Thread: Gays

Statements towards my stupidity--heck, yeah, I even admitted to being a little moronic in my last post. I suppose I just have a hard time expressing my ideas to other people. O well... (That and a rather insufficient vocabulary...)

I'm think I'm done with this thread.. It's old..

meh, see ya later

Originally posted by evangel
As for the above questions: He HAS shown himself (in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ) God DOES answer prayer (of those who seek him in truth, humility, and in faith). And those who seek \"signs\" Jesus openly condemns. People that need miracles and signs do not put their faith in God... they put their faith in miracles and signs.

It is my opinion that this statement makes little sense. I fear I am at a lack of comprehension. Else, eh, I don't know what to say! ha.. that happens a lot with me. Hm.. Yeah, I'm done.

Edit: spelling.. (vacabulary.. yeah..)

Howetzer: Shouldn't the questions regarding gays be in a new thread or something?

Originally posted by Lucius

...I still think the (good) christians will be rewarded for their goodness, just like any other religious person that generates positive energy.

I mean really, is the other 60-80% of the population really doing somethign wrong then when it comes to religion? (this is a question to all people who do think all other religions are false/wrong)

That's where I see Christianity as different from other religions. I believe(as a Christian) that there is NOTHING I can do to earn merit (generate positive energy) in the eyes of God. Even my best most "pure" deeds are stained and blotted by my sin. It is only by the merit and sacrifice of Christ that one gains entrance into heaven. The only true good deeds then come afterwards as a natural outpouring of the Spirit of God that lives within someone -not as some sort of good/bad merit system. There is none who can do good apart from God because our selfishness (sin) is so deeply ingrained in our nature... That's the whole reasoning behind the need for Christ's sacrifice (which even many Christians have a hard time understanding) -that in HIS perfection, by HIS perfect blood, the sin of those who would believe is covered in his mercy and love... as fer the 60-80%... Actually, it would be more accurate to say 100% are doing something wrong and WE ALL need to ask for mercy and forgiveness... I don't like pointing fingers because I know I'm no better than anyone else, whether a pagan, Muslim, Christian, or otherwise. Religion can do nothing for you apart from faith in Christ (in other words I think a PERSONAL relationship with and knowledge of God is much more important to salvation than claiming affiliation to any church or religion). This probably does not answer your question exactly, but I still encourage anyone and all to seek God in brokenness who turns his ear to those who are lowly in spirit!

The way I see humans are sinful in a sense aswell, but thats because we are not perfect, and we cannot be perfected, nobody can be perfect I think, not even Jezus Christ(though I dont see him as the son of God, as God is not a person)

Thats why we must reincarnate multiple times and learn from our sinful mistakes. For example, if you were a thief in your previous life then you shall learn that thiefery does not pay, and money is not all that matters.
And with every one of those lessons you come closer to becoming ready for semi enlightment(release of samara, the eternal circle of reincarnation in THIS plane). But even then the energy of which your soul is made of(our souls, and everything that exist is chi/life force) is not perfect, as it cannot be perfected as there are always new things to learn.

Until the day you have learned everything on all planes, which is true enlightment, when you remerge with the core, which could also be called God, but the truth is God is everything around us, and it is within us. It is the cosmos. At least thats my point of view.

And to come back to the question of some many % of people doing something wrong, then I ask of you, are only christians saved by Christ in your eyes Evangel? What about the other religions?

-----------------------------
About the gay thing,

If any gay thinks he was born with some sort of flaw then he being stupid.
Saying somebody naturally fits together is simply looking at ones apearence. But when it comes to love apearence should not matter, not race, skin color, sex and so on and so forth. And its not like the entire population is gay so the human wil not get extinct lol, and there are alot of humans already anyway. Gay,straight whatever, we are all souls, we are all energy. In the end its our energies that make love to eachother, almost fusing for a moment when you get close, not our bodies. At least when its true love, but I hate sex without love so.

Actually I was responding to Luscious earlier comment on gay bashing by Christians. But you are correct Evangel, it belongs in another thread if at all. It takes people away from the topic.

Well Im going to give a brief opinion on that question. I don't think it has anything to do with it being natural, I just believe it has a lot to do with one or two issues here. 1. Being the enviorment that they may have been raised in, and number 2. the way the parents could have brought him/her up. Sometimes if he or she is the only opposite sex among other siblings then that may also be a reason. But im not too sure..

Guys, with your approval, I'll split this. Or someone can start a new thread. This one is beginning to drift....

Go for it, Seeker.

I've been lurking on this thread for a while now, reluctant to really post anything because whatever I have to say regarding religion won't matter to any of you. I would have better luck trying to have an open conversation with this empty soda bottle on my desk. And, quite frankly, I don't really care. All the fighting makes me tired. But, I do feel the need to step in on the gay issue because it's something I get very sensitive about.

Who is anyone to say that being gay is "wrong"? And why does everyone assume that it's a choice? It's not like someone wakes up in the morning and goes "oh, I think I'll be gay today." Nor is it a product of evironment or how a parent/set of parents brought their child up. I'm sorry, but that's just silly. No outside circumstances determine whether one will grow up to be gay or not. It's something that occurs naturally and there is nothing wrong with it. I still fail to see what the big issue is. Who is it hurting if two men or two women are in love and happy? How does their happiness negatively affect you? The answer is: it doesn't. So shut up and get on with life.

Everyone needs to learn how to co-exist with everyone else or get the hell off the earth. We are all human. We are all different. And that's what makes each one of us special and beautiful. Why can't anyone see that?

while i understand that christians think that being gay is a sin...geuss what, so is lieing and so is hating somebody else, and so is adultry etc. but they dont try to get law enforcement to crack down on adulterous people, only on keeping gay marriages illegal...it makes no sense...


btw, i do want to point out i never said anything about my beliefs here, i intend to keep my personal views out of this, as they are unimportant

Well I suppose the discussion about gays should be in a new topic if people are still interested..so we can get on with the discussion were it left of. Sorry for asking and making the discussion off-topic I won't happen again, sir

Maybe somebody should make up a question about a religious subject, I dont mind religious conversation at all, as long as people are not offended and/or bashed its nice.

So maybe somebody could pop a question or somethign? Any ideas, or perhaps the current stuff is enough to build on

(oh and I do agree with LS, I might be gay myself but that has not much to do with it, an open mind is simply important)

I agree whole heartedly with Lost Soul. What does it matter?

It is probably a combination of things. Possibly a genetic predisposition along with upbringing? Who Knows?

Why an I hetero and not gay myself? Lord knows I've got enough issues of my own.

I have the honor of knowing a few gay and lesbian friends, even some Bi and transgenders. Some are aquaintances, some are family, some like my buddy Lucius are very close. ^_^

A persons orientation is just another aspect of that person, like having sexy red hair * grins in the direction of LS =) *. You have to accept a person for who they are, a spirit, or soul, inhabiting a body in the physical realm.

I am pretty sure that spirits are sexless. Perhaps a spirit chooses which sex and orientation it wants to incarnate?

Well, I ramble, I'll finish with this thought.
Intolerant people SUCK!

I think when Howetzer mentioned natural etc, he was talking about the whole reproduction thing.

i don't have a problem with anything like that - who the hell am i to judge and have a narrow minded opionion on what other people do?? That would make me a self-important tosser.

As regards to this Christianity business and sinning etc etc, I will have to say that I believe in Karma. Laws of physics, ying/yang say that natures balances itself out - can you see where I'm coming from. Like I've said before people get what they deserve without human intervention and we are taught the lessons we need, even if we don't think we deserve them.

Go with the flow.

That is were I was coming from thank you Maystar.

http://www.malepregnancy.com/



i don't believe that gays think they have a predisposition to anyone. -- genes are natural. just because the parts don't fit, doesn't make it wrong or illegitimate in anyway. i have gay friends and, to my knowledge, they don't consider themselves in any way to have "somthing wrong" with them, rather they just have a different mindset.

I don't believe homosexuality is in some peoples genes; it's a lifestyle, an action, a choice.

no one would make the choice to be ridiculed, taunted, discriminated, or just plain treated like shit by their peers! -- sorry this is just a raw topic.

what's your point? if your favourite drink is coke and your peers all like pepsi and think coke is stupid, would you still drink it? of course. what if they found out you practice lucid dreaming and they think you're a freak and make fun of you, are you going to quit? no.

I will have to agree with adidas. There is a big difference between "You loser, you drink coke" and "Sorry the position has been filled".

I was using that as an example. yes, homosexuality is a much more serious matter than soft drinks, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a matter of choice and not some 'genetic disorder'.

Originally posted by Paperdoll EP
I was using that as an example. yes, homosexuality is a much more serious matter than soft drinks, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a matter of choice and not some 'genetic disorder'.

I dont think that someone whos gay chooses to be attracted to someone else of the same sex just as a straight person doesnt pick who their attracted to. Its just who they r and it may be genetic/environmental but thats not the point ppl r attracted 2 whoever they are i dont think its a matter of choice.

I was watching a show the other day explaining that there is something "wrong genetically" (for lack of better words, I don't mean to offend) in homosexuals. They were testing the levels of I don't know what in the brain. What it proved was that men have a higher level of whatever it was than women. (Probably testosterone ) Then they did they same test on gays and lesbians. The results were that gays had a lower level that resembled a womens level, and lesbians had a higher level that resembled mens. It was related to XY or XX chromosomes. I am no scientist so I can't prove it's untrue, but it would make sense.
What I do believe is that if it were simply a choice there would be less homosexuals. Like adidas says, no one would like to be ridiculed ect. for a choice. For example... me. I used to have long hair, would always dress in black clothes ect. a "freak". Believe me, I still would... unfortunately that doesn't work in society. I have plans to become a pediatrician, if part of it was to dress nicely and cut my hair so be it. I am not gonna risk it for wearing an IronMaiden shirt.

I'm sorry...I shouldn't have said anything. I'm still a little close-minded...sometimes...but I used to be worse. I hope I didn't offend anyone. just know that I'm not a gay basher or anything. I don't hate gays...

??? At no point did you come across as either close minded or a gay basher...

oh...ok good.

Originally posted by Paperdoll EP
I'm sorry...I shouldn't have said anything. I'm still a little close-minded...sometimes...but I used to be worse. I hope I didn't offend anyone. just know that I'm not a gay basher or anything. I don't hate gays...

You're not closed minded. In fact you are very open minded. Let me ask you a question, this is not an attack, just a little something to stimulate thought and discussion.

Here goes:
If it is a choice, and not something you are compelled to do. Could you, Paperdoll choose to be with another woman? Could you chose not to be hetero?

I know I could not choose. I am compelled to be attracted to women. Although I can think about it in an intellectual sense and have discussed it with one of my gay friends, I do not think that I could do it. The attraction is just not there. It's not a matter of love, I love my male friends dearly and wouldn't hesitate to give them a big hug. There is just no physical compulsion to get sexual.


Hope I am making sense at some level..