Thread: 2+2=5 What??

I think it has something to do with atheists or something...

Originally Posted by Dreamhope11

So i have been looking over the forums lately and came accross the whole 2+2=5 i don't know if this thread is in the right place but can someone please explain to what this means.

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=59527

Originally Posted by slayer

I think it has something to do with atheists or something...

Wow. The presence of the atheists overshadowed any significance of what the topic was about. So slayer just said. Something with atheists.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Wow. The presence of the atheists overshadowed any significance of what the topic was about. So slayer just said. Something with atheists.

That is because my original post in that thread was a defense of atheism.

Dreamhope, I am very curious about why you didn't just click the thread and read the first post to see what it is about.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Wow. The presence of the atheists overshadowed any significance of what the topic was about. So slayer just said. Something with atheists.

So I'm wrong right?

I read it but i don't get it???

Originally Posted by Dreamhope11

I read it but i don't get it???

It is a demonstration of the fact that belief is not a choice, contrary to the claim of most Christians that it is. Atheists do not choose to be atheists. (Anybody who disagrees, please discuss it in that thread. This is not the R/S forum.)

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

belief is not a choice, contrary to the claim of most Christians

WHAT?! Is this for real?! How could anybody in their right mind...gmblrmrlbmglrmblrmlrrrrr -.-

I first read of two plus two makes five in George Orwell's 1984. However, now the exact page number or even the quote escapes me. After flipping through pages for a bit I decided to use Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_plus_two_make_five
This page should provide the origins of the phrase. Only in religious debates is this phrase used as an example of theist's infallible belief.

Originally Posted by MTL_Infernus

I first read of two plus two makes five in George Orwell's 1984. However, now the exact page number or even the quote escapes me. After flipping through pages for a bit I decided to use Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_plus_two_make_five
This page should provide the origins of the phrase. Only in religious debates is this phrase used as an example of theist's infallible belief.

My point is not about consensus proving truth, which is the point of it in 1984. My point is that belief is not a choice.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

I have made choices everyday and I am not going to deny the fact I am responsible for it. Saying your beliefs are not your choice is like saying I did a full days hard work but it was not my work. Then who's work is it? Who's choice is it if it's not yours. Ok then it's not your pay. We won't worry about getting paid because it wasn't our work. It wasn't their choice what work they did so it's not our responsibility to pay anyone for work that was not their choice so they don't own it. What an insane belief to try and live with. Nothing would happen it would be anarchy. But things do happen so choice does exist in our world. You choose to believe you have no choice. No-one makes beliefs for you. You are responsible for your mind and controlling it and thinking with it. What kind of childishness is this not taking responsibility for your own mind.

This is getting foolish. Christians are a different subject than the ability to make decisions. Here is a sign that reminds me of this kind of logic.

Without choice, you can now blame your ignorance when it wasn't your responsibility what you were. With a scapegoat for life and an excuse not to live it anything is now probable. But this isn't realistic you have to take responsibility for something. I consider this kind of thinking getting into a mental illness now. You didn't choose it something else did, but it choose that 2+2=4. Yet your not responsible for the answer right or wrong. As something else made it happen that doesn't seem to exist. So 2+2 could equal 5 and it wouldn't be your fault what is was. But this is also impossible because you think you know the truth. You don't know what created existence but it's not your responsibility what happens next. Truth can not be known as it is objectively existent but then you know this even though you are subjective in relation to it. This is really mixed up.

REALITY CHECK REALITY CHECK

Then go to that thread and do an interview, this time while honestly believing that 2 + 2 = 5. NOBODY has done it yet, including you. The only person who even claimed to be in that state of mind was that troll ChaybaChayba, who refused to answer my questions. What does that tell you? Now go there, tell me you have chosen to truly believe that 2 + 2 = 5, and then I will ask you questions. If you don't do it, I am going to think you are trolling again.

Of course choice exists. That does not mean belief is a choice. You are on major troll accusation probation.

Atheists do not choose to be atheists.

I have made choices everyday and I am not going to deny the fact I am responsible for it. Saying your beliefs are not your choice is like saying I did a full days hard work but it was not my work. Then who's work is it? Who's choice is it if it's not yours. Ok then it's not your pay. We won't worry about getting paid because it wasn't our work. It wasn't their choice what work they did so it's not our responsibility to pay anyone for work that was not their choice so they don't own it. What an insane belief to try and live with. Nothing would happen it would be anarchy. But things do happen so choice does exist in our world. You choose to believe you have no choice. No-one makes beliefs for you. You are responsible for your mind and controlling it and thinking with it. What kind of childishness is this not taking responsibility for your own mind.

belief is not a choice, contrary to the claim of most Christians

This is getting foolish. Christians are a different subject than the ability to make decisions. Here is a sign that reminds me of this kind of logic.



Without choice, you can now blame your ignorance when it wasn't your responsibility what you were. With a scapegoat for life and an excuse not to live it anything is now probable. But this isn't realistic you have to take responsibility for something. I consider this kind of thinking getting into a mental illness now. You didn't choose it something else did, but it choose that 2+2=4. Yet your not responsible for the answer right or wrong. As something else made it happen that doesn't seem to exist. So 2+2 could equal 5 and it wouldn't be your fault what is was. But this is also impossible because you think you know the truth. You don't know what created existence but it's not your responsibility what happens next. Truth can not be known as it is objectively existent but then you know this even though you are subjective in relation to it. This is really mixed up.

Originally Posted by Universal mind

Of course choice exists. That does not mean belief is a choice

Choice exists but just not in our mind. Somewhere out there in non existence no mans land.

REALITY CHECK REALITY CHECK

I am not trolling it is free thought. Free as in I had a choice

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

I am not arguing really. If I was arguing I would be doing things like calling people trolls. What I say is also perfectly valid to the response than nothingness. Sometimes I delete things if I make a mistake. I don't see the point in keeping mistakes. I am not evasive I do more than my fair share of clarifying. I actually clarify too much. That is why you seem to get so upset and call me troll. I have never intended to insult anyone and if you feel insulted you should atleast mention it so I can make it right with you. Instead you seem to be more interested in making me a troll than anything else.

And you think I am insulting. Yet this is far more insulting than anything I have ever said about anyone.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Here is a sign that reminds me of this kind of logic.



Without choice, you can now blame your ignorance when it wasn't your responsibility what you were. With a scapegoat for life and an excuse not to live it anything is now probable. But this isn't realistic you have to take responsibility for something. I consider this kind of thinking getting into a mental illness now.

It's funny how you know how to use the edit button when you repost, yet you delete an entire post sometimes when I respond to you without quoting you. But I think it's AWESOME!

OKay everyone just shut up. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Tarsier

OKay everyone just shut up. Thanks.

Get out of the thread. Thanks.

We are funny. Thanks.