Thread: Pondering why existence exists.

I say the universe was created through time travel.

Either A: Something from this universe somehow creates it through a temporal loop (black hole going back in time or something) or B: Two universes create each other because they have no need for the same timeline, and thus do not violate casuality.

We don't need any starting point.

Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

Sometimes I wonder why existence exists. I find myself wondering how our universe was created. Where did all the matter come from? What created whatever created our universe? You could literally ask the what created the thing that created question infinite times.

I suppose if you went back far enough in time, something had to be created from absolute nothingness. I don't buy the whole, it always existed thing. Is anyone else on the same page?

i take it what we were talking about reminded you of this.

i find it very hard to imagine that at one time there was complete nothingness. i just cant accept it, my brain will explode if i think of nothingness too much. its the same as when i think of what it would be like to not exsist, if i were to die, and nothing happens when you die, i find it too hard to process in my mind, not thinking.

Originally Posted by slash112

i take it what we were talking about reminded you of this.

i find it very hard to imagine that at one time there was complete nothingness. i just cant accept it, my brain will explode if i think of nothingness too much. its the same as when i think of what it would be like to not exsist, if i were to die, and nothing happens when you die, i find it too hard to process in my mind, not thinking.

I don't find it hard to imagine what it's like to not exist. You didn't exist before you were born. You won't exist after you die. Just because you lived doesn't change the definition of non-existing. Death isn't a mystery. You were dead before you were born. Do you remember being inconvenienced by it? I don't.

I can't seem to buy the idea that the stuff that everything anywhere is made of has existed forever. It doesn't seem logical to me. It has to be able to be explained somehow. The idea that everything always existed for an infinite amount of time - something that never started and will never stop - sounds like the same kind of bullshit religion is made of. That's just one fellows opinion.

Originally Posted by lseadragon

I say the universe was created through time travel.

Either A: Something from this universe somehow creates it through a temporal loop (black hole going back in time or something) or B: Two universes create each other because they have no need for the same timeline, and thus do not violate casuality.

We don't need any starting point.

But ideadragon, that still assumes something existed before the creation of the universe. In your example: either a blackhole or 2 universes. Did those ever not exist? Where did they come from? Am I missing a key point in your explanation? If I am, sorry.

It's very perplexing.

I think the problem lies in our understanding of time and causality; we have evolved in a universe with only one timeline, but I think in reality there may be a few more, and just like extra spacial dimensions, it's pretty much impossible to comprehend.

Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

The idea that everything always existed for an infinite amount of time - something that never started and will never stop - sounds like the same kind of bullshit religion is made of.

Part of a problem with this is that by your own definition time will not last forever either. If something is outside time, it can feasibly exist forever because there is nothing to measure it by.

I was thinking maybe the matter that exists in our 3-dimensional universe/multiverse somehow leaked through another dimension. Maybe that sounds too sci-fi but I'm not willing to eliminate the possibility of it.

Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

But ideadragon, that still assumes something existed before the creation of the universe. In your example: either a blackhole or 2 universes. Did those ever not exist? Where did they come from? Am I missing a key point in your explanation? If I am, sorry.

You are missing the point. Those universes created themselves, which negates the need for a starting point. They can create themselves because they already created themselves. While it may sound strange, if they are different universes they're not violating causality because it is a function of one universe or the other. So they can do this.

EDIT: And that's the best misspelling of my username ever.

Originally Posted by lseadragon

Part of a problem with this is that by your own definition time will not last forever either. If something is outside time, it can feasibly exist forever because there is nothing to measure it by.

Maybe the answer does lie within the perceivable flow of time. But all the matter we know of is bound by time. Where space exists time must exist am I correct in saying this? And for something to exist it needs space to occupy. Maybe I'm being illogical.

Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

Maybe the answer does lie within the perceivable flow of time. But all the matter we know of is bound by time.

There's your problem.

Imagine for a minute, a universe without time or space. All things happen at once, and they are non-corporeal, like thoughts or minds. These things do not require time or space; but they exist in their own way, in the everlasting moment.

Where space exists time must exist am I correct in saying this? And for something to exist it needs space to occupy. Maybe I'm being illogical.

No, it does not. Imagine our non-corporeal universe again, but this time with a timestream. The thoughts have a past and a future, but they don't need any space.

Originally Posted by lseadragon

There's your problem.

Imagine for a minute, a universe without time or space. All things happen at once, and they are non-corporeal, like thoughts or minds. These things do not require time or space; but they exist in their own way, in the everlasting moment.



No, it does not. Imagine our non-corporeal universe again, but this time with a timestream. The thoughts have a past and a future, but they don't need any space.

I like the non-corporeal idea. It cleared up your ideas for me - thanks! But I'm still wondering how something immaterial can create a material universe.

Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

I like the non-corporeal idea. It cleared up your ideas for me - thanks! But I'm still wondering how something immaterial can create a material universe.

How is it?

It's a material universe creating another material universe. The second universe then creates the first one. Where does immateriality come into it?

Originally Posted by lseadragon

How is it?

It's a material universe creating another material universe. The second universe then creates the first one. Where does immateriality come into it?

I must have misinterpreted the meaning of non-corporeal. Mah b. I think I understand now. Interesting theory, I like it.

Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

I must have misinterpreted the meaning of non-corporeal. Mah b. I think I understand now. Interesting theory, I like it.

I apologise; the non-corporeal thing was a reply to what you were saying about how for something to exist it needs space. I was merely arguing against that; it had nothing to do with my main theory.

Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

Sometimes I wonder why existence exists. I find myself wondering how our universe was created. Where did all the matter come from? What created whatever created our universe? You could literally ask the what created the thing that created question infinite times.

I suppose if you went back far enough in time, something had to be created from absolute nothingness. I don't buy the whole, it always existed thing. Is anyone else on the same page?

Why does everybody bother themselves with such questions? Instead of wondering why you are alive why not just live life? Maybe we will know after death, if there is an afterlife. Just stop questioning everything around you and enjoy life huh?

Originally Posted by Fableflame

Why does everybody bother themselves with such questions? Instead of wondering why you are alive why not just live life? Maybe we will know after death, if there is an afterlife. Just stop questioning everything around you and enjoy life huh?

Whoa whoa. I don't understand where your logic comes from. For one, I am living life. Humans are naturally curious about their environment and in turn naturally curious where they came from. Who said I wasn't enjoying life? Just because I question where everything came from all the sudden I'm not enjoying life?

Why wouldn't I bother to question something like that? Seems like a pretty intelligent question to me. What are you thinking about? The next time fucking Big Brother is on television? Wow now theres someone that living life to the fullest! Keep enjoying life bud I'll just keep not enjoying it and asking intelligent questions oO.

"Stop questioning everything" - Man the owners of this planet must love people like you. You make a good sheep my good sir.

Originally Posted by SpecialInterests

Sometimes I wonder why existence exists. I find myself wondering how our universe was created. Where did all the matter come from? What created whatever created our universe? You could literally ask the what created the thing that created question infinite times.

I suppose if you went back far enough in time, something had to be created from absolute nothingness. I don't buy the whole, it always existed thing. Is anyone else on the same page?

This question is essentially a non-starter.

IMO the universe simply categorically is not the kind of thing that has or can have a point, reason, cause, or else. It is the ultimate.

I don't think "nothing" can be. I think all that exists is stuff. there could never possibly be a time without stuff/matter/existence/energy/vibration whatever you call it.

A void simply cant exist

because stuff is all and everything.

Saying the universe has a point would be like saying it has a monocle and cane. Its a categorical error.

The human mind can't really "get" the concept of something just being, because in our small corner of existence things have a causal nature, but just because this causality and time applies in the universe; the universe as a whole itself isn't necessarily subject to it.

Universe means all that there is. The concept we gotta get is that of "nothing" (it doesnt exist, by definition)




Oh; but it makes me cry these tears. Every night.

dirt.

Do you think there is a naturalistic/mathematical explanation though?

But yes, I doubt there is any human quality to it.

Originally Posted by Omicron

This question is essentially a non-starter.

IMO the universe simply categorically is not the kind of thing that has or can have a point, reason, cause, or else. It is the ultimate.

I don't think "nothing" can be. I think all that exists is stuff. there could never possibly be a time without stuff/matter/existence/energy/vibration whatever you call it.

A void simply cant exist

because stuff is all and everything.

Saying the universe has a point would be like saying it has a monocle and cane. Its a categorical error.

I kind of agree...
But for something to have created our universe there would had to have been something already to create it...
So how did the Creator, whatever that creator happens to be, get created?
And what created the Creator's Creator?
The only logical explanation in my mind is that everything has always been here, but that too is illogical because something cant come from nothing.

Originally Posted by Fableflame

I kind of agree...
But for something to have created our universe there would had to have been something already to create it...
So how did the Creator, whatever that creator happens to be, get created?
And what created the Creator's Creator?
The only logical explanation in my mind is that everything has always been here, but that too is illogical because something cant come from nothing.

I didn't mention a creator?


In fact I said the exact opposite of everything you seem to think I said.

Originally Posted by Xei

Do you think there is a naturalistic/mathematical explanation though?

But yes, I doubt there is any human quality to it.

No. Again; as fucking brain killing this is; I don't think its the kind of thing that "an explanation" can apply to

Old Bertrand Russel said "The universe is the ultimate brute fact"

I'm inclined to agree.

I know it sounds like a total copout. But it just is. As hard as that is for us.

Originally Posted by Omicron

I didn't mention a creator?


In fact I said the exact opposite of everything you seem to think I said.

i meant the part about the universe being ultimate..always being there,
I like that theory but i dont.

The thought of something being created out of absolutely nothing just doesn't sound feasible. I'm not ruling it out - but I think the answer lies within the nature of time. The way humans perceive time may drive us to completely biased points of view. Even completely biased questions.

Well, I'm inclined to think there is a logical reason for the universe existing... simply because I think it's contradictory for anything that is not a consequence of logic to occur; that is to say that everything is a consequence of logic, otherwise it could not have happened.