to increase clarity is the Tibetan syllable "A" which looks like this:



They visualize a white "A" at the third eye as they go to bed.
When the brainwaves get deeper they visualize a red "A" at the throat.
At the same time they hear the sound: :AAAAAAAAAAH"

They try to keep awareness of these symbols while they sleep.
This is how they do the WILD technique.

the sound "AH" represents space and clarity and the essence of everything and all the elements. It represents the clear light. The symbol is the "key" for this also.

When visualizing the white A at the third eye, try to visualize the rainbow around it as well.
The red one at the throat is actually clear, sitting on a red four-petaled lotus, and the "A" picks up the color of the lotus the way a crystal does when you place it on a cloth.

The Tantra Mantra "OM AH HUNG" is a good one to purify karmic traces. Each syllable is intoned slowly and powerfully. With OM visualize a laser coming from the third eye of a Buddha or Deity etc. entering your third eye and purifying it. AH a laser from throat to throat, Hum a laser from heart to heart. This is just a neat meditation. Do this over and over again. Then when you are done you can either walk into the visualization of the Buddha and merge with it or have it enter your crown chakra and merge with you so that you are the Buddha. The object of Tantra is to enlighten your mind, speech, and body. Buddha mind, Buddha speech, and Buddha body!

When you are familiar with all this remind me to go more into the three bodies/universes and which one the dream body is!!!

Here are three links to one article: page one, two, and three. Of course if you go to page one you can just click next at the bottom of the page when you get there.

http://www.tricycle.com/feature/3652-1.html?page=0,0

http://www.tricycle.com/feature/3652-1.html?page=0,1

http://www.tricycle.com/feature/3652-1.html?page=0,2

I had no idea that LaBerge set up such a crazy REM experiment, what a genius! It's also fascinating that the eyes are the only part of our body that isn't paralyzed. It's almost seems symbolic of our consciousness being the same consciousness in both waking and sleeping. Thanks for the links! I'm reading them now, though I should probably go to sleep

Oh.. Apparently I only experienced the substrate consciousness. I thought that it was pristine awareness. I guess I will know when I experience pristine awareness. But substrate consciousness IS blissful!!!
I guess I got more work to do! Back to the grind-stone! Or back to the cave!

Originally Posted by Majestic

Your subconscious beliefs are manifested into whatever you want them to be. That means if you are faithful in Christianity and believe there is a Jesus waiting for you and punishes you for being gay or masturbating, or if you believe that there is a Buddha...that will manifest.

OR if your atheist..you may just fall into an unconscious state when you die. Which would suck.

ME...I will keep my lucidity as I die, whenever that may be. No point in being unconscious when you can do whatever you want.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

That is the point. Life is a dream.

Confirming what I always knew, but couldn't wrap my head around it.

Thinking back to my childhood, my memories seem foggy and non-lucid. Heh, row row row your boat ... ... life is but a dream. That song is so much more meaningful now, even though it's just a child's song.

This thread is great. Learned so much important stuff. Is there any more information on the Death Dream Signs?

You guys can read the "Tibetan book of the Dead (Bardo Thodol)" through scribd.com, the link is:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19350831/T...d-Bardo-Thodol

Let me know if the link wont work, it should though.

Originally Posted by elucid

You guys can read the "Tibetan book of the Dead (Bardo Thodol)" through scribd.com, the link is:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19350831/T...d-Bardo-Thodol

Let me know if the link wont work, it should though.

Worked. I had to create an account to download it / read it.. but that only took like 5 seconds to create an account. Thanks!

Even though I am Theravada Buddhist, this is exactly how I understand the teachings! Just the terminology is different, but then again, they are just form and form is emptiness. I remember someone saying: "Ego is empty... of independent existence."

Anyway, I've had that bliss couple of times during metta meditation. (Metta = Loving-kindness). It was really amazing. Deep happiness and bliss without any reason and my mind was still like surface of water. Not a single thought for about 45 minutes. First the body "vanishes", then you notice what creates your thoughts, then you just watch them appear and fade away, until they seize to appear at all. There is complete stillness of mind and happiness you cannot imagine. The tricky part was, I had to let it happen. If you try to control it, try to silence your mind, it won't happen.

I've also experienced the lights. In Pali they are called Nimitta, the lights of mind. I think it was Ajahn Brahm (can be found on YouTube ), who said the nimitta is the same light people see, when they die, but you can practice for it. I asked about dreams on Buddhist forum once and they said monks do not dream at all, but they can dream about what ever they want, if they wanted, but they don't want. No attachments. Unfortunately the forum is down for maintenance at the moment.

Yep, Dannon Oneironaut knows what he talks... writes about.


With metta,
WolfTotem